User talk:Antandrus

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Greetings, welcome to my talk page. Please leave me new messages at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new section at the bottom. I usually notice messages soon. I like to keep threads all in one place, so if you left a message here I will respond to it here; if I left you a message on your talk page I likely am watching it and will respond there.

Demons watch over this page. Shiny ones. Wat Phra Kaew, Bangkok, Thailand, 2014. (Garuda, the mount of Lord Vishnu)
Haec dies quam fecit Dominus. Exultemus et laetemur in ea.

Talk page archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39


Hi there. Welcome to Wikipedia. Thanks for your note at Wikipedia:New user log.

I'm sure there are plenty of things you can contribute to here. You might want to check out List of classical music composers, List of musical topics, and Wikipedia:Requested articles/music. The last one, especially, has a lot of suggestions for articles that don't exist yet, but that someone would like to see.

Here are some links you might find useful:

You should also feel free to drop me a question on my talk page. I'll answer if I'm here.

Happy editing, Isomorphic 18:23, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Why did you remove my writing?[edit]

I am the author of the copy-pasted work from Moglen's wiki. Can you please stop deleting it, this is for a final assignment for his class. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaa2204 (talkcontribs) 15:32, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Because the text is not in compliance with cc-by-sa. Look at the disclaimer at the bottom of the page [1] -- it would have to be marked as 'authored by Eben Moglen' in order to be licensed under cc-by-sa -- else it is 'All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors' which does not comply with our copyright policy. The disclaimer on the bottom of the page needs to be updated if you want to copy-paste without the 'Eben Moglen' attribution. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 16:17, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
As you can clearly see, this was written by a contributing author, me, not by Eben Moglen. It's not my website so I can't control the disclaimer but the work is my own, therefore I have every right to post it on the wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaa2204 (talkcontribs) 16:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi Antandrus (and Jaa2204). I've left a note with further explanation at User talk:Jaa2204. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 16:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)


That's my new Middle English word of the day. I imagine it's closely related to the modern "piss-ant," now that I think of it. Acroterion (talk) 01:33, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

I do believe you are right. Formic acid and all. It's a fun word. From Desert Solitaire: "Don't actually care for ants. Neurotic little pismires. Compared to ants the hairy scorpion is a beast of charm, dignity and tenderness." 01:35, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy Holidays[edit]

Piero della Francesca - Nativity - WGA17620.jpg

May you have very Happy Holidays, Antandrus...

and a New Year filled with peace, joy, and beautiful music!

Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 18:05, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! And the happiest of holidays to you and yours as well. Love that Piero della Francesca. Antandrus (talk) 22:04, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

L.A. event on Tuesday, January 20[edit]

Wik-Ed Women editing session (1/20, 6-10pm)

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

Please join us at an event this coming Tuesday: the third Wik-Ed Women editing session will take place on January 20 from 6pm to 10pm at the Los Angeles Contemporary Archive downtown. This series of informal get-togethers is designed to encourage Los Angeles women-in-the-arts (though all are welcome!) to contribute their expertise to Wikipedia, specifically expanding content about women artists. Please RSVP here if you plan to attend.

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:06, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Join our Facebook group here! To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.


That image you took of the gold characters in the image at top is very cool...nice job!--MONGO 01:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! It was an awesome trip. Did some performing, saw some cool things, took over a thousand pictures, got away from work. My girlfriend was there for work, I was visiting her. And hey, congratulations on the decade. Antandrus (talk) 02:02, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Very nice...sounds like you had a good time. Have you posted similar images online?--MONGO 02:33, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Not yet -- I was just starting to look at them this weekend for possible use on Wikipedia. Trying to find things without illustrations is increasingly difficult -- heck, a lot of the articles have gigantic galleries already. Antandrus (talk) 03:09, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

CITEVAR redux[edit]

