Talk:Siege of Szigetvár: Difference between revisions

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thanks, but revert of very big WP:Wall of text, this is not the use of the talk page
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:::The information has been presented and I will let the experienced editors do what they want. [[User:NikolaZrinski|NikolaZrinski]] ([[User talk:NikolaZrinski|talk]]) 13:03, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:::The information has been presented and I will let the experienced editors do what they want. [[User:NikolaZrinski|NikolaZrinski]] ([[User talk:NikolaZrinski|talk]]) 13:03, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::::I put back what I removed because I deleted the sources and that the user Siroxo is not his fault but mine. Let more experienced historians check this, that's why I invited them to join the conversation and edit the page. I don't want to comment on the rest of what you wrote, I don't know.[[Special:Contributions/83.131.65.132|83.131.65.132]] ([[User talk:83.131.65.132|talk]]) 13:42, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::::I put back what I removed because I deleted the sources and that the user Siroxo is not his fault but mine. Let more experienced historians check this, that's why I invited them to join the conversation and edit the page. I don't want to comment on the rest of what you wrote, I don't know.[[Special:Contributions/83.131.65.132|83.131.65.132]] ([[User talk:83.131.65.132|talk]]) 13:42, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

== Book recommendation ==

Nikola Zrinski is a personal hero of mine and thus my username is NikolaZrinski. I have researched and read many books to get a full understanding of what happened at Szigetvar in 1566. The Wikipedia article is a mere shadow of the full glory f the story. If you are interested in more, read “Podsjedanje i osvojenje Sigeta i popratni tekstovi” by Ferenc Črnko, 1971. This is a translation into modern Croatian from the original. Another good source is Matija Mesić's biography of Nikola Zrinski - "Život Nikole Zrinjskog sigetskog junaka" in the three book collection "Opsada Sigeta: edited by Milan Ratković. Brne Karnarutić, 1971.

Obviously few people will be able to read these books. Anyone that is interested in the full story of the Siege of Szigetvar, and does not mind reading "self-published books" which on Wikipedia have no "credibility", read this: "[https://www.amazon.com/dp/1999232801/ As Only True Men Can: Nikola Zrinski's Last Stand at Sziget]" If someone took this story and turned it into a TV series it could be better than Game of Thrones - IMHO. [[User:NikolaZrinski|NikolaZrinski]] ([[User talk:NikolaZrinski|talk]]) 13:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

== Story as told by Davenport - if anyone wants to add ==

After being so warmly "welcomed" here, I would like to see this grand story improved but I do not feel like investing time and effort when some "editor" who is neither a Croat, nor a subject matter expert in Croatian history or this story, can delete much work in a matter of seconds on the basis of a subjective bias. While I have passion for the story, and am an amaeru subject matter expert, I will provide interesting data but will let the "editors" do what they want.

The first story is by Richard Davenport. I do not know if this book qualifies as "Wiki Credible". Though it is published, the chapter does not provide references for sources. The "editors" can decide what is credible.


Richard Alfred Davenport, [https://books.google.ca/books?id=ZogDAAAAQAAJ&pg=265 “Narratives of Peril and Suffering”], Volume 2, 
printed in London for Thomas Tegg, 1840.  

“In the voluminous annals of warfare there are few events marked by circumstances of a more romantic kind than those which occurred at the siege of Sziget, in 1566.  The Hungarian fortress of Sziget, or Szigetvár, which means the town of islands, was about two leagues from Pécs, and derived its name from its situation; it being surrounded by the waters of the river Almas, which at that spot forms various islets.  The place consisted of three divisions, the castle, and the old and new towns, which were connected by bridges.  In point of strength, it was but ill calculated to resist the powerful army which was led against it, by Sultân Süleymân the Magnificent.  The old and new towns appear to have been scantily fortified, and the castle, or citadel, had only five bastions, formed of earth and fascines, encircled by a triple moat.  A round tower, used as a powder magazine, the steeples, and the guard-houses, were the only brick buildings which it contained.  

But the fortress had a governor whose tried courage made up, in some measure, for its defects.  Count Nicholas Zrinski, who held the command of it, was one of the most intrepid and enterprising of the Hungarian nobles; he had recently defeated one of the Sultân's generals, and it was to wipe out the stain of that defeat that Süleymân now undertook the siege of Sziget, his views having been turned to another quarter at the commencement of the campaign.

When the Ottoman army, of ninety thousand men, with three hundred pieces of cannon, approached the town, Zrinski ordered a cross to be raised on high in the centre of the fortress.  With a less noble feeling, he beheaded a Türkish Ağa, who had fallen into his hands.  Valour, in those days, was too often debased by an admixture of ferocity.  Süleymân having joined his troops, his tent was pitched, with extraordinary magnificence, on the neighbouring hill of Semilikow.  Either in a spirit of chivalry or of mockery, Zrinski hung the ramparts with red drapery, covered the outside of the tower with tin plates, which glittered like silver, and welcomed the Ottoman monarch with a tremendous discharge of his heavy artillery.

The immense number of the Ottomans enabled them to carry on their attacks on three sides at once.  Zrinski soon found that it was impossible to defend the new town, and consequently committed it to the flames.  The besiegers established their batteries on the ruins, kept up a heavy fire, and, by means of bags of earth, contrived to form a solid road through the marshes, which divided the citadel from the old town.  Notwithstanding the heroic efforts of the garrison and its commander, the Türks, in the course of fifteen days, made themselves masters of all the outworks.  The citadel, however, still continued to set them at defiance.  So persuaded was Süleymân that it could not be reduced without an enormous loss of men, that he sought to obtain its surrender by the most tempting propositions.  He offered to the governor the exclusive possession of the whole of Croatia.  This offer was firmly rejected.  The Sultân then tried other means.  The standard-bearer and the trumpeter of Count Zrinski’s eldest son had been taken prisoners by the Türks.  In the hope of alarming the governor, with respect to the safety of his son, Süleymân directed that the two captives should be led under the ramparts, where the one should unfurl his banner, and the other sound the notes of victory.  This stratagem was ineffectual; nor did any better success attend the plan of shooting into the place arrows, to which letters were tied, inciting the garrison to revolt, and offering magnificent rewards.

