Talk:Liviu Librescu

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Good articleLiviu Librescu has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 18, 2007Articles for deletionSpeedily kept
February 23, 2008Featured article candidateNot promoted
March 8, 2008Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

Best known for?[edit]

The article lists him as being best known for research in aeroelasticity and aerodynamics. I think this should be edited to include him saving the lives of his class in the V-Tech massacre. Ideas? WolverineZac 00:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article is primarily about his accomplishments in his field, and the reference is to that, as per the notability requirements of WP:PROF. Rdfox 76 02:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and changed that; he's clearly going to be better known for his heroism than his aerodynamics research. It's verifiable and npov that more articles have been written in more widely-read publications citing his name as a hero than referring to his professorial achievements and research. Two presidents -- the best-left-unnamed US one and the Romanian one -- have called him a hero; none have acclaimed his aerodynamics accomplishments. This seems like an obvious choice. Deltopia (talk) 20:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cited accounts proclaiming Liviu Librescu as a hero[edit]

All reliable sources…
76.109.163.61

Please make this page better[edit]

-original poster. Ladeer

Concern[edit]

I'm not sure how to ban an IP (or if regular users even can), but 90.184.23.187 has twice replaced the entire contents of the page with "Noob got owned". Can somebody with the access to do that ban the offending IP? Ttrygve 16:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)Ttrygve[reply]

This way to request editors be blocked for vandalism. --ElKevbo 16:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

someone actually has that level of disrespect? this world is screwed up man. ONX 16:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to the internet. Stetsonblade 16:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Bleh, people like that don't matter. The people that truly matter are the ones like Liviu Librescu. I'm proud that such a man walked the earth.--68.119.65.225 03:00, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bio & Photo[edit]

Photo: http://www.esm.vt.edu/php/genpic.php?id=10023 76.109.163.61

New Image: http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/0c/06/20070417111209990018 76.109.163.61

His resume says that he is a U.S. Citizen. Probably in addition to his Israeli citizenship. This should be added as well.

Age???[edit]

The template said 74 and the Death section said 75 131.215.7.198 11:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That way my mistake... It was fixed. 76.109.163.61

Date and place of birth[edit]

Can anyone provide a reference for Prof. Librescu's date and place of birth? -- The Anome 11:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

After a quick search: Professor Librescu, a Romanian-born expert on mechanics, Librescu, an Israeli, was born in Romania. ←Humus sapiens ну? 11:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support to keep page separate[edit]

Unlike many of the pages created for specific victims of the Virginia Tech Massacre, Prof. Librescu clearly had an impressive career. I think that warrants a separate page and not just a paragraph in the main article. ~~ Meeples (talk)(email) 12:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does he meet WP:PROF? Which criteria does he meet? If he does, then his article should stay. Currently, the article only exists because of the shooting. --StuffOfInterest 12:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree the article doesn't establish this person as meeting Wikipedia:Notability (academics) at the moment. While it was clearly created because of the shooting, if this person is notable under Wikipedia:Notability (academics) and the article clearly establishes that then it would be fine. I was going to suggest the article be left a day to see if it is improved sufficiently but since this is too late, editors should work on it in a subpage of their userpage and see if they can get it up to a level where it establishes Wikipedia:Notability (academics) (if this person does meet the criteria) Nil Einne 12:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Being chair or invited keynote speaker at international conferences is a sign of academic notability. He would have warranted an article prior to his death, even if Wikipedia's requirements for academic notability remains far stricter than for sports or entertainments figures. 128.243.220.41 15:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Given the information now available regarding the heroic action taken by Professor Librescu during the shooting, I would support keeping this article separate; I don't know if it meets any particular policy, but personally, I'd consider self-sacrifice to save his students very notable. Rdfox 76 13:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is his action something which can not be adequately described in the parent article? --StuffOfInterest 13:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Considering that there's still debate in the talk page there regarding whether or not to have ANY of the victims' names listed, I don't know that it wouldn't be deleted if I tried--and I'm not sure where I'd put it in the parent article, anyway.
On a semi-related note, does anyone have ANY idea how to properly cite something stated during a news channel's continuous TV coverage? That's where I got the information. Rdfox 76 13:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Some sort of written transcript is usually available for the news shows. That would be a reasonable source, but I don't think is would necessarily be a primary source. If some notability is mentioned in the interview/news piece then it should be possible to find independent confirmation. --StuffOfInterest 13:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now have two sources referenced for his actions. Rdfox 76 13:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
He probably would not have been notable just as a professor but he unquestionably is now. --BigDT 13:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Even if he wasn't notable as a professor (which is far from determined), his actions during the shooting make him extremely notable. Leave article as it is. --Alabamaboy 13:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I added the list of books by this professor to the article. Based on these books (including Thin-Walled Composite Beams: Theory and Application (Solid Mechanics and Its Applications)), and a search of google Scholar, which turned up 285 hits on Librescu's name, he was notable as a professor. When that is added into his actions on the day of the shooting, he is absolutely notable enough for his own article.--Alabamaboy 13:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I dropped the merge notice off (I'm the one who put it in), but please get citations in for the book references. Also, for anyone, the citation in there now need some cleanup. --StuffOfInterest 13:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Citations are now listed.--Alabamaboy 13:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The merge notice still appears on the main article on the tragedy so there may be further discussion. I agree that this article should not be merged. --Wordbuilder 13:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Professor Librescu's name has been taken off the parent article's merge notice pursuant to the consensus here. Rdfox 76 14:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Infact this was a silly debate since anyone with 246 peer reviewed publications is notable enough, period. You could have just looked at his CV. Yes I'm aware that many fields have massive lists of coauthors, but his are mostly 2 or 3 author papers. Ovbiously writing an important textbook can make one notable, but generally researchers should be consiered more notable than textbook authors. JeffBurdges 16:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the fact that he was on the front page of many newspapers this morning cements the fact that he is not only notable for his academic career but for his heroism in the massacre. Justinmcl 199.243.211.114 19:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was a former student of Dr. Librescu, I had him for Engineering-Dynamics back in 1988, he was an extremely competent professor and was able to get my class, and many others, through one of the most difficult courses in all of Engineering. There is no question about his prolific publishing career as a researcher and, as well, there should not be a question about his competency as an instructor. Webservicesdave VaTech'91

is regarded as a hero?[edit]

i dont like the line 'is regarded as a hero'. seems to be a pov here.

