User talk:Yosemiter/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Changing redirects

Just something you might not be aware of, generally you don't want to change redirects to linking directly to an article, you should leave them as they stand. The reason for this is that should the page have to move again in the future someone will have to once again disambiguate all the articles back out. Obviously doing it on the templates are fine. But I wanted to catch you before you went through all the articles if that is what you were intending to do. See WP:NOTBROKEN for reference. Didn't want you to totally waste your time. -DJSasso (talk) 16:53, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Manitoba Moose

An article that you have been involved in editing, Manitoba Moose , has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Tom Danson (talk) 16:43, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

St. John's IceCaps

Am I supposed to create a new article for the new St.John's franchise?--Debdeb18 (talk) 20:16, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

San Diego Gulls

Thank you for your attention to detail in regard to this page. I was not including the San Diego Sabers, as they are not professional. I was in fact differentiating between the ECHL and WCHL Gulls. I understand that they are the same team and franchise, but for consistency purposes, they should be recognized as a separate iteration. The four professional Gulls teams are the 1996-74 Gulls (WHL), the 1990-95 Gulls (IHL), the 1995-03 Gulls (WCHL) and the 2003-06 Gulls (ECHL). The AHL Gulls will be the fifth iteration of professional hockey teams in San Diego using the Gulls name. The team will also be the seventh professional hockey team to play at the Valley View Casino Center. The five named above with the addition of the 1974-77 San Diego Mariners (WHA) and the 1977-79 San Diego Hawks/Mariners (PHL). Hope this helps clarify my changes. We are simply trying to be as detailed as possible.--Loconnorgulls (talk) 11:32, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

High time ...

		The Hockey Barnstar
		For your devoted work on minor league hockey articles. Ravenswing 20:50, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Sporting Kansas City MLS Team

I know other pages are listing based on where the team plays, but Kansas City is unique in that it has overflowed over a state line into Kansas. So it's not that far fetched to understand how a Missouri team's stadium could be built on the other side of the line. Listing KS in their location is misleading and inaccurate. Kansas has no major cities and no major sports teams. Sporting KC was founded by Lamar Hunt, a Missourian who also founded the KC Chiefs in Missouri. Sporting KC was founded in Missouri, still operates out of Missouri and still practices and has all of their training facilities in Missouri. Even the team itself does not claim to be in Kansas. Never has it been established that a team is from where it plays it's games. So I don't think people would mind too much if an exception was made for this very unique situation and have Sporting KC listed in the state where it is from and originated.Jkeiltaylor (talk) 17:53, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

@Jkeiltaylor: I understand where you are coming from, but these lists are always by where a team plays their home games. Many professional teams have their HQ in a different city or address than where they play. Many teams are also "founded" in a completely different city than where they now play, it is called relocation. Your argument that they were founded in Missouri by Missourian are quite false as Hunt actually founded the Kansas City Chiefs as the Dallas Texans in Dallas (where he lived much of his life) and only moved the team to KC after the Cowboys basically ran them out. The team claims to be from Kansas City, which last time I looked, refers to the KC metro area which includes Kansas City, Kansas. And while I am not from MO, is it really such an insult to list the team from the state where they can be found on game night? Yosemiter (talk) 17:55, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

@Yosemiter: I'm definitely not interested in changing this for all the sports teams. Only Sporting because it is a unique situation. And you brought up a very, very important concept. You said it's called relocation but SPORTING KC NEVER RELOCATED!! THAT is the point of all of this. I'm trying to correct a common misconception about the team. Everyone thinks they moved to Kansas and having that listed in these articles is only perpetuating that myth. They still do and have always operated out of Missouri from day one. This has never changed. Simply building their home venue over the border does not move them to Kansas. They are still in Missouri!Jkeiltaylor (talk) 18:17, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

@Jkeiltaylor: And the NY Islanders still operate out of Uniondale, NY but your not going to see anyone let you change it to that on their listing. No one who reads those tables cares about where the mail goes, only where they can find the game. In this case, that happens to be just on the other side of a border which for some reason you take offense to. Yosemiter (talk) 18:23, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Redirects

Hey just a quick note. I saw you changing alot of ECHL links so I thought I would point you to WP:NOTBROKEN. Some of them are obviously correct fixes, ie the ones that visibly say East Coast Hockey League that are referring to a time after 2003. But I noticed you removed alot of piped links, those should not be removed as they point to the correct place, and while an outside chance there is a chance that the league could go back to that name so it saves people doing the same thing again in the future. Anyway it isn't a biggy, but just wanted to save you from wasting your time if you were going to go through more articles doing that. -DJSasso (talk) 13:56, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

@Djsasso: - I understand, I was mostly just targeting ones referring to the present (like the links in templates, affiliations, old season pages that some might base a future season from, and current players. then just kind of went too far) It was motivated by an occasional editor changing things to East Coast repeatedly some time ago and his refusal to acknowledge that it was simply just ECHL currently (same reason I moved Norfolk Admirals and Manchester Monarchs to Norfolk Admirals (AHL) and Manchester Monarchs (AHL)). I am done with that separation but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the league changed its name back in a few years when a few more AHL possibly move out west and displaced the remaining ECHL teams. Yosemiter (talk) 18:37, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

There was a bug that didn't show the Rams for me unless it had the attendance chart filled out

Sorry Corgame3 (talk) 02:17, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

@Corgame3: Interesting, I didn't know about that. How about now? Yosemiter (talk) 02:42, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

It's good now

User talk:2602:252:D41:20B0:9C1F:A004:A0B2:6920

I actually took a peek at this IP's contribution history, and it's ALL deletions of FHL/UHL related material, over the course of the month and going back into last year. I slapped a level 4 warning on his talk page, and plan on hauling him to AIV on the next vandalism. Ravenswing 12:02, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Evansville Icemen

I understand and, in hindsight, agree with most of your points, however, the Icemen were evicted from Ford Center. So even if they don't actually move, there's no going back to Ford Center. Thanks. (Sparkyb10123 (talk) 02:39, 20 March 2016 (UTC))

@Sparkyb10123: They weren't actually evicted, that would imply that they broke a contract or missed payments (see Dayton Demolition for a recent actual hockey team eviction). The owner, Ron Geary, and the owners of the arena, the City of Evansville, simply did not come to terms on a new contract. Geary threatened he would move the team to Owensboro as leverage and the City called his bluff and arranged for a SPHL team. And yes, assuming the IceMen don't make some miraculous season finish and make the playoffs, on April 10 the IceMen will no longer be "present." Yosemiter (talk) 03:09, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

@Yosemiter: Oh, okay, I guess I misunderstood. Thanks for letting me know. (Sparkyb10123 (talk) 15:30, 20 March 2016 (UTC))

Evansville's abbreviation is "EVV"?