A first assault on the citadel was repulsed, with great slaughter of the assailants, who left behind them two standards.  Three days afterwards, on the anniversary of the battle of Mohács, and of the surrender of Buda and Belgrade, the Ottomans, animated by the remembrance of their past triumphs, returned to the charge.  Long and bloody was the contest, but they were ultimately beaten back.  They paused four days, and then, for the third time, rushed to the breach.  But, on this occasion, they were easily repulsed.  A mine was at this moment being excavated under the great bastion, and they resolved to wait till it had opened for them a more accessible passage.  

Süleymân was not destined to witness the fall of Sziget; an event for which he so ardently longed, that, only a few hours before he ceased to exist, he impatiently wrote to the Grand Vezir, “This chimney, then, does not yet cease to burn, and the great drum of conquest does not yet make itself heard!”  His ear was deaf to all earthly sounds three days before the.  great drum was heard; he died on the night of the 4th of September.  The secret of his decease was carefully kept by the Grand Vezir, who continued to issue orders in the name of the dead sovereign.  Had he not done so, it is probable that the discouragement of the Ottoman troops would have saved Sziget.

By the 8th of September, the fortress was no become longer tenable.  The mines had opened into it a broad highway; a conflagration was raging in its interior; and of the internal works the tower, containing the powder magazine, was the only one which was not mined.  There was no alternative but to surrender or to die.  Zrinski chose the latter.  In preparing to meet his fate, he displayed as much calmness as though he had been attiring himself for a banquet.  After having taken his silk cloak from his chamberlain, he drew his golden chain round his neck, and put on a black hat, embroidered with gold, and surmounted by a heron's plume, which was fastened by a valuable diamond.

Throwing aside all coins that bore the Türkish impress, he dropped into his pocket a hundred Hungarian ducats; “that,” said he, “whoever finds my body may not complain that he has got nothing by me.” He then called for the keys of the fortress, and, depositing them in the same pocket with the ducats, said to those around him, “As long as this arm can move, no one shall wrest from me these keys or this gold; after my death, whoever likes may have them.  But I have sworn that no human being in the Türkish camp shall ever point at me with his finger.” From four sabres, inlaid with gold, which had been given to him as rewards during his military career, he then selected the oldest.  “It was with this weapon,” said he, “that I won my first honours and my first glory, and it is with this that I will appear before the throne of the Eternal, to hear my doom!”

In the courtyard below there were waiting for him six hundred of his men, soldiers worthy of such a chief, who had declared their fixed resolve to stand by him to the last.  Preceded by his standard-bearer, and followed by a page who carried his shield, Zrinski, without helmet or breastplate, descended to this band of heroes.  He addressed them in a short martial speech, at the close of which he thrice called on the Saviour's name.  All was ready for the sally, and, as the fire was spreading in all directions, there was no time to be lost.  

At the great gate of the fortress, a mortar, heavily charged with grapeshot had been placed.  The besiegers, in multitudes, were now rushing forward over the bridge to commence the assault.  At this instant Zrinski gave the signal, the match was applied to the mortar, and six hundred of the Ottomans fell dead or wounded in the twinkling of an eye.  Dashing through the smoke at the head of his brave soldiers, with his standard-bearer Lovro Juranić by his side, Zrinski penetrated into the throng of Türks, dealing death around him.  But his course was short—wounded by two balls in the chest, and an arrow in the head, he sank to the ground, and three loud shouts of “ Allâh!” testified the joy of the Ottomans on seeing the fall of their valorous foe.  His body was immediately carried away by them, and the head was severed from it on the carriage of a cannon.  The head was eventually restored to his family, who buried it in St. Helen's Convent, near the remains of his wife.

While carnage and conflagration were raging uncontrolled in the citadel, the chamberlain, the treasurer, and the cup-bearer of Zrinski, who had fallen into the hands of the victors, and suffered many indignities, were led into the presence of the Vezir.  “What treasures did Zrinski possess, and where are they?”   demanded the Grand Vezir.  He was answered by the cup-bearer, whose spirit was of kin to that of his master.  

“Zrinski,” replied the courageous Hungarian, “possessed a hundred thousand Hungary ducats, a thousand golden cups of all sizes, a hundred thousand crowns, and a rich service of plate; he destroyed nearly everything; he can scarcely have left fifty thousand ducats’ worth of valuables, which are deposited in a chest.  But his stock of black-powder was all the larger for this.  It is going to explode at the very moment that you are listening to me; and the fire, to which you are indebted for having mastered the fortress, will also bring about the destruction of your army.”

The story of the cup-bearer being confirmed by the other prisoners, the Vezir was struck with consternation.  He immediately dispatched some of his officers to endeavour to avert the danger.  They were too late; they had barely had time to warn some of the Türkish commanders, and to give the signal of retreat, when the magazine blew up with a deafening explosion, the tower was hurled into the air, and more than three thousand of the Ottomans were torn to pieces, or buried beneath the ruins.” [[User:NikolaZrinski|NikolaZrinski]] ([[User talk:NikolaZrinski|talk]]) 17:43, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

== Translation of the story by Ferenc Črnko ==

I find it odd that there are no "old" books referenced for this big story - that is stories that are as close to being primary sources as we have. Two primary sources include the Sultan's campaign diary, which has not been referenced, and there is work by Ottoman historian İbrahim Peçevî, which is based on Ottoman primary sources. There is one major account based on first hand experience by Ferenc Črnko, Nikola Zrinski's chamberlain and a participant in the siege, provides a foundation of facts about the events of the siege.

Again, I will not waste time or effort which can be deleted by the whims of anonymous "editors"

Črnko sources:
Original in Latin "[https://books.google.ca/books?id=DZaftAEACAAJ Historia Sigethi, totius Sclavoniae]...", 1568

[https://books.google.ca/books?id=O1AxAQAAIAAJ Podsjedanje i osvojenje Sigeta] (Translated to modern Croatian)


With an insatiable desire to conquer combined with an inexhaustible unforgiving hatred for the unbelievers the Osmanlı (House of Osman, Ottomans, Türks, Muslims) attacked into Europe.  The Osmanlıs conquered and then dominated over the unfortunate European Christians with a passion for cruelty.  

