User talk:Ceoil

Cut the Ceoil

I was aimlessly leafing through the Clash studio album articles last night and got to Cut the Crap, caught by surprise at the relatively high level of detail. Whose handiwork is this? I flip over to the page history and who do I see... You really are drawn to magnificent rock 'n' roll trainwrecks, aren't you? —BLZ · talk 19:15, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, it’s funny you should ask, as I wanted to get your input on this in a not so distant future PR, if you are so disposed. The idea behind terrible albums by senimal artists was driven the much missed Wesley Dodds; the clash article is a long lost project of ours resurrected when a number of classic bios were recently republished. Am still very proud of the work we three did on loveless, and to me, these days, the bench mark now is A Moon Shaped Pool; the work popcorn and seperatly, you, are doing is *just* great. Living on the wilds of Southern Ireland, it’s not so often I get to discuss the nunances of Albini’s early recording? career. Ceoil (talk) 02:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I'd definitely be interested in participating in a Cut the Crap PR, let me know whenever you think it's ready for it. Be Here Now remains, for me, a Wikipedia masterpiece; one of the most absorbing pieces of rock n roll storytelling on the site (not to mention hilarious). So I'm more than happy to read anything in the same vein. The Loveless collab is always a fond memory for me. You and Wes put in the bulk of the effort, and I was just a high schooler at the time and had hardly any sense of what I was doing. It was really instructive and fun just to watch the two of you writing and talking. I absolutely thought you and him were the two coolest people I had ever encountered. To this day, whenever I'm meeting someone who has some music sense, one of my favorite cards to pull is saying I was partly responsible for the Loveless Wikipedia article, along with someone from LA and someone from Ireland—the far-flung nature of the collaboration is always a point of interest. I've also told Popcorn that he oughta bring A Moon Shaped Pool to FAC, it's clearly at that level.

Shootin' the shit on music: like most, I rank Albini as an engineer first, a cantankerous/righteous/amusing pundit second, and a musician third. Kurt was right that his recording of other bands massively outweighs his own musical projects, imo, especially for the 80s/early 90s period Kurt was around for. I always thought Big Black were tinny and kinda boring, although I've warmed up to Atomizer. For me, if Albini has anything like a personal masterpiece it's 1000 Hurts—"Prayer to God" is just crushing. As far as the Clash goes: I love punk's immediate after-effects, but first-wave punk rock itself has rarely been a go-to for me. That said, London Calling is far and away my favorite "classic" punk album out of England. I like their debut quite a bit too; in general, I like them best when they hit a melancholic register: "Remote Control", "Spanish Bombs", "Lost in the Supermarket", that sorta thing. —BLZ · talk 00:12, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

A lot of 80s hardcore, and especially Big Black, is of the "you had to have been there to love it" type. Man did I try with that band, but Kerosene was the only song I truly loved, and which perhaps Trent Reznor‎ based a career on. Re Shellac, I got into Albini through Seamonsters and Tribute to a Bus (the latter an album I am evangelical about), even though am, ahem, old enough to have remember when Surfer Rosa first broke in the UK - it was all about kim, not steve. When seamonsters came out, I was holy fuck that acoustic roomy drum sound is jast like pixies....then discovered him. I think you are wrong, frankly about 1000 hurts, when Terraform has "Didn't We Deserve A Look At You The Way You Really Are" (that drum pattern change) and "Copper"; those two songs when I heard them, changed my who astethic away from shoe gazing back to my punk rock roots, and reinvigorated an interest minimal techno, espically richie hawtin, who is mixed up in my head with Albini. (eg compare this early work to big black[1])

Re the Clash, we now have an involved party [2], which rather complicates matters (my initial thoughs about that edit is that the article can be slanted away from scapegoating while still maintaing integrity).

