Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 July 12

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July 12

Transcribe this please (simplified Chinese)

Hi, could someone transcribe the characters at the top (simplified Chinese AFAIK) next to Shekor in this photo [1] please? I might be able to work it out myself and perhaps OCR would work but it seems like a lot of an effort for what someone who can read/type them could easily do. Thanks! Nil Einne (talk) 02:54, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

世科电子 is it, I think. (Although my computer can't type characters either. :P ) sonia^♫♪ 03:00, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Pinyin? Mind you after finding the answer I realised I'd actually come across it few days ago here [2] but forgot and also forgot about the model number so you could have Googled it. Nil Einne (talk) 04:31, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Not sure if you still need this, but shì kè diàn zi, I think. sonia^♫♪ 04:40, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Bonus answer: the '世科' bit is 'Shekor', and '电子' means 'electronics', and is the name of the company. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 03:16, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I planned to ask (since it seemed unlikely the whole thing was shekor which sounded like two character) but then thought I could probably find out from Google. Shekor roughly translates as Global tech? Nil Einne (talk) 04:31, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Global tech would make sense, yes. sonia^♫♪ 04:40, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

It does, yes, but the company calls itself Shekor, as on the charger pic you showed us, so I wouldn't translate it. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 07:09, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think this is jealousy, envy, or schadenfreude. Does it have a name?

• Your friend is eating an ice-cream. He is really enjoying the ice-cream, making "mmm" and "ahh" noises which sound almost orgasmic. You find this conspicuous enjoyment somehow intrusive and offensive.

• On a sunny day, your friend is enormously happy. He starts frolicking and skipping around, saying such things as "hullo clouds, hullo sky". The simplicity of his happiness makes you want to punch him in the face.

• He really loves a certain film. He is completely in awe of the characters in it, and thinks the film is deep and exciting and extremely cool. You find his state of fandom credulous, and extremely irritating. In fact he has ruined the film for you by liking it too much.

In general, you don't wish misery on your friend, nor do you want what he's got. You just wish, for reasons that aren't clear, that he would enjoy things a bit less. 213.122.54.173 (talk) 14:12, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Presumably you meant incredulous. He's more demonstrative, and you're more reserved. You think he's excessivly enthusiastic, and he probably thinks you're a sourpuss. Different personality types. See Myers-Briggs Type Indicator as a starting point. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→

I meant you consider his easy acceptance of the film as evidence that he is credulous, and this is possibly an explanation for your irritation (although it seems more irrational than that). I was hoping for a nice German word for the emotion, they're good at those. 213.122.54.173 (talk) 14:27, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Thinking cap on. Wasn't it Goethe who said (something along the lines of) there is nothing more cloying/depressing/infuriating than an endless succession of sunny days? I'm sure there's a German angst word out there somewhere for what you describe. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 14:35, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Some amalgam of unzufriedenheit and freude (along the lines of dissatisfaction with joy), perhaps? PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 14:47, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

This[3] relates, conceptually, though it's not an answer. Nor, probably, is the American colloquialism, "He's not happy unless he's not happy." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:37, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Hee. Well, that cheered me up, anyway. 213.122.64.128 (talk) 16:00, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Our article on envy suggests that's it's actually pretty close to what you want: "...an emotion that 'occurs when a person lacks another's (perceived) superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it.'" (my emphasis on the second part). I think it really depends on your exact motive - do you specifically want your friend to be less happy or do you want your friend to be less emotive? If it's the first, that's envy; if it's the second (which I suspect), I don't think there's a single word that will fit, but embarrassment at their lack of modesty seems to be close. As the embarrassing scene continues, you build up resentment (which is probably the closest single-word term). Matt Deres (talk) 16:30, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Hedonophobia is the fear of pleasure. See http://www.onelook.com/?w=hedonophobia&ls=a. -- Wavelength (talk) 18:02, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

except it would have to be heterohedonophibia - fear of other's pleasure. but really, I think this is just a regular, non-clinical form of disapprobation (moral disapproval). You find his behavior unseemly and undignified. that might mean that he actually is being unseemly and undignified, or it might just be that you're a bit stuffy. just normal human differences.