Sigh! I do wish the College of Editors would assemble and decide on a uniform citation standard for all Wikipedia articles. In the meantime, thank you for your edit and comment at Symphony. The identical situation has arisen at Aquarius (opera), with perhaps even less justification.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 05:18, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome ... I think the problem is with the tag itself, the generic {{Citations}} tag:
Since it specifically demands inline citations rather than just, um, "citations". As its name suggests it would. Antandrus (talk) 16:13, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Ack, it's a redirect to "no footnotes". Which is a different thing. Can o' worms. Antandrus (talk) 16:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I love Article of Improvement for the day. It's so great when the whole community can come together and demand a footnote that Beethoven's 9th includes a chorus. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 19:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Ha ha ha ha!!! I didn't notice that until you fixed it. I remember an argument some years ago in which a stubborn editor insisted that the key of Beethoven's Fifth needed a citation, since "C Minor" was not in the title. Antandrus (talk) 21:23, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Laugh if you must, but it was an awkward sentence to tag (my fault). The intention was not to demand proof that the symphony includes a chorus, but that there was no precedent for choirs in pieces titled "symphony". This was in conjunction with a "contradiction" tag, since the article had earlier discussed the sinfonie of such late-16th and early 17th-century composers as Gabrieli and Schütz. The problem has now been resolved by an edit from Michael Cuthbert, who probably has little idea of the edit history of the Symphony article, which has been long and at times bitter. Indeed, I am waiting with bated breath for one particular editor to discover that the sentence he fought tooth and claw to retain in the lede has just been blithely snatched away (not a moment too soon as far as I am concerned, but opinions will differ).—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:54, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Apologies, Jerome -- though we sometimes differ on the amount of citation we find necessary, you certainly have good reasons for all of them, and indeed the part about calling using a chorus unprecedented needed a context to have it make sense. As far as the other edits, people can revert; I tend not to get in fights about such things. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 07:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

LA edit-a-thons on February 14, 17, and 21[edit]

Redondo Loves Wikipedia (2/14), Wik-Ed Women (2/17), and Unforgetting LA at the Getty (2/21)!
Getty Museum (3334818780).jpg

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

The LA Wikipedia community has three events in mid-February -- please consider attending!

First, we have a Valentine's Day edit-a-thon appropriately named Redondo Loves Wikipedia, which will take place at the Redondo Beach Public Library from 10am to 1pm on Saturday, February 14. Join library staff, the Redondo Beach Historical Society, and others to help improve Wikipedia's coverage of Redondo Beach!

Second, we have a Wik-Ed Women editing session on Tuesday, February 17 from 6pm to 10pm at the Los Angeles Contemporary Archive downtown. This series of informal get-togethers is designed to encourage Los Angeles women-in-the-arts (though all are welcome!) to contribute their expertise to Wikipedia, specifically expanding content about women artists.

Third, we have an Unforgetting LA event put on by East of Borneo in collaboration with the Getty Research Institute. Come help improve Wikipedia's coverage of LA design and architecture, and have an awesome free day at the museum -- parking will be validated for edit-a-thon participants! If you'd like to use particular books from GRI's great collection, be sure to email before 2/13 (instructions at event page).

And be sure to check out our main meetup page, because we already have three SoCal events scheduled for early March!

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:58, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Join our Facebook group here! To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

More block evasion[edit]

You blocked an IP sock of a blocked user, the same user apparently uses more IPs doing exactly the same edits [2].Jeppiz (talk) 00:16, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

My spidey-sense says this isn't a new user. No complaint about the block, just immediate sockpuppeting. Antandrus (talk) 00:36, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

My edits[edit]

I edited the page Antonio Vivaldi by correcting typos and adding to intro of the page. What I added was to the statement "Composed many instrumental concertos for violin and a variety of other instruments" I added "Composed over Five hundred instrumental concertos" You then messaged me saying that you removed my edits and saying that they appeared to be vandalism. Why do you consider this as vandalism? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonio Bononcini (talkcontribs) 19:31, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Your edit summary for your last edit was "I added capitalization and punctuation mistakes" -- which you did. You added mistakes. Your previous edits are equally problematic: "Fixed a typo" did no such thing, but added the WP:PEACOCK words and opinion "the Greatest Italian Baroque composer and ..." And then there are bunch more. What are you doing? Antandrus (talk) 21:42, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

I corrected typos and my comments as "Greatest Italian baroque composer" are opinions as are all the comments on his music, the page says "one of the greatest baroque composers"you didn't flag whoever that was for adding opinions. Neither did you flag the person who wrote "he is recognized as one of the greatest Baroque composers" thats an opinion as well what is wrong with adding such opinions? I just added facts and corrected typos for example the page said "employed from 1703 to 1715 and from 1723 to 1740" to which I added "employed from 1703 to 1715 and from 1723 to 1740 a total of forty years". Is that vandalism? Did I put in incorrect dates? No. Did I delete previous work? No. Did I add any incorrect statements? No. Did I delete anything? No. The words I added were just descriptions like "He is known mainly for composing many instrumental concertos" I added "He is known mainly for composing over five hundred instrumental concertos" which is more descriptive and is a fact and I believe this was better than the original. I would not consider anything I added as vandalism. What are YOU doing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonio Bononcini (talkcontribs) 23:39, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Stop being obtuse. Why did you deliberately add mistakes with the edit summary of "I added capitalization and punctuation mistakes". Answer my question. Antandrus (talk) 23:53, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