There is no better example of the destruction the Osmanlıs caused than the events surrounding the conquest of Sziget; a natural and man-made fort in the Slavonia region in the southern borderlands between Hungary and the Osmanlı Empire.  Süleymân, the Osmanlı Sultân, besieged the fort with his powerful army and after much time and great losses eventually overpowered and captured it. 


Fortress of Sziget

Background information

Szigetvár is an “Island Town” found in an artificial lake (marsh) created by the Almas River.  In Hungarian, the name is composed of Sziget for Island and Vár for Town.  In Croatian it is known as Siget.  

The complex was a made of two trading towns (város), an Old Town and a recently built and poorly fortified New Town with a stronger fortress in two parts, the Outer Fortress (larger) and Inner Fortress (smaller).  The Inner Fortress had the main tower and was the last place for retreat.  The whole complex from top to bottom was about 1 km long.

For decades Sziget was an important fortress in the borderland defense system in the lands of Hungary and Croatia protecting the Habsburg monarchy and the Holy Roman Empire from further Osmanlı advances westward.  

Sziget's importance is seen by how much the Osmanlıs wanted it.  They attacked Sziget in 1541, 1555 and 1556 and each time failing.  Numerous times Süleymân demanded that Sziget be handed over to him or destroyed.

Taking Vienna, the Golden Apple, was one of the three great desires that Süleymân had in his life.  To get to Vienna he first had to take Sziget.


The Siege of Sziget

In the year of our Lord 1566, Count Nikola Zrinski (Zrínyi Miklós), a Croatian nobleman with a distinguished ancestry and castellan of the fortress at Sziget, on June 15 received a report from a traveller (spy) indicating that he saw the Osmanlı Sultân’s army near Sarajevo.  He walked alongside the army that was two miles long and heard that their objective was either Eger or Sziget.  A bridge was being built at Petrovaradin across the Danube [indicating that Eger is the target].  

Soon afterwards an informant came from Pécs and brought a letter confirming that the Sultân was indeed on the move with his troops but it is unknown where he is going and what city he plans to attack. A third informant arrived from Osijek (on the Drava 130 km southeast of Sziget) telling Zrinski that a sançakbey came to Osijek sent in advance and crossed the Drava by boat.  With him was a force led by Bosnian and Karaman Paşas and they crossed the Drava and are now on Slav lands downstream from Moslavina but he could not say where they would go next.  

Another informant arrived and stated that while near Osijek, he saw the Türks take many boats up the Drava from Osijek to the port of Utovo (Ottovus, unknown place west of Osijek), towards Siklós.  There, the sançakbey sent with the Sultân's army will cross the Drava River and rest at the Osmanlı fort at Siklós and wait for a larger army to arrive.  The army is large but no one knows where the army will go from there.  

Again, an informant arrived from the Osmanlı camp stating that [ the vanguard of ] the army is boarding boats on the Drava at Utovo and that is how the Türks are crossing the river.  They are heading towards Buda but will rest at Siklós.

On June 17, being aware that the Osmanlıs were, without ceasing, crossing the Drava and encamped and resting in the hills and fields at Siklós, Castellan Zrinski sent 1,000 infantry and 500 cavalry troops, led by his knights Gašpar Alapić, Nikola Kovač, Peter Patačić and Vuk Papratović with the infantry commanders to Siklós on a search and destroy mission.  Their orders were to ‘try their luck’; to attack the Osmanlı army if they found it otherwise attack the Siklós fort, plunder and burn it.

When the Szigetars got close to Siklós, during the night they sent 200 infantry and 100 cavalry on a scouting mission (reconnaissance) through the fields around Siklós to find the Osmanlı army and then report back to the main force.  

When they arrived at Siklós they observed the army camp set up by sançakbey Mehmet Bey Tirali from the sançak of Harija, a favorite of the Sultân and given the sançak of Čori near İstanbul.  The sançakbey’s orders were to be an advance guard for the army, cross the Drava and then encamp near Pécs and wait for the rest of the army that crosses the Drava to arrive.  He was given strict orders to wait and not to move until receiving further orders from the Sultân about where to go next.  

Zrinski’s troops attacked him and scattered his army right at dawn.  The shocked Osmanlıs scattered and stumbled through the mud and bushes in their nightshirts as the Szigetars cut them down with their swords.  Some managed to run and hide in the forest but most were killed on the spot while others tried to hide in the reeds in swamp (moat) around Siklós and they drowned.  The sançakbey was gravely wounded by a sword, he stumbled into the swamp and drowned.  The Szigetars took the sançakbey’s son and three Osmanlı officers as prisoners.

After the Osmanlı soldiers were killed the Szigetars began to pillage the camp.  The treasure was great with much gold and silver.  War supplies included tents and six war chariots as well as weapons such as war axes and various military tools.  Animals included a few beautiful mares, 60 horses, 50 mules and 8 camels.  Also taken were expensive purple robes and fur trimmed uniforms.  Two large Osmanlı red flags, made of silk with a trim, one hand width wide, of silver thread were taken as well as coloured horsetail mounted on a spear with a silver ball that looked like an apple at the top representing the sançak.  

The soldiers returned to Sziget in victory rejoicing with their great prize, spoils of war the likes of which had not been seen in long time.

On July 2, Bosnian Paşa Mustafa Bey Sokolović with the Bosnian army and Karaman Paşa crossed the Drava at Utovo landing at Harkány, 6 km west of Siklós.

On July 7, an informant came from the Osmanlı camp in Beograd stating that the Sultân had arrived in Belgrade and had ordered boats to go up the Drava River towards Siklós where he wanted a temporary floating pontoon bridge built across the Drava.  The bridge that had already been made across the Danube was to be dismantled and the materials used for the new bridge.

A letter arrived from Pécs in which Nasuf Ağa wrote to Castellan Zrinski that a messenger came from the Sultân commanding Hamza Bey to quickly go to the Drava and and start building a bridge and if he does not go that Süleymân will, in front of his house, impale him on a spear (pole).  Hamza Bey is given authority to collect and lead soldiers to do the work.  

Hamza Bey started to build a bridge near Utovo and had a lot of success but then one night when the bridge was almost completed high and powerful turbulent waters destroyed the bridge and carried away the parts.  This was not the right place to build a bridge and so Hamza Bey moved further down the Drava to build a second bridge and after two days of work, again at night, the river carried away everything.  