take it from me: I'm a bit on the stuffy side, and have this same problem with a few more libidinal friends. --Ludwigs2 18:21, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Why does one not share one's friend's pleasure? (http://www.multilingualbible.com/2_samuel/6-16.htm; http://www.multilingualbible.com/romans/12-15.htm; http://www.multilingualbible.com/1_corinthians/13-6.htm)

—Wavelength (talk) 19:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Wavelength — why are you quoting from the Christian bible? The question called for a name for a described phenomenon. Bus stop (talk) 19:42, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

The second link indicates that I am not without precedent in suggesting that one might choose to share one's friend's pleasure. My question suggests that "hedonophobia" (rather than "heterohedonophobia") might be the correct answer to the original poster's question, after all.—Wavelength (talk) 20:31, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

This does not address the original question, but it might be of interest: Study: Too Much Happiness May Be Too Much of a Good Thing.

—Wavelength (talk) 00:45, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

That's an interesting study. The bottom line seems to be: "Don't try to be happier." Bus stop (talk) 01:18, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Bear in mind that humans have evolved the tendency and ability to evaluate the state of mind of another person, and if we do not find the emotional expressions of another person credible, it arouses feelings of mistrust or suspicion in us. You can be happy that your friend is happy, when his expression of happiness seems reasonable, and quite uncomfortable with your friend's (presumed) happiness if you can't reconcile his expression of it with your expectations of how a person in that situation would react. You might even feel that your friend is trying to deceive or manipulate you, or that you are witnessing him trying to deceive himself. AmigoNico (talk) 23:27, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

meaning of Gha

Can any user please tell me what the letters Gha before an address in Kathmandu, Nepal stand for? Thank you. Simonschaim (talk) 14:56, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

At first look in Google, it seems that "Gha" stands for the fourth letter of the Nepali alphabet. It would be a reasonable guess that their word for "street" starts with that letter. More research needed. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:28, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

'गल्ली' ('galli'), which means side-street or alley. A bit confused why they put 'Gha' in English rather than 'Ga', although 'Ga' seems in use as well, see http://www.np.emb-japan.go.jp/org.html. --Soman (talk) 15:50, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

However in the following list of names (found in Google) BOTH Ga and Gha are used: "343, AALB00090, LIFE MEMBERS, Kathmandu, Bina Shrestha (Dr.) Kamaladi Ga 2-753 ... 346, AALB00093, LIFE MEMBERS, Kathmandu, Bed Ram Pokharel, Gha 1/610 ..." Is there therefore a difference between Ga and Gha? Thank you Simonschaim (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:44, 13 July 2010 (UTC).

'Ghar' (House)? 'Ghat'? But none of these seem very likely to me. --Soman (talk) 05:07, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Those examples also differ in that one uses a hyphen between the numbers, and the other uses a slash. So gha and ga may be interchangeable too. They always seem to be followed by a small number and then a big number, and sometimes the whole thing is hyphenated (Gha-2-513). I can only assume that means door 513 of side alley 2. (That's a long alley. It might make more sense the other way round, with hundreds of short alleys in an area, all numbered, each with two or three buildings.) I've spotted something similar in Indian addresses, too, where the "Ga" comes between the two numbers: 1-Ga-8, or 2-Ga-12. 213.122.15.186 (talk) 14:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Sittenfilm

I'm looking for an English translation (or gloss, if one exists) of the German word Sittenfilm. It refers to a genre of film from the early days of German cinema, but I don't know what actually characterises a Sittenfilm. Also, are there any German synonyms? Lfh (talk) 16:42, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

