User talk:Ceoil

Pleurants at the Tomb of Philippe Pot

#mybeacon

Ceoil I received an emergency beacon a few months ago suggesting that shit was getting unusually strange on wikipedia after being boring as fuck for a number of years. I felt a duty to come back, and right the ship, as it were, a ship increasingly shaped like water. You have been accused of like five different ways of breaking Teh Rules lately, each increasingly more ridiculous, and I mean, what the actual fuck? I am inclined to say you are receiving the wrath of the silent legions of self-professed only-in-it-for-the-duty wiki-janitors who seriously did not want The Shape of Water to win Best Picture, because it portrayed janitors too well. I'll tell you what the shape of water is: none. It has no shape. (Like the majority of administrators.) If it fills your lungs, it is shaped like your lungs, and then things get worse from there. I am here to tell you, the water will rise no higher than the shoulders of a decade of wiki-laborers who came before you. If you stand on the shoulders of your peers, and seek the water line, you shall prevail (while admittedly drowning some of your peers, but that's fine, labour has always been expendable). Push off, and standing well in order, smite the sounding furrows. And don't worry about me, I am named after a buoyant object. Outriggr (talk) 05:43, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

• hello Outriggr. I had actually been wondering where you'd gone. Good to see you (I can neither confirm nor deny that I used to be Ling.Nut, and if I argued with you years ago, please consult the Witness Protection Agency for further details). Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 07:47, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Welcome back, mister! What a treat to see you again! Kafka Liz (talk) 13:40, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! I read the comic reco you gave to VE, you know. I don't read comics so that was different. Outriggr (talk) 00:39, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Now if we could just get Moni and The Fat Man back in here, it would stop being "boring as fuck for a number of years"! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:56, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

No kidding, I wouldn't mind taking ten years off and going back in time any way. 2007 me ain't 2018 me. Outriggr (talk) 00:39, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Growin' old ain't for sissies! But I will keep my new life, no matter. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:59, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

I now do things that I used to tease my grandfather for doing. 'Nuff said. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 06:27, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

"Growin' old ain't for sissies", yep and grr; I'd shake my stick at youngsters at FAC these days if I could summons the energy and wasnt blocked every other week. Yet in all these ten years, I sometimes wonder if I haven't changed anyway or learned a goddam thing. Not mired in as Joy Division as I was, so maybe that's some progress. Happily married, and now have in-laws in new England, which is always a pleasure to visit and her parents are carbon copies of why I married Liz in the first place - intellectual and socially liberal early Cure fans with a home filled with books, ‘Dark Money' was xmass gift this year and the Cloisters is a drive away. Have missed ye guys though, and thoughts go out. I remember back when I started here and was venturing into FAC/FAR, Sandy, Outriggr and Ling were all very established, and I was a squeaky voiced newb facing ye and the likes of Tony1 (the first person that tough me to care about writing proper like, and that since than I've always sought to please). I've gotten to know ye since, but the memory of Yoman still terrifies me, hes was so always goddamn correct, and knew too much. Oh and hello Outriggr also, you ask a valid question, and I often wonder, the actual f678 is going on myself. But, were the old days all so rosy in your memory? Of course not. A number of your quit rationals over the years sunk home, and lets face it came to roost; your not paranoid, your fears are true, they are out to exploit you, not promote The Shape of Water as best Canadian h2o based hybrid trans sex film of 2018, and this trend is evolving in linear progression. [fume], fucking people, but yes the analogy hits home. Anyhoow, Happy Saint Patricks blocked day man. Ceoil (talk) 22:53, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Sandy, the lamented Fat Man should take on Cruz in Texas in 2018; he's the only man for the job. As such, User:NeilN, can you unblock him from editing wikipedia. Thanks. Ceoil (talk) 08:22, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

ah, Ceoil, there's some good reading' ! Not sure myself if I am still awake at an ungodly hour because we did too much celebrating of the green (you know my most adorable hubby is Irish, no?), or if I'm still awake for worry and trying to compose what to say here after NYB's sensible move on the unsensible mess. Well, it seems that you have changed, because I figured we wouldn't see you for several days, and I thought I'd tiptoe in here tomorrow and try to offer encouragement, so I am relieved to see the post above. HA, selfishly, it means I can go to sleep now :)

I'm quite happy to know that you and Kafka Liz have more of the family near by.

While I am on the topic of sensible NYB and Yoman, did you know that Yoman used to send me a summary of every arbcase in 18 words? No, wait, it might have been 40 ... memory fails. They were THE BEST. Someday I will get over to my old yahoo account and dig them up for yucks and fun.

