Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 16

< December 15

December 17 >

December 16

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on December 16, 2021.

Phi Kappa Alpha (local)

• Phi Kappa Alpha (local) → Freed–Hardeman University#Student life  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

There are now six groups with a reasonable claim to the name Phi Kappa Alpha, and for clarity I've created that as a DAB (setindex). The Freed-Hardeman University group had captured two variants of the name for an article that merely goes to a section of the university's article. It will be more clear to delete these so readers have to choose at the DAB page level. Jax MN (talk) 23:33, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Phi kappa alpha

• Phi kappa alpha → Freed–Hardeman University#Student life  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

We've determined there are at least six groups with this name. I've created a DAB (setindex) page with all of them, at Phi Kappa Alpha, including "Freed-Hardeman". It makes this redirect unnecessary and confusing on two counts. First, the use of lower case is confusing here, and normally not done for Greek Letter Organization articles. Second, because Phi Kappa Alpha (local) already redirects to it, it is duplicative and would certainly merit a merger, if not deletion of both. (Note: In light of the DAB I will ask to delete that second redirect, also, with an additional request.) Jax MN (talk) 23:30, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:YELL

• Wikipedia:YELL → Wikipedia:Assume good faith  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

As far as I can see, this page has only be referred to once but it's strange because it occurred in 2013 and this page was only created in October 2021. I don't think it is known to be a redirect or what the connection is between yelling and assuming good faith. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:19, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

I agree that isn’t a good target. Maybe the target of WP:SHOUT would be better but I have my doubts.--65.93.193.134 (talk) 06:21, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

• Retarget to Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#shouting, like the redirect WP:SHOUT. I also don't really see the connection between "Yell" and the current target, seems like it would Surprise anyone linking to it. 192.76.8.80 (talk) 10:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Mr. Biggs

• Mr. Biggs → Mr Bigg's  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Mr. Bigg's → Mr Bigg's  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Mr. Bigg → Mr Bigg's  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

"Mr Biggs" is a Nigerian fastfood restaurant chain and a stage name of Ronald Isley. It seems that Isley is the primary topic. I think that variations of Mr/Mr. and Bigg/Biggs/Bigg's should all go to the same place - either to Isley with a hatnote there to the restaurant, or maybe to a dab. MB 21:37, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

• Retarget "Biggs" versions to Biggs (Disambiguation) and add "Biggs" and "Bigg's" entries there. Retarget "Bigg" versions to Bigg (Disambiguation) and add "Bigg" and "Bigg's" entries there. Link the two dab pages to each other. -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 00:04, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Validity of Catholic Church Authority

• Validity of Catholic Church Authority → Sacred tradition  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I do not know what it this redirect is supposed to refer to, and what is mentioned in the Catholic Church section of the article it leads to does not relate to the redirect. Therefore, I recommend deletion. Veverve (talk) 20:19, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Zero-level projection

• Zero-level projection → Head (linguistics)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned at the target, GScholar suggests this phrase is common across many disciplines, not just linguistics. Delete unless justification can be provided _signed, Rosguill ^talk 18:49, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

• Keep Head (linguistics)#X-bar trees has the description "It is head-initial insofar as the head X⁰ precedes its complement...", and "X⁰" and "zero-level projection" stand for exactly the same thing. Google Scholar - "zero-level projection" gives us many hits, and everything but the first ("Atomic resolution blahblah") is on linguistics. I don't believe this is enough for one to consider the term cross-disciplinary (although I wouldn't disagree if someone familiar with math disambiguates it). Google Scholar - "zero-level category" has even more hits (note that "ZL category" is terminologically more neutral than "ZL projection" because the latter is obsolete as the X-bar theory, from which it originates, has itself been replaced by the Minimalist program.) --Dragoniez (talk) 19:43, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Update: I changed the redirect target to X-bar theory#Projection. --Dragoniez (talk) 01:05, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Retarget to X-bar theory#Projection. --Dragoniez (talk) 20:30, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I have reverted the change of target done when the discussion was on.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 18:07, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

• Retarget per Dragoniez, now that the term has been explicitly defined there. I don't see a lot of uses online that aren't related to generative grammar, and there appear to be none here on Wikipedia. – Uanfala (talk) 15:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