He went to a third place where he started building bridge, almost at Osijek, but yet again the high and strong current was not good for bridge building.  Hamza Bey sent a messenger by horse to the Sultân telling him that he had spared no effort in trying to build a bridge but due to the power of the river, at this time, he would not be able to build the bridge across the Drava.  The Sultân received the message, thought about it and quickly sent a messenger to Hamza Bey in Pécs, sending him a Türkish style scarf with gold embroidery on the edge “Sultân Süleymân”, and commanded him by the messenger to build a bridge across the Drava by whatever means possible because if, by the time of his arrival, the bridge is not completed, with that scarf by the bridge, he will be hung.

Hamza Bey understood the message and that hour went to the Drava, closer to Osijek, and there he took and organized all the boats and bridge building supplies to start building a bridge.  Everyone was ordered to work on the bridge.  All the locals in the region either volunteered or were forced to help build the bridge.  No one was spared; not the Sipahi, nor the Türkish officials.  They worked quickly with great seriousness and some creativity.  Hamza Bey worked night and day until the Hungarian mile long bridge was built through the swamp, oxbow lake, mud and river.  The bridge was finished in ten days.

The scarf, sent by the Sultân to Hamza Bey in Pécs, was secretly sent by Nasuf Ağa to Castellan Zrinski in Sziget, while Nasuf Ağa was the deputy in Pécs and Hamza Bey was building the bridge.

On July 20, the Bosnian and Karaman Paşas left Harkány and went to Pécs and then to Székesfehérvár where they were to assist the new governor of Buda, Mustafa Sokolović.  The army was accompanied by Hamza Bey with all his Sipahi and there was great sadness and many tears in Pécs when they left because they were well liked.

On that day the first to cross the bridge was the Anatolian Beylerbey, greatest general of the East, following him was the Akinçi Paşa, and after him crossed the Rumelian Beylerbey, chief strategist and ruler of the provinces north of the Aegean Sea and south of Hungary (Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia).  They settled on the Mohács plains where they set up the Sultân's tents.  Following them Sultân Süleymân crossed the Drava River next.  When the Sultân arrived (in Mohács) there was much celebration and happiness.  After inspecting the camp, the Sultân called for a meeting to plan the military action.  There, he spent a few happy days relaxing while the army crossed the Drava River.

On July 31, the Rumelian Beylerbey and the Akinçi Paşa with 90,000 arrived and rested at Szentlőrinc, one Hungarian mile from Sziget.  On that day 10,000 Türks came from their camp and fought with our soldiers in the fields and among the fences (sorompó) in front of the fort from morning to afternoon and then returned to their camp to sleep.

On August 1, the Türkish Sultân moved from the fields of Mohács towards Sziget (about 100 km march) and on the third day arrived near Siklós at Harsány (Nagyharsány) and there he executed Arslan Paşa of Buda.  On the fourth day, the Sultân is in Pécs and on the fifth day at Szentlőrinc near Sziget.  On that day, the first Tatar cavalry units arrived at Sziget.

Also on August 1, when Zrinski saw the troops approaching at Szentlőrinc, he was certain that the Türkish Sultân will attack Sziget.  He knew that he had to create order among his officers, cavalry, infantry and the brave soldiers.

Castellan Zrinski called for a general meeting of all troops, laborers and residents of the town to be held in the main square of the Inner Fortress.  When everyone was in the square the gates were closed and Castellan Zrinski came in front of everyone and spoke the following:

“My brethren and faithful servants of our imperial majesty, brave knights!   All of us can surely see that the Türkish Sultân is upon us.  We must now prepare ourselves and with unwavering courage await our enemy; the enemy of the entire Christian world.  With unlimited arrogance in their power and paganism, the horde takes up arms against us.  We place our hope and our trust in our Lord God who is greater than the Sultân and can surely help us little people in this great struggle.

We must wait for the Sultân’s attack with a calm heart and not be afraid of the strength and the large numbers of our enemy.  We can have no doubt that if we look to God and pray he will give us guidance and protection.  Above all else we must strive to be faithful to one another and united.  There should be no doubt, lies, hostility or hatred against one another.  We must live and act honourably in agreement and with goodwill.  We will stand together for as long as God wills.

Therefore my brethren we must, here and now, bind ourselves together and swear an oath of fidelity, first to our Lord God, then to his majesty the emperor, to our tormented homeland and to one another that we will be faithful and persevering.  I will swear my oath to you first and then you will swear your oath to me.  In this way you will have no doubts in me and I will have none in you.  Hear my oath:

I, Nikolas Zrinski, swear by Almighty God, and then our majesty, our glorious king, these suffering lands and to you brave knights gathered here with me.  May the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, One God, Holy Trinity, help me that I will never abandon you, that I will endure with you all that happens, whether good or bad and that I will here, with you, live or die.

Now it is necessary that you also swear here in front of me, each man with two fingers raised.  Again, each will swear to his voyvoda and commander at the gate.  Each of you must swear your oath with a loud and clear voice with two fingers raised and we will watch to see who is unwilling to swear their oath properly with a clear voice and fingers raised.  He who is not willing to swear the oath is not an honourable man and is not likely to endure with us to the end, and might betray us.  That man is not committed to being with us and must leave now.

Your oath is as follows:

All of us, cavalry, infantry, citizens and all servants of his imperial majesty, swear first by Almighty God, our Homeland and our noble Count Nikola Zrinski that we will be faithful, true and obedient to our commanders.  We vow to be strong and brave.  With his grace we will live and die with you.  So help us God!”

Castellan Zrinski continued.

“Listen further!  

So that you all know: if death takes me from you, in my place will stand my kinsman knight Gašpar Alapić.  I command you to obey him and show him the greatest of respect as you do me.  If he gives you orders, follow them quickly and faithfully.  To my knight Gašpar I order you to never give up the fight.  

Hear now the codes of martial law:

If anyone, nobleman or ordinary man, cavalry or infantry, refuses, for any reason, to fulfill a command from a superior, or without justification draws a weapon on a fellow soldier they will be put to death immediately.