I'd think coming up with a few citations of this wouldn't be much of a problem. Inter\Echo 14:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I added one reference to the hero notice. There are a number of others that can be added.--Alabamaboy 14:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If his act is as described, hero is entirely appropriate. Intentionally putting one's life in known risk attempting to save others is the old-fashioned meaning of heroic. htom 14:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The students regarded him as a hero, it is not the same as you or me regarding him and then reporting him as such, giving a pov and reporting a pov is two different things. ▪◦▪≡ЅiREX≡Talk 16:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

hero

noun (pl. heroes) 1 a person, typically a man, who is admired for their courage or outstanding achievements. 2 the chief male character in a book, play, or film. 3 (in mythology and folklore) a person of superhuman qualities.

ORIGIN Greek heros.

it should be "an hero" by the way --Rinkul 22:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stop vandalizing wikipedia with your 4chan memes.

"An hero" is not a 4chan "meme," it is proper grammar. --Rinkul Rinkul 22:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The 'h' in hero isn't silent. The meme-vandalism was bragged about on /b/, no point feigning ignorance.85.216.229.175 22:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly is the meme? I haven't heard of it before. 71.127.199.199 00:03, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, for the benefit of anyone else who might be wondering. there was a child last year called Mitchell Henderson who killed himself, either because of bullying or because he lost his IPod (according to his last blog message) and his family put up a memorial site with a poem saying in several places that he was "an hero". 4chan /b/ people jumped on this in a big way, and vandalised the site and put up lots of spoof sites about him being "an hero" (as well as taking joky photos of his grave, phoning his parents and claiming to be him, and so on). And they're going through Wikipedia changing "a hero" in prominent articles to "an hero" because of this meme. The Wednesday Island 17:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's a 4chan meme. "an hero" may be proper, but it's not used any more. "The appearance of an or a in front of words beginning with h is not limited to stress." Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_and_an#Discrimination_between_a_and_an

Indeed a hero. He gave his life helping students. --66.218.11.201 02:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think in this case the word hero isn't POV but an accurate description. --Datacharge 05:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone please change it back to "a hero", 4chan vandals are at it again.

You know, this is a wiki: you can change it yourself if you see vandalism. [[User:The

Wednesday Island|The Wednesday Island]] 12:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

It's locked and I don't have an account.


The story makes no sense[edit]

The real author of this story is Librescu's son. He claims that students emailed him with the information, within hours. And just how did they get the email?

  • I can imagine any number of ways. e.g. They asked Mrs. Marlene Librescu; Professor Librescu previously told them; they asked the VT administration (Joe Librescu is a former VT student); etc. I myself, a total stranger in a foreign country, was able to contact by e-mail one of the students who jumped out the window in Room 204, and I did not need to use extraordinary resources to do so. Roger Hui 18:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Holocaust survivor[edit]

IS A LIE. This article says his father was in a camp, but he lived in a ghetto. So, clearly, he is not a "holocaust survivor' unless all Jews who lived in ghettos in WWII are all holocaust survivors.

well my grandfather lived in the ghetto of Warsaw, Poland ( and survived it which most of its "residents" didn't do) . Now you tell me that he wasn't a survivor. Oh, by the way: about 300,000 Romanian Jews died during WW 2 so Librescu is definitely a Holocaust survivor.

First of all,your grandfather was a Holocaust survivor because he survived the ghetto of Warsaw. All Jews who survived German ghettos are Holocaust survivors. However you are making the false assumption that the ghetto from Focsani was similar to the ghetto of Warsaw. By the way,the number of Romanian Jews who were killed or who were deported to the death camps in the East is around 150,000,the rest were Ukrainian or Russian Jews. You are also making the false assumption that all the nearly 500,000 Jews from Romania who survived the war were treated like the Jews from the ghetto of Warsaw.

The introduction of the article briefly mentions that he was a "Holocaust survivor" - but there is no detailed mentioning of this in the "Life and career" section. Can someone find out more and add it, (which concentration camp etc.). Bronks 15:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Haaretz newspaper reference has nothing to do with either Librescu or the shootings. It is about a moment of silence in Israel paid to remember the victims of the Holocaust. If no one else does so, I'll probably remove it soon. Corvokarasu 15:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the Haaretz newspaper external link, deeming it unrelated to the professor or the shootings. I'll place it here in case anyone wants to look at it: Silence, memorial services mark day, Haaretz, April 17, 2007 Corvokarasu 16:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it was not a German concentration camp, but some work camps/ghettos in Romania:
"When Romania joined forces with Nazi Germany in World War II, the young Librescu was interned in a labor camp, and then sent along with his family and thousands of other Jews to a central ghetto in the city of Focsani, his son said." (AP)
bogdan 16:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Does mention of his being a Holocaust survivor belong in the lead sentence? Is this really what he was notable for? Is there any standardization for how this is handled in other bios? It seems that this could be covered under family background, ect unless there is some reason for it to be in the lead. Thanks! --Tom 16:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how to do this - but can someone please add the fact that yesterday was also Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance Day - which is a coincidence of some significance in this particular case. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.138.61.192 (talk) 16:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]
The newspaper reference I removed from the article (see my comments above) seemed to be about the Yom HaShoah, however, I don't see its immediate application to this story, except as a coincidence. Corvokarasu 16:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Being a Holocaust survivor is significant and it should always be mentioned briefly in an intro, but it should not be focussed on unless the person has written about their experences. Its clearly way more significant than "family background".

Hm... I think the intro says the things one person is best known for. I'll try to write more about his early years on the "life" section. bogdan 19:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The current version is better. bogdan 22:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree. A reference to being a holocaust survivor should still be included in the intro. There is an entire category devoted to the subject, so it is worth mentioning. It certainly gives us more detail about some of the events that Librescu lived through. MCalamari 02:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yesterday being Yom HaShoah obviously does not belong on this article, but maybe on the article about the massacre itself. Why not move that conversation over to that article's talk page? JeffBurdges 16:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Damn. He survived the holocaust, but he was killed in a college shooting. Damn. --66.218.11.201 02:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the tragic irony of surviving the holocaust only to be slaughtered on Jewish day of remembrance for the holocaust is utterly unsettling. However, both FACTS are NOTABLE and stand to depict the gravity and devastation of this situation, thus the information should remain...

