Talk:Camila Batmanghelidjh

Why such a short article?

A previously existing article on this person was deleted on 1st Sept 2010, as an alleged "close paraphrase", in violation of copyright, of her profile on a speakers' agency website http://www.specialistspeakers.com/?p=683. I have created a new stub here so that the many links to her are no longer red. The "sources" included in the original article have been reinstated, as supplied to me by the deleting admin. I hope someone will find the time and energy to create a full article. PamD (talk) 22:12, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

In case someone deletes the sources from the article, I'll paste them here too:

• Kids Company
• Articles from The Guardian
• Colourful character Camila Batmanghelidjh on her unique approach to charity work, The Independent
• BBC News profile
• Happy list
• Business Woman of the Year Award

PamD (talk) 22:16, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Batmanghelidjh speaks out on UK Riots of 7 - 9 August 2011

In a controversial interview for BBC Radio on 9 August 2011, Batmanghelidjh commented on the widespread looting committed by underprivileged British youth on 7 - 9 August. She insisted that many such youth lived in grossly disadvantaged circumstances, including chronic neglect and poverty, with too little social or governmental support. Many listeners responded, criticizing Batmanghelidjh for seeming to justify the riots. Batmanghelidjh, however, maintained that she did condemn them, but felt that too little attention was paid to these core problems of social deprivation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.194.131.141 (talk) 17:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Chronological non-sequitur

"her family was hugely impacted by the 1979 revolution and moved to England when she was 11 years old." How can the revolution have caused them to move to England if they were already established there in 1974? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.17.68.68 (talk) 11:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Changes 2014

I have updated the previous version of the article and restructured it slightly to place greater emphasis on biographical information, Batmanghelidjh's two charities, etc. I have made use of the previous author's sources, added some new ones and replaced one dead link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sjw99789 (talk • contribs) 14:53, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

In what way is she British (opening paragraph)? The award of an honorary CBE is a strong indicator that she does not have British nationality.Sebmelmoth (talk) 07:10, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't require much to call yourself British. 2.27.60.30 (talk) 15:51, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Resignation request

Kids Company's Camila Batmanghelidjh asked to step down by government should be mentioned. -- Ralph Corderoy (talk) 06:27, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Business woman?

I keep reading that Camila was a business woman, and hoped to find sources on wikipedia, but can't find any link to any business she's involved in, only charities. Can someone please add some references. 66.241.32.158 (talk) 09:50, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

A charitable organisation is a business.Sadiemonster (talk) 04:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Shareholder and former director of http://companycheck.co.uk/company/02515435/WEST-END-COURT-LIMITED/group-structure#shareholders — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.147.19.2 (talk) 13:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Obesity

Why is Camila so overweight?92.11.31.128 (talk) 00:02, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Hormone issues?78.151.27.163 (talk) 15:15, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Weird link

" Born two and a half months premature, she is chronically dyslexic."

There's no medical link.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:8A8D:FE80:78D6:6267:8F76:82E0 (talk) 14:59, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

And I think dyslexia is a permanent condition rather than a chronic one. Sebmelmoth (talk) 04:27, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

What Money?

The 'Kid's Company' section says, "Charity Kids Company told the government that it will close its services on 5 Jul 2015, the charity received the money against the advice of officials, who had raised concerns about how it would be spent." The sentence itself doesn't make sense. The second half follows on from the first half with no connection, and it's not clear what "close its services" means. Moreover, it doesn't say what "money" is being talked about, or how that plays into the closure of the company.Sadiemonster (talk) 04:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Traditional dress - what tradition?

She is noted for her colourful clothes which I have seen described as ethnic, but I am curious what particular tradition these are inspired by, looking at Iranian or Persian costumes http://www.parstimes.com/women/traditional_costume/ it seems that wearing multiple layered coloured fabrics is common for women in that region, but the turban is not represented. In fact, the article about turbans references her specifically Turban#United_Kingdom as wearing a turban as a statement of individuality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanbelllibertus (talk • contribs) 10:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

The article doesn't mention "traditional dress"; fwiw, she has said "...I get to wear my clothes for fun, and don't worry what anyone thinks." Keri (talk) 15:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Nationality

Given the prominence of her Iranian origin in the majority of sources and potential sources I fail to see how this is not notable. Indeed I would describe it as dishonest not to include it. And don't delink United Kingdom, that is being deliberatley unhelpful, IMHO. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 17:48, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

A British citizen or otherwise a British national, naturalised, registered or natural-born, or otherwise from birth, even if of dual nationality (as possibly in her case), even if un-renounced and un-disclaimed, would not normally be made an Honorary CBE, as she was. This is highly irregular. Being made an Honorary CBE would probably a tacit admission that either she has in fact never properly naturalised to become a British citizen (which is most likely), or that she had subsequently applied to renounce, and then successfully renounced, her British citizenship (with or without subsequently successfully applied to resume it), for the express purpose of receiving her CBE on a purely Honorary basis, for whatever underlying motives. -- Urquhartnite (talk) 17:38, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Philanthropist