WHAT spelling mistakes did I add? If I wrote "I added capitalization and punctuation misteaks." It was an accident but I did not add any spelling misteaks to the page so WHY did you send me a warning about vandalization. Or was it just because I gave an incorrect description of my edits? That hardly constitutes vandalization. If I wanted to vandalize I would have done it by now, or don't you think so. I have vandalized nothing you have no basis for deleting my edits and I use my previous rebuttles as my arguments. Also capitalizing the word "Greatest" as I did was not a spelling error as in this instance it was used as a title, so it's not a spelling error. I added no spelling or punctuation mistakes, so what did I vandalize? Did delete dates? No. Add incorrect dates? No. Did I erase anything? No. What did I do which constitiutes vandalizm. The most I did if anything that would be debatable is incorrectly describe my edits but other than that I ask again, what did I vandalize? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonio Bononcini (talkcontribs) 07:58, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

There are lots of differences of opinion and/or misunderstandings at Wikipedia. I replaced the message with a welcome in the hope that there will no longer be a need to discuss the past. You might check that other message on your talk page about WP:SIGN. Also, please make sure your edit summaries match the edits. Johnuniq (talk) 08:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you ;D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonio Bononcini (talkcontribs) 18:14, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


Hi Antandrus! Thank you for welcoming all of the newbies who participated in the Art+Feminism Edit-A-Thon at the University of California, Santa Barbara yesterday. It was a very successful event! Arthistorygrrl (talk) 23:16, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome! I was watching over it as it unfolded (in case you needed any administrative help -- but you didn't need any). I'm quite nearby, and just tickled that there was a Wiki-event in Santa Barbara. Congratulations on all the great work, and thank you for organizing it! Hey, did it look like any of them were interested in continuing? That's the big issue, if we're going to make progress on closing the gender gap. I'd love it if some were enthused enough to want to write and edit more. All the best -- Antandrus (talk) 01:17, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

A coffee for your thoughts[edit]

Cup-o-coffee-simple.svg I had a great time reading your observations on Wikipedia. And the nearer to the end, the better they were. Iry-Hor (talk) 21:19, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! I'm always glad when someone enjoys them ... they were fun to write. Maybe more coming. :) All the best, Antandrus (talk) 22:23, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

LA edit-a-thons on March 18 (tomorrow!) and 28[edit]

Wadewitz memorial edit-a-thon (3/18), Redondo Loves Wikipedia (3/28)
Adrianne Wadewitz-6727.jpg

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

The LA Wikipedia community has two events in this second half of March -- please consider attending!

First, there is a memorial edit-a-thon in honor of the prolific LA Wikipedian Adrianne Wadewitz, which is being held downtown on March 18 (tomorrow!) from noon to 8pm as a part of the American Society for Eighteenth-Century Studies' annual conference. Please drop by to contribute your own work or teach other users how to write for Wikipedia.

Second, there will be an event at the Redondo Beach Public Library (following up on last month's session), in collaboration with the Redondo Beach Historical Society. Please join us from 10am to noon on Saturday, March 28 at the main branch of the Redondo Beach Public Library!

I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:39, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Join our Facebook group here! To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

Tim Page -- grateful for your efforts toward balance[edit]

Thanks so much for your seriousness. I thought that my full letter to Wikipedia might be helpful.

My name is Tim Page and I am the author or editor of more than 20 books. I worked at the New York Times, Newsday and finally the Washington Post, where I won the Pulitzer Prize for Criticism in 1997. I am currently a full professor in two departments at the University of Southern California.

And yet, due to the repeated intrusions of two demonstrably hostile editors of my page, one would think that all I've done in a career that stretches back almost 50 years, is beat up on all young prodigies and sass back to the late Washington D.C. mayor Marion Barry.

I would suggest that these two editors -- SSilvers and especially SchroCat -- have determined to give undue weight to two minor events in my career, with the specific intent of distorting my career

In the first instance, SSilvers (who is the editor of all the pages devoted to the prodigy Jackie Evancho) has been trying to turn me into a kiddie-stomper for a single article I wrote about Ms. Evancho in December 2011. OK, it was a negative article but I think a fair reader would glean that it was mostly about the music business and the way it eats its young -- a warning against premature exposure. Others may differ, of course, but to turn this one article (buttressed with a short paragraph in a 2000-word reflection on the highs and lows of a career in music criticism) into some kind of personal creed is preposterous. If somebody were to write a 3000 word piece on my work, it might have a place, but I've written hundreds of very positive reviews of young artists and to make this the centerpiece of my career is a clear case of original research -- and shoddy research at that.