If you find and read a Türkish letter, you will be put to death on the spot.  If you speak a word to a Türk, you will be cut down on the spot.  If you find a letter attached to an arrow I order you to take it to your superior who will bring it to me and I will throw it into the fire.  

After you have been given your position, you must stay in your position and hold it day and night.  If anyone, noble or not, officer or soldier, leaves his position without permission from your captain, voyvoda or sergeant you will be put to death immediately without trial.  

Those who have a wife or mother here, they will bring to you the food, drink and whatever necessities you need.  Be without worry and hold your post.  Those without a wife or mother here, my kitchen will cook for you and ensure that your sergeants will bring a sufficient amount of food to you in due time.  Wine will be given to those who do not have any, one liter per person per day, as well as vinegar, salt, bread and smoked pork.  Those that are married will receive flour so that you can make bread for yourselves.

If two people are found talking in secret, spreading rumours, sowing dissent, conspiring amongst them, both will be taken to their commander and hanged.  If you see or hear people conspiring and do not report them, due to either friendship or bribe, you will be punished the same way without delay.

Finally, if you steal from comrades, even the value of one penny, 
you will be hanged.”

To create a proper sense of fear, Castellan Zrinski set up gallows in the outer fortress near the city gate.  To prove that his orders must be taken seriously, Nikola Zrinski executed a soldier in the main square of the Old Town because the soldier raised his sword against his commander.  Then lord Zrinski cut off the head of Mahmut Ağa Vilić for atrocities he committed while coming to Sziget.  He did this to create fear in the fortress.  

Castellan Zrinski then ordered that every homeowner in the Old Town take the roof off his house and take the thatch outside of Old Town.  The straw roofs of the houses in the New Town are to be taken down and put inside the houses so that they will burn faster if New Town is abandoned and set ablaze.  

After Zrinski and knights swore their oaths there were 2,300 (and something) armed soldiers, not counting the women and children.

On August 1, the Rumelian Beylerbey and the Akinçi Paşa, with their army of 90,000 Türks arrived and camped on Similehov Hill, which is one quarter of a Hungarian mile from Sziget.  They came for a fight from noon to night.  Many Türks died in the fight and every day many Türks were shot by our muskets.  Three times a day they would come to fight until the Sultân arrived.

August 5, the Sultân was in Szentlőrinc.  The beylerbey and the Akinçi Paşa left the high ground and came to surround Sziget.  Similehov Hill was left empty for the Sultân.  On that same day, Monday, the Sultân’s tents were set up on the hill.

On August 7, the Osmanlıs made baskets with branches and plants from the hills and fields and then filled them with soil and took them to near New Town.  They dug trenches and made walls from the baskets of dirt behind which they hid themselves and their cannons.  They camouflaged their cannons and brought them close to the town hiding behind the mounds (fences, rows) of soil.  The Yeniçeris hid behind the mounds and attacked New Town.  Fierce battles were fought but even with the heavy shelling and gunfire little was accomplished.  Yeniçeris came to the wall and fought fiercely with our men.  Only one of ours died while many of theirs were killed.

On that day, in the evening, lord Zrinski ordered that all fences, his gardens and trees be cut down in the New Town and burned.  Both gates are closed and filled with earth to strengthen them.  That night and early into the morning the Osmanlıs continued to build their trenches on three sides of New Town.  Yeniçeris hid in the trenches with their cannons, under ground safe from our guns.

On August 8, early Thursday morning, Yeniçeris began to attack New Town from three sides.  Flaming tarballs were fired into both parts of the town.  New Town shook from the cannon fire.  That night to Friday in the morning Ali Portug, commander of the Sultân’s naval and land forces as well as commander of the engineers, began building a siege tower on a mound across the swamp from the Inner Fortress and work continued during the night.  On top of the siege tower were placed large cannons.  The height of the firing platform let the Osmanlıs shoot into the fortress.  They dug more trenches by the Royal Garden across from the moat and during the night placed more cannons.

On August 9, Friday at dawn, Ali Portug fired five large cannons and several smaller ones at the Inner Fortress causing that day much damage.  With constant fire the tower was greatly damaged.  They even managed to hit the bell in the tower - everything on top of the tower was damaged.  The cannons fired from early in the morning to late at night without rest into New Town.  If there was a brief pause the firing started up again.  Cannons roared overnight without interruption.

On that day, on Friday at night, lord Zrinski saw how many of his men were killed by the cannon fire on New Town he decided to abandon New Town.  The buildings were set ablaze (scorched earth) and when they were completely destroyed, the gates were sealed and survivors retreated to the large Old Town.

On August 10, Saturday, the Osmanlıs began to fire on Old Town with large guns from three sides.  The Yeniçeris dug closer to the Old Town and in New Town, which had been destroyed by fire, they brought their cannons and from there began to fire on Old Town.  Also built in New Town was a raised firing position for the cannons and the Yeniçeris built a barracks.  

Also early that day, from their trenches, Ali Portug's Türks began building an embankment (raised path) across the marsh towards the Inner Fortress.  Across the water and mud of the swamp they threw in front of themselves large amounts of wood, earth, bags of wool; anything and everything.  Each day the Türks advanced closer to the Inner Fortress.  Not one of the Türks was excused from the burdensome work of bringing material to build the embankment.  The camels, horses and mules did not rest.  The fields and forests were abuzz with Türks, camels, horses and other animals working.  

From the town two paths were started towards the fortress and on each path there was piled a large amount of wood.  As the paths got closer to the fortress and within range of the fortress guns on each embankment they built a defensive wall made from bags full of wool.  Behind the walls stood Yeniçeris who fired on the fortress walls with such constant gunfire not allowing our soldiers to move on the walls; that is how much they fired with their muskets.

On August 19, the Monday before St. Bartholomew’s, the Osmanlıs captured and occupied Old Town.  Many of our men, valiant soldiers, were left in Old Town because they could not retreat into the fortress because the Türks blocked their way to the bridge to the fortress.  The Osmanlıs slaughtered those who were not able to retreat to the fortress there.  Among the dead were Martin Bošnjak and Petar Botoš an infantry commander and great hero.  Also lost at the bridge were voyvoda Old Lovrenac, voyvoda Petar Bata, voyvoda Juri Matijaša and Máté Szecsődi who was shot and needed help.

