Talk:Steve Bannon: Difference between revisions
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**[[user:MrX|MrX]], you should be very wary of reverting editors and telling them "see talk page" when they have just commented on the talk page. I am not going to revert you, but I would like for you to know that I am an administrator with some experience in BLP areas, and I don't cry BLP lightly. You have NO consensus here for your edit. I think it behooves you to revert yourself. What is the rush anyway? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 16:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC) |
**[[user:MrX|MrX]], you should be very wary of reverting editors and telling them "see talk page" when they have just commented on the talk page. I am not going to revert you, but I would like for you to know that I am an administrator with some experience in BLP areas, and I don't cry BLP lightly. You have NO consensus here for your edit. I think it behooves you to revert yourself. What is the rush anyway? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 16:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC) |
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***Discussion is of course ongoing, but I wouldn't say that -- at this point -- there is no consensus for inclusion, especially when you factor in the number of editors who have shown by their editing that they favor inclusion, even though they haven't commented here. I'd say that the comments are slightly in favor of inclusion. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 16:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC) |
***Discussion is of course ongoing, but I wouldn't say that -- at this point -- there is no consensus for inclusion, especially when you factor in the number of editors who have shown by their editing that they favor inclusion, even though they haven't commented here. I'd say that the comments are slightly in favor of inclusion. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 16:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC) |
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⚫ | **@Drmies: No need to sound so ominous, but you really should not have removed the material given the discussion so far. By the way, I have a lot of experience with BLP areas too, having written more than a handful of them and having edited several hundred (or maybe thousands?) of them. By the way, [[WP:NOTNEWS]] is for keeping routine news out of the encyclopedia (yet we commonly update sports stats and music charting in near real time). This is isn't that. - [[user:MrX|MrX]][[user talk:MrX| 🖋]] 16:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC) |
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***MrX, whether something falls under NOTNEWS is often a matter of time. But your first argument bites itself on the ass: you should not have included the material given the discussion so far, certainly not since this is a BLP. Surely you have learned, after editing all those articles, all those BLPs, all those items in AP territory, that in BLPs one should exercise caution. I'm sorry, but I am a bit baffled by your lackadaisical attitude toward the BLP here. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 17:28, 20 August 2020 (UTC) |
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==Scheme vs plan== |
==Scheme vs plan== |
Revision as of 17:28, 20 August 2020
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lede
this lede looks awful with citations, excessive content, etc. Needs cleanup Jtbobwaysf (talk) 03:01, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Why does it say that Cambridge Analytica was involved in the facebook data scandal?
Although it was involved in the data scandal, I don't believe it is relevant to the article, it feels more like a statement solely for discrediting the individual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrariabat (talk • contribs) 22:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
- Bannon has deep connections to CA. [1]. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:20, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Cambridge Analytica dissolved?
Currently at the top of the article it has "He serves on the board of Cambridge Analytica" given that Cambridge Analytica was dissolved in 2018 wouldn't it be better to change it so that its written in the past tense as he no longer serves on the board of the company as Cambridge Analytica no longer exists. Something like "Previously he served on the board of defunct data analytics firm Cambridge Analytica which was involved in the Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal." I think would be better. What does everyone else think? C. 22468 Talk to me 15:39, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
Addition of Aug 2020 arrest to lead
Volunteer Marek, please follow BRD rather than reverting with an insufficient justification. The material was removed from the lead for more than just violating BLPCRIME. It is also UNDUE. While the arrest might be significant in the end (if a conviction stands) it also might prove to be noting more than an political prosecution that gets thrown out in the end. We can't tell and guessing is WP:CRYSTAL. The lead is meant to be a summary of the article. The arrest section of the lead was about the same length as the arrest section in the article body. That gives the event which is RECENT UNDUE weight in the lead. The material was recently added by one editor, I have challenged it. Even with your opinion that it should stay in the lead we don't have consensus for inclusion. For these reasons please self revert. Springee (talk) 14:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- No. Bannon’s arrest ic clearly due as he is/was a major player in Trump campaign and administration. Trying to pretend that this is something minor is disingenuous. And once again you invoke BLPCRIME in a manner which misrepresents it. You’ve tried doing this before, it’s been pointed out to you that it doesn’t say what you claim it says, so why are you doing it again? Volunteer Marek 14:47, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry no, the length of the arrest content in the body is very short. Right now you have nothing more than your opinion that this arrest, of which we know virtually nothing, is one of the most significant things about Bannon's rather long and politically involved story. The article lead is not a news feed. Per RECENT we have no idea if this arrest will amount to the end of Bannon's public life and jail time (clearly should be in the lead) or if this is nothing more than a political stunt where charges will get dropped the moment they get before a judge. Since we can't know what the long term impact is we can't judge if this passes the 10YEARTEST. Springee (talk) 15:05, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, this belongs in the lead. A federal indictment for scamming hundreds of thousands of gullible donors by a WP:WELLKNOWN person is a highly significant event in the subject's life. The close connection with Trump, who is habitual liar and whose organizations have been shut down because of fraud and mishandling of charitable funds makes this especially significant. - MrX 🖋 15:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Include. You really should re-read WP:BLPCRIME if you think it precludes us from noting Bannon's arrest in the article's lead. Your interpretation of WP:DUE and WP:CRYSTAL are just as wrong. He has been arrested. That's a fact, not some fringe theory or something that may happen in the future. -- Calidum 15:47, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Per MOS lead this content is not due for the lead. We have 2 sentences in the body and one in the lead. Regardless, I've raised the issue at BLPN. Springee (talk) 16:18, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- this,
it also might prove to be noting more than an political prosecution that gets thrown out in the end.
