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Deletion Sorting
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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Pakistan. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion
Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
  1. Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
  2. You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Pakistan|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
Removing a closed AfD discussion
Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
Other types of discussions
You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Pakistan. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.
Further information
For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

This list is also part of the larger list of deletion debates related to Asia.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
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Pakistan

[edit]

Zahrisaurus

[edit]
AfDs for this article:
Zahrisaurus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Yet another Malkani dinosaur. References are exclusively predatory journals. This is not a real dinosaur, or even a notable fake one. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 17:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I notice it was previously "soft" deleted, potentially making this eligible for WP:CSD#G4? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kashif Aslam

[edit]
Kashif Aslam (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable makeup artist. This was created after the deletion of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kashee's Beauty Salon by the same user. Fails WP:GNG. Gheus (talk) 09:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Irfan Pardesi

[edit]
Irfan Pardesi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable forex trader. Lacks unpaid independent in-depth secondary sources to pass WP:GNG. Gheus (talk) 09:26, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Raihan Merchant

[edit]
AfDs for this article:
Raihan Merchant (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Tamgha-e-Imtiaz is a minor (4th grade) award, according to our article. There is no direct or in-depth coverage about him. Fails WP:GNG. Gheus (talk) 09:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'4th grade' makes it sounds like it isn't a real award at all, whereas it definitely is and only conferred upon high-achievers. It is the 'medal of excellence' after all. Raihan Merchant is actually a super influential figure in Pakistan media and advertising. Sharan Shias (talk) 10:15, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perak railway station

[edit]
Perak railway station (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NTRAINSTATION. cyberdog958Talk 06:42, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bandial railway station

[edit]
Bandial railway station (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Absolutely no claim to notability, and no sources. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 00:26, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Emma Alam

[edit]
Emma Alam (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No significant coverage from multiple reliable source about this subject. The award the article claimed she won, the source ain’t reliable to be verified. But still doesn’t meet GNG. Gabriel (……?) 18:52, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Hannan (singer)

[edit]
Abdul Hannan (singer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I nominate this article to debate whether to keep it or eliminate it, due to a transfer to the draft, for my opinion the article maintains relevance and a large number of independent sources that prove its notoriety, if improvements need to be made, they can also be made. In addition, the singer has participated in a very concert With extensive media impact in Pakistan, in 2023, Hannan appears on the list of the most played artists on music platforms. Alon9393 (talk) 12:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pind Brahmanan

[edit]
Pind Brahmanan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Doubts has been cast as to whether this is a place. Plotting in the coordinates, you get to a settlement Tarapur where "Pind barhaman" shows up as a school. Fallingrain.com can't be used as a sole source for a settlement. Geschichte (talk) 19:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Syed Mir Ali Imam Al Mamun

[edit]
Syed Mir Ali Imam Al Mamun (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The cited sources are: (1) an anonymously self-published local history page which says its source is the Bengali Wikipedia article [2] (which in its present form supports little of the promotional content here), so it is WP:CIRCULAR in addition to all of its other problems; and (2) a user-generated "royalty" website described by other editors at RSN as "cruft", a "fan site", and "clearly unreliable".

Online and offline searches in English and Bengali found nothing but Wikipedia mirrors. This retired Lt. Col. does not meet WP:BIO or WP:GNG. The article serves as nothing but an attractive nuisance for those who add unsourced content. Worldbruce (talk) 17:10, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan

[edit]
Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No sources that discuss this book, merely listings. This incomplete hit on Google Books says... something about the book but I can't tell if it's any longer than a sentence. No sigcov. The past AfD was closed as keep because standards were different in 2006, the author being notable does not help. Redirect to Abul A'la Maududi? The one hiccup is this was initially published not in English, but I cannot figure out what title, so I could not search to see if there were sources in its native language. PARAKANYAA (talk) 12:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature, Islam, and Pakistan. PARAKANYAA (talk) 12:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Abul A'la Maududi unless notability can be demonstrated with Urdu sources. Interestingly the Urdu wikipedia article on Maududi doesnt list this work in the list of works by him, so I wonder if it's an english-language editorial collection of translated essays and articles rather than a single work by him. Mccapra (talk) 13:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Islamic Law and Constitution, rewrite and keep. This book has been translated into English from a language not written in Roman script, so a search in English alone will not suffice for BEFORE. We need to know how to transliterate the title into the original script before we can dispute its notability. This seems to be a reprint of part of, and chapter 2 ("The Islamic Law: Its Introduction in Pakistan") of, a book called [The] Islamic Law and Constitution [3]. This book (see another edition, which may or may not have the chapter: [4]) seems to have a lot of citations (80+ in GScholar), and numerous editions, reprints and translations, and reviews in English [5] and other commentary in English (see eg Google Books). His best known book: [6]. There is also a section "Some Opinions about the First Edition" in a section "Islamic Law and Constitution" [7] which quotes book reviews (1) from J.N.D. Anderson in "International Affairs", London (which is here) (2) from "The Dawn", Karachi (3) from "The Hindustan Times", Dehli and (4) from "The Hindu", Madras. Seems to satisfy TBK, GNG and criteria 1 and (judging from the article on the author) criteria 5 of NBOOK. [We should also have an article on the bibliography of islamic law: see [8] and numerous periodical articles.] James500 (talk) 04:27, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @James500 This is not a reprint - you can find copies of both books online, they have a completely different table of contents and contents. It is not the one chapter of that book, it is a full other book with entirely different contents. I oppose any move because from looking at it it appears to be an entirely different book.
    Per Mccapra above I think this is just a translated collection of individual essays with no direct Urdu equivalent. It has nothing to do with the other book. If someone wants to write an article on that book then they can but this is not the same thing. This one has 0 sources. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:20, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As far as I can see, at least some of the text of the 1960 English translation of "Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan" appears to be taken verbatim from chapter 2 of the 1955 English translation of "Islamic Law and Constitution". To me, the 1960 book looks like a rehash of part of the 1955 book. There are bibliographic sources that say that the books "Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan" and a number of other apparently derivative books (such as "Rights of Non-Muslims in an Islamic State" and "First Principles of the Islamic State") are "A Part of Islamic Law and Constitution": [9]. James500 (talk) 07:35, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @James500 There are plenty of edited collections that have content similarities with one another, with single chapters/essays being duplicated. Just because a work of one author is included in two collections does not make them the same collection. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:43, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 06:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Samad Dawood

[edit]
AfDs for this article:
Abdul Samad Dawood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Little has changed in his fortunes since the last AFD eight months ago. He's still a successful and civic-minded businessman from a prominent Pakistani business family, and has worked at a high level for some notable companies. But on Wikipedia, notability is not inherited. I couldn't find SIGCOV of him in English or Urdu, just passing mentions in articles about the companies and organisations he's worked for, nothing to bring it up to the standard of WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Wikishovel (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: If only he had appeared in a few dramas, even in tiny roles, his BLP might have been easily saved from deletion under WP:NACTOR! But it’s ironic that someone so important in Pakistan's business community doesn’t have enough coverage that meets GNG. Anyway, I’ll hold off on voting for now. PS. No offense to the nominator Wikishovel, who also has legitimate reasons for taking it to AFD. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 17:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Still not a slam dunk; outside of the Engro connection, there are no RS that discuss him and we only have source 13 that is helpful. Rest are yellow per Source Highlighter, so of moderate reliability. I still don't see/find much else we can use. Oaktree b (talk) 22:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep: The article follows the guidelines of WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV as it demonstrates significant coverage in both Pakistani and international media, meeting WP:RS. As per WP:BASIC, “People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published[4] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[5] and independent of the subject.[6]” Please feel free to check the sources, they meet all the mentioned criteria. Crosji (talk) 07:11, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Reuters is RS.--Ameen Akbar (talk) 14:03, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Reuters reference is indeed a reliable source, but that article is a summarised interview, and interviews are WP:Primary sources. Wikishovel (talk) 07:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 19:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect to Dawood Hercules Corporation because he's prominent businessman serving on the board of various companies under Dawood Hercules Corporation. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 14:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The references for this article are strong, even for a stub. The subject is a notable businessman in Pakistan with occasional public appearances. His notability is supported by coverage from reputable national newspapers and some international outlets. The first deletion discussion, with only one vote for deletion, appeared premature. Hence the new article has been improved with additional sources. While contributions are welcome, the arguments for deletion are not in line with policy. -Crosji (talk) 06:48, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strikethrough of second !vote: in an WP:AFD discussion, we get to post our recommendation just once. You're welcome to comment as much as you like. Wikishovel (talk) 07:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: While there may not be extensive media coverage, the subject is undoubtedly an influential figure in Pakistan’s business community, as highlighted by Saqib and others above. The significance is evident through the inclusion in government advisory groups and recognized contributions. The cited sources, including interviews with reputable, independent global media, further reinforce the prominence. Instead of debating the subject’s notability, efforts would be better spent refining and improving the article.
202.141.250.250 (talk) 10:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strikethrough of second !vote: in an WP:AFD discussion, we get to post our recommendation just once. You're welcome to comment as much as you like. Wikishovel (talk) 11:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