Half of Romania's Jewish population was exterminated. That fact alone makes him a survivor.

Second, Jews who were in the Ghettos are Holocaust survivors.

In the WWII Jewish ghettos, the German occupying force showed up and selected portions for deportation to camps, murdered in scores, and disallowed the ghetto from receiving any food or medical supplies. All of these scenarios contributed to the scope of the Holocaust.To diminish this man's suffering or the suffering of the Jewish people is beyond reprehensible.

Please DFTT. ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He certainly was a Holocaust survivor, but I don't think he was in a concentration camp, so I don't know about the current Category:Nazi concentration camp survivors. We should probably have a more general Category:Holocaust survivors.--Pharos 06:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know the name/nature of the labor camp he was sent to, but I think this alone would suffice. In addition he was deported to a ghetto. Jewish ghettoes of WWII were places where Jews were "concentrated". I would not mind if a more precise cat. existed, but Category:Holocaust survivors is a red link. ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't it be accurate to say that a Jew living in a Nazi controlled/occupied/friendly area who was not murdered in the Holocaust is a survivor of said Holocaust?Dland5others 22:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Multilingual support[edit]

The Česky, Deutsch, עברית, Magyar, and Română Wikipedias now have articles. Cool. -- Zanimum 17:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Birth year and full name[edit]

1930 birth year and full name ("I. Liviu") is from Biography & Genealogy Master Index, available at ancestry.com, citing Who's Who in America, Who's Who in Science & Engineering, and Who's Who in the World. NawlinWiki 17:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Who's Who entry is now available online here, although this probably isn't a permanent free link. NawlinWiki 22:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lead sentence[edit]

I guess it was only a matter of time before we saw "an Israeli-American Jewish-Romanian" nice work guys. --Tom 18:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Death paragraph fix[edit]

Someone is attempting to be a clever vandal and change the last line to say "an hero". This is an internet cultural reference/inside joke. Please be sure and keep it as it should be both grammatically correct and free of disrespect, "a hero" is proper of course. Sovtek 21:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

here is a lead about his funeral arrangements: http://www.lubavitch.com/top.html?ixobject=2017996

Age is incorrect[edit]

He was 76 when he died. He would not have been 77 until August, please change the age, it is a shame to mix anything up in this heroic story.

I fixed the age.--Jersey Devil 23:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It was my mistake, and was fixed, I apologize...

76.109.163.61


External links[edit]

Interesting about what his students thought. --164.107.223.217 00:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Touching. 76.109.163.61

The name[edit]

What does I in his name (I. Liviu Librescu) stand for? Also, could we mention that both his first name and his surname are Romanian or would that be irrelevant? --Thus Spake Anittas 03:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I could have been wrong, but I thought the I was vandalism, so I deleted it.BlueStarz 04:49, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alma mater[edit]

Romanian newspaper "Ziua" reported (in Romanian; cited by this article) that Librescu got his PhD from Academia de Ştiinţe din România, which appears to be an erroneous name, since the correct name is Academia Română - Romanian Academy, and I think this one should be in the article.

The official webpage of the Romanian Academy (follow the link in its WP article [1]) has a historic overview, where they mention for example that during the communist rule the law of June 9, 1948 turned the Romanian Academy into the Academy of the People’s Republic of Romania, but they never mention anything about calling it Academia de Ştiinţe din România. An additional argument: Librescu got his B.Sc. and M.Sc. from the Polytechnic University of Bucharest, although at the time the official name was "Institute" not University.

I believe the changes in official names of the institutions should be dealt with in those istitutions' articles, while their alumni should be listed as graduates of the institution as named currently (unless it was several centuries ago, and the names are significantly different).:Dc76 16:03, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An additonal matter: CNN and BBC have repeatedly reported on TV (I have heard at least 3 times from the former and 1 time from the latter) that not only he was not allowed to emigrate to Israel, but he was stripped of his academic position, years before he actually emmigrated. Anyone can find a sourse for this, and include in the article? I have also read yesterday online (unfortuanetely now I cannot find that particular newspaper) that this was because "he refused to swear allegiance to Ceausescu". Is this a journalistic infatuation or it is actually "allegiance"?

I share the reservations about teh "Romanian Academy of Sciences" (ASR) -- although mentioned in places, it's probably a mistake. See for example here (click on Istoric) for a history, stating that the ASR existed only between 1935 and 1948. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether the Romanian Academy per se would have conferred a PhD diploma -- my understanding is that this would have been done by an affiliated institute, such as the Institute of Mathematics of the Romanian Academy. We need to look at this more carefully, but I agree, perhaps in the meantime best would be to simply link to the Romanian Academy. Turgidson 17:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
His Vita can be accessed ! (Yesterday it wasn't working.) It is the Institute of Fluid Mechanics in our question. But this link desearves further careful study, for it contains more information that can be included in the article, such as the number of papers, books, grants, etc, etc. :Dc76 15:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, User:Aishel added a link to it in the article 2 hours before I noteced the links works. Thanks. Still, I think we can elaborate a little bit more from it in the article. I don't mean necesarily so much in volume, as in specificity. :Dc76 17:49, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Life[edit]

This part belongs on the top of the page. This "holocaust survivor" business is so central to this story. If it is a lie--confirmed--then it should be removed from the main article, not hidden in the talk page. This sort of thing destroys wikipedia's crdibility as an encyclopedia.

Some of the sources cited by this article ( Matti Friedman ) inform that Liviu Rebrescu was deported to Transnistria. This wikipedia article suggest this too. However,according to other sources (only) his father was deported there while Liviu Rebrescu remained with one of his cousins named Dorothea Weisbuch. I think this may be the truth. The Times article also mention that he was in a Soviet camp. Is this true or is just a confusion?