Everywhere I've looked it's "EVL"...how'd you get "EVV"? Tom Danson (talk) 21:51, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tom Danson: Where are you seeing EVL? I don't have an official source for EVV (so I won't fight if you change it back even though EVL makes it look like EVIL) because I usually take them off the official game reports and stat lines for official abbreviations, but the City of Evansville often use EVV in their such as this twitter handle and this one. Although it appears that this team is actually using "EVN" like the former IceMen used as seen here, so I might have been wrong anyways. (also one of the reasons EVV might be used on some local identifiers could be based on the local IATA airport code.) Yosemiter (talk) 22:05, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Lane Bauer

Why is Lane Bauer of the Edmonton Oil Kings not eligible for the draft if he is 19? ShaedonShergill (talk) 05:21, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

@ShaedonShergill: See NHL Entry Draft#Eligible players and it shows that he will be 20 before December 31, 2016. Also, he was eligible in 2014 and 2015 and he wasn't drafted. While I am not really sure why you are asking, no, he is nowhere close to being a notable enough player to make a page for. Just looking for references about him lead to only WP:ROUTINE coverage in the local section about the Oil Kings. Yosemiter (talk) 12:41, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Bakersfield Jam

Hey Yosemiter. I've been wanting to go through for a while now and clean up the NBA Development League. It's a mess right now and big problem is the double up of team articles. There was no reason for a new article to be created for Northern Arizona Suns, the Bakersfield Jam article should have been simply moved to reflect a new team name. The Northern Arizona Suns are not a completely new franchise, they are the Bakersfield Jam reincarnated. I'm just trying to streamline the D-League. You don't see articles for the Minneapolis Lakers or the Charlotte Bobcats (for example) because there's no need. They are past names of active teams. There are however some special cases, like with the Seattle SuperSonics. But should the Bakersfield Jam be a special case? I personally don't think so. We can just move the (minimal) info the Northern Arizona Suns, per the norm. DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:40, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@DaHuzyBru: I am aware and I found that we hockey folks just do things differently, see my longer explanation at User talk:Intruder007#Salt Lake City Stars. And no I don't think the Jam are a special case (unless they come back as a franchise with the same name). Yosemiter (talk) 12:44, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I just read your post. Look, I'm always open for discussion and you see I stopped my "redirect project" seeing as two fellow editors somewhat disagreed with me. I appreciate your concerns and I understand where you're coming from regarding hockey. Again, I'm just trying to streamline the D-League in a way which somewhat reflects the NBA methods. I'll try to get others involved perhaps at NBA project and Basketball project. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:49, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@DaHuzyBru: Don't mind me, I will let your project do as it wishes as there are pros and cons to both methods. I only mentioned it 'cause I created the NAZ Suns article apparently in error to the bball project standards. I will point out I reverted myself on the redirect. Yosemiter (talk) 13:03, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Tucson

It might be easy to see if you know where to look in the article (a tiny space in the bar-lines lower in the page, and a note that Springfield are stopping in 2016 and Tucson are starting in 2016 [which doesn't automatically mean they're the same franchise]), but a clear note in the list of teams is much easier to find, and is clear for a non-expert to understand (which is what Wikipedia is meant to be about).194.28.124.54 (talk) 04:27, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

@194.28.124.54: A non-expert won't be looking at the table to see where they are relocating, they will be looking at Springfield Falcons anyways. As I said, the Falcons are not special and two dozen franchises have relocated. So in less than one month they will be very much one of many franchises that are listed identically. And yes, the Tucson AHL team is most definitely the same franchise as the Falcons. You must be misinformed on the difference between a team and franchise. A franchise is a legal license or right to play in a league and are transferable. A team is the actual organization that is made up of management and players that take the ice in a given season. A good example to look at is the St. John's IceCaps which is one team (same management and some players), but two franchises (True North owned the first franchise and then used its franchise license to recreate the Moose and the second franchise is owned by the Canadiens). I think I misread your line about the "where to look," but the wording still stands as correct. In the timeline, it shows Springfield Falcons->Tucson. In the teams of past and present, it says Springfield becomes Tucson. And then right in the lead of the Springfield Falcons page, it states the franchise was purchased by the Coyotes and moved to Tucson as well as being discussed in detail in the history section and listed in the "Franchise History." In short, a list/table of Current teams does not need to go into great detail about any single team, especially past and future. Yosemiter (talk) 20:16, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

No, a non-expert will see the "Teams: Current" first because it's the first list on the article (it's before the timeline) so it makes more sense for a note to be there, rather than expecting someone to click on a (tiny) link in the timeline that is below it, especially if they're looking on the mobile site.

That said, the change you've made since at least makes it clearer in the first instance people will come to, so I haven't reverted. 194.28.124.54 (talk) 23:52, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

@194.28.124.54: I stand by my original statement; non-experts looking for information on the Springfield Falcons, the Tucson team, or anything about the transactions that led up to the move are not likely to be looking at the Current teams list on a page about the league (unless said non-expert also has poor reading comprehension). I am not trying to be an asshole about it, but in the grand scheme of the AHL and its teams, a single (or double) relocation is barely notable. In fact until recently, all relocated teams just had an asterisk next to its founding date because it was only meant to indicate that it was not founded as the team listed as current. Also, as shown in the List of AHL seasons, since 1990–91, there has been only one offseason without a league member change. It has probably gotten to the point where it is more notable to not have relocated. Essentially by allowing a footnote singling out a relocation, it opens up a precedence to do so for each relocated franchise as well. And then we end up with a footnote section as long as the table itself. It will end up looking like the footnotes section in the NBA Development League which, in my opinion, looks terrible. Not mention on that page, they over-list relocations FOUR times in various ways that can all same thing. Yosemiter (talk) 01:27, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Agreed: aside from the 21st century additions (and even those are down to Bridgeport, Chicago, Grand Rapids and Milwaukee), Hershey and Rochester are the only franchises in the league never to have relocated. Beyond that, I've got a basic principle -- if you want to find out more, read the bloody articles. Ravenswing 09:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Danbury Ice Arena

While I'm at it -- and why I sauntered over to your page in the first place -- I just checked on the arena, since that IP keeps changing the numbers. Neither the rink's nor the Titans' websites mention the capacity at all, unusual on the part of the rink's site. Even at that, apparently the capacity's been increased a couple of times: news reports when the Trashers joined the UHL had the capacity at 1000, and it was 2300 when the Whalers and the FHL started. The things you do at 5 AM. Ravenswing 09:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

@Ravenswing: I am inclined to just change it to "about 3,000" on the Ice Arena page and remove the capacities altogether on the FHL page (maybe replaced with the most recent average attendance). I originally did probably the same search as you a few months back and I remember finding a "3,000 seat arena" or something like it once, but never a specific number since the 2300. Every other article I found cites the wikipedia page. Yosemiter (talk) 14:22, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. Ravenswing 14:27, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

