Talk:Matthew Shepard

• Talk:Matthew Shepard/Archive 1

Get this to GA or FA

I have access to a university library and its associated databases. Last year, I considered the 3 highest profile articles in WP:LGBT that should be improved are the Stonewall riots, Harvey Milk, and Matthew Shepard. I've brought two of those articles to FA. I've offered a couple times at WT:LGBT to send as much information to any editors interested in improving this article to get it to GA or FA. In light of Virginia Foxx's stunning dumbassery, it seems it's even more important to make sure this article is accurate without question.

My offer is still open. There would be an incredible amount of reading and copy editing involved. I will assist. Think about it and let me know if you're interested. --Moni3 (talk) 13:17, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

The fence.

So yeah..where in Laramie is the fence seen in all the photos? And yes, I do need an answer on this. --24.21.148.155 (talk) 04:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Most people do ask questions because they want/need an answer. Try this [1] website. Apparently the location is not easy to find. Wperdue (talk) 04:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)wperdue

According to the text of the Wikipedia article the fence itself has long since been removed by the property owner. Is this not the case?? KDS4444^Talk 18:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Move back and keep to Matthew Shepard

Per this archived discussion. Do it now, please. No consensus to move it, and very good reason not to. --Moni3 (talk) 23:23, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I moved it, since that discussion seemed to indicate that was the consensus.  :) -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:34, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I've protected it from future moves. If there is consensus to move it, it can be unprotected. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 00:00, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

20 / 20 interview given WP:UNDUE weight.

It was in the news for a little while, but ultimately the 20/20 interview is just one human interest story on a subject that has attracted a huge amount of coverage from many more credible sources. Why does it have an entire section to itself? I think that a sentence mentioning it would be sufficient. If it is going to be given so much weight and prominence, it needs something to justify it -- something showing the wide-ranging impact that it had, or something along those lines. --Aquillion (talk) 04:18, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

2008 interviews of Aaron McKinney

The source for the section "The Laramie Project: Ten Years Later" Interviews [2] essentially rests on one AP article that reports that the script is "condensed" from the notes of the interview by Greg Pierotti. Although I believe that McKinney made the comments as indicated, we need better reliable sources for this. It's important since it refutes the 20/20 claim that potentially drugs were the motive for the murder rather than homophobia. Therefore it needs to be more verifiable than it is and I have to agree with HandThatFeeds's removal of the section as it currently reads. — Becksguy (talk) 19:01, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yellowstone rape allegation

How notable do we think this incident is? AniMate^draw 06:54, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

• The relevant information can be found in this Newsweek article. AniMate^draw 07:04, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Not very. It's an allegation, not much more than a rumor. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 14:41, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Newsweek is a reliable source, which takes it beyond rumor... which is not the same thing as making it relevant. And it certainly doesn't justify the POV terms being introduced in the version someone keeps trying to post. (There's nothing in the article that says that he tugged "incessantly" on the arm; the bartender may have lost patience after three tugs with big spaces between them.) -- Nat Gertler (talk) 18:58, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree. The way it is being introduced is extremely POV and ignores some important facts. He was apparently quite intoxicated with his new antidepressants interacting poorly with alcohol. The bartender also apparently apologized immediately after the incident, and Matthew withdrew the allegations himself. AniMate^draw 19:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

A rumor in a reliable source is no less a rumor. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 02:07, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure at what point things stop being a "rumor" for you. In this case, we have multiple witnesses, and there are both hospital and police records. - Nat Gertler (talk) 02:25, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't belong in the article for several reasons:

1. It's not relevant to the murder since there is no direct connection. Different time, different place, different circumstances. Attempting to connect would be synthesis.
2. It seems to be an attempt to blame the victim. That is, he wouldn't have been beaten up and murdered if he didn't come on to guys. However, testimony was that he was approached at the Fireside Lounge by Henderson and McKinney the night he was beaten by them and left to die.
3. It also seems to be a roundabout way to attempt to support the "gay panic" defense that was rejected at the trials.
4. It's a smear that has only one source in the article. Even if it was relevant, it would need multiple reliable sources.
5. It's POV, and the content both misquotes and adds text not in the single source provided.