I have also heard the same thing: his father was deported to a labor camp, while his family was interned somewhere else. It was from the mouth of his son Joe in an interview to BBC or CNN (I don't know which one, b/c I was switching between them). So, I guess you need to google "interview Joe Librescu" or something like this. It is better to be precise on this matter, if possible, since it might look bad later if discovered otherwise. At any rate, Haulocaust includes not only people killed, but also those seriously affected (e.g deported) and/or threatened with murder.
I don't know or read anything about a Soviet camp. Do you have a link to The Times article, please? It might be true (there were cases in 1940s of people going through both fascist and communist camps), but it might be also a journalistic misunderstanding - let's not rush. It is not big sweat for us to email The Times and ask what is their sourse, but first, could you, please, point to the article. :Dc76 17:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This Times link is in the article: [2] ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've started this thread only because I wanted this article about this true hero to be as accurate as possible. Maybe the 5th reference/the link to Matti Friedman's article that inform that L.R. was deported to Transnistria should be replaced by another reference because keeping it could create confusion.

We all strive for accuracy, especially in such cases. Why are you caling him Rebrescu, not Librescu? Do you have a reference mentioning the name of Dorethea Weisbuch? The only link I can find with google is this Apart form refernce to Alec Cahloun, this article in the Romanian newspaper Cotitianul contains about L.L.:

Profesorul Liviu Librescu era un supravietuitor al Holocaustului. Parasise Romania in 1978, stabilindu-se mai intii in Israel si apoi in Statele Unite. Denumit „parintele petrochimiei“ in Romania, Librescu preda la Virginia Tech de 20 de ani, „fiind un profesor renumit la nivel mondial“, dupa cum relateaza cotidianul israelian „Yediot Aharanot“, adaugind ca „era profesorul cu cele mai multe lucrari publicate din istoria Universitatii Virginia Tech“. In Romania, el a obtinut un doctorat la Institutul de Mecanica a Fluidelor din cadrul Academiei de Stiinte din Romania.

Translation:

Professor Liviu Lebrescu was a Holocaust survivor. He left Romania in 1978, establishing himself first in Israel and then in the United States. Called "the father of petro-chemistry" in Romania, Livrescu was teaching at Virginia Tech for 20 years, "being a renouned world-class professor", according to the Israeli dayly "Yediot Aharanot", adding that "he was the professor with the highest number of published works in the history of the Virginia Tech Universty". In Romania, he obtained a PhD at the Institute of Fluid Mechanics within the Romanian Academy of Sciences.

and

Fiul lui Liviu Librescu, Joe, aflat in Tel Aviv, a primit vestea mortii tatalui sau prin telefon de la mama sa. „A urmat o perioada de incertitudine, insa pe masura ce aflam ca acolo au murit cei mai multi oameni si cum nu raspundea nici la telefon si nici nu putea fi gasit, ne-am dat seama ca s-a intimplat ceva rau. La vreo zece ore dupa aceea am aflat ca a fost ranit mortal“, marturiseste acesta pentru „Cotidianul“. Ultima data Joe a vorbit cu tatal sau chiar cu o zi inaintea evenimentului. „Aveam planuri sa venim la Predeal pentru o reuniune de familie“, isi aminteste Joe Librescu. „O sa mi-l mai aduc aminte si ca pe un erou care a salvat vietile a peste 20 de copii“, incheie fiul celui disparut.

Familia din Romania a lui Liviu Librescu este consternata de vestea mortii profesorului. Livia Diaconescu, verisoara primara din partea mamei, spune ca a aflat despre decesul lui de la o fosta colega de serviciu: „Nu-mi venea sa cred, a fost ceva cu totul neasteptat. Eu stiam ca e profesor universitar, dar nu am stiut ca este atit de apreciat, ca apoi am aflat ce frumos vorbeste presa despre el“, ne-a declarat dna Diaconescu, in virsta de 78 de ani. Dorothea Weisbuch, verisoara primara si ea cu profesorul Librescu, isi aminteste ca „in ultimii ani venea in Romania si ne scotea pe toti verisorii la restaurant. Ii placea sa fim impreuna. Era un om extraordinar de dotat si foarte altruist. Cind era mic, era foarte curios si stia tot, de eu credeam ca o sa fie foarte increzut, dar n-a fost asa; a fost de o modestie...“.

De altfel, in timpul razboiului, dupa deportarea in Transnistria a tatalui lui Librescu, verisoara sa a fost cea care l-a gazduit. Ambele femei sint acum cu gindul la sotia verisorului lor, bolnava de cancer tiroidian. Nici una dintre ele nu se poate deplasa la inmormintare din cauza virstei inaintate.

Translation:

Liviu Librescu's son Joe, living in Tel Aviv, received the news of the death of his father by phone from his mother. "A period of incertitude followed, but as we were learning that most of the people there died, and as he was not answering neither his phone, nor anyone could find him, we realized that something bad had happened. About ten hours later we learned that he has been mortally wounded", says he for "Cotidianul". The last time Joe spoke with his father was only one day before the events. "We had plans to come to Predeal [a mountain resort in Romania] for a family reunion", remembers Joe Librescu. "I will remember him also as a hero that saved the lives of over 20 children [=students]", finishes the son of the deceised.

The family of Liviu Librescu in Romania is bewildered by the news of the death of the professor. Livia Diaconescu, the first-degree cousin from his mother side, says that she learned about his death from a former co-worker: "I couldn't believe, it was something abosolutely unexpected. I knew that he was a university professor, but I did not know that he was so much appreciated, and then I learned how nice the press speaks about him", Mrs. Diaconescu, 78, has told us. Dorothea Weisbuch, herself also a first-degree cousin of professor Livrescu, recalls that "during the last years he was coming to Romania and was taking all the cousins to the restaurant. He liked us to be together. He was an extraordinarily gifted person and very altruist. When he was little, he was very currious and knew everything, so that I thought he would become very conceited, but it did not happen so; he was of a modesty..."

Moreover, during the [Second World] war, after the deportation to Transnistria of Librescu's father, his cousin was the one that hosted him. Both women have now thoughts for the wife of their cousin, who has cancer of the tyroid. None of them can go to the funeral because of their advanced age.

Matti Friedman (current ref-note 5) contains:

When Romania joined forces with Nazi Germany in World War II, he was first interned at a labor camp in Transnistria and then deported along with his family and thousands of other Jews to a ghetto in the Romanian city of Focsani, his son said.

