Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia

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Discussion over: WikiProject Indonesia . Project Noticeboard . Portal Indonesia




Proposal[edit]

There is a clear consensus to implement the two proposals:

Cunard (talk) 05:23, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There are two proposals:

06:18, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

  • Support - proposer JarrahTree 00:29, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Support - note that there is a new law on spelling, id:Ejaan Bahasa Indonesia. @JarrahTree: can you participate on the Indonesia FAR? Fixed the unnecessary brackets. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:01, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Support - There are naming/spelling inconsistencies throughout Wikipedia articles on Indonesian topics, so this guideline is needed to rectify that. I checked the guidelines and they all are reasonable and mostly in-line with practices in other English texts, nothing seems clearly wrong. HaEr48 (talk) 04:19, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Support. The proposal does not seem to violate other established guidelines such as WP:UE and WP:COMMONNAME. Please do note that the promotion to a guideline should be done via a community-wide RfC per WP:PROPOSAL; I'll take care of that. --HyperGaruda (talk) 06:18, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment regarding spelling varieties: I recommend that there be a note regarding titles of creative works. Loetoeng Kasaroeng (the 1926 film), for example, is universally referred to using the van Ophijsen spelling, while Sitti Nurbaya (the novel) tends to be referred to using EYD (EBI is, for our purposes, essentially the same).  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:56, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
    For those not in the know: EYD = Ejaan yang Disempurnakan (following the 1972 spelling reform) and EBI = Ejaan Bahasa Indonesia (following the [very minute] 2015 reform). Written Indonesian has gone through three major spelling reforms; EBI, meanwhile, is relatively minor in scope [bolding, capitalization of the terms "si" and "sang"] and thus does not really affect how we work on Wikipedia. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:42, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
    I do not think the titles are going to be a problem, considering the "unless the term is much better known in the English-speaking world under another spelling" clause, which basically stands for the WP:COMMONNAME guideline. --HyperGaruda (talk) 12:28, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
    Except one would debate whether a title can be referred to as a term. Honestly, there's a preference for English-language titles, but almost no Indonesianist would write The Rose of Cikembang (for example) instead of the actual title (Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:56, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
    Well, if "almost no Indonesianist would write" the English title instead of the Indonesian title, than that would mean the Indonesian title is the common name referred to in said guideline. Perhaps a (piped) link to WP:NC in the proposal will do the trick? --HyperGaruda (talk) 04:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Thanks to those who have replied and commented here, so far - I should clarify that when I am mentioning project tag - it is the WikiProject Indonesia tag that goes on the talk page of Indonesian articles - I am not sure if other projects have such an addition, as long as it does not contravene and policy or process, I do believe a link in that project tag is something this project needs due to the range of subjects and topics covered. JarrahTree 08:32, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
    @JarrahTree: I have made a copy of Template:WikiProject Indonesia at Template:WikiProject Indonesia/sandbox, so that you may try out changes without compromising the live template. I would do it myself, as I'm very familiar with the usage and capabilities of {{WPBannerMeta}}, but I'm not at all sure what you're asking to be added. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
  • How long are we waiting for people to weigh in? So far there has been no objection. HaEr48 (talk) 01:32, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Heheh this is the thing about this project - silence and inaction are common... JarrahTree 04:42, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Per WP:ANRFC, the default length for RfCs is 30 days. --HyperGaruda (talk) 08:08, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
To quote that page: "if the consensus is clear, any editor—even one involved in the discussion—may close the discussion. The default length of a formal request for comment is 30 days... if consensus becomes clear before that and discussion has slowed, then it may be closed early." I believe this is the case here. There has been no dissent and discussion has slowed. So let's close it? HaEr48 (talk) 02:38, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Indonesia provinces flag[edit]

i think we should delete all image in Category:SVG_Flags_of_provinces_of_Indonesia and Category:Flags_of_provinces_of_Indonesia because indonesian province doesnt have a flag officially. Hddty. (talk) 12:26, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

@Hddty.: I checked some of the flags and they seem to have all been created or based on creations by one user who has a record of publishing "proposed" flags, as can be read on his talk page. A discussion about a similar case (Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Proposed flags of Nuevo León) has led to the deletion of several fictitious flags. At the very least, a warning should be added to each fake flag: Commons:Template:Fictitious flag. In any case, deletion of Commons files should be requested there at Commons, not here at Wikipedia; see Commons:Commons:Deletion requests for further information. --HyperGaruda (talk) 14:43, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
@HyperGaruda: The discussion: commons:Commons:Categories for discussion/2017/02/Category:Flags of provinces of Indonesia
@HyperGaruda: So when the category deleted?