List of Lego themes

Hello Yosemiter, why have canceled my changes ? Tyseria (talk) 16:03, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

@Tyseria: I stated in the first revert but I will repeat here. Redlinks are fine, adding French Redlinks to the English Wikipedia is not. They were simply non-productive edits. If you want to make articles for the redlinks, do so on the English one. Yosemiter (talk) 16:10, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

As states the French page of this template: « This allows readers to have information on the subject despite the absence of paper in French, without masking the fact that this article does not exist, which is essential to incentivize the creation of the article. secondly , the link to an equivalent in another language allows the creator of the article to be inspired ( including its sources and its bibliography ) , and even the so traduire.C'est an additional incentive to create the article, insofar as it shows where to find the material for the faire.La consideration is that we will be limited to link to articles sourced well into other languages ​​, on the other hand this does not of course be interpreted as a requirement to use Article in the other language to create new article in french. » (sory for my translation) Tyseria (talk) 16:21, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

@Tyseria: I guess it is fine, but we had similar articles on some of those subjects and they were deleted due to notability issues. It doesn't seem the French ones are any better. Re-add your links if you want, but some one else may just remove them later anyways. Yosemiter (talk) 16:39, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

OK. It is a mistake on my part, I wanted to put links to fr:Lego Classic, fr:Lego Juniors, fr:Lego Ghostbusters and fr:Lego The Simpsons. Cordialy, Tyseria (talk) 07:00, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Pay in Ontario Hockey League

Seeing your comment on List of professional team in Michigan, I looked at both the CHL and OHL articles and don't see anything describing who gets paid or the semi-pro status in either article. Your knowledge could add such information to these articles. Rmhermen (talk) 01:57, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

@Rmhermen: I usually leave the Canadian-based articles to the Canadian editors since they have bit of different style (because Major Junior is about as popular, if not more so, than many of the AHL teams in the states. But you do seem to be correct that there appears to be no direct mention of player status, or even the fact that playing in the league, voids a players NCAA eligibility (and the NCAA is the only organization that considers the CHL to Professional). The Junior ice hockey page does talk some more about it, but let me do some source finding before I go throwing my knowledge/Original Research at it. What I do know is many or most players get a rather significant stipend, apparently enough to be considered pay by the NCAA, and that a player can play games in the CHL after signing an entry-level contract with an NHL team (I believe as long as they never played a regular season game with a NHL team). So even if an unsigned player is playing in the CHL, because they can play against professionally contracted players, the NCAA considers the CHL leagues professional. But because not all players receive pay, it does still qualify as an amateur league along with all the other junior ice hockey leagues. This article/blog covers a great deal of the info.

In contrast, semi-pro leagues are considered different than fully professional by essentially how much the league pays the players and self-declared semi-pro leagues are openly declaring that they do not pay enough to live off of the pay full time. This is only different from the CHL leagues in that the CHL supplies housing and living needs for the player, which allows them to finish school without worrying about making money to live. The stipend is really just there so that the player has some non-designated financial allowance. Yosemiter (talk) 02:20, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

@Rmhermen: I added some content about the NCAA pro status vs. amateur status on Canadian Hockey League and Junior ice hockey#Major junior. I might be able to find a source on how much players currently get paid in their stipend, but it can be highly variable and would go out of date quickly. But the short story is that even the Overagers in the CHL don't get paid a living wage and most of the leagues push a simultaneous education program (and the stipend is mostly just there so that a player doesn't need to get a job). If you think what I added helps let me know. Yosemiter (talk) 22:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi

Saw you say "teams and their websites come and go often, adding a third party link" on the Arena Developmental League page. Just wanna let you know you can use the Wayback Machine to archive links if you want to. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 16:43, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

@WikiOriginal-9: I am well aware, but the Wayback Machine is not 100% for small pages like low-level teams and leagues as far as I am aware. Third party websites that reprint news articles last longer and the wayback machine can preserve their links better. Those are my thoughts anyways and either way works when used properly. Yosemiter (talk) 14:09, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

True that it isn't 100% for some sites. I think I've archived some sites in the past and then went back later and they didn't work due to robots.txt or something. Not sure if there's a work around to that. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 17:51, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Notable people

The consensus is that playing for a American sports team in Foo doesn't automatically make the person from Foo. Denver Broncos players are not automatically categorized Sportspeople from Denver, Utah Jazz players aren't automatically categorized Sportspeople from Salt Lake City, etc etc. Byron Wilson's article makes no mention of Park City, he isn't categorized 'People from Park City, Utah'. You need a reference saying he is from Park City....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:00, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

@WilliamJE: That wasn't my reasoning, I stated most of the people listed in that particular section are not "from" Park City (nor does the title say Notable People from Park City, it could be literally taken to any notable people associated with Park City without a clarification statement). So I was saying if you remove one for said reasoning, then remove all that don't apply for the same reason, which would be about half since many of the so-called notables of Park City moved there after they became notable. I don't care about notable people at all, I was just stating that he fits in with the rest of the list as it currently is. Here is at least one reference to his time in PC for that purpose. Yosemiter (talk) 21:57, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

People who move to Foo and live there in some capacity more than working in that location, are People from Foo. Joe Smith baseball player born in Brooklyn, plays his career in Cincinnati and lives there and works as a truck driver after he retires from baseball. When he retired from truck driving he moved to Miami with his wife where he lived for two years till he died at 71. He'd qualify as a person from Brooklyn, Cincinnati, and even Miami even though he didn't live there anywhere near as long as the others. He lived there....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 23:37, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

@WilliamJE: I understand fine, I am saying remove all that fits (which is most of the Olympic medalists who trained while living in PC), or remove none if that is your reasoning. I am not opposed to Mr. Wilson's removal, I am opposed to singular removal edits where others would qualify as well. I have never added or removed so-called Notable People to an article, but it is likely that the PC residents had added the PC Olympians because PC is not a city of 100,000s of residents. Many members of the Ski Team seem to be seen as part of the community and are often considered locals (as opposed to tourists who frequent the location in the winter). Said Notable People are also not just there because a contract says so (as in your example), and they don't have to live there, they live there because they see it as the best place for them to train for their selected sport at that time. Also using Google for Bryon Wilson Park City and this is his current Facebook Page. Ref 1 Ref 2 Yosemiter (talk) 00:07, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Chicago Blitz Indoor Football - 2016 AIF Record