The Times artlicle contains:

The son of Romanian Jewish parents, he was sent to a Soviet labour camp as a boy after his father was deported by the Nazis. He was repatriated to communist Romania only to be forced out of academia there for his Israeli sympathies. A personal intervention by Menachem Begin enabled him to emigrate with his wife to Israel, from where he visited the US on a sabbatical in 1986, and chose to stay. The appalling ironies of his murder by a crazed student after a life of such fortitude and generosity will not be lost on anyone who hears his story.

Could, anyone, please, make some compilation(s), so we can discuss it and put it into the article.

I'm sorry for calling him Rebrescu. I was in a hurry when I wrote the messages so it was just a mistake. I have noticed that the article says again that Liviu Librescu was deported to Transnistria. Is this really true? The article from Cotidianul was my source too. Maybe somebody should ask his cousin more details.

small expansion suggested[edit]

How about changing this portion of the article:

Librescu received many academic honors during his work at Virginia Tech, serving as chair or invited as a keynote speaker of several International Congresses on Thermal Stresses and receiving several honorary degrees. He was elected member of the Academy of Sciences of the Shipbuilding of Ukraine and Foreign Fellow of the Academy of Engineering of Armenia.

to something like this:

Librescu received many academic honors before and during his work at Virginia Tech. He served as chair or was invited as keynote speaker to several International Congresses on Thermal Stresses (a branch of Solid Mechanics) and other high-profile international conferences in various fields of Civil Engeneering, including Composite Science and Technology, Adaptive Structures and Technology. Sometimes the quality of his papers was additionally recognized by special diploma awards. He was elected member of the Academy of Sciences of the Shipbuilding of Ukraine (2000) and Foreign Fellow of the Academy of Engineering of Armenia (1999). He was a recipient of Doctor Honoris Causa of the Polytechnic Institute of Bucharest (2000), of the 1999 Dean’s Award for Excellence in Research, College of Engineering at Virginia Tech, and a laureate of the “Traian Vuia” Prize of the Romanian Academy (1972). He was a member of the Board of Experts of the Italian Ministry of Education, University and Scientific Research. He was awarded a Frank J. Maher Award for Excellence in Engineering Education (2005) and an ASME diploma expressing "the deep appreciation for the valuable services in advancing the engineering profession".

any suggestions? Feel free to edit directly my suggestion (one can trace it in "history" if necessary).

[3]

Hmm, I don't know who wrote the above, but great minds think alike. I saw this after I moved ==Honors and awards== into a separate section and now have added a part of the above. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I forgot to sign yesterday. Your edit of ==Honors and awards== is perfect by me, I only added "(2005)" for the last award in order to be consistent, since the year is mentioned for all other awards. You are right, whoever wrote that ASME award mention knew something we mortals don't. But on a closer look, it is more natural for a great mind like Librescu's to have a heroic instinct than for the average "coward" Joe.:Dc76 15:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kudos[edit]

I just want to commend everyone who's worked on this article, making it a complete biographical article that covers the entirety of his life & work, rather than treating all of his life as merely a footnote to his tragic, albeit heroic, death. Good job, everyone. --Yksin 01:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Fantastic, amazing job — my compliments to the editors. —GGreeneVa 03:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I concur, getting an article of this size and quality up so quickly was impressive. --Datacharge 05:55, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yet another in agreement. Earlier today I sent this article to a number of people close to me: "hey, look at this! already we have a very fine article on this person!" This is what I love about Wikipedia. Good work all, and cheers, Antandrus (talk) 05:57, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've been out of touch with the real world for the past few days and just learned about Mr. Librescu this morning. What a happy surprise to see that we already have an article, and a good one at that, about this heroic man!! Thanks so much to the editors! He is a real hero and I hope he is never forgotten. Rest in peace, Liviu!! :( K. Lásztocska 19:31, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See also[edit]

The two items currently under "See also", Aliyah and Bereavement in Judaism, do not seem appropriate. I am going to remove them unless someone can explain why they belong. Roger Hui 06:16, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for asking. Feel free to add more ==See also== links, but I would vote against removing these two. As a compromise, I would not oppose if they put/piped within the article.
1) L. Librescu with his family made aliyah in 1978. 2) Please read Chabad link regarding Bereavement in Judaism, that should answer potential questions, especially during these few days. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aliyah would be more appropriate as the target of "emigrate to Israel", and I'll look at incorporating Bereavement in Judaism somewhere in the text. My thinking is that 1/5/10/100 years from now, it wouldn't fit to have the "bereavement" link in "See also", just as there isn't such as link in the article on Yitzhak Rabin, for example. Roger Hui 12:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed that see also link. --Tom 13:30, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
OK. ←Humus sapiens ну? 03:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why he is here[edit]

Really, his academic career is not sufficient to warrant an article. His distinction, and why he does warrant an article, is that he was a HERO. A quick-thinking brave 76-year-old achieved distinction as he died. John Wheater 07:16, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So I take it you are an established expert in both heroism and academia. Oh wait, not at all, so please keep your opinions out of wikipedia and state them on message boards elsewhere.--Svetovid 09:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am truly sorry to have provoked this ad hominem outburst. I suppose everything we write in some way reflects our own opinions - but what I say above is actually pretty non-controversial. His heroism is demonstrated by the simple fact of risking, and giving, his life for those in his care, despite his age. As for his academic standing - is there an individual Wiki article on anyone of similar rank? I think not, though no doubt he would be mentioned as a contributor to his specialised field, should that attract an article. I should be glad to think you regretted your outburst, and hope that you will change your view that I should no longer contribute to Wikipedia. John Wheater 09:56, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
He easily passes WP:PROF#Criteria. ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh well, one last word (promise!), from me, the idiot (as described by Humus H, edited out but not by me - what is Wiki coming to, friends?). Of course he merits an article, but as HERO, not as an engineer, clever though he was. If he is remembered it will be because of his heroism, not his work. Hands up those who think we should have seen a Librescu article without the shootings. Friends, we are not a newspaper. John Wheater 13:06, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd agree he is best known as a hero rather than an engineer. However I believe we do have articles on engineers and scientists of similar rank to him. The following engineering/scientists articles indicate a notability that may be similar to Librescu's pre-VT shooting (note I'm not knowledgeable on these people): Addams Stratton McAllister, Rebecca Lynn, Michael Levitt, or Shrinivas Kulkarni. Admittedly most engineer articles seem to be people who invented something or started a major company, but I'm not sure either thing is a requirement.--T. Anthony 23:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We should have had such an article. There are probably thousands of other quiet professors we should have such articles about, and before they pass on, whether as heros, villians, or sleeping in their beds surrounded by loving great-grandchildren. htom 13:19, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We should have had such an article. WP:PROF says so. Open and shut case. The Wednesday Island 13:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There was no ad hominem. I just tried to point out, using irony, that original research and personal opinions (often the same thing) are not allowed in Wikipedia.--Svetovid 22:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
He easily passed as hero. And he passed as scientist too. Imformations in article confirm it unambiguously. --Cinik 13:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