information Note: Closing admin should disregard some IP votes, as it appears that canvassing may be influencing the outcome. --— Saqib (talk I contribs) 16:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I still don't see a consensus (even after disregarding second "votes" that were cast). A source review could be helpful as well as arguments based in policy. Opinions, both pro and con, based on who he is related to, are not useful to an AFD discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Dawood Hercules Corporation. I was in the process of closing as such, but as we edit conflicted will just leave this as a !vote. He does not merit a standalone, but the target makes sense. Protect if needed against disruptive recreation. Star Mississippi 22:35, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment here's a source assessment, as suggested by Liz above in the relisting comment:
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Wikishovel
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
Karachi School of Business & Leadership, "Mr. Abdul Samad Dawood"[10] No Yes No profile page from a university of which he's on the board of governors ✘ No
Engro Corporation "Engro Corporation 1H 2021 Results" [11] No Yes No A press release by his employer announcing compamy results, mentions him briefly in one paragraph ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Summit highlights importance of girls’ education" [12] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of the International Women Leaders Summit, where he's mentioned in passing as an attendee ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Corporate Corner" Yes Yes No a photo of six CEOs and CFOs at a conference, with Dawood and the other five mentioned in passing in the caption ✘ No
Financial Post "Pakistan's Engro Looks To Invest In Other Developing Nations" Yes Yes No an article about Engro, with several quotes from an interview with Dawood ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Resignation of Director" [13] Yes Yes No Formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's resignation from Cyan in 2014 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Board Meeting - Election of Chairman and appointment of CEO, CFO and Company Secretary"[14] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's election as chairman of Cyan in 2022 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Change of CEO" [15] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's appointment as CEO of Dawood Hercules in 2014 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Appointment of CEO" [16] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's resignation as CEO of Dawood Hercules in 2016 ✘ No
Business School Lausanne "PEBBLES (PVT) Ltd.: “Building Hopes” " [17] No Yes No Case study by a business school on a subsidiary company of Dawood Hercules, where Samad Dawood is mentioned in three places as the parent company's CEO, e.g. " the organization’s sustainability perspective and the journey it took to transform the dream of Mr. Samad Dawood, the CEO of Dawood Hercules Corporation, into a reality" ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Dutch company acquires Engro Foods for $446.81m"[18] Yes Yes No Article about another company taking over Engro Foods, with a quote from Dawood from the Engro press release. ✘ No
Reuters "Pakistani conglomerate Engro looks to go global, its main investor says" [19] Yes Yes No Interview with Dawood about Engro, primary source ✘ No
Pakistan Today " "Engro's Rs60 billion question" [20] Yes Yes Yes Article about the company, with several quotes from Dawood and some analysis of his role, meets SIGCOV. ✔ Yes
Khaadi "Abdul Samad Dawood"[21] No Yes No A short director profile by his employer, primary source. ✘ No
Pakistan Business Council "About PBC"[22] No Yes No Simply lists him as a board member. ✘ No
Hub Power Company "Annual Report 2016"[23] No Yes No Annual report simply lists him as a board member, with a short bio. ✘ No
Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Limited "Annual Report 2008"[24] No Yes No Annual report simply lists him as director, with a short bio. ✘ No
The News International "In rare visit, top Pakistani business leaders meet US officials"[25] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of a trade delegation to the US, mentions him in passing as one of the eight members. ✘ No
The Nation (Pakistan) "Inaugural meeting of Industrial Advisory Council held"[26] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of a government-backed business conference, mentions him in passing as one of the members attending. ✘ No
Pakistan Today "Govt establishes Industry Advisory Council to develop industrial policy"[27] Yes Yes No More routine coverage of the government-backed business conference above, mentions him in passing as one of the members attending. ✘ No
WWF–Pakistan "Annual report 2012"[28] No Yes No Listed on p. 56 in the list of board members ✘ No
Business Recorder "WWF-P holds awards ceremony"[29] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of awards ceremony, briefly mentions Dawood and another member getting certificates of appreciation ✘ No
ABC News (United States) "Titanic submersible victim’s deaths ‘brought the world together,’ Dawood family member says"[30] Yes Yes No Short interview with Samad Dawood on his grief following his brother's death in an accident, primary source. (Please see article for full URL: source assessment template doesn't work with full YouTube links with separators.) ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Wikishovel (talk) 16:14, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I have just added an additional source from Bloomberg.com, a reputable and independent news outlet, further strengthening the subject’s notability. The table is impressive, though I am unclear why some quotes are not considered significant coverage, as they seem to meet GNG criteria:
- The Reuters article is based on a direct interview with the subject.
- The 2016 Express Tribune article by Salman Siddiqui, from one of Pakistan’s leading English-language newspapers, features prominent quotes from the subject.
- Additionally, a university case study is inherently independent, so I wonder why this is being questioned. Crosji (talk) 11:21, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not every single businessman from Pakistan becomes notable just for being involve in a business inside Pakistan. BLP lacks significant coverage in reliable sources and by looking at image it seems it is a case of COI. 39.34.141.22 (talk) 09:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Pakistani animated television series