Per AIF League Schedule Chicago Blitz record was 4-3. http://aifprofootball.com/schedules.html As there were limited teams to play within the AIF league, the league commissioner approved games with non-league teams to count towards regular season standings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:245:4080:59A0:ACC0:F718:85D2:23DF (talk) 14:49, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@2601:245:4080:59A0:ACC0:F718:85D2:23DF: See your other Talk page comments at User talk:2601:245:4080:59A0:B104:DEE0:C581:5681, but I will repeat. Please provide evidence for the April 30 2-0 win listed on the AIF site. No game was mentioned as being scheduled to be played on that date since the Marion Blue Racers folded. The Blitz own Facebook page was one of the better organizations with scoring updates and game announcements and there is absolutely no mention of any game, scheduled or not, on April 30 and no mention of being awarded a forfeit win. The date was listed as a bye on the AIF schedule until early May when the win was randomly awarded to the Blitz. As seen at 2016 Chicago Blitz season, those of us who have updated the records are not questioning the Blitz win over the Memphis X-Sounds on May 7 as several AIF teams were awarded regular season wins over non-league teams (notable most of the New Mexico Stars games). The only win in question is the April 30 win by forfeit for a non-existent game (which you refer to and was listed here until 16:30 on 11 August when it went off line), has no record of being scheduled as shown in the archived schedule from March 2016. Yosemiter (talk) 16:14, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

P.S. Since your IP is constantly changing, for better reliability and higher degree of good faith in editing, you should consider getting a user name. Odd large changes and unsourced edits by non-registered users are frequently viewed with suspicion and have a significant chance of being reverted. Of course, a change including sources will always be welcome from any user. Yosemiter (talk) 16:51, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

The AIF schedule had several errors on their website; some which were corrected, some not. After Marion left teams were working with each other to try to fill in the schedule. The Blitz and W. MI Ironmen arranged a game at W. MI on April 30th which was approved by a League Representative, however erroneously never put on the schedule. If you look at the Chicago Blitz Facebook page dated Feb 29th you will see the schedule posted has the Blitz playing at W. MI on April 30th.

When the Blitz played W. MI on April 2nd, they were informed that the Commissioner was changing the game, dictating that W. MI play N. Kentucky Nightmare so that each team in the division plays them twice. Since the league did not have a team for the Blitz to play on that date and each team was to play 8 games, the league issued the Blitz a forfeit W. If this was not a legitimate AIF forfeit W, why would they put that on the schedule? I would think the official AIF schedule showing it as a regular season W would be evidence enough, however I didn’t realize Wikipedia takes the “guilty until proven innocent” stance. There are email correspondences, as well as AIF schedule screen shots, supporting this fact, however it’s hardly worth the effort to dig them all up.

While I appreciate Wikipedia for the knowledge it provides, and the author’s dedicating their time to update it, it should be fact based, not based on the author’s opinion. I don’t understand why the burden of proof is even needed here when the AIF clearly issued the W for 4/30 on their official website. Although I am curious why the refusal to acknowledge the League’s documented record, or what the insinuation is here… do you think the Blitz have pictures on someone in the AIF and blackmailed them into giving them a Forfeit W for a game that never existed? LOL Just saying. --2601:245:4080:59A0:ACC0:F718:85D2:23DF (talk) 18:24, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Actually everything you said would be fine except we need a source and the AIF records have proven to be a very unreliable one as you just confirmed (with your comment to not all errors were corrected). To that end, since there was no public announcement of the change or award of the forfeit win, it simply looks like yet another error. Unfortunately, we also don't accept hearsay due to the fact that it isn't sourcable and that could lead to any user coming in and saying "I'm so-and-so and I know so-and-so executive, so believe what I type 'cause it's true." Hence my comment about registering and reading WP:Conflict of Interest which discusses how to make recommended changes. Otherwise, the editors on here can only trust the sources we can see and confirm with reliable sources. In the long run, it doesn't matter because it didn't affect the Blitz getting to the playoffs or the fact that they cancelled their last game (which frankly, cancels each other out anyways). And no, we don't believe you blackmailed the AIF, most people just thought the AIF was extremely erratic and therefore inherently unreliable. Yosemiter (talk) 18:49, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Agree :) --2601:245:4080:59A0:ACC0:F718:85D2:23DF (talk) 18:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Missouri Mavericks

Hello, I noticed your edits about the St. Louis Blues and Missouri Mavericks having what they are calling a "working agreement." This is technically NOT an affiliation (as seen here) as affiliations are part of player development contracts. The "working agreement" is solely advertised as a cross-promotional agreement for advertising and collaborations between to the two organizations for the in-state development of hockey. It mentions nothing about player development of affiliating. (But it does not exclude it as a NHL club can send a player to any ECHL willing to take him, Columbus probably sent more players to Cincinnati last season than to their official affiliate in Kalamazoo. Also the Devils and Panthers, neither of which had ECHL affiliates had working agreements with Adirondack and Manchester, respectively, last season.) For the time being the only official affiliations the Mavericks have are with the Islanders and Tigers and the Blues are only affiliated with the Wolves. Thank you. Yosemiter (talk) 17:42, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

At first, I thought that was what the announcement was about until I read about the Islanders being their "primary" affiliate. Why say that if there's no secondary affiliate? As for the ECHL's team page, in past practice, the website doesn't always get updated until the season starts. However, I think the league has a rule that their teams can't have dual affiliations (or maybe it's the AHL). No big deal. Thanks!! Raul17 II (talk) 04:14, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@Raul17 II: You are correct, at the 2015 ECHL BOG meetings they came to an agreement for only a single "official" NHL affiliate, mostly to ensure the then independent former CHL teams that had joined in 2014 got an affiliate when teams like Kalamazoo had three. However, there have been "unofficial" affiliations that I have already mentioned so there is no reason the Blues won't send players to the Mavs, but unlike the mentioned unofficial affiliations, nowhere in that press release does it mention the Blues and player development with the Mavs. Also, the use of the word "primary" is somewhat confusing since secondary can refer to either another NHL team (which would be odd because in the same statement the GM says "Our primary focus, as a development league and team, is to further the growth of the New York Islanders’ prospects") or it can refer to their secondary AHL affiliate. But if the ECHL uses the same rules as last season, then only the Islanders will be listed as an affiliate. (And that page has been recently updated. From my observations, they actually update that page fairly rapidly upon changes, within one to two days, and you will notice all affiliation changes from last season are listed shown there.) Essentially, what I am saying is unless there is some statement made that says "affiliates of the Blues" in some extent, then otherwise it is just WP:NOTCRYSTAL.

