Talk:Steve Bannon: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 17:28, 20 August 2020

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Steve Bannon article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3: 30 days

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This article is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography: Politics and Government B‑class

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Business B‑class Low‑importance

	Business portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of business articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject BusinessTemplate:WikiProject BusinessWikiProject Business articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Conservatism B‑class Mid‑importance

	Conservatism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Template:WikiProject Donald Trump

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Journalism B‑class Mid‑importance

	Journalism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Journalism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of journalism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JournalismWikipedia:WikiProject JournalismTemplate:WikiProject JournalismJournalism articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Politics B‑class Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

United States B‑class High‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Virginia B‑class Low‑importance

	Virginia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Virginia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Virginia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VirginiaWikipedia:WikiProject VirginiaTemplate:WikiProject VirginiaVirginia articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in limited circumstances)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

Enforcement procedures:

Violations of any of these restrictions should be reported immediately to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard.
Editors who are aware of this topic being designated a contentious topic and who violate these restrictions may be sanctioned by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions.
Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as obvious vandalism.
In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion.
Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance.
Whenever you are relying on one of these exemptions, you should refer to it in your edit summary and, if applicable, link to the discussion where consensus was clearly established.

The contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topics sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!

Daily pageviews of this article

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

Template:Vital article

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Moynihan, Robert (January 31, 2017). "Steve Bannon, In His Own Words [Letter #6b]". InsideTheVatican.com. Retrieved February 21, 2017.
http://www.indiewire.com/2016/11/stephen-k-bannon-indie-film-distribution-wellspring-breitbart-1201748020/

lede

this lede looks awful with citations, excessive content, etc. Needs cleanup Jtbobwaysf (talk) 03:01, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why does it say that Cambridge Analytica was involved in the facebook data scandal?

Although it was involved in the data scandal, I don't believe it is relevant to the article, it feels more like a statement solely for discrediting the individual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrariabat (talk • contribs) 22:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bannon has deep connections to CA. [1]. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:20, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cambridge Analytica dissolved?

Currently at the top of the article it has "He serves on the board of Cambridge Analytica" given that Cambridge Analytica was dissolved in 2018 wouldn't it be better to change it so that its written in the past tense as he no longer serves on the board of the company as Cambridge Analytica no longer exists. Something like "Previously he served on the board of defunct data analytics firm Cambridge Analytica which was involved in the Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal." I think would be better. What does everyone else think? C. 22468 Talk to me 15:39, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Addition of Aug 2020 arrest to lead

Volunteer Marek, please follow BRD rather than reverting with an insufficient justification. The material was removed from the lead for more than just violating BLPCRIME. It is also UNDUE. While the arrest might be significant in the end (if a conviction stands) it also might prove to be noting more than an political prosecution that gets thrown out in the end. We can't tell and guessing is WP:CRYSTAL. The lead is meant to be a summary of the article. The arrest section of the lead was about the same length as the arrest section in the article body. That gives the event which is RECENT UNDUE weight in the lead. The material was recently added by one editor, I have challenged it. Even with your opinion that it should stay in the lead we don't have consensus for inclusion. For these reasons please self revert. Springee (talk) 14:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No. Bannon’s arrest ic clearly due as he is/was a major player in Trump campaign and administration. Trying to pretend that this is something minor is disingenuous. And once again you invoke BLPCRIME in a manner which misrepresents it. You’ve tried doing this before, it’s been pointed out to you that it doesn’t say what you claim it says, so why are you doing it again? Volunteer Marek 14:47, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry no, the length of the arrest content in the body is very short. Right now you have nothing more than your opinion that this arrest, of which we know virtually nothing, is one of the most significant things about Bannon's rather long and politically involved story. The article lead is not a news feed. Per RECENT we have no idea if this arrest will amount to the end of Bannon's public life and jail time (clearly should be in the lead) or if this is nothing more than a political stunt where charges will get dropped the moment they get before a judge. Since we can't know what the long term impact is we can't judge if this passes the 10YEARTEST. Springee (talk) 15:05, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this belongs in the lead. A federal indictment for scamming hundreds of thousands of gullible donors by a WP:WELLKNOWN person is a highly significant event in the subject's life. The close connection with Trump, who is habitual liar and whose organizations have been shut down because of fraud and mishandling of charitable funds makes this especially significant. - MrX 🖋 15:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Include. You really should re-read WP:BLPCRIME if you think it precludes us from noting Bannon's arrest in the article's lead. Your interpretation of WP:DUE and WP:CRYSTAL are just as wrong. He has been arrested. That's a fact, not some fringe theory or something that may happen in the future. -- Calidum 15:47, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Per MOS lead this content is not due for the lead. We have 2 sentences in the body and one in the lead. Regardless, I've raised the issue at BLPN. Springee (talk) 16:18, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