I will certainly tap you for the PR, as I say your opinion is of high value to me. Ceoil (talk) 23:28, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Agree 100% on "Kerosene", it whips. I should clarify that while 1000 Hurts is my personal favorite Shellac, I think the first four LPs (at least) are pretty much uniformly excellent. I gave Terraform a relisten last night and I will say, it's rare as one of the few records that seems genuinely influenced by Spiderland (a formative record for me, obv)—not just in the obvious ways (7+ minute songs) but in the rhythm and feeling of control, the way that repetition invests very subtle or small gestures with significance and impact. Which certainly sounds like a description of minimal techno! It's too bad Albini is closed off to his kinship with industrial techno-type music, but it seems like a nonoptional component of his cranky musical worldview. You've probably already seen this Powell video wherein he emails Albini to get a Big Black sample cleared, but if you haven't it's a good tune and a funny video. A fitting tribute to both Albini's sound and his prickly personality. Will have to check out 18th Dye, enticed by the prospect of a shoegazey band recorded by Albini. Good luck on the Clash, hopefully there's not too much of a clash in the editing. —BLZ · talk 21:06, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, but his non-optional, still fighting the Thatcher/Reagan wars, lost in the jungles of Nam, approach leaves me alienated and cold at times. Its all music, man :) and fine I didn't grow up in 1970s Montana (as if that's not a bad thing), and crossed over from Buzzcocks, Crass, Pixies etc to Acid House, as a foundation for Minimalist Techno (as opposed to say industrial techno, which i HATE), in 1989 and have been listening to the stuff since then. Its fine to be a purist and closely guard your specific cultural touchstones; but to be a closed minded Luddite blocking out the sun is another matter. For eg, I dont get the same vibe from Ian MacKaye, who even now is relevant, and more importantly has always been about inclusiveness. Dunno, I still listen to podcast etc from Albini, but at times he seems to be retreating into cartoon form. Ceoil (talk) 02:30, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Non-free content use

Hi Ceoil. Non-free content can only be used in articles per Wikipedia non-free content use criterion #9; it can't be used on user pages or user subpages such as User:Theramin/stuff as explained in WP:UP#Non-free images. You can link to the file if you want using the colon trick, but you can't display it. The file was flagged as a Wikipedia non-free content use policy violation by a bot and it will keep being flagged as such each time the file is re-added to that page; however, if you feel that some sort of exemption should be made for that particular user subpage, you can ask for one at WT:NFCC. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:30, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

ok Marchjuly. Ceoil (talk) 08:34, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

My bad. I naïvely assumed that a black-and-white postage-stamp-sized photograph of an 1920s artwork that was probably destroyed in the 1940s would be ok, but I should have checked its status more thoroughly. I suppose I might be allowed to use it in 20 or 21 years time.

(I do try to obey most of the idiotic rules. Or at least only "violate" them - horrible, horrible expression, used far too loosely: words have impacts - in ways that do not elicit complaints.)

Anyway, back to hibernation. Zzz. Theramin (talk) 00:28, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I wouldn't loose sleep, the policies are what they are, gotta enforce the rulezz.....[3]. Nobody has died...and somehow the world still turns. Ceoil (talk) 00:53, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Keep on doing what your doing. There are kindred spritS who appreciate. Ceoil (talk) 00:42, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Period pieces

[4] and [5] Kafka Liz (talk) 22:48, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. This is a genuinely excellent 80s synthpop, that deserved to be up there with a-ha [6]. They are a bit kitchy, but to me as unfairly ignored as Talk Talk. Ceoil (talk) 22:52, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I do like that. But it was our Prom song, which sort of taints it a bit, though I try to ignore it. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:58, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh didnt realised they were big over there. Lucky you, its a very romantic tune! This was ours [7] A good song, except after you hear it on Irish radio 150,0000,000 times. Ceoil (talk) 23:13, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Its funny how the trasalantic thing works, off the top of my head bands that were huge over that didnt make a dent in the us in their early days; VU, pixies, strokes, killers, dandy warhols. Ceoil (talk) 23:24, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Um, are you insane? Or just taking the piss? Kafka Liz (talk) 23:55, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

That’s a bit Violent Femmes, no? [8] Kafka Liz (talk) 23:20, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes the bass line sounds exactly the same! Ceoil (talk) 23:53, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

All right, it’s maybe not quite that grim. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:22, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh man, Country Death Song, seriously close to the bone music from this paddy. The cork version of astral weeks! See also [9]. Yes I was a bit lost before I met you. Ceoil (talk) 23:24, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Christ, that’s scary, as someone who used to be married to a Kentuckian. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:31, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

The face lick at c. 0:35 is a classic. For some reason the song is wrapped up in y mind with [10], prob as both have EVIL bass lines. In fairness, Scorsese does make good movies, so its not all totally warped. Ceoil (talk) 23:34, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

the best fucking movies Kafka Liz (talk) 00:41, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Try this far more relaxing. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:35, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I always wondered where peaches came from. Now I know: they were put there by a man. Lol Ceoil (talk) 23:39, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

There are also some ninjas. I might have forgot about them. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:53, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Speaking of 1996, this [11] is unfairly maligned. If you get past the unusually banal, vacuous lyrics, the chorus is gorgeous and approaches perfect pop. Ceoil (talk) 23:58, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I actually do like that. It taps into something that isn’t usually present in me. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:01, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