It sounds like it should mean a moralistic film (à la Reefer Madness, perhaps?) - one that conveys the importance of obeying the law and your parents and generally being good. German Wikipedia has no article Sittenfilm, though, so I can only speculate. I found this link but haven't had time to read through it. +Angr 16:54, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

That link assumes that the reader already knows what a Sittenfilm is. However, it did give me the idea to look up Sittenroman, and it turns out there is such a thing - and I get the impression from the article that a Sittenfilm is the cinematic equivalent of it. Thanks! I guess the English would be "film of manners". Lfh (talk) 18:28, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Like a Comedy of manners? 86.164.57.20 (talk) 20:43, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Possibly. Be nice to know for sure. Lfh (talk) 10:49, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

In the German Wikipedia, in de: Aufklärungsfilm, Sittenfilms are described as voyeuristic films, with permissiveness and lots of pictures of naked people. Some of these films are said to pretend that they are for giving information about human sexuality and reproduction. Sittenroman and Sittenfilm seem to be sort of false friends. -- Irene1949 (talk) 18:51, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Tolerance of zee/zed for z

If my perception is correct, it would seem to me that Americans are more tolerant of "zed" for z than other English-speakers (especially Canadians) are of "zee" for the same. For example, at American universities, there are a number of students and professors who prefer to say "zed" due to their educational backgrounds (Canada, UK, India, etc.), and not many people complain of this. On the other hand, I've been told that those who say "zee" in Canada and elsewhere in the English-speaking world would cause themselves to be singled out by others around them (for example, one of my Canadian friends told me that at the high school he attended, anyone who dared to say "zee" would immediately be labeled "American" by those around them). Is my perception accurate? 69.117.4.4 (talk) 18:33, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's one of those things that we think we should say, but like the extra "u" in -our words, we don't always do it. We all learn the alphabet song the same way Americans do, with "zee" at the end. I suppose it's a shibboleth, but it's not like you'd be lynched for saying it. (Actually, I know a lot of Americans studying in Canada, and they all say "zed" on the rare occasions that it is necessary to say it...) Adam Bishop (talk) 18:59, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree that most Americans accept that there are various equally valid versions of English, including their own, with varying national standards. By contrast, in my experience, many Britons and their colonial followers insist rather arrogantly that theirs is the only "correct" version of the language. Marco polo (talk) 19:00, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

"Colonial followers"? Are you referring to these places? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:32, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Jack, actually, I meant those places, but these places too. To be fair, I don't think I've seen this kind of Anglocentric attitude in you or in any other Australian, for that matter, so my comment may have been unfair. In fact, the attitude I describe is really most common in England, though its partisans may claim that Australia, Canada, etc., stand behind them. Marco polo (talk) 19:54, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I would disagree with the assertion. Most Americans have no idea that other countries call the letter something other than "zee." In my copy of King Lear in high school, at the point where one of the characters calls the other "Thou whoreson zed," there was a footnote to tell the reader what a "zed" is, as few readers of the U.S. edition would be aware. I knew a guy named Zika who went to the U.S. and left people completely befuddled when asked to spell his name, since they had no idea what "zed" meant. Not being a native English speaker, he was in turn unfamiliar with "zee," leading to a big kerfuffle while the two sides tried to figure out what was going on! Canadians might be able to tell an American from his use of the word "zee," but I don't think they'd flinch at it, since they here American English all the time. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:27, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I know what you're getting at, Marco (Jack here). The English "invented" the language, so it's not too hard to understand why they would lay claim to being the sole arbiter of its proper use. It's a pity that language just doesn't work that way. Just like the CO2 we breathe out, as soon as it leaves our body, it is no longer "ours". Australia, like every other anglophone country, has gone its own way in developing its own brand of English, and being good multicultural citizens, we pretty much accept that there many valid Englishes; we no longer get hung up on trying to make recent arrivals speak our way and only our way, as we tried to do post-war. Except when we're playing Scrabble: try and put "color" or similar words down, and you'll still get jumped on immediately, with cries of "That's how Americans spell it" (= "That's wrong"). It's rarely explicitly agreed before the game starts that only Australian spellings will be accepted, yet when it comes to the crunch, these Americanisms are widely treated with such disdain that any argument to the effect that they are equally validly spelt words just doesn't wash. So what we have here is much more of an anti-American thing (but it's going) than a pro-England thing (which is pretty much dead). -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 01:50, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Scrabble players can use the Official Scrabble Players Dictionary. -- Wavelength (talk) 04:08, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Just getting back to the "colonial" thing. I can't speak for all Commonwealth realms, but the major ones do not consider themselves "colonial" in any way and have not done so for a very long time. Australians are no more colonial than anyone in the USA is colonial. It would help if we were not tarred with this brush. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 02:38, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I would agree with Mwalcoff. I'd happily pay you a dollar for every American who knew that Canadians pronounce it "zed" if you'd pay me 25 cents for every one who didn't. And that's after the "I Am Canadian" Molson's commercial some years back in which the actor ranted, "and it is pronounced zed. Not zee, zed!" --- OtherDave (talk) 02:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Somehow "zed" is funny-sounding. Maybe because it rhymes with Ned and Ted and bed and all sorts of things. "Zee" has an elegance to it. "Zorro, the fox, so cunning and free / Zorro who makes the sign of the zed." Nope. Doesn't work. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:47, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