this, it also might prove to be noting more than an political prosecution that gets thrown out in the end. is nonsense and it's irrelevant to your best argument, which you've raised at BLPN. SPECIFICO talk 16:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Springee: You already took this to Masem's talk page. Then taking it to a notice board after three editors have disagree with you seems like WP:FORUMSHOPPING. - MrX 🖋 16:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, I didn't. I asked Masem for specific policy guidance. I didn't not ask Masem to weigh in on this discussion. Please avoid making bad faith accusations like forum shopping. Springee (talk) 16:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment there is not enough in the body to merit inclusion in the lead. PackMecEng (talk) 16:36, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Worry not. I'm working on it, and I'm sure other editors are too. - MrX 🖋 16:38, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think this should be in the lead. NOTNEWS and all that. Even if you add more sources and text, it is still undue compared to the rest of the article, which is yuge. I am very, very wary of including those new events to the lead, and we should all be, per the BLP. Drmies (talk) 16:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- - Sorry, Drmies, I disagree. The arrest of a former White House official is a big deal, and should be (minimally) mentioned in the lede. There is no BLP issue, in my view - BLP is not intended to prevent all negative events from being included in an article, not is DUE an issue. This isn't a ticket for jaywalking or a citation for not wearing a mask, it's a major allegation of fraud, and as long as it's presented like that -- as an allegation -- there should be no policy violation. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:48, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's funny, I used the same argument about this not being like jaywalking on BLPN. A federal grand jury does not issue an indictment without hearing evidence. - MrX 🖋 17:26, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- MrX, you should be very wary of reverting editors and telling them "see talk page" when they have just commented on the talk page. I am not going to revert you, but I would like for you to know that I am an administrator with some experience in BLP areas, and I don't cry BLP lightly. You have NO consensus here for your edit. I think it behooves you to revert yourself. What is the rush anyway? Drmies (talk) 16:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Discussion is of course ongoing, but I wouldn't say that -- at this point -- there is no consensus for inclusion, especially when you factor in the number of editors who have shown by their editing that they favor inclusion, even though they haven't commented here. I'd say that the comments are slightly in favor of inclusion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Drmies: No need to sound so ominous, but you really should not have removed the material given the discussion so far. By the way, I have a lot of experience with BLP areas too, having written more than a handful of them and having edited several hundred (or maybe thousands?) of them. By the way, WP:NOTNEWS is for keeping routine news out of the encyclopedia (yet we commonly update sports stats and music charting in near real time). This is isn't that. - MrX 🖋 16:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - MrX, whether something falls under NOTNEWS is often a matter of time. But your first argument bites itself on the ass: you should not have included the material given the discussion so far, certainly not since this is a BLP. Surely you have learned, after editing all those articles, all those BLPs, all those items in AP territory, that in BLPs one should exercise caution. I'm sorry, but I am a bit baffled by your lackadaisical attitude toward the BLP here. Drmies (talk) 17:28, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Scheme vs plan

Just a note that in American English, "scheme" has connotations of intentional wrongdoing. I know it's different other places, but the neutral term in AmEng would be "plan". —valereee (talk) 17:21, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 58: / Line 58: @@
 **[[user:MrX|MrX]], you should be very wary of reverting editors and telling them "see talk page" when they have just commented on the talk page. I am not going to revert you, but I would like for you to know that I am an administrator with some experience in BLP areas, and I don't cry BLP lightly. You have NO consensus here for your edit. I think it behooves you to revert yourself. What is the rush anyway? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 16:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 ***Discussion is of course ongoing, but I wouldn't say that -- at this point -- there is no consensus for inclusion, especially when you factor in the number of editors who have shown by their editing that they favor inclusion, even though they haven't commented here.  I'd say that the comments are slightly in favor of inclusion. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 16:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
+**@Drmies: No need to sound so ominous, but you really should not have removed the material given the discussion so far. By the way, I have a lot of experience with BLP areas too, having written more than a handful of them and having edited several hundred (or maybe thousands?) of them. By the way, [[WP:NOTNEWS]] is for keeping routine news out of the encyclopedia (yet we commonly update sports stats and music charting in near real time). This is isn't that. - [[user:MrX|MrX]][[user talk:MrX| 🖋]] 16:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
+***MrX, whether something falls under NOTNEWS is often a matter of time. But your first argument bites itself on the ass: you should not have included the material given the discussion so far, certainly not since this is a BLP. Surely you have learned, after editing all those articles, all those BLPs, all those items in AP territory, that in BLPs one should exercise caution. I'm sorry, but I am a bit baffled by your lackadaisical attitude toward the BLP here. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 17:28, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
-::@Drmies: No need to sound so ominous, but you really should not have removed the material given the discussion so far. By the way, I have a lot of experience with BLP areas too, having written more than a handful of them and having edited several hundred (or maybe thousands?) of them. By the way, [[WP:NOTNEWS]] is for keeping routine news out of the encyclopedia (yet we commonly update sports stats and music charting in near real time). This is isn't that. - [[user:MrX|MrX]][[user talk:MrX| 🖋]] 16:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 ==Scheme vs plan==