For a comparison for what the ECHL used to usually call when they had multiple affiliates (or commonly called "dual" affiliation) here is the same affiliate page from the end of the 2014-15 season Yosemiter (talk) 15:30, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. When I made those changes, I completely forgot about the league's rules. I just focused on the term primary affiliate which I lead me to believe that there was indeed a secondary affiliate being signed. Being an Islanders fan, I am very aware of players being sent to different ECHL clubs outside of their affiliate. Thanks again! Raul17 II (talk) 12:17, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
	I noticed your work combatting vandalism. It is appreciated. War (talk) 18:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Regals

Yes, the situation appears to be somewhat fluid! I guess they're "back"... for now. Keri (talk) 16:13, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Sports in Phoenix

Hi. I understand what you were saying in your edit summary when you removed the line about Phoenix being the last of the 12, but I don't think that's what that sentence was referring to. I agree, with its current placement, it can be misconstrued, but the sentence you struck was not about the last team (which would now be LA), but that of the 12/13, Phoenix was the last city to get ANY major team. In other words, all the other cities had at least one major league team prior to Phoenix getting the Suns. Which I think is a pretty interesting point to include in the article. But not sure how to word it. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 19:47, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

@Onel5969: I wasn't sure how to word it either, hence my initial deletion. I have since re-added a rephrased version, but there are a lot of qualifying statements, which is why it doesn't feel particularly notable to me. Yosemiter (talk) 20:21, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Adam Chapie

Adam Chapie doesn't meet the notability guidelines for Ice Hockey, and it is correctly tagged for deletion. Nonetheless, the page is not 'drastically' failing, as he was an assistant captain of an NCAA Div I school and had been a key player on a frozen 4 team (not enough to acquire notability but not drastically IMHO). Also, he is likely to get his 'cup of coffee' with the NYR this year or next which will give him notability status. The article is messy, with poor (not incorrectly linked, although I may be missing your specific complaint) links and sources...would be a good clean-up candidate for sure. I have a skewed viewpoint as a UML grad and a member of WikiProject Lowell, but I think deletion may be either premature or too picky...having said, it does meet deletion criteria. Bill McKenna (talk) 13:45, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

@Bill McKenna: Then it is WP:TOOSOON and he still fails GNG per WP:ROUTINE, I just didn't feel like writing a paragraph on the number of ways he does not currently meet notability guidelines (asst. capt. does not make one notable, non-primary media sources covering the person itself and not mere mentions or routine coverage are needed to establish notability through GNG). If one day he does, then having an admin restore a deleted page is simple and there is no harm done. But in my experience in hockey, a player rarely makes the jump from the ECHL to the NHL. (Showing incorrect link #1, as the ECHL has not been named "East Coast" since 2003. The other incorrect link is Cleveland Lumberjacks should be Cleveland Jr. Lumberjacks.) The only way to automatically assume notability at that level is by making the league First Team All-star or other achievement. Unless he was a goaltender (who get called up to the NHL in emergencies) or plays some other hockey media crazed area currently (where he might meet GNG based on coverage before meeting the minimums at NHOCKEY, and Greenville is definitely not that), then yes he drastically fails in every requirement looked for, hence the prod instead of taking it to AfD. He may be a good minor leaguer, play in 200 AHL games, win awards in the future, but as far as notability standards are concerned on WP, he fails in every way. So yes, drastically applies. Yosemiter (talk) 16:22, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Fair point, and understood completely - Also I concur having read the Hockey notability guidelines (sigh). I guess my only recourse is to make Greater Lowell hockey crazy - pretty close, but not exactly Trois Rivieres, Quebec. Hopefully he'll get his call, and we can have a restore! Bill McKenna (talk) 18:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Norfolk Admirals

Thanks for catching that. It's what I get for trying to edit stuff at 1 in the morning. Not the smartest thing to do. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:32, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Erie BayHawks II

That's the reports I'm reading also, since it's the same local management team. I just couldn't rename the page to "Erie NBA Development League team" since there is one already there(the original BayHawks page) and I couldn't use "Erie BayHawks" since the team is still active. Will probably have the get the admins involved after the season is over so that the redirects and pages are in order... Roberto221 (talk) 00:42, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

@Roberto221: I know why you did what you did, and it makes sense for now. I am also trying to discuss the best way to handle the situation over on the Basketball project talk page. Yosemiter (talk) 02:15, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Editing

How do I start a new section under a sports team? I'm trying to put up the Tri-City ValleyCats 2nd No hitter up. ValleyCatsFan10 (talk) 02:05, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

@ValleyCatsFan10: thanks for reaching out, but you will see your edit has already been corrected by a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball and they would be much more helpful in that regard. However, I do focus what time I can on minor leagues in general (primarily US hockey, low-level football, basketball, and soccer) and will say that that particular page is a mess (particularly in WP:PROSELINE and apparently no interested editors since 2011). Messy minor league team pages is nothing new (hence, my focus on them) and I encourage you to look at Triple-A team pages as guides for how a better minor league should look (in most cases anyways). NatureBoyMD's edit fixed the issues with your edit, but Tri-City ValleyCats' page still need lots of help, such as making the "Team history" more streamlined instead of subsections that are actually season highlights (Louisville Bats is a good example of a streamlined History section). Yosemiter (talk) 03:39, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

national team in the infobox

was curious what your opinion was on Canadian players who play in the Spengler Cup. It is a peculiar situation, and I am not sure if I care that much, but it seems odd to designate a player as a national team player because of participation in a club competition.18abruce (talk) 21:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

@18abruce: I am by no means an expert on protocol for infoboxes and I really only update or nominate players on minor league teams, hence all my recent noms on ECHL and lower players. (Some of those have not been updated in years and found their sourcing suspect.) But since you asked, it seems less like a national team appearance and more of player representing his home nation in a tournament, similar to this season's 2016 World Cup of Hockey. The only reason I can think of that might make their Spengler Cup appearance infobox worthy is if the team was actually managed and chosen by Hockey Canada and I don't know the answer to that. But that's just my two cents. Yosemiter (talk) 22:07, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes they are chosen by Hockey Canada. I guess I find it very odd to say that Paul DiPietro has played for two national teams (a rare distinction) when playing for Canada he never played against another country. I changed it and someone changed it back, just trying to decide if it really matters, thank you for your input.18abruce (talk) 14:14, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

March 2017

Consider reading WP:TPO. I now realize that that comment was a mistake, but it gives you no means to revert it. Hawkeye75 (talk) 21:36, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

@Hawkeye75: Per WP:NOTFORUM, removing off-topic comments is generally allowed and common practice to keep the article talk pages from spiraling into non-content related topics or random tangents. Per your own link, WP:TPO, it states about off-topic subjects: "It is still common to simply delete gibberish, comments or discussion about the article subject". So don't go posting warnings to others about guidelines unless you actually know what they say. It seems giving warnings to others got you into trouble in the past, so move along. Yosemiter (talk) 21:54, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

It wasn't my intention to giving you a "warning". My apologies, Yosemiter. We both like hockey, so hopefully we can have a better relationship moving forward. Hawkeye75 (talk) 21:56, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

@Hawkeye75: While it wasn't directly a warning, posting guidelines on more experienced editors' talk pages can be viewed that way, especially when you are incorrect. Judging by your previous blocks and a cursory glance at your talk page, I am merely giving you some advice: step lightly around others, make good edits, but avoid posting advice on others walls for the time being until you have proven yourself. Otherwise continue on with the Vancouver and hockey-based edits. Yosemiter (talk) 22:07, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Dayton Wolfpack

this is Mr. Marcus Ray GM of the wolfpack. it was me that edited some of your info on the team earlier. wanted to male are all the right parties were listed. any questions or info that u would like to add, feel free to email me at marcusray83@gmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rayday312 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