Also, defending the Old Town died voyvoda Jakab Radován and voyvoda Ferenc Dandó along with many other important heroes, whose names I can’t all record in this book.  We lost many experienced and brave leaders.  We left Old Town with many losses and great sacrifices because many veteran voyvodas and great heroes were lost in Old Town.  We were all overcome with great sadness when we shut the gates and locked ourselves into the fortress while the Osmanlıs occupied and took control of New Town.

On August 20, the Osmanlıs started to shoot and attack the fortress from four sides with their cannons from New Town and the two embankments were getting closer to the fortress.  After the dam (dike, levee) holding the water and creating the lake had been cut the water drained out and all that was left behind was mud.  

On August 26, Monday after St Bartholomew’s, the Osmanlıs began their first attack on the Inner Fortress across the raised embankments from Ali Portug's trenches.  The attack failed and many Osmanlıs were killed.  The Szigetars captured two large Osmanlı flags and took them into the fortress.  Then our soldiers shot with muskets and killed the ‘Misirski Paşa’ and then the Osmanlıs slowly left, leaving many dead by our palisades (walls) as well as many shovels and digging equipment with which they came to attack the walls.  

That is how they assaulted the Inner Fortress every day from three sides; attacking and weakening one bastion that was by the gate and the other that was by the hill.

On September 2, the Yeniçeris attacked and then stopped their direct attacks and changed their strategy.  That night they started digging a mine under the large bastion on the hill of the outer fortress.  By the third day they excavated so much earth from under the bastion that a Yeniçeri (Janissary) could go inside to the inner area and shoot one of our heroes on the bastion.  They then filled the area under the bastion with anything that could burn; a lot of lumber, wood chips, straw and black-powder.  

On September 4, after lunch at about 1:00 pm, on Similehov Hill, in the Sziget vineyards, a quarter mile from Sziget with the sounds and the smells of battle in the air, Sultân Süleymân died.  The Sultân's Grand Vezir Mehmet Paşa, along with several Vezirs, with cunning, kept the Sultân’s death a secret from the lower Paşas, beys, Yeniçeris and other soldiers.  To ensure that the news of the death did not become public, Mehmet Paşa secretly killed the Sultân’s doctor so that he would not speak about the Sultân’s death.

To minimize suspicion the daily routine was maintained.  The band played, trumpets and drums, like normal.  Food was prepared and brought to the tent, like normal.  Right after Süleymân’s death some great troubles arose; a fierce storm with powerful winds caused great damage, overturning the Sultân’s tents and scattering them all over.  The winds blew to the Grand Vezir Mehmet Paşa Sokolović’s tent blowing it away.  All the straw, hay and trash the wind found were blown all over the camp.  At the same time something strange happened on the lower Danube, near Tolna.  The river became so turbulent that it mixed up with mud and sand becoming dirty and for three days it did not clear.  Neither the Osmanlıs nor locals from Tolna were able to use the water for washing or drinking.

On the September 5, on the Thursday before the ‘Mala Maša’ (Little Mass), early in the morning, the Osmanlıs set fire to the large bastion in the outer Fortress so the bastion burned furiously and then a strong wind from the south began to blow the from the bastion into the fortress and set ablaze the wood that was brought into the fortress for repairs and to make palisades.  

From there, the castellan’s barns began to burn as did the other houses in the Outer Fortress and then the whole Fortress was on fire.  On the bastion, in the fire, were lost the emperor’s cannons.  The Osmanlıs assaulted the bastion from four sides without any stopping.  Again the Yeniçeris fired their muskets into the Fortress, with so many bullets hitting the fortress that it sounded like rain hitting the walls.  

Then onto the bastion by the gate, named the Nádasdy bastion, the Osmanlıs assaulted strongly; madly scrambling to get into the fortress but Lord Zrinski was there and a great battle was fought and he forced  two units of Osmanlıs out of the fortress.  Ivan Novaković was lost during the fight.  When Castellan Zrinski saw the fire getting stronger and closer to the black-powder magazine in the Outer Fortress by the gate to the Inner Fortress, by which there was a large forest, he realized that he could not stay in front of the assaulting fire and more Türks were storming into the Outer Fortress from all sides and through the bastion where he and his knights fought before.  He knew he could no longer hold out in the Outer Fortress and ordered that all those that could to retreat into the Inner Fortress.  Outside were left many valiant knights and many women and children against whom the Türks committed atrocities.  The heroic soldiers left outside were slaughtered while the women and children were taken captive to the Türkish camp with many Türks fighting amongst themselves (with some Türks being killed) over the women and children. 

Once inside the Inner Fortress (Citadel), Zrinski closed the gate with the knights who were still left alive and said goodbye to his beloved fortress, which had come to such a horrible end.  Inside the Inner Fortress, Castellan Zrinski ordered the officers to give each remaining soldier a post (position to guard) and what they should look out for.  The walls of the Inner and Outer Fortresses were close to one another so that it was easy to enter the Inner Fortress over an embankment (bridge) across the moat.  The Inner Fortress was in a corner of the Outer Fortress and walls of the Outer Fortress surrounded the Inner Fortress on two sides and there were no strong walls between the two.  On the two sides facing the Outer Fortress the walls were not fortified with only the stone walls of houses creating the barrier.  One of the houses was Zrinski’s quarters while others stored muskets, black-powder, bullets and cannon supplies were stored and guarded.  The Inner and Outer Fortress were separated by a moat and connected by a bridge.

The buildings that were supposed to be full of food were empty as all the food was left in the Outer Fortress.  An unspeakable amount of food, flour, oats, barley, smoked fish and smoked pork as well as 50 barrels of wine, 300 containers of vinegar, and 50 barrels of all varieties of legumes were all abandoned.  There was so much food we did not know how much.  All the food was burned and lost in the fire so that neither we nor the enemy could benefit from it.  Also lost in the Outer Fortress were our large cannons, now being used by the Osmanlıs against us.  With our cannons they started to shoot at us in the Inner Fortress until they took the Inner Fortress, which will be explained later.  

In the Inner Fortress there were no large guns except for two cannons, three mortars called “lightning makers” and four smaller cannons with the rest lost in the Outer Fortress.  All the warfare equipment, together with other things, were now in the hands of the Osmanlıs in the Outer Fortress.  