Well, I feel like I let you down. In hindsight, I might have weighed in more emphatically, with more concrete evidence, and in the olden days, I know I would have remembered to come back and request that the case be closed already, for gosh sakes. I didn't do all of that for three reasons. 1) Growin' old ain't for sissies-- I forgot-- I never actually planned to stick around here too long, because no sooner did I show up, then I got a taste of the unpleasant again, so here I am still :( I am kinda tired of letting the bullies win. 2) I've learned not to lay out all evidence on SPIs, because then the sockmasters know what you know about them, and can use it to evade detection. I coulda gone on for hours about the differences between you two in style, tone, composition, and Ceoil the prince versus that other pri ... but better not to. 3) At one point, I thought other editors would add evidence on other possible socks, so that leaving it open made sense. But I could have at least said they wrote baseball, and I am pretty sure that is not in your repertoire :).

Truthfully, we know the "good ole' days" were pretty much the same ... holy cow if you recall certain attacks on me and the years it took to see that person desysopped ... but today there are new bullies just the same as the old ones ... and then there's the history behind my little block log. WTH, why worry-- you, Ceoil, are defined by your writing, and few can compare. But seriously, we all did have more fun then ... I don't see too much of that anymore. So, here I am, awake, thinking about all of this and just wanting to say that your writing is something no one can take away from you, or us. All the best to both of you ... (Cruz is despicable, but he did stick up for Venezuela ... The Fat Man could turn that humorless ninny inside out.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:16, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Sandy dear, you could not have done more, really, and from here I want to say it was *very* much appreciated. Whats missing overall is leadership and top down guidance. Back in the day you codified standards of conduct as much as you set standards for editing quality. That is missing now, and yes we have NYB leading by example and with considerable authority, but he is few, and for eg Risker hardly edits anymore. I see the effect of this lack of direction everywhere, and the net result is chaos and admins jumping in with blocking as the only solution; examples include badge wearing process wonk CUs and arb clerks with preconceived misconceptions and no idea of the spirit of the law (remember Geogre, who predicted all of this), only the rule, and this myopic narrow process focus has reached into areas such as TFA (check out the horrible history of Witches' Sabbath (The Great He-Goat), which was waved before me more than once, most memorably as a carrot to agree that second runs at main page were a good idea for older pages (FAR was established for a reason). Whats happening here is a wild west situation close to when you got that warning on that day (note none of that editor cabal survived, far as I can tell they are all long gone now, but replaced by another group who dont know their history). </ blocked editor bitching>

So adults in the room. I dont see them very often these days, but did during the Geist SPI, *you* did the work for the CU, found the evidence, Tony discounted on linguistics, but Bbb23‎ was only interest in CIV, and refused to discuss the record he was leaving behind, on pain of block, which User:NeilN was only too happy to implement, also only based surface reading. I dont see how you could have dont more, rather than doing the CU homework, and pointing out the ridiculousness of the investigation, which as Tony pointed out did not pass DUCK.

In happier news, (unofficially) met some fellow wikipendians in London in 2017, and it was a delight. Not naming names, but some are widely respected authorities on most aspects of art history, others focus on composer bios, architecture or arctic travelers, and I don't think there was a fan of infoboxes in the room - though that battle seems like old hat now (Laser Brain's comments on this almost perfectly mirror my own). Still though it was happy days, and it was clear that wiki is still full indeed of very nice and interesting people, if you know where to look. Ceoil (talk) 14:11, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

BTY I did know you married an Irishman, and of course it makes sense, who wouldn't, and you were always very wise. Lucky luck you. Ceoil (talk) 14:17, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Just saying...I'm on the edge of total quitting; I'm staying on the edge but man oh man, has this place changed...Modernist (talk) 14:57, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

me too Modernist. We cant even share links anymore - did you see what happened to MartinEvansS. We found a shared interest in sly and robbie era Grace Jones and early 80s Ginger Baker, and from that he got indeffed. The hell about defend? Ceoil (talk) 15:02, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

@Modernist: 50-word summary of the reasons you're on the edge...? Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 15:04, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

St. Patrick's in prison --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:18, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

HA! Ceoil (talk) 08:23, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

You should probably stop listening to your enablers and figure out why you've been blocked for similar issues three times in the last three months by three different admins. You can go with "it's not meeeee, it's all them because they didn't see why I had to be disruptive!" but I doubt that's going to help you much in the future. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:10, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