@Rayday312: Thank you for clarifying. For future purposes, using a reference and edit summary helps others know that the edit is not just vandalism or a test edit. Coaches and owners in infoboxes are one of the most vandalized sections of sports team on Wikipedia, so untrustworthy IP-based edits without references routinely will be reverted. Also for stat listing purposes, was Kerry King-Brown also coaching on Sunday? I can't find it listed. Otherwise good luck with your season. Yosemiter (talk) 01:49, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Wiarton Schooners

We are the owners of the Wiarton Schooners. I appreciate that it may appear from the information you have available to you that we are associated with Joe and/or Tina Zeil and/or the teams they ran we are entirely independent of them. They folded the Wiarton Rock due to lack of funds, lack of local support and a team that was not competitive. We purchased a new franchise from the GMHL.

We would really appreciate the Wiarton Schooners being on a separate page.216.104.120.25 (talk) 13:50, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Congrats on having a new team in Wiarton, I sincerely hope they do well. That being said, according to the GMHL ("a change of ownership") this is a continuation of the same franchise under new ownership... this is not the same thing as being associated with the Zeil family.

Everyone who buys a team wants a fresh start... I get it... But the GMHL does not (apparently) regard you as an expansion team, and therefor we cannot either. We will make it clear in the article that you are not affiliated with the franchise's previous ownership group(s), but unless you are specifically an expansion team - which usually the GMHL is quite clear about that - we will need to rely on the available sources.

Ask them to clarify in their statement on their website that you are an "expansion team" (not a change of ownership) and we will be happy to oblige, but as stated, it is an ownership change - therefore, same franchise, new team name and ownership.

The ownership of the Toronto Patriots want nothing to do with their franchise history as the Quinte Hawks... but they bought a spot in the league, we cannot erase history. DMighton (talk) 00:14, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

BLPs

You really need to read WP:BURDEN and WP:BLPREMOVE. Don't add any more unsourced content to any articles. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 18:27, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: What about those links that don't work? I get they are primary and therefore less reliable, but they do show overall placement of each event. It is an interactive page so I have no idea haw to make it link to each season differently. There is a drop-down menu for each season dating back to 2011. Other than that, neither of your reasons pertain to the most recent reverts. (BURDEN applies the Racecarr's initial edits and BLPREMOVE applies to poorly sourced of unreliable, you are not going to get any more reliable than primary in this case.) Your best argument then for removal would either be for notability (which is questionable here) or WP:NOTSTATS. I did not add any unsourced content (Rracecarr did), I added the sources per your removal reasons and you reverted me. This does not explain why. Yosemiter (talk) 18:39, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

"What about those links that don't work?" - You answered your own question with "and BLPREMOVE applies to poorly sourced of unreliable" - the links don't work, therefore it's poorly sourced and/or unreliable. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 18:43, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: That was a typo, it should have been "What about those links that don't work for you?" They work fine for me (as in functionally). Did you actually try to open the link? Yosemiter (talk) 18:44, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

National Arena League standings

I just had to undo an edit to Template:2017 NAL standings made by an IPv6 user after the conclusion of the Lehigh Valley vs Jacksonville game yesterday. The IPv6 user had only changed the values for Jacksonville's win and Lehigh Valley's loss, but nothing else, not even win percentage or the points accumulated. I wanted to come to you first to make sure it's okay to post on this anon's talk page about their edit, as there's nothing on their talk page, not even a Welcome section. Thanks! Jd02022092 (talk) 00:11, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

@Jd02022092: It is certainly ok to post on their talk page with a welcome template. I probably wouldn't waste my time though, it looks like an inexperienced attempt at a one-off edit and write it off as a failed test edit by a user unlikely to reuse that IP. Yosemiter (talk) 00:45, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Brampton Beast

Yosemiter

Why are you removing records like Save Percentage and Points Per Game. Regardless of what other teams may or may not post, there is no reason to exclude such records. I would put them back - but you tend to quickly remove and re-set these type of posts.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:4D60:141E:CD9F:46F8:FCC6:5C1D (talk) 00:10, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

First off, I don't quickly revert those types of edits, I revert those types of edits when done midseason. It is current consensus to NOT change or "correct" season or franchise records midseason because they will quickly no longer be "correct". No editor, even in the NHL ranks, have shown a commitment to that level to update the records for every team standing, team record, player record, etc., after every such record must be updated. One example of my revert of this sort was the midseason update to the Plus/Minus record for the Beast. Can you honestly tell me that you were willing to update that particular stat after every single game he played? I watch over 500 minor and junior league and team pagse and am one of the only ones to consistently do so (just look at the edit history of 2016–17 AHL season, 2016–17 ECHL season, 2016–17 SPHL season, 2016–17 FHL season, etc.) and there is no way in hell I am also going to try and maintain some random IP's wish of an up-to-date stat. (I could also mention WP:NOTSTATS.)

Second, I could not find a good source for some of the averages. Averages are a finicky stat as someone with one game can dominate that particular stat. Such as the "single season Save Percentage" could technically be Andrew D'Agostini who had a 0.966, however, it was over two games for the entire 2015–16 season. So where is the cut-off? (He also has the best GAA with 1.00 for the Beast in a season). I will re-add the Pacan one though for franchise PPG because he did at least play most of season.

Also, you should phrase your question better. Wikipedia is not about what you want, just what is notable and sourceable. Some would call all those stats trivia and it is not commonly used across the mid and lower minor level teams (see my first point, no one updates them). Yosemiter (talk) 00:54, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying about mid-season changes. However, in my mind if a record was "55 points" - once a current player breaks the record - that is the new record even if mid-season. So for instance the points record was 55, and was broken over a month ago...so why not keep it as current as possible? - as the 55 will never again be the record - holding it back 'at it the previous season' provides inaccurate information from the moment the record is broken until the end of the year. Whats the logic for this?

As to things like Save Percentage while you have a point -- and I agree it should say Grant Rollheiser .922 (minimum 10 games played) for instance - but to leave out the Save Percentage stat entirely - which many argue more relevant than wins or goals against average does not make a lot of sense.

Also, unclear why you removed Scott Howes mark of 1.25 points per game in a season which remains the single season record by all standards.