How about Zed Zed Top? — Kpalion^(talk) 09:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I think Americans, Canadians, Brits, Australians, and everyone else should just go back to calling it izzard. +Angr 05:40, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Then we could revive this antique:

Spell "gizzard".

G-I-Izzard-Izzard-A-R-D. "Gizzard".

←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:15, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to go off on my pet peeve there. I am pleasantly surprised to see that nobody from England offered the expected denunciation of American English as an abomination. I agree with Mwalcoff that probably most Americans have no idea that anyone pronounces the letter any way other than "zee". It's a big country separated by oceans from every other English-speaking country but Canada, which is unfamiliar to most Americans who don't live near the border. I think the main reason is that most Americans do not have enough money or vacation time to leave the United States, much less become familiar with another English-speaking culture. Also, the U.S. media juggernaut so dominates our airwaves that you have to be very determined to find broadcast content from outside the United States. That said, I still strongly believe that most Americans, when informed that people in other countries call the letter "zed", would accept that pronunciation as a variant. If you just go and spell a word using "zed" without that explanation, most Americans will of course be confused. Once they know this, though, I have a strong feeling that most Americans would find this a fun fact about the language and happily accept "zed" as a pronunciation. I suspect that Americans saying "zee" would not meet with the same degree of tolerance in England. Marco polo (talk) 12:49, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes they would - the locals would have already spotted they were Americans, probably from several miles away, and would make allowances accordingly. We're a tolerant lot over here, don'cha know, old bean. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:10, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

There's some compelling arguments for the "zee" spelling. It's coherent with bee, cee, dee, gee, pee, tee, and vee. Bee comes from beta, so why arrive at zed from zeta? There's no other letter name which both begins and ends with consonants (not counting -y endings as consonants), which is why zed sounds funny: it's an unusually clipped vocalization compared to the other letter names. It's true that some other Brits will enjoy flying off the handle at American spellings, in what is clearly just an excuse to indulge in a contrarian fit of national pride, but my spellchecker is set to the default US English, because I'm incredibly lazy it's often more rational. 213.122.15.186 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

"Zed" is wider known in America than non-Americans might think. But we like "zee" better. "Zed" is a nickname for a name like "Zedediah", and I knew I had heard that somewhere... This bit of dialogue from Pulp Fiction: "Where did you get the motorcycle?" / "It's not a motorcycle, Baby, it's a chopper." / "Where did you get the chopper?" / "From Zed." / "Who's Zed?" / "Zed's dead, Baby. Zed's dead." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:12, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't want to nitpick, but the actual quote has a much better ring to it: Whose motorcycle is this? / It's a chopper, baby. / Whose chopper is this? / Zed's. / Who's Zed? / Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead.—Emil J. 15:26, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