PS: found this. Not sure if you like Weezer, Boston, and the cars all mashed up together. . Ceoil (talk) 00:03, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

here is a pretty bitter 80s prom song candidate.[12]. Prefab Sprout are a deep well. Ceoil (talk) 01:23, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Jamiroquai FAC

Hi Ceoil, I was wondering if possible, you could elaborate what pre-FA work the Jamiroquai article needs, as you mentioned in the FAC? I was told by a peer reviewer that the new PR request that I have up may not be necessary. Otherwise, I may have the article nominated again. Thank you! 100cellsman (talk) 03:13, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I'll get to it in the next few weeks cellsman, but frankly I dont think its even close to being ready. The two main issues is that its dry, ie fact, fact fact, and the writing needs work; i scrolled at random just now and landed on Political themes were expressed on the anti-war song "Too Young to Die";[14] "The Kids", from The Return of the Space Cowboy, which "[advocates] for the younger generation";[119] and "World That He Wants", from Dynamite (2005), with lyrics written about George W. Bush.[67]- which is, sorry to say, a mess.

That said, I quite like Jamiroquai (as a guilty pleasure), so count me in as an enabler for improvement....no earlier than in "the next few weeks". Ceoil (talk) 23:12, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry for bothering you about this. It would just be cool to see the article become a FA at some point. But no rush, thanks for the reply! 100cellsman (talk) 15:33, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

• I tried to post the dance scene from Napoleon Dynamite here, but the Link Nazi's haughty finger crooked a pointed NO in my face. I consider myself corrected. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 05:30, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

18th Dye and Westerberg

I really liked the 18th Dye Peel session you linked to. Here's a bit more Westerberg for you: The first is a short EP that he released under the moniker Grandpaboy for fun while between record contracts. I think it's generally considered something he just knocked off (and maybe he did) and not given a lot of attention, but I've always loved it! [[13]]. The other is another favourite of his solo songs: [[14]]. Moisejp (talk) 21:05, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Moisejp, I mention because of its similarity to POD - all bass and drums, no mid or high range sounds, with the low ends very "boomy". Ceoil (talk) 02:37, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Just noticed something and I am late at responding but...

Was reading over this statement you made and am floored that my FAC work led to you opening an account after editing as an IP. I don't think I have ever had so grand a compliment. While this is more than a year late, I wanted to reach out to you and say thank you...thank you so very much. Stay tuned...another FAC is on the horizon soon. I hope we can work together on one perhaps in the future.--MONGO (talk) 01:57, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Count me in too, if you need an extra hand. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 01:59, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

That's a deal!--MONGO (talk) 02:10, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

T'is true, but in reality its me that should be thanking you, for setting standards, and as one of the early editors who showed what FAC could achieve. Anyway, you can certainly count me in, and let me know when you are ready for FAC. Ceoil (talk) 23:56, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

"Irish" music

Going to write on music setting an Irish text, - should be DYK for St. Patrick's ;) - In memory of J.S. (no, not the famous one) who is buried today (and I can't go), so instead ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:18, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

That's a lovely idea Gerda! Ceoil (talk) 21:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Look ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:14, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh my! Am seriously impressed, especially because: Arvo Pärt[15]. May the hills of Killarney bless you. Would be great if we had this and St Fin Barre's on Paddy's...Ceoil (talk) 23:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

yes - id=FT-iUcdMVlk --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:31, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Wot Ceoil (talk) 23:55, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

The YouTube id. I saw people blocked for giving a link to a possibly copyrighted page. You find several searching for the the title. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:17, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I figured it out after, slow aged person that I am :) Really enjoyed. Ceoil (talk) 11:23, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Wait, what?

Uh, hi. What is this? It certainly looks like a personal attack on me. But what could that possibly be about? What in the ever-loving hell could I have possibly done to you, to deserve being randomly attacked as a "cowardly prick"? Unless I'm mistaken, I don't even know you. I've never been to this talk page, I've never blocked you, I can't find any encounters in the noticeboard archives, and I genuinely don't recall ever having encountered you at all. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to come at you in an antagonistic way, I'm just genuinely wondering what reason you'd have to be pissed off at me. I'm not even marginally related to anything that's currently going on. I'm so confused. ~Swarm~ {talk} 00:28, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Dear Swarm, it was nothing to do with you. Ceoil (talk) 00:31, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

@Swarm: ^^^ (don't know if you saw) (talk page stalker) --DannyS712 (talk) 00:40, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Enough of this bizzaro &&&&. Please DannyS712 and Swarm, who ever ye are, go away. Ceoil (talk) 00:42, 24 February 2019 (UTC)