[edit]
List of Pakistani animated television series (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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An unsourced list of non-notable work does not really meet WP:NLIST imv. and since it includes only a handful of entries, it's make sense to delete it. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 10:19, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 18:52, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 12:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exercise Indus Shield

[edit]
Exercise Indus Shield (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I don't see how this meets NEVENTCRITERIA. There are several issues. I don’t see evidence of WP:LASTING impact, or even WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE. Wikipedia:Existence ≠ Notability and WP is not a newspaper. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 07:46, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Can these sources be evaluated?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:57, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Source assessment table:
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
Pakistan Uses JF-17, J-10C Fighters & CM-400 To Counter India’s S-400 System In New Warfare Drills Yes ? ~ ? Unknown
Chairman Joint Chiefs Of Staff Committee witnesses Air Exercise Indus Shield-2023 Yes No Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 440#BOL News Yes ✘ No
PAF Multinational Exercise “Indus Shield-2023” commences Yes Yes No ✘ No
Air exercise ongoing in Pakistan with participants from 14 nations including Saudi Arabia, UAE Yes Yes Yes ✔ Yes
14-nation mega aerial warfare exercise in full swing at PAF air base No Yes Yes ✘ No
Army chief visits air base to witness aerial exercise Indus Shield-2023 ~ Yes No ✘ No
Pakistan Air Force launches 14-nation Indus Shield 2023 exercise with Middle Eastern participation Yes Yes Yes ✔ Yes
China, Saudi Arabia among others participate in 14-nation 'Indus Shield 2023' air exercise organised by Pakistan Air Force Yes Yes No ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Aviationwikiflight (talk) 08:39, 31 August 2024 (UTC) Reassessed Arab News sources as reliable. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 13:19, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to allow for discussion of source assessment.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 20:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. I've chosen this rather than a third relist for reasons I'll explain. This comes down to a simple discussion around SIGCOV. I've disregarded a number of (mostly) keep !votes that do not reference this, or any of our P&G's. After doing this, there is no clear agreement or consensus regarding whether the sources propagated in this discussion are sufficient or not. Rather than relisting, closing as no consensus but noting that immediate renomination is allowed by any interested party, however if someone renominates I would encourage them to focus the debate on refuting the sources presented in terms of SIGCOV with a specific rebuttal to each (think a source analysis table or similar). Daniel (talk) 01:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nayatel

[edit]
Nayatel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I don't see this company meeting SIGCOV or even NCORP. The article mostly relies on sources tied to the organization, GENREL sources and even sources thats falls under WP:NEWSORGINDIA — Saqib (talk I contribs) 15:59, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 01:30, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 00:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per lacking SIGCOV Babysharkboss2!! (Nomad Vagabond) 18:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did you look at the sources above? C F A 💬 19:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But none of the sources provided by the IP discuss the company in the detail required by SIGCOV. --— Saqib (talk I contribs) 14:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, they do. Did you read the case study? This also has several paragraphs of coverage. Then there's this, this, etc. C F A 💬 15:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Cyber Internet Services

