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Gotell & Dutton, 2016

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Gotell, Lise; Dutton, Emily (2016). "Sexual Violence in the 'Manosphere': Antifeminist Men's Rights Discourses on Rape". International Journal for Crime, Justice and Social Democracy. 5 (2): 65–80. doi:10.5204/ijcjsd.v5i2.310.

This (free to read) source could be useful for the article, as it has a good amount of material on the topic and can be freely used under a Creative Commons license. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I remember coming across it in my research but for some reason I had doubts about its reliability. Can't for the life of me remember why now, though. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:09, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Johanssen, 2021

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Johanssen, Jacob (2021). Fantasy, Online Misogyny and the Manosphere: Male Bodies of Dis/Inhibition. Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781003031581. ISBN 978-1-003-03158-1.

From the online abstract: "This book presents the first in-depth study of online misogyny and the manosphere from a psychoanalytic perspective." Could be useful for building the article. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 01:14, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Manosphere has been associated with mass shootings etc. Really?

I've just made an edit & had it reverted for reasons I don't understand so thought I'd raise it here.

The article makes this rather extravagant claim (twice):
It has also been associated with online harassment as well as some mass shootings and other real-world acts of violence, and has been implicated in radicalizing men into committing violence against women.

As it stands (after reversion & editing) that claim is supported by a fruit salad of references. I've checked the ones available to me & read the abstracts of the others. My comclusion is:

None of the research cited supports the claim about mass shootings.
None of the research cited supports the claim about real-world violence.
The phrase "has been associated with" makes the claim essentially meaningless. One could make a similar claim about Santa Claus.
Likewise "has been implicated in"
The article as a whole has a political flavour rather than factual. Not what I'd like to see on Wikipedia.

Let me know if I'm wrong otherwise I will put my change back. Tony999 (talk) 07:27, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@GorillaWarfare: I've taken a quick look at a couple of the sources, and not yet found any direct mention of the shootings; I think Tony999 may have a point. There are sources elsewhere associating the manosphere with shootings, but as far as I can see, these are more about generic radicalization than specific acts of violence. We should at the very least break these cites out into separate references so that each can be associated with the relevant claim. -- The Anome (talk) 08:08, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@GorillaWarfare and Tony999: I've now split out the claims about mass shootings, and supplied relevant cites for those claims. I hope this resolves the issue. -- The Anome (talk) 08:44, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks fine to me. I've done a minor cleanup edit just to match the citation style. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 17:56, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Did you just work backwards from the claim you wanted to make to find something to support it? Surely, that’s not the way this is supposed to work? More generally I’ve looked at a few of the references in the article & I find that the scholarship falls short of normal Wikipedia standards.

But my main issue is that even a casual reader would see that this article is palpably different to a normal Wikipedia entry. It is judgemental and relies on guilt by association and vague insinuations. While many in the Wikipedia community doubtless share the position taken by the article, the fact is that there are two sides to this issue and only one is reflected in the article as it stands.

I propose that the article should be rewritten form scratch by someone impartial. Better a brief, uncontroversial article than a biased one – it’s not worth compromising Wikipedia’s reputation for this. Tony999 (talk) 07:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
 :{{ping|GorillaWarfare|Tony999}} I've now split out the claims about mass shootings, and supplied relevant cites for those claims. I hope this resolves the issue. -- [[User:The Anome|The Anome]] ([[User talk:The Anome|talk]]) 08:44, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 ::Looks fine to me. I've done a minor cleanup edit just to match the citation style. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;(she/her&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|talk]]) 17:56, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
+Did you just work backwards from the claim you wanted to make to find something to support it? Surely, that’s not the way this is supposed to work? More generally I’ve looked at a few of the references in the article & I find that the scholarship falls short of normal Wikipedia standards.
+But my main issue is that even a casual reader would see that this article is palpably different to a normal Wikipedia entry. It is judgemental and relies on guilt by association and vague insinuations. While many in the Wikipedia community doubtless share the position taken by the article, the fact is that there are two sides to this issue and only one is reflected in the article as it stands.
+I propose that the article should be rewritten form scratch by someone impartial. Better a brief, uncontroversial article than a biased one – it’s not worth compromising Wikipedia’s reputation for this.
+[[User:Tony999|Tony999]] ([[User talk:Tony999|talk]]) 07:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)