There was no food in the Inner Fortress except for 1,000 kabal of wheat flour that Castellan Zrinski brought from his estate in Csurgó.  Bread and water were much needed in the Inner Fortress and the women and children were suffering from thirst and hunger while the each infantry and cavalry soldier had enough to eat.  While in the Outer Fortress every soldier, infantry and cavalry, had enough food but no one brought any with them into the Inner Fortress.  In the retreat, for those that could make it to the Inner Fortress, not even gold and silver were worth saving; that’s how quickly we retreated from the Outer Fortress as the Osmanlıs advanced.

When the Osmanlıs took the Outer Fortress they planted many flags on the walls, embankments and the hill called the “heights”.  On Thursday and Friday the Osmanlıs in the Outer Fortress rested while we in the Inner Fortress were enclosed and besieged on all sides so that no one could come to us but we also could not leave.

On September 7, the day before the Nativity of the Virgin Mary (Little Mass), early in the morning at about 6:00 am, the Osmanlıs set fire to the lord's house.  While Count Zrinski’s house was burning, the Osmanlı Sultân’s infantry began to fill the Outer Fortress preparing for a full assault.  They began to drum their drums and blow their horns.  They had so many flags in the Outer Fortress that only God could count them.  The fields, waters and woods could not be seen through the Osmanlıs; the walls were full of Osmanlı soldiers.

When Castellan Zrinski saw the fierce fire in the Inner Fortress he knew that the garisson can’t hold out much longer and he called to Ferenc Črnko, his chamberlain, to help him dress in clean clothes.  Zrinski asked for his silk suit and silk socks.  To the knights that were with him he said;

“I do not need heavy clothes (armour) but light clothes that will 
not slow me down, in which I have more dexterity to fight better.”

He then asked his chamberlain to bring him his kalpag, a black fur cap embroidered with gold, with a diamond embedded in a gold coin on the front topped by a beautiful black heron feather.  He said:

“I wore this at my wedding.”

He then asked for 100 gold ducats be brought to him, only Hungarian ducats with no Türkish ducats included.  When the chamberlain brought him the 100 ducats he cut the lining of his tunic and put the coins inside and then sealed it and said to his men,

“Let it be known that I place these gold ducats so that the pagan that (kills me and) takes this jacket will not be able to say he found nothing (of value) on me.”

He asked his chamberlain for the keys to the fortress, all the keys he still had after Sziget was besieged, and put them into his tunic with the gold ducats and said:

“My knights, believe me, as long as I can move this arm and with this sword in my hand protect my life no one shall take these keys from me.  After my death, whoever likes may have them.  I have sworn to God that no Türk will take me alive, as a captive through the Türkish camp from tent to tent and no one will point their fingers at my children in scorn.”

Next he asked his chamberlain for the swords he had with him.  Four swords were brought to him.  Some were decorated with silver while others with gold.  He looked at, tested and appreciated each one.  He selected the sword that once belonged to his father and said:

“This is my oldest sabre, passed down from my father.  With this sword I won my first honours and with this sword I earned everything that I have.  With this sword in my hand I will now endure God’s judgment.”

He left his quarters with the sword in his right hand and ordered that his small round steel shield be brought out, with no need for any other weapons, armour or a helmet.  He said,

“God will give me the assistance and protection that I need.  I don’t seek to run and escape Szigetvár but to endure, with an unwavering spirit, all that God wants of me.”

When Castellan Zrinski stepped out of his quarters and into the square of the Inner Fortress, all the intrepid heroes, infantry and cavalry, were waiting, each with his sword drawn, in armour with shields.  The residents, wives and children were with them also.  Even as they could see the fortress burning with no chance of putting out the fire they stood with an unwavering spirit.  In the square he began to speak so that everyone could hear and understand him.  The noble Zrinski spoke:

“My brethren and heroes.  We can see how our Lord God is punishing us with these flames.  But, for everything we must be thankful to God!  We must bear this punishment for it fits our sins and we seek God’s forgiveness, for we suffer not only for our sins but for the sins of our nation, with grateful spirit.

Our enemy cannot defeat us with their strength or mighty numbers and so they try to destroy us with this cruel fire.  We can see that we can’t stay here any longer even if we want to.  No matter how heroic we want to be there are three reasons we can’t stay here.  The first is that the fire is strong and we will burn.  The second is that we are few in numbers.  The third is that we have no food or water and our wives and children suffer from thirst and hunger.  Do we want to stay and perish in this fire?

You must remember well now the oath I swore to you, with God as my witness, at the start of this siege and you swore to me faithfully, that here we will live and die together.  Thanks be to God that so far among us there has been no betrayal and there will not be any now.  By rejecting ignominious surrender, at the end of our steadfast lives, we shall continue our long standing military honour and glory.

Soldiers (heroes, knights), let’s go out from here into the Outer Fortress and there fight our enemy face to face and then die in a way so that good and honourable words are spoken of our death.  Those who fall will be with God forever and those who survive will have a good name.

Therefore, I will to be first and go in front of you.  What I do, you do the same.  Believe me my beloved brethren and heroes, even onto death I will not abandon you."

They yelled, “Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!”.  The emperor’s standard was given to Lovro Juranić to carry it in front.  The gate to the Outer Fortress was opened.  At the gate there was a big iron mortar filled with all sorts of metal pieces.  The mortar was fired at the advancing Osmanlıs.  Through the cloud of smoke, with saber in one hand and shield in the other, Zrinski charged.  Lovro Juranić with the standard in front of him and all his knights, cavalry and infantry that were left followed him out.

There they clashed and fought with the Türks, face to face, on the bridge towards the Outer Fortress.  While on the bridge the Yeniçeris hit Zrinski three times with musket fire with the last hitting our glorious lord Zrinski in the head causing him to fall to the ground and the Osmanlıs screamed loudly, “Allâh! Allâh! Allâh!” 

After Castellan Zrinski fell the defenders retreated further into the Inner Fortress and the Yeniçeris maintained their fierce attack into the fortress.  The  walls and roofs of the Inner Fortress were full of Türks.  From the tops of the walls the Türks threw stones and wood at our soldiers and attacked them with axes.  In that way the enemy attacked our heroic soldiers, killing all except those that were secretly rescued, taken out in disguise or given a Yeniçeri börk (hat) to put on their head.  This was done by the Yeniçeris and not others.  