The key phrase there is still "Zed's dead." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:46, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

For related information, see Alphabet song#Zed for Zee and Spelling alphabet#Examples. -- Wavelength (talk) 14:59, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I do occasionally hear young Australians saying "zee". And some other creeping Americanisms such as the adjective or noun "alternate" (initial stress) instead of "alternative"; in standard Aussie-speak, the only place "alternate" has is as a verb, where it's pronounced differently. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:27, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I've read it's common for Canadian children to say "zee" when young, then switch to "zed" as they get older. This is likely due to watching Sesame Street as well as singing the Alphabet Song, which only rhymes if you use "zee." -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:24, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Alphabet song#Zed for Zee has a rhyming version with "zed".—Wavelength (talk) 23:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

My son has a toy that sings the the alphabet song with "zed" at the end (must be made in Canada), but I just showed him a picture of "Z" and he called it "zee". Too much American TV, clearly. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

When I was younger, I used to use them interchangeably. If I am spelling something, I use "zed", because it sounds better (imo); if I am going through the alphabet I use "zee" because it sounds funny to end the whole alphabet on a clipped little syllable that rhymes with nothing else before it. But I know that here in NZ we're not too fussed and most of the kids do learn "zee" at kindy. sonia^♫♪ 13:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

X-Y-Z/Butter on your bread/If you don't like it/You'll have to go to bed! And I would point out that, for example, F doesn't rhyme with anything else. But all of this is the product of habit, so what you're used to will of course sound 'better'. Do the French or Germans worry about their alphabet not rhyming? 86.164.57.20 (talk) 14:34, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Sonia, you and your people are sometimes called "Enzedders". Does anyone ever say "Enzee-ers"? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

...Ouch. I have actually only heard NZ pronounced "Enzee" once- we were doing the Tongariro Crossing when we came across some young Americans who were attempting it in jeans and t-shirts. Some girl commented on the name of the national park and asked if many "natives" still lived there, or whether they had "died out". We smiled and moved on. For me, the closedness of "zed", the kind of dry uniqueness about it, is what makes it sound better. I just default to "zee" when doing the alphabet unless I'm making a conscious effort- too much Sesame Street, perhaps. (Incidentally, the one children's program I can refer to without dating myself.) sonia^♫♪ 03:40, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I like to compare with other European languages: zet in Dutch, Polish, German, Romanian and Czech, zède in French, zæt in Danish, zett in Norwegian, zäta in Swedish, zeta in Italian, etc.. Notice the pattern? Hayden120 (talk) 03:04, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Sure, they all come from the Greek "zeta". Which is why Brits also call B as "beta", E as "eta" ... oh, wait ... ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I suppose this is probably because zeta was borrowed (with its Greek pronunciation) into Latin long after the rest of the Latin alphabet had been established. Ultimately the rest of the letters came from Greek too (or, well, Phoenician), but those letters were already nativized by the time the Romans decided they also needed a Z. They just called them by their sounds, as do we - except for the zed. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:11, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

That is actually the reason why Z is the last letter of the Roman alphabet. It was originally seventh out of 21, then was kicked out, and as recently as the 1st century of the Common Era it was reintroduced as the last letter of the alphabet given the need of better rendering the rapidly increasing amount of Greek vocabulary adopted by Latin. In various scripts that have given rise to or are derived from one another, all Semitic zayin, Greek zeta and Cyrillic ze have their places in the first half of their alphabets. --Магьосник (talk) 09:13, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Apparently the old-fashioned or dialectical variant "izzard" came from "et zed", meaning "and Z". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, you mean like Fee, Hee, Qee etc? /Coffeeshivers (talk) 12:13, 15 July 2010 (UTC)