Assessment[edit]

Indonesian items are now over 1000 in backlog for assessment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unassessed_Indonesia_articles - any help to reduce this number would be appreciated, thank you JarrahTree 07:43, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Dating system[edit]

For Indonesia between 1940s and back to the late 1700s, it is acceptable that there are Netherlands East Indies and Dutch project tags, and links

Proposal is for pre-1800 (when the VOC ended) - (there was not a solitary unitary control over what is now Indonesia)

is that we revert to Indonesia for convenience (with qualificatory explanation any page that has the name). Although the 1600-1800 era was dominated by the VOC, it was not 'total' in its control over most of what is now Indonesia.

So this would mean - any dated item between BC and 1800 for any part of Indonesia is Indonesia by category or dating, 1800-1945/1949 is Netherlands East Indies, and since, Indonesia.

Please comment or critique this proposal - thank you JarrahTree 09:14, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

It is not entirely clear to me what you are proposing here. Could you please give some examples of what you intend to do? --HyperGaruda (talk) 10:09, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

---

items dated BCE - through to 1800 - Years in Indonesia (with qualification) - proposed
items dated 1800 - 1949 - Years in Netherlands East Indies - already in practice
items dated 1945/9 - current - Years in Indonesia - already in practice

---

Like the spelling convention page, I would like support from fellow editors (modified or not) - so we can have it as an established practice, and hopefully the big edit taggers will not go and create something different without checking first

Muddier now? JarrahTree 10:30, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
Forgive me my ignorance, but I still don't get it. Maybe you could explain how this proposal will affect the article Banten Sultanate, for example? What will change on that page? --HyperGaruda (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
OK, it depends - currently the article is placed in time in Indonesia by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:17th_century_in_Indonesia and any of the dates in the article are being ignored by article creators - if there if a specific date for Banten - which there is, 1527 - the date that the sutanate was founded - we can also place 1527 in Indonesia - in the scheme as outlined above - category 1527 in Indonesia - and the subsequent add ons.. JarrahTree 09:37, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Oh, so this is a proposal for a category naming convention, am I right? In that case, you should notify WT:WikiProject Categories and WT:NCCAT. Browsing through their archives, there has been a similar discussion about what national entity to use, but the consensus is not clear from that. --HyperGaruda (talk) 11:35, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
Never is, why the query is here, not there. Thanks for the useful links. The over-all category system has been abused to such an extent - project level discussion is the safest, and it is close to how other projects cope with the changing claims to authority overmillenia. JarrahTree 01:26, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Single line single ref stubs on the Indonesian project[edit]

Due to the resounding response of the backlog section above - another serious issue that this project 'holds' is the ever present all pervasive

single line and single ref stub on this project, about places. I am suggesting that re raise the standard, and not support such items, unless

  • The stub specifies correctly where it is based (not Indonesia, or Java) - at a province level or closer
  • The stub actually has at least an english language ref to clarify WP:V
  • The stub is more than one line or one sentence to clarify WP:N

If this was to reach project level approval and endorsement, it would help no-brainer AFDs where editors who know no better are guided.

