Talk:Hawaiian pizza

Italy

I added a line reporting how Italy is disgusted by this "dish", and my edit was reverted. It is still considered ( although we Italians are offended by) a variety of pizza, and so the opinion most diffused in the country should be present in the article, otherwise it would be fair not to call it even "pizza".--62.10.49.89 (talk) 10:00, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Politicians and celebs expressing their distaste for Hawaiian Pizza - just an attempt to appeal to the youth

If you read the article, you would come to the conclusion, that some remarks of the Icelandic president in 2017 and the following statements were the start of a public cultural debate about Hawaiian pizza. However, the disgust about putting pineapple on pizza (or defending it) was already a popular topic in internet culture back then, and those politicians clearly just jumped on the bandwagon. That should be made clear in the article. --2A02:1210:248C:1500:3022:84FF:D9D7:AC37 (talk) 15:07, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Information Literacy and Scholarly Discourse

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 7 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): KMD2022, Shoelace01, TruLegend3 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Mlclark1, Vmcostan, Theonly.tywhite, Tmjacks7, Ryandelorbe.

— Assignment last updated by Dsackey (talk) 18:13, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Breakdown of toppings

I would like to added a breakdown of the traditional toppings on Hawaiian pizza. Maybe adding a section on ideal cheese blends that would create the ultimate cheese traits and flavors. Like what blend of cheese create the best textures or what cheese blends pair well with the Hawaiian style pizza. Shoelace01 (talk) 20:28, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

"Cheese" Section proposal: (I have references on one of my sandboxes)

“The most common [cheeses used as a topping for pizzas] are Mozzarella, Provolone, Parmesan, and Romano”. Hawaiian pizzas are “often blended with mozzarella” because of the texture mozzarella cheese has once it's baked in the oven. Mozzarella and aged cheddar cheese blended on Hawaiian pizza creates “better texture and flavor characteristics” overall because this blend results in an “increased production of organic acids, and proteolytic”. Mozzarella specifically “has ideal melting and stretching properties” and “it has just enough moisture to brown and bubble without burning as the pizza bakes”. Adding "a water-soaking pretreatment step [to] low-fat and fat-free [mozzarella] cheese shreds” helps improve the characteristic of Hawaiian pizza pies. Mozzarella is “molded into spheres or ovals and stored in water to keep it moist” allowing the cheese to be processed, shipped, and sold without spoiling. This process allows pizza makers to prolong its shelf life, permitting them to store larger quantities of mozzarella.

Shoelace01 (talk) 15:25, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Origin of Hawaiian Pizza

The article begins claiming that it originated in Canada (with a whopping SIX citations, potentially violating WP:OVERCITE).

However, in the archives of the talk section, a two users noted that the original sources were uncited and lead to circular references, as other websites cited the original unsourced claim, and the article began citing those websites. Furthermore, additional research has come about casting doubt on the original claim.

This link shows many references to both Hawaiian Pizza, pineapple on pizza, and the combination of pineapple and pork products on pizza, well before the claimed creation in 1962. Furthermore, it would not be a stretch for Mr. Panopoulos to have claimed inventing Hawaiian Pizza as it would likely drive traffic to his restaurant. I would argue that this article be rewritten to mention the many instances of variations of Hawaiian Pizza before Mr. Panopoulos's claimed creation, and not speak so definitively on the origins of the style of pizza. 50.193.29.109 (talk) 23:19, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

The citations were an intentional choice by the editors. This article received many vandalisms and people simply didn't believe it was a Canadian dish given the name "Hawaiian". The amount of credible source here is appropriate.

Your link (source) is a blog - not a credible source as opposed to the ones we display on this article including BBC, CBC, the Guardian, and Globe and Mail. Your source's author also describes himself as "life-long resident of Massachusetts, a licensed attorney, and have been involved in food and wine writing for about 16 years" so he has the inherent incentive to claim the dish is not Canadian - similar to what you're suggesting. His background as a lawyer and simple "involvement in food and wine writing" proves he is not an expert or food historian. Your points about how the current citations are based off unoriginal website is false. Please read the articles. Also, "additional research has come casting doubt" - you did not provide any research and the reality is any credible source out there points to it being a Canadian dish. If anything, over the years, there are even more credible research/articles solidifying the dish being Canadian.

Your speculation that "Mr. Panopoulos" to claim to drive traffic to his restaurant is pure guess. That's your own opinion. Ultimately, the overwhelming credible research provided in this article proving this is a Canadian along with other editors consensus will prompt this article to stay the way it is. - Kazuha1029 (talk) 01:23, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

The first addition of the claim of Canadian creation to the article occurred here [1]. The first citation added to that claim was the Village Voice, who cited Wikipedia as the source of the claim, and by their own admission was unable to substantiate the claims outside of speaking to Mr. Panopoulos himself. In the next few citations added, in this version of the article, the National Post cites Wikipedia and Mr. Panopoulos, the Chatham Daily News cites Mr. Panopoulos alone, the Sun and [London Free Press which are both the same article cites Wikipedia and Mr. Panopoulos.

In the most recent version of the article, the BBC only cites Mr. Panopoulos here; TIME cites the BBC article , the CBC only cites Mr. Panopoulos; Business Insider cites the CBC article, Mr. Panopoulos, and Atlas Obscura which only cites Mr. Panopoulos; The Globe and Mail cites the CBC article, and even mentions the original unsourced claim from Wikipedia and the Village Voice article; and finally The Guardian cites the BBC and the CBC articles.

Many of the earliest citations referenced Wikipedia itself, violating WP:CIRCULAR. None of the articles cited in the current version of the article perform any research deeper than an interview of the person in question, violating WP:PRIMARY - there are no menus from back then, there are no news articles back then discussing the dish, there are no advertisements featuring the dish, et cetera. The blog post I linked includes references to instances of the term "Hawaiian pizza" and pineapple on pizza existing before the alleged creation in 1962. I have contacted the blog post writer requesting direct links to the references and will add to this talk page if I receive them.

To discount the blog writer as being non-credible due to his background is as to claim that you are biased for being a Canadian citizen, which I would not claim and do not believe. Regardless of his background, he has referenced many sources which would meet reliability standards on their own - please read his blog post. Further, to say that his incentives to claim the dish is not Canadian is on par the incentive that Mr. Panopoulos would have to claim to be the inventor of the dish is a false equivalency - one is performing research for a personal blog, and the other was laying claim to an internationally famous dish. 50.193.29.109 (talk) 18:43, 28 April 2023 (UTC)