This has nothing to do with what I want as you suggest - just what is accurate. And to me David Vallorani @ 75, 78, or 82 (even if it is slightly off by a day or two) would have been more accurate than Pitton 55 - for a big chunk of the season. Teams that thrive for accuracy and more detail should not been penalized because other minor league teams may choose not to post these.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:4D60:141E:CD9F:46F8:FCC6:5C1D (talk) 02:11, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

It is not teams that strive for accuracy, it is editors on wikipedia. As I stated I am on of very few who actually do strive to keep it up to date and we cut out what we deem not as important and that includes franchise records. It just isn't reasonable or feasible to update the hundreds of team pages for what you are asking (regarding when Pitton goals record). It is this way for all teams in all sports across the entire wikipedia (per WP:NOTSTATS). We are not here to collect statistics, there are much better sites for that (and those stats keepers probably get paid). So if it is an on-going stat (again in reference the MacLean's +/- and Pitton's goals) we will not update midseason. One of the few exceptions for midseason updates is if a record is broken but will NOT be extended through the season. Just look at the edit history from the Columbus Blue Jackets when they broke their consecutive win streak. Random IP's would occasionaly try to add it while it was on-going. When it was done, it went up on the records table. Which is why we often say "as of the 2015–16 season" or "as of April 9, 2017". That is what makes it correct. If not then Vallorani's 72nd point last season would have been incorrect on his 73rd and 74th. And since no one regularly updates team pages, it is best to not have it. Just know, you are not alone in your opinion, but that it just isn't feasible from an editing standpoint.

For Scott Howes, I just couldn't find a source.

On the other hand, I am entirely within the guidances of WP:NOTSTATS and WP:TRIVIA to delete the entire section so don't argue with me about what should or shouldn't be included. Yosemiter (talk) 02:36, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Sioux Falls Stampede

Thank you for assisting on the Sioux Falls Stampede I plan on adding much more information in the coming days, but feel free to correct me as I go along or wait till the end. I personally like trivial details and dates, but if you see or feel likely something is better off left broad to save time, please edit. It is possible, depending on how much time I have, the history section will expand enough to warrant its own page, but that is far down the line.

I hope to completely revamp the entire history and page in general, but will make small plugs here and there.

Thank you!

@Jrobb525: No junior team merits its own history page, not even AHL teams get that amount of treatment. Just make sure to read WP:PROSELINE to try and avoid making it look like a poorly written timeline. Also avoid WP:TOOMUCH and WP:PEACOCK. The wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a sports journal or an almanac. So if you see me editing your content it is likely because of those reasons. Otherwise it looks good. Yosemiter (talk) 17:58, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Yosemiter, Do you have an example of a well-done junior page that would be the epitome of what the Sioux Falls Stampede can become? Thank you. ---  Jrobb525 15:46, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

@Jrobb525:, for the US junior teams, Waterloo Black Hawks is likely in the best condition. However, US junior teams are mostly in terrible shape and could all do with either PROSELINE fixes (using subsections for each season that are usually less than a paragraph in content looks messy and is mostly non-notable events) or general style and format upgrades. I would primarily look to Canadian junior teams (such as any team in the Ontario Hockey League) or possibly the minor professional American Hockey League (although some of those are also in poor shape, but Hershey Bears is not bad). PS, you don't have ping me with the template here, it is my talk page. Yosemiter (talk) 16:12, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Kansas City Mavericks

I think that the St Louis Blues had signed the Mavericks as their ECHL affiliate. The affiliations with the Islanders and the Bridgeport Sound Tigers ends with the close of the season. Raul17 II (talk) 10:26, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

@Raul17 II: Please wait until it is confirmed before adding though, it will likely be announced in the next few weeks. My sources say they same thing and that the Islanders are going to affiliate with the Railers. But nothing can be added until an announcement is made, otherwise we violate both original research and WP:CRYSTAL. Yosemiter (talk) 12:24, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Soo Greyhounds

Can you please have the hounds wiki page just like the Belleville bulls if that's alright Ritchdog2000 (talk) 11:38, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

@Ritchdog2000: I'm not sure what you are referencing. If you mean the colour bars above and below the name in the infobox, then yes I can change that. If your mean my revert of the name in the infobox back to Sault Ste. Marie, then no, I will not change that because that is still their official name. Yosemiter (talk) 12:24, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Railers Logo

Hi Yosemiter,

I understand everything you are saying. However, the logo you are putting on the page is incorrect, and the team does not want it up. People are pulling it from there and using it in advertising and what not, and the team does not want this happening. The team would rather have the white background logo as a placeholder while we upload the correct one, than having the wrong logo up. Wikipedia for some reason is currently not allowing us to upload the correct one. If you would like to further discuss this you can email me at tomm@railershc.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tjmatthews94 (talk • contribs) 17:12, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Warnings over NBA D-League / Oklahoma City Blue

For your edits and some edit summaries at NBA D-League (edit summary) and Oklahoma City Blue (edit summary) and discussion at User talk:Spshu/Archive 1#NBA D-League

Please remember to assume good faith when dealing with other editors. Thank you.

This is the only warning you will receive for using inflammatory, derogatory, or racist language. Using inflammatory, derogatory, or racist language outside of a purely encyclopedic context is considered vandalism. Please review this policy before posting again. If you use inflammatory, derogatory, or racist language on Wikipedia in violation of this policy again, you will be blocked from editing without further notice.

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continual disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. If you are upset because I templated you as a regular, which is only an essay not a guideline. You don't seem be acting as an experienced editor and the templates provide a netural voice instead of a negative voice like you took on my talk page. Spshu (talk) 15:29, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to leave these here for a bit because I don't need to hide it. I cussed in two edit summaries due to and to demonstrate my frustration (as emphasis, but using "fricking" would have worked just as well). This was due to vast unnecessary deletions to a franchise's history and repeated changes made to the league history because the accusing editor removed them claiming they could not find sources. On both subjects, I found that the sources were easy to find, the content itself had been in common circulation, and had been in place for over a decade. The "attack" was I called the user lazy (the exact quote was "Just because someone was lazy years ago when the article was edited does not give you an excuse to be as well") which is mild in my opinion and a rough way of my own style of criticism for the method of editing due to the what appeared to be a lack searching for verification. (The user has since cited WP:PROVEIT as their guideline, in which I would argue "If you think the material is verifiable, you are encouraged to provide an inline citation yourself before considering whether to remove or tag it" applies for something that has been in place for 12 years.) It appeared as lack of WP:PRESERVE and the repeated removals made me lose AGF for the edits as it appeared the editor was just removing all content on the basis that it was unsourced without putting in any effort to confirm. Yosemiter (talk) 17:30, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

As to the Disruptive Editing claim: I did what that template suggested before the user templated me (contacted the editor on their talk page and asking why, I wasn't getting responses prior to getting reverted again). The editor took offense that I took offense to the deletionism. I reverted and added sources, the user then reverted back. I had to point out that I addressed or removed several of offending statements. In total, the user removed my changes twice, accepted the changes and then deleted info (entire sections of franchise history on a team page). I then reverted the entire edit (rashly unfortunately because the editor did make good changes in there as well, just harder to find when an entire section was deleted) and only added the sources that were easily verifiable for the deleted content. So if that is disruptive editing, then I guess I am a very disruptive editor. Yosemiter (talk) 01:49, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Champions Indoor Football playoffs