As always the lurkers/watchers of this page are invited to comment JarrahTree 01:26, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I think we should just stick with the standard Wikipedia policy on this, e.g. WP:DEL and others. Coming with our own "standard" likely means that we will just repeat the arguments and counter-arguments that people had for a long time in Wikipedia. It's not a debate/discussion worth repeating IMO. HaEr48 (talk) 06:43, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
AFD's are not necessarily the best way to evaluate the issue, as most eds at afds do not necessarily know anything about the subjects or domain of knowledge the stubs are in - they refer to easily to google as if it is the ultimate test - there are many things 'about' Indonesia that are simply not online or on google - which is why this is raised. JarrahTree 13:53, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
It might confuse the AFDers even more if we have our own criteria which is different from the standard Wikipedia ones. What if every project wants to define their own criteria? Besides, what is acceptable varies from people to people, so it will be hard to come to a consensus. It's better to follow the standard policy, which I'm sure went through long debates as well. HaEr48 (talk) 03:25, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
I agree with HaEr48 on this. I see no need to create a separate set of deletion criteria/reformulations when general rules already exist. Besides, the two final criteria proposed here clash with WP:RSUE and WP:CONTN respectively. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:19, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

OK most Afds are rather short of understanding on what they are doing - so your comments are appreciated... I can see your points. However the general size of numbers and nature of generic one line stubs with little indication of location of context still haunt this project. JarrahTree 12:57, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

I understand the problems with these one liner stubs. While I generally discourage creating new one liner stubs, for the ones that exist, I would suggest to let it be. In many cases, I am actually able to find information and sources. This problem of stubs is a general problem with many Southeast Asian article btw. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 06:23, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Commons:Photo challenge February 2017 is Multilingualism[edit]

FYI, take a look in commons:Commons:Photo challenge/2017 - February - Multilingualism if you have any file you'd like to upload, maybe in some of your archive at home. So far nothing from Indonesia, which has so many local languages.--Alexmar983 (talk) 15:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Upcoming Wikimedia Design Research in Indonesia[edit]

Hi,

As you may already know, The Wikimedia Foundation is initiating an important, global discussion to define the Wikimedia movement’s future strategy. As part of this effort, we plan to conduct design research in Indonesia over the next couple of months. The overall research goal will be to learn how people in emerging markets seek and gain information, what kind of technology do they use (if any) in this process, and what is their access to information sources. This will help us to serve Wikimedia projects better and empower new readers in our target countries.

We have started reaching out to design research firms with a ground presence in Indonesia that can do in-depth interviews/qualitative research with people in their environment. You can find our Request for Proposal (RFP) for the research here.

Please take a look at the RFP and let us know if you have any recommendations for local design research firms that meet our requirements. You can reach us at rayyakkannu@wikimedia.org and sgupta@wikimedia.org.

Regards,

Ravishankar Ayyakkannu, Manager, Strategic Partnerships, Asia, Wikimedia Foundation. --11:43, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Need help with contacts to conduct in-depth interviews in Indonesia[edit]

Hi,

This is Ravi from the Partnerships and Global Reach team at the Wikimedia Foundation.

As you may know, The Wikimedia Foundation is working on defining the movement's future strategy. Our team is collecting opinions/viewpoints from thought leaders in emerging countries as a part of this effort. Indonesia is one of the priority countries for our team. So, we would like to talk to people in Indonesia who lead organizations and do great work in the following areas: free knowledge, non-profit, social impact, government, GLAM, education, and private sector (mobile related).

1. We have prepared a list of organizations to interview which we can share by email. Can you please look at our list and let us know if the organizations we have selected do impactful work in their area of expertise? If yes, can you please share any contacts that you may have in these organizations?

2. If there are organizations (or people) that we should talk to but they are not on the list, please share their information, and we will add them to our list.

Please contact us at rayyakkannu@wikimedia.org and sgupta@wikimedia.org to access this list.

We look forward to hearing from you. We can set up a Google Hangout to clarify the above request.

Thanks.Ravishankar Ayyakkannu, Manager, Strategic Partnerships, Asia, Wikimedia Foundation.--13:32, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Netherlands and the World Exchange Platform is online[edit]

Wikimedia Nederland launches the Netherlands and the World Exchange Platform. The platform aims to stimulate global re-use of Dutch collections on non-European cultural heritage. In particular, it aims to stimulate collections on countries with which the Netherlands have had historical ties. These countries include Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Brazil, Ghana, Suriname, South Africa, and others.

The platform also aims to foster contacts between Dutch cultural heritage institutions and Wikimedia contributors across the globe. However, participation is not limited to Wikimedia contributors. Anyone can participate, making it relevant for education and research as well.