'nam

• 'nam → Vietnam War  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Previous RfDs for this redirect and similar redirects:

• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 August 17 § 'nam – retarget to Vietnam War

Should we change this redirect to Vietnam or some other page, keep its target as it is, or delete it? ☢️Plutonical☢️ᶜᵒᵐᵐᵘⁿᶦᶜᵃᵗᶦᵒⁿˢ 14:19, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Keep, 'Nam is a common nickname for the Vietnam War [1], [2], [3], [4]. Loafiewa (talk) 14:46, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• Weak delete - I think when this term is used it's more usually in reference to the war than the country itself, so I think the target is correct. But I doubt it's a common search term so I'm minded to delete on that basis. WaggersTALK 14:46, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• Retarget to Nam (disambiguation) and add Vietnam and Vietnam War there; There's already and entry for The 'Nam. -- 65.92.246.43 (talk) 14:54, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget, but directly to Nam, which is where the dab page is precisely located; might as well cover all of the bases with this one. Hog Farm _Talk 20:43, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
• Keep as a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to the war, consistent with 'Nam. However, if this is retargeted, 'Nam should be retargeted similarly. Mdewman6 (talk) 00:54, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
• Comment - It does not seem that much has changed since Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 August 17#'nam. — Godsy ^(TALK_CONT) 12:14, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:RCAPS, although the first letter after ' is case-sensitive. 2405:9800:BA31:F6:BC3F:ED78:C130:2209 (talk) 07:26, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget killer bee  12:31, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Added the previous RfD. Also note that 65.92.246.43 has added Vietnam and Vietnam War to the Nam dab page as per their own suggestion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 17:42, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Simon Christopher Joseph Fraser, 15th Lord Lovat

• Simon Christopher Joseph Fraser, 15th Lord Lovat → Simon Fraser, 13th Lord Lovat  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Formerly used in Lord Lovat as redirect to the 13th Lord (which is by some considered the 15th): the fact is the actual 15th Lord Lovat is a different person (a WWII veteran born in 1911, as the text itself says). I fixed the link in Lord Lovat, now the redirect is quite useless as it is not mentioned as target by any page and IMHO should be deleted. Leofbrj (talk) 14:07, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

• Retarget to Lord Lovat and delete the circular wikilink. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:08, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 14:43, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Christmas parade

• Christmas parade → Santa Claus parade  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

DELETE per WP:REDLINK; as determined from the discussion on the talk page Talk:Santa Claus parade, this article is about Santa Claus parades and not Christmas parades in general. Therefore the redirect is misleading, and should be redlinked to encourage creation of an article on the general topics. -- 65.92.246.43 (talk) 03:34, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• KEEP - At most only half of the parades discussed in the body of the Santa Claus parade article talks are actually named "Santa Claus parade". The rest have various names, including Thanksgiving Day parade, Christmas parade, etc., and it's not at all clear whether Santa Claus is even featured in them. Someone who looks up "Christmas parade" in Wikipedia ought to be redirected to the Santa Claus parade article which has at least some information about the concept rather being sent to a search page on which "Santa Claus parade" may or may not be the first entry listed. As far as thinking that seeing a redlink in an article will encourage someone to create a "Christmas parade" article, it's likely that the new article would contain much of the same information as the Santa Claus one since that one is so unfocused. Indyguy (talk) 04:48, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Consensus was determined on the talk page, that the article is about Santa parades and not Christmas parades in general. Thus, this redirect is inappropriate. -- 65.92.246.43 (talk) 15:06, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• Keep: The article clearly mentions the redirect title in the lead, suggesting that this is a probable search term (unless if for some reason the alternate title is not correct). Aasim (talk) 01:03, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
  • That is the point. It is incorrect because Christmas parades do not always have Santas, thus "Christmas parade" is a greater topic, and not restricted to Santa parades. It would be like redirecting President of the United States to Donald Trump, he is one president, but not all presidents. Thus this is one type of Christmas parade, but not all types of Christmas parade. -- 65.92.246.43 (talk) 02:43, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
• Delete and enjoy the red link. Christmas parades aren't all about Santa, you know. Chumpih. (talk) 22:37, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 13:46, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. Veverve (talk) 21:06, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Size