Hey, I was wondering if you were willing to update the CIF playoff bracket as games conclude? At this point in the CIF season/postseason, I am unable to keep track of the league. Thanks. Jd02022092 (talk) 00:15, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@Jd02022092: I'll do what I can, but my weekends are usually spent outdoors and away from my computer (and often out of cell reception). I might be able to get to it late Saturday or midday Sunday. Yosemiter (talk) 02:04, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Roadrunners Owner

If, as per your edit, the Coyotes are the "owner" of the Roadrunners, and Barroway is the sole owner of the Coyotes, doesn't that mean that your edit has just said that Barroway is the sole owner without actually saying it?194.28.124.53 (talk) 02:10, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

@194.28.124.53: There has been no mention of the Roadrunners in any if the reports, the last report (from last year) was the Roadrunners were owned by IceArizona. The reports all said some version of "Barroway bought out his IceArizona partner's shares in the Coyotes." Until there is actual statement saying that Barroway is owner of the Roadrunners as well, then it would be both speculation and original research to assume anything. Sometimes not listing an owner is a solid option because they often have nothing to do with the operations of a team in minor leagues anyways. Yosemiter (talk) 02:52, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Wheeling Nailers

I just noticed your reversion of my edits to Wheeling Nailers#Season-by-season results. My additions were per WP:A11Y, and particularly WP:DTT. The scope attributes are designed to improve the readability of users of an assistive technology called a screen reader. Without these attributes a screen reader cannot determine which column heading to read out, which makes the table confusing. Please WP:Assume good faith and undo your reversion. Just because you see no difference, don't assume I was only trying to junk up the article with useless markup. BrentDT (talk) 15:11, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

@BrentDT: Ahh, I see. I had never seen it used on any hockey tables before, so without knowing the purpose, it just looks like comments for code (which it is but for a accessibility reason). A bit odd to choose a low-level minor league team table to insert it, the NHL and other high leagues probably deserve the extra attention first as they get edited far more often. Yosemiter (talk) 15:25, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Milan Luković

In light of you re-nominating Bogdan Janković based on the previous AfD being "keep" based on Assertion of notability votes, can you look at Milan Luković and that article's AfD that was closed as keep? Joeykai (talk) 19:29, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

@Joeykai: Agreed and done. I should point out that perhaps instead of just writing "fails WP:NHOCKEY and WP:GNG", you should explain why. It seems you would get a more accurate response from reviewers to start with why it fails GNG (since that is the more important guideline) and then why it fails NHOCKEY, especially in instances where they have participated in any national team (lower division or juniors) or won an award in a lower-level or uncategorized league. But that is just my two cents. Yosemiter (talk) 21:21, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Spokane Empire

I am sorry that I apparently misread your edit, and interpreted it as the opposite of what it was. Please don't upset yourself over this error on my part.--Quisqualis (talk) 21:44, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

@Quisqualis: No worries, I wasn't upset and did not mean to come off that way. I was just making it clear and added a reference which is probably better anyways. Yosemiter (talk) 21:52, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Aston Rebels Logo.jpg

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:05, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Vegas Golden Knights Practice Facility

Why can't the Vegas Golden Knights Practice Facility be listed on the Wikipedia page? 2600:8801:2D01:64D0:4C52:6E66:FD09:97C3 (talk) 02:46, 1 August 2017 (UTC)NetWitz

@Contributions/2600:8801:2D01:64D0:4C52:6E66:FD09:97C3: Take it to Talk:Vegas Golden Knights, but the gist is that the more editors feel it is not relevant, notable or important to the team history. No more so than say their locker rooms. Yosemiter (talk) 02:56, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

City National Arena

I declined the speedy deletion request for City National Arena. Even when you placed the tag, there was content -- you might want to review the requirements for A3. Also, instead of getting into an edit war with the page creator, you might use their talk page to explain what's going on instead of risking a block. Cheers. --Fabrictramp | talk to me 04:33, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

@Fabrictramp: Perhaps, I misinterpreted, but it simply said "Practice Facility of the Vegas Golden Knights". That didn't seem like content to me. The reverts were because the author was removing the tag without discussion (I gave my reasons in the edit summary and their talk page) and I was under the impression the author could not do that. My revert was not intended as an edit war, simply trying to point out that they were not supposed to delete it until someone like came across it to review. I had already removed my own tag on the one that was improved with additional content. Not sure what else I was supposed to do there, perhaps you like to tell what should have been done instead? Yosemiter (talk) 04:40, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

"Practice Facility of the Vegas Golden Knights" is content. Yeah, it should be written as a complete sentence, but it's a stub with content and context. The requirements for speedy deletion are pretty strict because it can be demoralizing to editors to get a page deleted, so it's important to make sure speedy tagging is accurate.

As I said above, once you revert a couple of times, you should be going to their talk page to have a discussion, much like we're doing here. You can't explain nuance in an edit summary (and edit summaries can often come off as unintendedly harsh), nor can you hear what others have to say in response. How would you want to be treated in the same situation? That's often a good guide for what to do.--Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:12, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

@Fabrictramp: That was exactly what I had already done, I was just under the impression that the author could not remove the tag (per the statement on the tag itself), so I would like to know if that is actually allowed. I supplied the author with a host of links on how to make a better stub. They never made a response there. Was there a better tag other than a prod (such as an A7, but I wasn't sure if a building counted as one of the subjects listed there)? Yosemiter (talk) 17:19, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

PROD/AfD is about your only option for a building.--Fabrictramp | talk to me 22:34, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

PLEASE UNDELEYE CUTY NATIONAL ARENA IMMEDIATLY OR EKSE I WILL REPORT YOU!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by NetWitz (talk • contribs) 00:43, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

@NetWitz: I tried working with you and discussing why it might not be notable, instead you decided to revert every single one of my edits, even when I left in information that was actually relevant, so I nominate the page to see what others saw of it. It was a strong consensus against having its own article and at best would have one line in the Vegas Golden Knights team info section. By reverting everyone, now you are heading towards a path of being blocked. Yosemiter (talk) 00:49, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it's fair that other practice facilities get their on page and not this one!! NetWitz (talk) 00:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)NetWitz

Discussion at Wikipedia:Requested templates#Infobox for indoor football games

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Requested templates#Infobox for indoor football games. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 23:37, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox National Arena League team, Template:Infobox Indoor Football League team and Template:Infobox af2 team

Template:Infobox National Arena League team, Template:Infobox Indoor Football League team and Template:Infobox af2 team have been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox Arena Football League team. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 23:28, 5 August 2017 (UTC)