is nonsense and it's irrelevant to your best argument, which you've raised at BLPN. SPECIFICO talk 16:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC) - @Springee: You already took this to Masem's talk page. Then taking it to a notice board after three editors have disagree with you seems like WP:FORUMSHOPPING. - MrX 🖋 16:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- No, I didn't. I asked Masem for specific policy guidance. I didn't not ask Masem to weigh in on this discussion. Please avoid making bad faith accusations like forum shopping. Springee (talk) 16:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- At the moment there is not enough in the body to merit inclusion in the lead. PackMecEng (talk) 16:36, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Worry not. I'm working on it, and I'm sure other editors are too. - MrX 🖋 16:38, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- I do not think this should be in the lead. NOTNEWS and all that. Even if you add more sources and text, it is still undue compared to the rest of the article, which is yuge. I am very, very wary of including those new events to the lead, and we should all be, per the BLP. Drmies (talk) 16:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, Drmies, I disagree. The arrest of a former White House official is a big deal, and should be (minimally) mentioned in the lede. There is no BLP issue, in my view - BLP is not intended to prevent all negative events from being included in an article, not is DUE an issue. This isn't a ticket for jaywalking or a citation for not wearing a mask, it's a major allegation of fraud, and as long as it's presented like that -- as an allegation -- there should be no policy violation. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:48, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- It's funny, I used the same argument about this not being like jaywalking on BLPN. A federal grand jury does not issue an indictment without hearing evidence. - MrX 🖋 17:26, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- MrX, you should be very wary of reverting editors and telling them "see talk page" when they have just commented on the talk page. I am not going to revert you, but I would like for you to know that I am an administrator with some experience in BLP areas, and I don't cry BLP lightly. You have NO consensus here for your edit. I think it behooves you to revert yourself. What is the rush anyway? Drmies (talk) 16:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion is of course ongoing, but I wouldn't say that -- at this point -- there is no consensus for inclusion, especially when you factor in the number of editors who have shown by their editing that they favor inclusion, even though they haven't commented here. I'd say that the comments are slightly in favor of inclusion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Drmies: No need to sound so ominous, but you really should not have removed the material given the discussion so far. By the way, I have a lot of experience with BLP areas too, having written more than a handful of them and having edited several hundred (or maybe thousands?) of them. By the way, WP:NOTNEWS is for keeping routine news out of the encyclopedia (yet we commonly update sports stats and music charting in near real time). This is isn't that. - MrX 🖋 16:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- MrX, whether something falls under NOTNEWS is often a matter of time. But your first argument bites itself on the ass: you should not have included the material given the discussion so far, certainly not since this is a BLP. Surely you have learned, after editing all those articles, all those BLPs, all those items in AP territory, that in BLPs one should exercise caution. I'm sorry, but I am a bit baffled by your lackadaisical attitude toward the BLP here. Drmies (talk) 17:28, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- MrX, you should be very wary of reverting editors and telling them "see talk page" when they have just commented on the talk page. I am not going to revert you, but I would like for you to know that I am an administrator with some experience in BLP areas, and I don't cry BLP lightly. You have NO consensus here for your edit. I think it behooves you to revert yourself. What is the rush anyway? Drmies (talk) 16:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Scheme vs plan
- Just a note that in American English, "scheme" has connotations of intentional wrongdoing. I know it's different other places, but the neutral term in AmEng would be "plan". —valereee (talk) 17:21, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
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