• Wikipedia:Size → Wikipedia:Size of Wikipedia  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I sampled pages linking to the redirect. I found that users refer it to the other page Wikipedia:Article size. Furthermore, WP:SIZE currently redirects to that page. To avoid confusion, especially from those wanting to just lowercase "size" while typing, the "Size" should also redirect, i.e. retarget, to "Wikipedia:Article size". Alternatively, it can become a disambiguation page, but I'm unsure whether it would be often referred to the "size of Wikipedia" itself. George Ho (talk) 18:15, 1 December 2021 (UTC); edited, 23:09, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

• Disambiguate -- 65.92.246.43 (talk) 02:53, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
• Disambiguate makes sense. I refer to article size a few times a year, and the size of Wikipedia is more of a fun-to-know thing that doesn't help editors. But it's pretty neat and worth not hiding either. Remembering that I need to type ARTICLESIZE insteaf of SIZE uses extra brain cells I can't spare. If no disambig, SIZE should go to the article size page. Herostratus (talk) 05:07, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget to Wikipedia:Article size and remedy the 94 existing links to the page as necessary. This would be an arguable case for disambiguation given the broad and simple nature of the term. However, over 3500 extant links exist to WP:SIZE (making it unwise to change both due to the required labor and the trouble it would cause for this who use this regularly; unfortunately this seems to have developed a primacy and it is therefore too late for what would be ideal projectspace disambiguation in this case), and the upper and lowercase version should practically point to the same place. WP:SIZEWP and WP:WPSIZE would serve well as projectspace shortcuts for the current target. Moreover, a hatnote listing the current target (and anything else relevant enough) can be placed at WP:Article size as a navigational aid for those who may be looking for a different page. — Godsy ^(TALK_CONT) 07:51, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 02:57, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• Retarget: Per above. Aasim (talk) 01:04, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 13:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Cyanide gas

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was speedy keep. There's no point in opening another RfD for this redirect when the previous one was closed just two weeks ago, and especially considering how everyone overwhelmingly supported the status quo. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris ^talk! 09:45, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

• Cyanide gas → Hydrogen cyanide  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

Previous RfDs for this redirect and similar redirects:

• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 4 § Cyanide gas – keep

It seems to have multiple terms that called as "cyanide gas". Retarget to Cyanide, or Delete to search results. 49.48.147.206 (talk) 07:54, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Mobile-only bank

• Mobile-only bank → Neobank  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

While all mobile-only services may be online-only, not all online-only services are mobile-only. The target article doesn't specifically mention online banking services that can only be used through smartphones. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 22:27, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 06:49, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Mucholapka

• Mucholapka → Die Glocke  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No idea why this is targetting Die Glocke (hoax) or Die Glocke. —Kusma (talk) 22:12, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per below. This is the nickname of a ruined structure in Poland that is apparently associated with urban legends (or hoaxes?) that may be related to Die Glocke [5]. Still, that's not discussed in the article, and as far as I can see is unlikely to ever be. – Uanfala (talk) 23:40, 8 December 2021 (UTC) This is being discussed at greater length below: #The Henge. – Uanfala (talk) 00:01, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
• Weak delete. As SpinningSpark observed below, we have a mention of the topic at Miłków, Lower Silesian Voivodeship, so that looks like a potential target. However, there remains some uncertainty about the best place on Wikipedia for the topic to be described, and about whether this topic should be described in the first place. Better content may get added to a different article, or it may get removed from Miłków, Lower Silesian Voivodeship altogether – the search results would automatically reveal the suitable target, if there is one, and they also happen to provide a navigational path to the Wiktionary entry for the much more common generic meaning of the word. – Uanfala (talk) 00:13, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget to Miłków, Lower Silesian Voivodeship. This is a Polish word meaning Flytrap. It is referring to the same structure in Die Glocke called The Henge. The article on the Polish village is the best place to make that connection. SpinningSpark 17:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Muchotapka

• Muchotapka → Die Glocke  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No idea why this is targetting Die Glocke (hoax) or Die Glocke. —Kusma (talk) 22:12, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

• Delete. I can see no relation to the purported weapon, and there's certainly nothing in the article (either now or in the version at the time the redirect was created) to suggest otherwise. – Uanfala (talk) 23:36, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