" As for his academic standing - is there an individual Wiki article on anyone of similar rank?"

That is a list a mile long!

People who bash academia and or the people in it........well that speaks volumes!

Virginia Tech massacre template[edit]

Though I support retaining the template itself, I question its inclusion in this or any of the other bio articles of otherwise notable people who died in the shootings, as it gives too much emphasis within their bios to the manner of their death. Not to mention it seems very tasteless. --Yksin 18:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It should stay for information purposes. --Thus Spake Anittas 18:03, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Why? It provides no new information. The bio already says he died in Virginia Tech massacre. --Yksin 19:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think the point of having a template is to offer the user easier navigation through important milestones in the history of the event. To argue that such a template would be tasteless would not be a good argument. As for it giving it "too much "emphasis within their bios" -- I believe it does and I believe it should. The main subject in the articles of these people are their death and their relation to the tragedy. Altough their life achievements and career is covered, it is their death that attracted the main attention. This is my opinion, but I wouldn't put much effort in preserving the template. If you guys decide to delete it, then that's that for my part. --Thus Spake Anittas 20:09, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But couldn't this just be a list rather than a template? Calwatch 02:09, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jews not allowed to leave?[edit]

"However, under the Romanian communist regime, Jews were not allowed to leave."

This isn't actually true. Hundreds of thousands of Jews emigrated from Communist Romania and it was actually easier for Jews to leave than non-Jews to leave Romania due to a backstairs agreement in which Israel paid the cash-starved Communist regime for each Jew who was allowed to go to Israel. [4] Liviu Librescu was prevented from leaving not because he was Jewish but because he was a highly trained scientist and thus valuable to the regime. 74.14.96.28 01:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed that generalization, let's not over-politicize this bio. As usual, the truth is in the middle: behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War, Jews were often considered a security liability because of their connections to Jewish diaspora. OTOH, many were not allowed to emigrate to the West because of national security concerns such as brain drain. ←Humus sapiens ну? 03:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think this is worth mentioning in the article. Romania was the only Eastern bloc country at the time that held diplomatic relations with Israel. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect award rank[edit]

He received the Star of Romania at the rank of Great Cross, not Grand Cross. Someone with editing access ought to fix that error. Butterflytoflame 03:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. PRESS RELEASE (April 18, 2007)The President of Romania... states both "Grand Cross" and "High Cross" but not "Great Cross". ←Humus sapiens ну? 03:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, the Wikipedia article on the Star of Romania needs to be fixed. It states it as "Great Cross", and there is no mention of a "Grand Cross" on the page. (Yes, how lame am I, using this site as my reference? ;) ) Butterflytoflame 03:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is not lame at all- when there is a conflict between the information in different articles then it should be resolved. Someone just updated Steaua României, re-translating "mare" as great (they really have the same meaning). --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More kudos[edit]

The research and the timeliness of this page are impressive. Thank-you for all of your dedication. I agree, this American Hero deserves his own page. Nancy Cronk 18:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC) Nancy Cronk[reply]

I agree heartily, but must add a small correction. He is not an "American hero", nor an Israeli hero or a Romanian hero. He is a human hero, such a man as him and such a great soul cannot be constrained by national boundaries. K. Lásztocska 20:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You make a good point, both of you. Very very VERY much agreed. Butterflytoflame 05:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

Currently his name in Hebrew is ליביו ליברסקו. Transliterated it is "Liviu Librescu", and that is what he:wiki says as well. Our article has next to it "Levi ben Isidore". This needs to be sorted out somehow. Thoughts? ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:12, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Levi ben Isidore" isn't a Hebrew name per se, it's a religious patronymic. It probably doesn't belong in the article.--Pharos 21:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to correct/improve my latest edit. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... I just wonder if it's a little out of place. All Jews of any religious upbringing can have a patronymic, but as far as I can tell we only customarily use them in the articles of historical rabbis like Moshe ben Maimon. The reason Chabad put "Levi ben Isidore" on their site (and I believe they're the only source) is so people may use the name in prayers, which is certainly understandable, but I'm not sure it belongs here.--Pharos 07:56, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As an alternative, maybe we could include the names of his parents (we already know his father was Isidore), and maybe mention if he ever used the name "Levi" as a child (which is certainly possible).--Pharos 17:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. ←Humus sapiens ну? 05:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citizenship[edit]

According to his CV he is an American citizen. Can he be a dual citizen? If so shouldn't it be reflected in his wiki?Dland5others 01:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good eye. I guess he had dual citizenship. ←Humus sapiens ну? 03:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia really shouldn't guess. Until we have a reference, we shouldn't guess at the dual citizenship. Dachande 15:54, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But nor should we worry about it, ie if it appears in sources that he has citizenship in 2 countries we dont need to question that as it is a common occurrence inc in the US (Schwarzenegger et al), SqueakBox 17:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Another primary source[edit]

This Newsday article has some new biographical information from interviews with family members. Not sure if I'll have the time to add this info myself, but it seems like other editors would be interested in this in any case. Particularly interesting is the "secret" publishing of his 1976 book.--Pharos 06:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. ←Humus sapiens ну? 11:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Class room number[edit]

The reference cited in the last edit, [5], is not self-consistent. In one place it indicated that Librescu's classroom was room 204; in another it said room 208. Another New York Times article [6] referenced in the text says that it was room 204. This latter article rings truer (quotes from students in the room at the time, etc.) Roger Hui 23:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, slide #6 in the "cited reference" above gives a very curious numbering of the rooms in Norris Hall:

210 206204200
offices211207205

No building I have ever heard of would number the rooms like that. (Where's 208? 202? 209? etc.) I just don't find the graphics very credible. Roger Hui 23:27, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:WhisperToMe wrote: Other than room number issue, I fail to understand the inconsistencies - One died and eight who were known to be present survived. Answer in part: Because if they can not get such a simple thing like room number right (self-consistent), you wonder what else they got wrong. Roger Hui 03:46, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hui, I'll look at this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/interactives/vatechshootings/shootings_timeline.html and check the differences, if there are any. WhisperToMe 05:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm... it doesn't seem to be the same kind of map. Lemme keep searching... WhisperToMe 05:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found this: I found this: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/guns_in_america/html/virginia_tech/vt_shooting_intro.html

Go to "Campus Map" and you will find a new diagram. I am checking for details on Librescu's room. WhisperToMe 06:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

THAT source states: "Room 204

Solid Mechanics: The class has 23 registered students. Professor Liviu Librescu, 76, heroically attempts to block classroom door and is killed; a student is also killed. Several students jump out of windows." WhisperToMe 06:04, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is Room 204. See the class schedule and note where it was held. Calwatch 06:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In addition, many buildings have room numbers with no rhyme or reason. It seems to be common in academia. Dwinelle Hall at my alma mater was a classic example. Calwatch 07:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nazi concentration camp?[edit]

Librescu has now been placed in "Category:Nazi concentration camp survivors" again. However, according to the article Nazi concentration camps, "Prior to and during World War II, Nazi Germany maintained concentration camps..." According to the article on Librescu, he was "interned at a labor camp in Transnistria and later ... deported to a ghetto in the city of Focşani". Is there any evidence either of these was "maintained" by Nazi Germany? If not, why should the category stay? Biruitorul 03:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no strict requirement for German Nazi concentration camps vs. Nazi collaborator concentration camps. I think this is a proper category. This is already addressed in another section on talk. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Refs list seems broken[edit]

Anybody knows why the list of references seems to be broken and how to fix it? --NavarroJ 14:54, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Too much Chabad Info?[edit]

I feel like this page contains a bit too much about what Chabad/Lubavitch are doing/have done. Is it really relevant that 2 Rabbi's traveled hours to bury him or that his wife claims his favorite commandmant was to light friday night candles? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.242.91.36 (talk) 18:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I have removed the bit about 2 rabbis. Since he considered important to light Shabbat candles, this seems to be a part of his legacy and IMHO should be mentioned. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Romania flag is incorrect[edit]

It should be this one: http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagine:Flag_of_Romania.svg

Please see the flag in the article Kingdom of Romania. That is where he was born. I've fixed the infobox to say Kingdom of Romania. ←Humus sapiens ну? 06:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, that is not a 100% rule, but case by case. For example Estonians do not say they were born in USSR, but in all documents Eist estonia as their place of birth, etc. So do others from former USSR, Yougoslavia and Czechslovakia. Those born before 1917 did not list Russian Empire as their birth country but USSR, while those in emigre would declare logicaly Russian Empire or simply Russia. If you think in Livrescu's case it is relevant for his life/career that he was in the Kingdom of Romania, not just Romania - then that is the only solid argument, in my oppionion. I don't know much about him to put my word. If you also don't know, just think wat's more logical, and clear for readers.:Dc76 19:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

His national consciousness[edit]

I protest against the opening line of this article, which reads:

Liviu Librescu (Hebrew: ליביו ליברסקו) (August 18, 1930 – April 16, 2007) was a Romanian-born and educated Israeli-American scientist and academic whose major research fields were aeroelasticity and aerodynamics.

This site confirms that Liviu, was in fact a Romanian-Israeli professor, but the opening line says that he was born in Romania; however, how do we know that he didn't count himself as a little bit, Romanian? Both his names are Romanian, not Jewish and not American. Also, where it says "educated Israeli-American scientist," it makes it sound as if he educated in Israel and America, but he was educated in Romania and his whole personally and career was formed there! I would like a compromise where his Romanian side is not downplayed by the editors. --Thus Spake Anittas 20:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I believe "Israeli-American" refers to his citizenship at the time of his death. Would your concern about not downplaying his Romanian education be satisfied by saying "Romanian-born and -educated" instead of "Romanian-born and educated"? Roger Hui 20:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would like more focus on his Romanian side. Time article calls his parents for Romanian Jews. --Thus Spake Anittas 20:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Could you elaborate on your proposal? ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As the one responsible for inserting the word "educated" in that opening sentence (first here, then here), let me say that, as hopefully my second edit made it clear, my intention was precisely to accentuate the fact that Librescu was not just born in Romania, but got all his education there (including BS, MS, and PhD degrees), and indeed spent the first 48 years of his life there -- which, by any measure, is a big chunk of anyone's life! Now, I'm not sure how others would read that sentence -- I don't really see any ambiguity in there -- but if there is, yes, the above suggestion of saying "Romanian-born and -educated" would clear things up completely, at least in that regard. See what you guys think -- I for one would be happy with that modification. Turgidson 22:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I guess that modification is the best compromise I can get at the moment. I have emailed the editor of the BBC article and asked him (since he knew Librescu, personally) if Librescu considered himself as partially Romanian. If I get a reply and if there are clear sources on this, then further more can be changed, such as a share Romanian-Israeli identity, with an American citizenship. Two articles already hint on that, but they are not clear enough and thus cannot be considered as a source that supports that affirmation. --Thus Spake Anittas 22:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a concrete question: Did Liviu Librescu renounce his Romanian citizenship upon leaving Romania in 1978? As far as I know, that was an option -- some people who left did, some didn't. Either way, this could give an indication as to what kind of ties he kept with the country of birth. Turgidson 22:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is irrelevant. More than 1 million Romanians denounced their citizenship, but they still remain Romanians. This was meant to be a serious discussion. --Thus Spake Anittas 04:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Whether this is relevant or irrelevant is your personal opinion. And I do resent the tone of your reply. This was meant to be a civil discussion. Turgidson 17:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of understanding the difference between citizenship and national consciousness, which can be two different things. --Thus Spake Anittas 17:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A quick examination of Librescu's CV indicates that his relationship with Romania after his departure in 1978 must have been cordial, at the very least. e.g. he was given an honorary degree by the Polytechnic of Bucharest in 2000 (p. 2), and at Virginia Tech several of his research associates and visiting scholars were from Romanian universities (p. 59). Roger Hui 05:16, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's my reading, too. Turgidson 17:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Romanian-born and -educated Israeli-American scientist and academic" is the only reasonable reading of "Romanian-born and educated Israeli-American scientist and academic". After all, are there any uneducated scientists and academics?  :-) Roger Hui 22:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, another reason why the current text sounds a bit awkward. It should be changed to your suggestion. You can go ahead and do so, as it seems others support that suggestion, as well. --Thus Spake Anittas 22:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yom Hashoah[edit]