See here, and Fram come close to deysop recently Enablers? In my 12 years here, that is the most bitter, offensive, sour and utterly uniformed message I've received. Actually, I have been doing quite well here..IN SPITE of ladder climbing CIV pricks like you. Go fuck people on FB where it doesnt matter or better, read up more before you wade in with bloated feet. Yes congrats, you got me to swear; its a slam dunk now, i'm sure Bbb23 will be impressed and will put a word for you. Ceoil (talk) 15:11, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Hey, I didn't plan to join the mob here today (was in the hospital last night), but .... Ok - as an enabler my advice to you is the same as the advice I gave Tony1, at least temporarily. Seriously. I have lots to say about that SPI, about keeping it open for two weeks waiting for your presence and then not liking what you had to say. I have lots to say about anyone who might make wrong assumptions (and may I say not understanding that spelling problem (sorry!)), but this isn't the time. As an enabler, I'd suggest going out for a little while. Fwiw. Victoriaearle (tk) 15:56, 18 March 2018 (UTC) Adding to the previous: if there's a good argument for an unblock request (I've not trawled through diffs to figure out what the hell happened) and if you want to be unblocked, then it might be useful for someone else to go to bat for you. I'll post more (probably elsewhere), later, when I'm feeling better. In the meantime, it's best for the blocking admin to back away. Victoriaearle (tk) 15:59, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

What was lacking was substance. Its not right to denigrate without cause, whatever badges you have collected. That is what this is about. The NeilN stuff is the usual lightweight disinterested trigger happy idiot bullshit, that typically can be seen mopping up after disaster like this; a tool but not really of concern. Ceoil (talk) 16:01, 18 March 2018 (UTC) ps delighterd to see you back. hope all is well V. Ceoil (talk) 16:08, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

I can't have this conversation right now, but the SPI was wrong, that it wasn't closed was wrong, waiting for your reply was wrong, etc. etc. I did post on my talk to TonyBallioni, (to no reply), I did dig into DCGeist's account and much to my surprise found some of the diffs Sandy went on to post (I didn't have the energy, so hats off to her), but in the end of the day this was baked in. Don't know what else to say. Nah, not great today. Victoriaearle (tk) 16:12, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

• NeilN, I am not sure that your presence here will result in anything fruitful. No offense.
• Hey C, what time is it in Ireland now?  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 15:42, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

  Five past rage quit o'clock, Ling. Ceoil (talk) 15:52, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

  I think it should be five past "Whatever, admin dude" o'clock. The silent, smiling kind. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 15:54, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Nice dream, but it's obvious that my block log is bait and grist to these people. That most of them were reversed is no matter, see a self reinforcing fallacy at work. My best option now is either clean start or VANISH. Ceoil (talk) 16:14, 18 March 2018 (UTC).

well yeah, but there's a time and a place to insist upon your innocence, and this ain't the time, and this ain't the place. Folksy wisdom at its finest, free of charge. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 16:19, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorry Ling, but I have to disagree. Ceoil isn't a sock, and the SPI caused the latest drama. So in that case he should be allowed to defend himself and declare his innocence. All the block achieved was to add much fuel to a fire. Ceoil, no clean starting, no vanishing. Please. Victoriaearle (tk) 16:36, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Ling - 50 words....hurricane....health....art....crazy lunatics in power....art....hurricane....blizzards....tickets....highways....memories...vivid links....crazy lunatics in power...misunderstanding....continuously erasing worthwhile imagery....and information....the rules....the road...deleting the best....misreading between the lines....unforgettable nonsense...endless and mindless disruptions...following the rules...images undone....Modernist (talk) 23:43, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Clean start is out of the question with your spelling unless it's been an act all these years. Deep cover. Cylon stuff (the newer ones, not the classic red eye, "by your command", disco model). Best wishes, the ever-correct and all-knowing, Yomangani^talk 00:02, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

"I see you are trying to spell something. Would yew like hellp with that? Thew to be hornets I don't have a clew what you are triing to speel and I'm not the Clippet I was be four the accident."

ay, caray, look who's here! Yoman, I know people who are still amazed at your query that Chavez's vergatorio cellphone was the equivalent of a dick-ta-phone. So great to see your name in print again! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:36, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Oh dear, rumbled. There are other editors that write in Corkonian idiom Yomangnai that I could blame all it on (we were lucky to get this one IP address and a copy of IE2 back in 1996). And we are jest as god maid as, like, boy. Ceoil (talk) 19:29, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Sláinte!

I like mine spiked with fine Kentucky Bourbon, but Irish Whiskey works just as well! Sláinte!  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 07:20, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

I've never liked spirits myself, but hear from wifey and her dad that Kentucy beats Irish whiskey. Sláinte back. Bty, think I have the hang of snf on the Cloisters, so thanks there. Ceoil (talk) 07:26, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

• I'll come back and look at Cloisters some day soon, I hope. There seems to be a temporary lull in the combat which was sucking up all my attention. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 07:41, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Oh dont worry, the heavy lifting was done by you and I can take it from here (my seeming rage quit not withstanding - actually I just wanted gremlins off my page). I agree with your refocus, its a good call, and I'd prefer to see your energies there. Sarah may be blunt at times, but she has a lot of direction to offer, and my experience has been tough at times, but ultimately rewarding. I'd thank you for the pint, but in interestingly carnt do that while blocked, poor me. Sob. Ceoil (talk) 07:45, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Umm...oh dear. not sure what to say. Hope yer st paddy's day was a good one....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:29, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article review/Mount Tambora/archive1