  The t in Muchotapka appears to be a visual misspelling for the ł in Muchołapka (see above). Still, that's not discussed in the target article. – Uanfala (talk) 23:41, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

  This is being discussed at greater length below: #The Henge. – Uanfala (talk) 00:01, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• Not a fan of misspelling ł as t. —Kusma (talk) 10:41, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
• Delete: we don't seem to ever create redirects with t for ł. – Uanfala (talk) 23:59, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
• Delete, we shouldn't encourage misspellings, especially stupid ones. SpinningSpark 17:44, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

The Henge

• The Henge → Die Glocke#The Henge  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Target section in Die Glocke (hoax) (I just moved the article so Die Glocke can target the more notable real things at Glocke) was removed ten years ago. At present, this is just confusing. Delete. —Kusma (talk) 22:10, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

• Comment, although this has been removed from an article about a hoax, I'm pretty sure this is a genuine Nazi-era structure of unknown purpose [6]. The Polish name Mucholapka (Fly Trap) redirects to the same place and appears to be a synonym for the same thing. I'm surprised that Wikipedia does not have an article on this. Miłków, Lower Silesian Voivodeship mentions "Mucholapka" and could make a suitable retarget for both redirects. I'm still looking to see if we have anything better on it. SpinningSpark 23:40, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
  • It seems to be part of Project Riese, [7] but it's not mentioned in that article as far as I can tell. SpinningSpark 23:56, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
    • Ah, either of these articles would be a potentially suitable target. But is that sort of stuff worth mentioning there? The Polish article for the village pl:Miłków (województwo dolnośląskie), which is better developed than the English one, doesn't seem to mention it. – Uanfala (talk) 23:59, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
      • I've added something to Project Riese with anchors so The Henge, Mucholapka, and the correct spelling Muchołapka can be redirected to Project Riese#The Henge, Project Riese#Mucholapka, and Project Riese#Muchołapka respectively. Not so sure about the misspelling Muchotapka, redirecting misspellings can wrongly confirm them to the user. I'm also going to raise on Die Glocke talk page why the whole description section has been killed. It's the reason all these redirects have gone dead and I don't think that was helpful. SpinningSpark 17:49, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
• Comment it can be retargetted to Henge (disambiguation), and both Project Riese and Die Glocke (hoax) can be added there. -- 65.92.246.43 (talk) 02:46, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
  • "The Henge" is a proper name, so should have a proper target, and you can't add an entry to a disambiguation page that doesn't discuss it. SpinningSpark 14:32, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
• Retarget to Henge (disambiguation). "Henge" is a common word so it's likely that any number of structures could be referred to as "the henge". I don't think the capitalisation is enough to disambiguate here (all the more so given that this particular henge appears to be extremely obscure). Even if we stick to proper nouns, there are other entities with the name mentioned on Wikipedia, for example, the sculpture by David Harding. The dab page can be expanded with an appropriate entry for the Polish structure if relevant content is added to an article (so far, Miłków, Lower Silesian Voivodeship seems like the best place for that). – Uanfala (talk) 17:09, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
• Keep. Something on the structure has been readded to the article after a discussion at Talk:Die Glocke (hoax)#Description section. I don't agree with retargetting to the dab page. If a reader searches for the capitalised title or clicks on a capitalised link then they are looking for something with that as a proper name, not something else called a henge. SpinningSpark 17:43, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
  • But keeping pointed at Die Glocke (hoax) implies that the structure in Poland is primary with respect to the other things that are referred to by the proper noun the Henge, like David Harding's sculpture. – Uanfala (talk) 22:56, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
    • There are no entries at all on the disambiguation page for "The Henge". SpinningSpark 23:16, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
      • If there are no entries worthy of including on the dab page, then the redirect should be deleted. If, on the other hand, it gets decided in in this discussion that any topics (like the one the structure in Poland) are worth providing navigation for, then, obviously, the relevant entries will be added to the dab page as a result of the discussion. – Uanfala (talk) 12:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
        • I don't think our decisions should be driven by the contents of a newly created dab page. SpinningSpark 15:43, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
          • Exactly! – Uanfala (talk) 21:41, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 00:24, 16 December 2021 (UTC)