This was incorrectly reverted. I can see why one might think this, but in fact, the Hebrew calendar site states Yom HaShoah started "Sat, 14 April 2007 at sundown." See [7] The papers that stated otherwise were in error.--Beth Wellington 20:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The observance of Yom HaShoah changes in years when observance on 27 Nisan would be in conflict with the Jewish Sabbath. Israel observed Yom HaShoah on Sunday PM/Monday AM this year.--Pharos 20:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ARTICLE SHOULD BE DELETED[edit]

After looking at this page: Waleed Shaalan and seeing taht it is being considered for deletion, I see no reason to leave this one.68.211.145.65 03:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What!!![edit]

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!why would you delete tis article? he was a hero........a holocaust survivor...when i first heard about him i was like so sad... he should be known by others for what he has done..he saved many lives you know!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.158.59 (talk) 22:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article was mentioned in a news source[edit]

I forgot what template to add. An English-language article from Tiraspol Times mentions Wikipedia as a source and indeed, some passages look very familiar. ←Humus sapiens ну? 02:30, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ROFL! That site is a joke and a propaganda tool. Its owner or contributor was banned from Wiki for sockpuppeting. See User:William Mauco. That whole site has an agenda and is not able to write objectively. Just look at the start of the article: it is supposed to be about Librescu, but instead, it hints about the politics between Moldova and Transnistria.

Liviu Librescu had survived deportation from Romania to the killing fields of World War II's Transnistria. The territory was never part of Romania or of any independent Moldovan state.

My question is: how is it relevant to Librescu whether Transnistria was ever a part of Romania? Heck, how is it relevant to Romania? Can someone answer me that? Not to mention that Librescu was never in Transnistria...only his father (as I understood it).

The article on Librescu...err, Transnistria, continues:

At no time in history was this territory ever part of Romania or of any independent Moldovan state, having also been majority Slavic and a traditional part of Russia or Ukraine.

And so it continues. Anyone can make a site that will look somehow professional and try to use it as a source for Wikipedia. --Thus Spake Anittas 08:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I had no idea. Are you sure there is a requirement for a news agency/article that mentions Wikipedia as a source to comply with NPOV? ←Humus sapiens ну? 04:08, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt such a requirement exists, because a great amount of articles are POV. Perhaps it would fall under a criteria which goes against sources that are not deemed credible, but you won't find any resistance from me on this one. Go ahead and add it. --Thus Spake Anittas 22:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Restoring criticism of implicit racism[edit]

(Removed personal attacks (see WP:NPA) by User:68.211.145.65)

Notice that the non-white victims at VTech had their articles deleted but not the Caucs. Guess it's obvious that this is a White Supremacist site! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.211.145.65 (talk) 12:20, 27 April 2007 (UTC). WP:N makes the policy very clear. There is no mention of race in that policy. Are you claiming the policy is racist? Or are you claiming that the policy wasn't correctly followed? The Wednesday Island 15:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC) You're right; the Jews and Christian victims were left. Somehow, though, all the Muslim ones were removed. But they were no doubt sympathizers of terrorism in the minds of most of the bigots (Jimmy Wales, et al) who run this site! 68.211.145.65 01:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I think you didn't read what I said. WP:N makes the policy clear: there are rules about who gets a Wikipedia page and who doesn't. Academics like Librescu come under WP:PROF; he would have been eligible for a page whether or not he had been involved in the shooting. Merely being shot in a massacre does not make a person eligible for a page. A person's skin colour or religion are not among the eligibility criteria; of course, it's entirely possible that there's some institutionalised racism within the system, but you have so far failed to show that such a bias is the cause of Librescu's page remaining and Shaalan's page being deleted, and not because the existing eligibility criteria had been met during Librescu's life and not during Shaalan's. The Wednesday Island 15:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

coughWP:DENYcough. Natalie 18:04, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I just find it kind of difficult to tell when someone's trolling and someone's just finding it hard to understand why Wikipedia policy is as it is. If you think User:68.211.145.65's just a troll, I'll ignore zir from now on then. The Wednesday Island 19:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prominence[edit]

While I don't want to diminish his academic achievements in any way, it's clear that his prominence is chiefly due to his act of heroism during the Virginia Tech massacre. I think the lead paragraph should be re-prioritized to reflect that fact, and his posthumous award from Romania. Thoughts? Ronnotel (talk) 04:55, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

agree The only reason most people are interested in him is because of his actions during the Virginia Tech Massacre. Rooot (talk) 17:50, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wording[edit]

This sentence: "His son Joe, to BBC the day after Librescu's death, said his father did not wish to talk much about that period of his life." is awkward. I know there is a debate raging in the FAC about comma usage, but this sentence needs to be reworded. I have heard BBC referred to in this situation as "the BBC." Thoughts? Rooot (talk) 07:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would remove any mention of the BBC in the main line. It's already in the citation so it's redundant. Ronnotel (talk) 12:17, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the statement attributed to son Joe (to BBC) is uncited, and I can't find it. Did you see it somewhere? I'm tempted to delete it. I've rearranged the statement attributed to his wife for better flow. --Sfmammamia (talk) 17:58, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I messed with it a little. Rooot (talk) 21:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your change doesn't solve the problem of lack of cite. Why not just cut the sentence? --Sfmammamia (talk) 22:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fine with me. Rooot (talk) 05:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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