Bottom line: The content doesn't belong in the article. — Becksguy (talk) 23:26, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

The second issue is the edit warring by User:Policefact. This content was first added on October 23, the first edit of a new user, Policefact. That user re-added essentially the same content nine time over the next four days, thus engaging in an edit war. This user has made 19 edits in total, 14 of them in this article, and without any talk page dialog. This behavior is very clearly and obviously edit warring. Has a WP:AN3 notice board incident been filed? — Becksguy (talk) 03:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

No, but I've left messages on his talk page informing him of the three revert rule and informing him of this discussion. If he inserts the edit again without participating here, I'll report him. AniMate^draw 04:33, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't you think he should be reported now, as he reinserted the Yellowstone content twice after you posted the uw-3rr warning. That would certainly be more than sufficient for WP:AVI blocking in that noticeboard. He was also warned for POV content in another article. All this within four days. I would have filed, but have not filed at the 3RR noticeboard before and it's quite different from AVI. — Becksguy (talk) 14:36, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

He's a new user. Sure he's pushing an agenda, but he's still new. Did he continue to edit war after the notice? Yes. Did any of the people who reverted attempt to discuss his edit with him? No. This should have been brought to the talk page long before I did it and that is my fault. When new users edit war, it's usually because they don't understand how Wikipedia works. I've given him information on how it works and where to address his grievances. If he decides to resume edit warring, I'll take it to the appropriate noticeboard. AniMate^draw 18:32, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Good point Ani. I was so involved in the David Shankbone brouhaha that I didn't see this history. So I didn't respond early enough either. Lets see what happens. — Becksguy (talk) 14:44, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Like the man said it's a newsweek article and considering that we list the elementary school he attended this is hardly TMI. --Policefact (talk) 03:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

No one is saying that it doesn't belong because it's too much information. Becksguy puts forth some really relevant reasons for not including the information. If you could give us something beyond "it was in Newsweek" it would be helpful. AniMate^draw 03:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I've never claimed some one raped me let alone claimed that someone raped me and had a hospital test prove my claim untrue has this ever happened to you or anyone you know? --Policefact (talk) 04:25, 29 October 2009 (UTC)"

You might find the List of fallacies handy. It appears that you will be using them in your arguments. Wperdue (talk) 05:12, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

@Policefact -- So your argument is that this was mentioned in Newsweek and neither of us have ever claimed incorrectly that we had been raped? AniMate^draw 05:21, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

If you don't mind I'd like the question answered before I continue. --Policefact (talk) 07:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Your question is wholly irrelevant to the issue. Personal experiences are not reliable sources. Wperdue (talk) 16:50, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree. My personal experiences aren't relevant here, especially since you have no way of verifying if my response is true or not. Can we focus on the article and reasons for or against inclusion of this material. AniMate^draw 21:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I also fully agree with Wperdue & AniMate. Personal experiences are irrelevant as original research and also not verifiable, as important as they might be to an editor here. This talk page is only for improving the associated article, as it say at the top of this page, and per WP:TPG. Please lets talk about the article. — Becksguy (talk) 21:56, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

qui tacet consentit. --Policefact (talk) 02:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

There has hardly been an abundance of silence. You just didn't get the answers you wanted. There is a big difference. I have reverted your edits and, as you have already been warned for edit warring, I suggest you get a consensus before re-adding the material. Wperdue (talk) 04:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I should be flattered that my personal experiences are so important to you, but they really have nothing to do with editing this article. If you insert the material again without obtaining a clear consensus here, I will report you for edit warring.AniMate^draw 04:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Rather than talk about talking you could just answer the question. --Policefact (talk) 05:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Your question to me is irrelevant. My personal experiences have nothing to do with your edit. AniMate^draw 05:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

So the event I asked you about has never happend to you then? --Policefact (talk) 05:17, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't say that. I said I wouldn't discuss my personal life. Please focus on the article. AniMate^draw 05:19, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

You said that your "personal experiences have nothing to do with [my] edit" So I'm going to have to assume you've never claimed some one raped you let alone claimed that someone raped you and then had a hospital test prove your claim untrue nor has this ever happened to you know. (congratulations)

When this sort of thing happens it does make the News however. [3]

Now if a false rape report is newsworth enough to be reported on CNN It's fair to say it also deserves mention in an article on a persons life. --Policefact (talk) 05:30, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Assume whatever you like about me. However, I disagree with your opinion, and so has every other editor who has commented here or reverted you. I point you to this edit by Becksguy. The way you are presenting this is inappropriate. AniMate^draw 06:05, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

That a false rape claim is important enough to be reported on CNN isn't opinion it's fact. --Policefact (talk) 06:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

CNN is a news organization, Wikipedia is not the news. AniMate^draw 06:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)