I removed that she was a philanthropist from 2 cats and the infobox as this information was unsourced and I suspect it isnt true either. Kid's Company being philanthropic of course is not evidence that Batmanghelidjh is a philanthropist. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 15:15, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:NPA; WP:Competence; WP:NHBE; WP:DENY

Please do not try claiming credit for other peoples editing, especially after this[2] WP:Bitey edit summary.89.240.53.96 (talk) 17:23, 26 August 2015 (UTC) I beg your pardon? Your comment shows a poor understanding of how we work here, I was merely describing what I did, i was not taking credit for anything, either removing the categories or the infobox info, merely doing it. You cannot seriously suggest I should have left your poor edit in place? Basic competence is required in order to edit here and you should have checked your work and not left the mess which you did. I was reverting your mess and I then removed the philanthropy piece as unsourced and improbable. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 17:34, 26 August 2015 (UTC) What was poor about my edits, apart from initially putting a random f in the article, which I then removed? Here is the diff of my edits[3]. Here is the diff between when I finished, and when you decided to remove what I had removed[4]. What mess did I leave? All I did was remove the two categories, and the claim in the infobox. You say basic competence is required, the same could be said about looking at the edits of others. Why also such a WP:Bitey edit summary. I fully understand how we work, and it is not by insulting other editors, and then claiming to have done what they did.89.240.53.96 (talk) 17:47, 26 August 2015 (UTC) Create an account so we know who you are. You havent made any edits to the article under this IP, and you cant speak for another editor. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 21:35, 26 August 2015 (UTC) And if you were the newcomer you claim to be you would not be quoting WP:BITE to me. So why dont you just sign into your account and edit openly. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 21:39, 26 August 2015 (UTC) Please answer the questions. What was poor about my edits? What mess did I leave? Why the personal attacks against an IP editor? Why claim my edits as your own work after the personal attack? I have been here a while, but you were not to know this when you launched a personal attack in the edit summary, which is why WP:Bite applies. The problem with biting apparent newcomers, is that you don't know who you are biting. I know my way around Wikipedia, which is why I know your behaviour here is totally out of order. Looking at your block log, topic ban and discussions about your behaviour at WP:ANI, I note that this behaviour is nothing new.78.145.250.137 (talk) 23:09, 26 August 2015 (UTC) if you arent a newcomer then stop playing the victim and pretending that you are. Pretending that you are something that you are not may also mean you arent the person who made the edits, after all your ip address has NOT edited this article. You either have a problem with the article as it is, in which case please let us know what the problem is or you dont, in which case lets move on, we have nothing to discuss. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 00:07, 27 August 2015 (UTC) Indeed, its hard to tell how many of you there really are. the last edit here was edited by an anon who has never edited here before. but really any editor who pretends to be a new editor and then DEMANDS that others treat him or her as a new editor when they are anything but is not to be taken too seriously. And I do NOT have a record of biting newcomers, quite the opposite, I have welcomed hundreds, its in the record, so please get your facts straight BEFORE making angry accusations. Just remember that if you make public accusations that I bit you as a newcomer those would be false allegations because you are not a newcomer. The edits here dont belong to any of us, and if I want to take credit for good editing, this page is not where I would start, look at my contribs. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 00:42, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Unsourced claims regarding education

The Early life section has the claim "...before training as a psychotherapist at Regent's University London." along with a reference to this link [5], however there is no mention of her having attended Regent's University London in that source. Danrok (talk) 23:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Merger proposal (Fereydoon Batmanghelidj)

I propose that the article on [Dr] Fereydoon Batmanghelidj or parts thereof be merged into the article on Camila Batmanghelidjh, because the life and times of the late Dr Batmanghelidj in Iran were not particularly of note (even as a victim of political oppression and repression by the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, not being actually an Iranian politician or otherwise directly involved in Iranian politics himself), certainly not in the English Wikipedia; and his later life and times both as a layman (apparently not actually qualified to practise medicine as an American MD) and as a medical controversialist of sorts (as a writer of several controversial medical titles) in the United States of America were not of particular importance either, unless the note and importance of her daughter Camila were also included, as it is the case, which is obviously usually disallowed, according to WP:NOTINHERITED. The late Dr Batmanghelidj was in his lifetime (and still is) not of note and important in his own right, certainly not for the purpose of the English Wikipedia. -- Urquhartnite (talk) 20:06, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Oppose Why aren't you using the article names? As far as I can tell the father has notoriety independent of and preceeding the daughter because of his cranky views and publications. DeCausa (talk) 19:44, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I am disabled, I am on some stronger painkillers, and I am also otherwise somewhat semi-busy in real-life anyway. Patience, patience ... -- Urquhartnite (talk) 20:19, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