[edit]
Cyber Internet Services (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I don't see this company meeting SIGCOV or even NCORP. The article also seems pretty promotional and mostly relies on sources tied to the organization or its subsidiaries, like stormfiber.com, which is a brand of this company. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 15:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Following the comment above, a source review would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:34, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Dawn is reliable per WP:NPPSG and there are quite a few Dawn articles that offer significant coverage of this company. ProPakistani.pk is listed as "no consensus" because there are concerns about undisclosed sponsored posts, so I wouldn't trust them for notability. Regardless, there is some coverage in other sources (ex: [44][45][46][47]) so I'm leaning towards a keep. C F A 💬 23:51, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the comment. In light of the reliability of Dawn and the sigcov in it, plus the sources identified by CFA, I'll !vote keep. Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:26, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @CFA and Dclemens1971: Are the keep votes based on Dawn's non-byline coverage currently cited in the article, which is itself derived from press releases? — Saqib (talk I contribs) 21:23, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you have this press release for us to compare? Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:04, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Dclemens1971, Based on your comment, it seems like you're relying heavily on Dawn's coverage to justify keeping this article. There are three Dawn articles cited, but the coverage is questionable. For example, this article is clearly marked as "PR" under the image caption, indicating it's likely based on a press release. This second news story only briefly mentions the subject [Cyber Internet Services] in the context of an incident at StormFiber, a subsidiary of the subject making it routine coverage. And the third article offers just a trivial mention of the subject. None of these provide in-depth coverage of Cyber Internet Services itself. Similarly, the coverage provided by @CFA: is also questionable. Why? Because the term “PR” is clearly mentioned under the image captions, suggesting it's likely based on press releases. The coverage in Business Recorder is confirmed to be press release-based as well, as indicated by the byline. Now the question is, since when did we start keeping articles based on press release coverage? — Saqib (talk I contribs) 12:21, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not exclusively basing my !vote on Dawn coverage but RS/N seems to support @CFA's view and CFA brought other sources that support notability under WP:NCORP. I note you have not supplied any press release that you assert (without evidence thus far) the Dawn articles are based on. Sourcing an image to a press release is extremely common even with reliable sources, which need to attribute their images and have no reason not to use images provided by companies. That is no indication that the article itself is based on a press release. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Dclemens1971, Please check the tone of these articles - they’re clearly PROMO. We don’t always need evidence to show that a piece is based on a press release. I don’t have to add anything more on this. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 11:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This referenced Dawn article seems to be based on, and quoting directly, this press release. I haven't checked the others, yet, but I suspect the same applies. The Dawn article doesn't link to the press release (bad form!) but other coverage does (see here for example, with them even directly stating as such when linking to it: According to the press release issued by PEACE). So it seems Saqib is correct in his assessment. GhostOfNoMeme 23:53, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The same indeed seems to apply for this Tribune article. It's again a promotional piece based on the same press release straight from the involved company. GhostOfNoMeme 23:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per CFA and Dclemens1971 analysis. StormFiber is not a company or subsidiary - it is doing business as StormFiber for public internet connections. StormFiber coverage ([48], [49], [50], [51], [52]) does count towards Cyber Internet (additional coverage: [53], [54]). At worst, redirect to Lakson Group per WP:ATD. 194.213.16.36 (talk) 19:36, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as the reliability of the sources has been questioned. Also, the option of a Redirect has also been proposed. Participants coming into the discussion now, please check the sources brought up in this discussion, not just the ones appearing in the article now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:56, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.dawn.com/news/1476691 Yes While Dawn is a Independent RS, but this is a no-byline piece, so we don't know the author. It looks like it's based on a press release ~ It’s a no-byline piece and seems based on a press release. If one check the tone because it reads just like one No It's routine news coverage with no in-depth details about the company itself ✘ No
https://www.dawn.com/news/1519863 Yes While Dawn is a Independent RS, but this is a no-byline piece, so we don't know the author. It looks like it's based on a press release ~ It’s a no-byline piece, based on company's own press statement No It's routine news coverage with no in-depth details about the company itself ✘ No
https://www.dawn.com/news/1727236 Yes While Dawn is a Independent RS, but this is a no-byline piece, so we don't know the author ? It’s a no-byline piece No It's routine news coverage with no in-depth details about the company itself ✘ No
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1953039/pakistans-internet-infrastructure-get-96-tbs-boost-new-cable-system Yes The ET is a RS, but this is a no-byline piece, so we don't know the author. It looks like it's based on a press release ~ It’s a no-byline piece and seems based on a press release. If one check the tone because it reads just like one No It's routine news coverage with no in-depth details about the company itself ✘ No
https://www.brecorder.com/news/40211289 ~ While Business Recorder is an independent news source but this is clearly marked as press release ~ Since this is based on a press release, I'm unsure ~ I don't see in-depth details about the company itself ~ Partial
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
It looks like this source table was put together by User:Saqib. Thank you for assembling it but please sign all comments and contributions to the discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 03:52, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with the assessments in this source table for reasons already noted above. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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