I'm always uncomfortable touching up my Wikipedia page but I've done it on a couple of occasions, beginning when somebody suggested I wrote a book called "Descent into Madness: My Struggle with Homosexuality" back in October of 2008. (The fact is that I am a straight man, divorced twice, with three children and to refer to my Asperger Syndrome as "madness" is clearly slander.) And so, in 2012, I felt I needed to defend my work and add the names of some of the artists I had nurtured when they were very young: I included Hilary Hahn, Evgeny Kissin, and Midori (all teenaged when I first reviewed them -- indeed, I wrote the very first major profile of the last of these). There was some back and forth editorial discussion but we finally came out with what seemed a fair piece -- hardly fawning but with no errors of distortions of fact.

As such, it came as a surprise when I visited the page a month or two back and found that SSilvers had restored the material about Evancho, including my distinctly grotesque image of her onstage persona that I chose deliberately to make a point about what Evancho's handlers were doing to a talented child. At the same time, all the other prodigies I had supported were removed from the piece, leaving the impression that my dearest wish was to stomp all over child stars. Add to this the fact that SSilvers had called me a "thoughtless, nasty man" in talk pages on Wikipedia. As a journalist, I would recuse myself from writing about anybody I disliked so much, and to simply stick this in as the longest paragraph of my biography was clearly malicious.

I did my best to correct matters and though I'd found an ally in SchroCat who removed the corrections and wrote a frosty note, but DID explain the Wiki policy on sourcing. He said he neither knew nor cared who had written the Evancho restoration (this is beginning to sound like Tudor politics!) and said he had no time to make the corrections himself, but seemed a decent enough person. So I learned how to put the references into the piece, spending most of an afternoon on this and not doing a terribly good job on it but hoping that we had finally managed a fair appraisal.

He took out almost all of the corrections (some of the newspapers are no longer allowing early work to be presented without cost) and then added a long paragraph about an unfortunate blow-up I had with the late Marion Barry in 2007. Talk about undue weight! Barry was a controversial man with many supporters and just as many detractors -- I had been bullied by his staff when I asked them to take my address off their mailing list, and I overreacted, after which I apologized. Bingo -- end of story, until SchroCat decided to bring it up seven years later. If you wanted to mention everybody who has ever written negatively about Marion Barry, you'd have to expand your bandwidth -- and now this is the longest paragraph in my biography! Moreover, my leave of absence with the Post had been set up LONG before this took place.

Look -- I love Wikipedia. It's one of the great joys of on-line life. I go to it at least two or three times a day. But this sort of attack really isn't cricket. I'm not going to compare it to the Siegenthaler affair -- there is at least some truth in what these editors have chosen to glorify. But it's a little like a bio of Roman Polanski that talks mostly about his long-ago rape allegation and ignores the fact that he made "Chinatown."

I'm embarrassed to have to complain, but the world now takes Wikipedia very seriously and I'd rather have nothing at all than this sort of nastiness, which is absolutely unrepresentative of my person and my work. I'm a tough guy to write about -- one needs to be conversant in film ("a Day With Timmy Page"), music (my work in criticism, radio and record production), literature (I restored the novelist Dawn Powell to public attention), autism (I wrote about my struggles with Asperger Syndrome in "Parallel Play") and education to get a glimpse of my activity. I don't know if you have anybody who can do that -- maybe you should just remove me from the library. But I hope you will take this seriously, as I feel mangled by a huge and powerful organization that I mostly love and respect.


Tim Page

Thanks so much for your decency. I never would have even posted except that what these people wrote was so charged with UNDUE WEIGHT and ORIGINAL RESEARCH. SchroCat said that he'd never had anything to do with SSilvers, not realizing that this sort of material carries a history. Poor guy -- I wish him well, but will not continue to tolerate his UNDUE emphasis on my blowup at Barry without a long examination of my prose and aesthetics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:31, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Resurrection of Southern California Task Force[edit]

After moving from Los Angeles County to Kern County to San Luis Obispo County, I am finally realizing that there is life in California outside of L.A. and San Francisco, where I lived and grew up. Oh, I have also lived in San Diego, San Bernardino, San Joaquin, Yolo and Sacramento counties, and I earned my undergraduate degree in Riverside County. I am trying to breathe life into the Southern California Task Force, and I hope you will join me. Could you visit our list of participants at the other end of this link and update your description of what you are interested in doing for us, assuming that you still want to be in the mix, that is.

In recompense, I will buy you a drink during the Wikipedia Week I am planning for Morro Bay on the Central Coast in July. Yours sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 18:07, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Cool! -- thanks for trying to wake up the project. I just updated my description. Antandrus (talk) 19:08, 3 May 2015 (UTC)