Greetings, do you think you'll have time to do some prose rewriting on Mount Tambora? Eric Corbett has raised concerns about the subpar prose of the article and I don't have the stamina for a large scale rewrite. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:29, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, but it may be a few hours yet before I get to it; I'm a bit blocked atm :) Ceoil (talk) 12:47, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Try to remember always

[1] Kafka Liz (talk) 22:33, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Noted and liked Elizabeth my dear. Ceoil (talk) 22:40, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Did I link this before? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:00, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

No but thanks, I am also of a certain age. Back at you Cas [2]. Ceoil (talk) 10:11, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

March 2018

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you make personal attacks on other people, as you did at Talk:Michael Collins (Irish leader). Comment on content, not on fellow editors. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:40, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Which would be the personal attack then BrownHairedGirl? You need diffs to back up statements like that. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:59, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

...or did you see the word DUCK and thought it was DICK? You know, I do that all the time. Ever since i passed 50, I can't read diddly jack without my glasses. Have to increase the font size immodestly all the time. Embarrassing. But that's life. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 12:48, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Given this report filed by Scolaire I'd say he's extremely unlikely to also be the IP he's reported... Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 12:58, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

• Calling someone an IP is not a blockable offense. It's a misperception, at worst. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 13:01, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
  • It would have been of at least minor assistance to the general good will if editors were not accused of drunken tirades...you know, the more true it may be, the worse an insult it is. Hey, Ceoil, you interested in deposing English Kings by any chance?! My latest bit of work, still being polished, but any advice gratefully received. Same at you there, Lingzhi. Take care all, and happy Sunday! —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 13:11, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
• Yes, not seeing the attack here. Ok - that. Well I think that hypothesis is massively unlikely, as Scolaire's latest edit there suggests. Also he has reported that IP (for the 2nd time I think). You might remove that bit. Johnbod (talk) 13:15, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
• But sure seeing the problems with the IP, and the admin action. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:25, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Excuse me? "Your actions here, playing both sides, are most hypocritical." "I earlier took you on the strength of argument, seems I was wrong and an unfocused belligerence was more at play." "Ha ha, you are were looking for reassurance and validation, having come off badly as you often do on many other articles. So tell the rest to somebody that cant see through such transparent behavior." "Dear god help us all if you and Hrodvarsson are setting the standard of what wiki is capable of." "Why have you been so shrill and hysterical on this talk." What do you have to say to be guilty of a personal attack? Maybe all of you have been reading the wrong section. To paraphrase Ceoil, you need to cross-check a few facts before wading in. Scolaire (talk) 14:30, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

See my block log :) —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 14:38, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

• More than that. Those look impolite, perhaps, but not a personal attack. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 14:36, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm glad I don't have any friendly interraction with you, then! Scolaire (talk) 14:38, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

A personal attack sounds like this: "I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries." Classic, that. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 14:40, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

^{<plaintive voice>}...Err, is there anybody else we could talk to...? —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 14:46, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm very glad I don't have any friendly interraction with you, then! Scolaire (talk) 14:47, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

• @Scolaire: On the contrary, I am a very nice person. I have a note from my mother that says so, and can produce it on demand. Meanwhile, this: I do believe Michael Collins is symbolic of an identity issue. Identity issues are fertile ground for short tempers and intractable positions. it might be better if you found an American (not me) or a Canadian or Australian or someone to figure out the WP:RS and other issues. Someone who isn't personally connected. And so on. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 15:11, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

I think it's great that you all rally round your buddy when he's threatened with a block. I just can't escape the feeling that if it was me that had said those things to him, every one of you would be baying for my blood at ANI. There's no question that that is what he was hoping for. He just happened to pick an admin that wasn't part of his buddy network and wasn't afraid to call it like she saw it. There is no "identity issue" at Michael Collins, only behavioural issues. Any content questions – and none of them revolve around identity – are being civilly discussed on the talk page. Scolaire (talk) 19:57, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Given this[3] edit, I was wrong to have associated Scolaire with the IP and the general state of the article. Mistakes were made, and I have apologied, this was a needlessly bitter experience. Ceoil (talk) 20:33, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps so, and since you seem to be learning from your mistakes, maybe you will address your insults and personal attacks toward me at Talk:Macroom where you have reverted my attempts to archive them, among other dubious statements. An apology and strike through would indicate good faith on your part. Thanks. Jusdafax (talk) 21:12, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks yourself Jusdafax. What a low opportunistic blow, but hardly out of character. My only mistake with you was one time entertaining your vindictive bullshit on talk for a brief moment, which I bitterly regret, and must remember not to do again. Hows that for learning from mistakes? Ceoil (talk) 21:59, 25 March 2018 (UTC)