Key properties:

  • Dutch heritage institutions can post offers on (parts of) their collections that are relevant to non-European countries
  • Wikimedia contributors gain insight in the contents of Dutch collections and can make requests for digitalisation.
  • Knowledge exchange and cooperation are key concepts.

The platform is easy to use. After registration, users can post offer/requests notices, depending on whether they are looking for material, or want to offer material for re-use. Statistics on re-use are also available.

The Netherlands and the World Exchange Platform is part of the program The Netherlands and the World. This program is supported by Wikimedia Nederland and aims to make available knowledge and content on non-European countries.

Regards, --AWossink (talk) 14:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Daikon split discussion[edit]

Please come participate in the split discussion regarding the Daikon article. Thank you. --Epulum (talk) 06:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Overuse of national flag[edit]

I'm finding a LOT of these, as though it's a formula to shove it into the infobox. On the contrary, en.WP's guidelines say not to do that unless there's some particular reason to do so. Some exception is made (although is controversial) for flags in sports articles. Tony (talk) 05:11, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

@Tony1: Example? Trying to understand what you're talking about? HaEr48 (talk) 05:30, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

The use of a flagicon to represent Indonesia in infoboxes. There are tons, which need to be removed unless there's a good reason to retain, case by case. Tony (talk) 08:28, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Tony your edit history of the last 5 years or more shows a pervading interest in flags, if you really want to make yourslf feel particularly unwell, try soccer articles in any project, not just this one. JarrahTree 02:56, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Energy in Indonesia[edit]

I came across this edit when scanning through potential vandalism. I don't have any experience with this, so I was wondering if you could see if this was somehow salvageable with references and/or being re-written, otherwise an AFG revert will have to do. Thanks for your time in advance! Best, Nicnote • ask me a question • contributions 23:12, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Ping - User:HaEr48 and User:JarrahTree. Nicnote • ask me a question • contributions 23:12, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
I really have no clue.. It has a lot of details, yet zero references. I'd suggest reverting and leaving a note for the user to include reference if they wish to restore the content. HaEr48 (talk) 02:32, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Very typical of low level english editor leaving things on wikipedia project for the last ten years. No ref, and no return. No need to get hung up on details, revert JarrahTree 02:53, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
@HaEr48: and @JarrahTree: Thanks guys, really appreciate the feedback, I just thought it might be best to double check with you before it was reverted. Best, Nicnote • ask me a question • contributions 09:14, 14 April 2017 (UTC)


May 2017 on Women in Red[edit]

Women in Red logo.svg

Welcome to Women in Red's
May 2017 worldwide online editathons.
Participation is welcome in any language.

Adath Jeshurun Women's League costume party, Minneapolis (4419484936).jpg
Test cricket - women - 1935.jpg
Pacific Basin Human Geography Cultural Zones.jpg



(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Ipigott (talk) 10:58, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Deletion requests files in Category:Flags of provinces of Indonesia[edit]

Feel free to put your opinion here. Thank you. Hddty. (talk) 09:32, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report[edit]

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Indonesia.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

  • The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
  • The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
  • The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Indonesia, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Corythalia voluta[edit]

Corythalia voluta is a species of spider that is already covered in Indonesian. It needs to be created in English. An article already exists in the Indonesian Wikipedia at id:Corythalia voluta, despite the subject having little to no affinity to Indonesia, since the animal lives in El Salvador This project is being notified because the subject already exists on the Indonesian Wikipedia, meaning that someone reading that article has to either know Indonesian or use a translator. WikiProject Spiders, WikiProject El Salvador have also been notified. Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs) 17:04, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

@Mr. Guye: FWIW, I checked the Indonesian article is just a few-sentence stub. Not sure if it's worth people's time to translate it. HaEr48 (talk) 20:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
@Mr. Guye: id-wiki most likely translated it from one of the other wikis. According to the revision histories, the dutch wiki got there first in 2011 (not surprised about that; nl-wiki is really a quantity-over-quality project). Quality-wise, I think the Swedish page page is probably a better start. --HyperGaruda (talk) 15:27, 23 May 2017 (UTC)