You've gone beyond WP:REDACT by completely rewriting your post after I had responded to it. Anyways... I don't thing the rewritten post changes the substantive point in my reply. DeCausa (talk) 20:27, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, I am obviously not an on-duty solicitor chasing ambulances whilst editing a bit of Wikipedia on the side, am I ?! Anyway, the man was not only a crank, he was also a bit of a nobody! We don't give every single crank (who isn't or wasn't even a practising MD or doctor of medicine) who has or had ever written more than one book an article on Wikipedia, do we?! -- Urquhartnite (talk) 21:03, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I suspect it doesn't matter. DeCausa (talk) 22:09, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I didn't actually in so many words say you were! If you really are a solicitor (or a barrister, an advocate or a notary public), or even just a paralegal, then I would think that you would already and always have volumes and volumes of usually-bounded new laws and new case law right behind your back, in the shelves, which need reading, and digesting! You are surely not doing your job properly if you actually have the time to be 'round here with us mere mortal pseuds and amateurs! Unless, you are considering leaving the profession rather than contemplating defecting to "the dark side" (The Eddie Stobart Group, et al.) ! From someone who know a thing or two about bits of law (and an intermittent reader of the Spectator magazine in print) but who would probably never actually practise it! TTFN, and good morning to you! -- Urquhartnite (talk) 10:19, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Still don't know what you're trying to say and it still doesn't matter. DeCausa (talk) 08:17, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Oppose His article needs a rewrite, but he's independently notable. Bromley86 (talk) 03:31, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

• Speedy Oppose /close independent topics. Fix it there / take up notability there. Widefox; talk 13:40, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose: clear independent notability, as reflected in reliable sources. Midnightblueowl (talk) 18:57, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Any objection to me closing this and removing the tags? Or does that need to be done by the proposer? Bromley86 (talk) 21:04, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

CBE Forfeiture

Camila is said to be under threat of her CBE being taken away.[6]92.31.90.118 (talk) 12:14, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi IP. A lot of people have a big problem with the Mail for biographies, so probably best to wait for another source to pick it up. I do think that source is fine for the explanation of why honorary vs. normal CBE (see Urquhartnite's entry above), so I might add a couple of words on that. Bromley86 (talk) 21:34, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

In any case all the report says is that if charges are at some point brought then the CBE might be withdrawn, so there's no info to add. Martinlc (talk) 23:26, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

True. I imagine this Times article, that I haven't read because of the paywall, says much the same. Bromley86 (talk) 00:23, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

The Grauniad ("The Socialist Social Worker") more or less backed Camila Batmanghelidjh, in a partisan way, as or as if it were an involved party, throughout the years, until about August of this year (and you obviously read that paper, and read their website as well!) You might just as well use The Morning Star or The Socialist Worker! -- Urquhartnite (talk) 19:54, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Assuming that's aimed at me, you couldn't be further off the mark. I'm a great fan of using the Mail to support uncontroversial BLP points that otherwise are unsupported; it seems a no-brainer to me. Using it to support more controversial points is always going to end in tears though, as there are editors, including admins, who blindly remove all Mail references in BLPs (including, one time, an article written by the subject!). Bromley86 (talk) 20:24, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Edits by Admins are (usually) no more authoritative than ordinary lay editors, and they (usually) carry no more weight than those done by the latter. The people who summarily remove the DM (printed), the MOS (printed) and MOL (online; and not as reliable as (or, rather (depending on your viewpoint), which is even more unreliable than) the first two) (which are in fact three different media sources) are obviously attempting to push their own private left-wing, centre-left, hard left, Marxist, Leninist, Stalinist or Trotskyite political views and political agenda within Wikipedia. Anyway, with the greatest of respect, you obviously do (primarily) read the Guardian, and the problem with that is, the Guardian had been cultivating this Batmanghelidjh cultish neo-religion, in which Batmanghelidjh was essentially portrayed as if she were some kind of a messiahic living Demigod, "saving millions of children in Inner, Outer and Greater London, and beyond, Black, White, Brown and Yellow", for years and years, that I don't think that you can really possibly be free of all sorts of subconscious pro-Batmanghelidjh bias (which the Guardian has no doubt successfully planted into your head without you knowing), when you are editing articles about Kids Company or the Batmanghelidjhs. You are essentially an indirect, involuntary connected contributor, alas, albeit by stealth. -- Urquhartnite (talk) 22:28, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, again, I don't. Why do I feel like I'm in some sort of McCathyist discussion? Lay off the accusations, please. Bromley86 (talk) 22:20, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Arbitrary outdent. On the question of sources, Wikipedia is about Verifiability not Truth. If a tabloid/website says that a person is of a particular nationality, or has appeared in a film, or won an award, then the source can be used in the Wikipedia entry if it has some form of editorial oversight (ie that it doesn't have a reputation for making things up or being so slapdash about detail that its 'facts' can't be trusted). The Guardian featured many positive articles about Kids Company (usually columnist/ authored articles), but if it says that the charity's income was £2m or whatever we can cite this information.Martinlc (talk) 11:06, 14 November 2015 (UTC)