The remaining women and children were taken out alive as captives, and the Türks fought over the prisoners.  The Yeniçeris fought with the other Türks over the captives and Yeniçeris that could not take captives from their hands killed other Türks and took their captives.

There were so many dead bodies on the ground, of ours and of the Türks, that the living walked on the dead.  Inside the walls of the fortress and outside by the walls of the Inner Fortress everywhere was full of dead slashed up bodies and in the fortress you could scoop up the blood.  

After all the living Christians were taken out of the Inner Fortress, both the Inner and Outer Fortresses were full of Türks searching for Zrinski’s treasure.  At that time a fire reached the black-powder magazine, in a room on the ground floor of the tower.  The black-powder exploded destroying, from their foundations, all the buildings in the Inner Fortress.  The explosion was terrific.  Many Türks were killed by flying stones and falling buildings.  The Osmanlıs themselves estimate that no less than 3,000 of their soldiers died in the explosion.  The entire Türkish army broke out into great grief and unceasing weeping.  Some mourned the death of a father, some grieved for a lot son, other cried for a dead brother.

That day the Yeniçeri Ağa commanded that the head of the already dead prince Zrinski be cut off and taken from the battlefield to the Sultân.  The great Vezir Mehmet Paşa, with a few other Vezirs, was so successful in his deception that none of the lower ranked Paşas or beys, nor the Yeniçeris nor army, knew of the death of the Sultân Süleymân.

On September 8, Saturday, on the day of the celebration of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the head of Prince Zrinski, along with heads of other Sziget soldiers, was placed on a spear and placed not high from the ground and just a stone's throw from the Sultân’s tent.  All over the ground were thrown flags that were captured in the Sziget fortress.

All day, without pause, the Türks came to look at the head of Prince Nikola Zrinski, of whom so much was spoken, now stuck on a spear along with the heads of other Sziget soldiers that were brought and thrown on the ground on a pile.  Every Türkish soldier that brought a head to the Sultân's tent or the tent of the Grand Vezir Mehmet Paşa, the Sultân's deputy, received 10 ducats for pay (reward).

On September 9, early in the morning, Mehmet Paşa Sokolović, son-in-law of the Sultân and Grand Vezir, took Castellan Zrinski’s head down from public display and then sent the head of the hero to his brother Mustafa Sokolović the newly appointed governor of the city of Buda.  When Mustafa received the head he wrapped it in red silk and covered it with fine linens and then sent it, via two local peasants, to the Emperor’s camp in Győr for the Emperor's eyes.

In Győr there was much mourning and many tears.  From there, Baltazar Baćan, brought the head to Čakovac to the Monastary of St. Jelena, where it was placed into the family crypt where his first wife Katarina Frankopan, his daughter and two sons are buried.  May the good Almighty God graciously give his soul eternal rest in the Kingdom of Heaven!

This concludes the story, as told by Ferenc Črnko, of the 
Siege of Sziget by Sultân Süleymân the Scourge of Europe in 1566. [[User:NikolaZrinski|NikolaZrinski]] ([[User talk:NikolaZrinski|talk]]) 17:59, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

== Pjesma o Sigetu (Song of Sziget) ==

One more primary source. Written by an anonymous soldier, most likely an officer, that was in Sziget.   The original story was written in Croatian some time after the siege. Due to the regional dialect of this 450 year old "song" (poem), the translation was very difficult to do.  While this English translation provides the general ideas of the song please do not use it for academic purposes. Maybe someone can produce a better translation.

Source: [https://www.hrlektire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/starije_kajkavsko_pjesnistvo.pdf Starije kajkavsko pjesništvo], page 8. By Wiki-editor standards, this source, though created for the Croatian school system, may look like it is not a credible source. I will let the editors do with it what they want. Also, since I am not a professional translator, my translation is not "wiki-credible" and therefore any work that I add to the story will be deleted by bureaucratic editors. I will provide a starting point and I will let the "editors" do what they want.


'''Pjesma o Sigetu (Song of Sziget)'''


'''First Part'''

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At Čakovec castle

''Dobro i ti sam znaš naše neprijatele, oni bi radi mene pogubili;''

''lahko me zgubijo po hudih tolnačih, da naj verujo, ar me požalujo.''


You also know well our enemies, they would gladly kill me; 
easily kill me through evil advice, believe me, don't mourn me.

Juraj, my dear son, go for me to the emperor, to his camp by the turbulent Danube, I will write a letter about what my knights at Sziget need.

You must know this, my dear son, if Süleymân himself besieges Sziget,
that Sziget will be cut with steel, he will not leave, because he wants it.

Nikola Zrinski, immediately goes to the strong town of Sziget with Croatian nobles and with a good unit of nobles; he is followed by Croatian, Hungarian and Slovenian nobles.

Nikola Zrinski, happily resides with the Sziget heroes, with good Hajduks, and happily awaits Sultân Süleymân.  And then comes to me a “Half-Türk”.

He begins to speak to Zrinski: “Know this, the mighty Türkish Sultân comes, Sziget he wants to neutralize as he tried at the town of Pozsony (Bratislava).

Across the mighty Drava, by a dry bridge, crossed the Sultân’s powerful cousin, who goes before him, two miles ahead; you must destroy him with your Hajduks.”

Nikola Zrinski, jumps up with his knights, with strong Hajduks, and with them rides across the wide plains, towards the Türks that cross the Drava and quickly come to us.

One early morning, hunting before the dawn, he finds the cursed Türks, there he destroys them and takes much, the Sultân’s cousin’s head he cuts off.

With great happiness they return to Sziget.  News reaches Sultân Süleymân also, he mourns for his cousin, and with sadness tells his trusty Paşa:

“I wanted to go to the mighty Danube, to the beautiful city of Vienna, but that will not happen now, now I will go to the strong town of Sziget, that is where my soul wants to land.”

All of the Sultân's might marches to Sziget, one early morning he sees Sziget, on the wide plains are large armies and white tents on all four sides.

From the Sziget fort the heroes emerged, from morning all to evening, strongly they fought with the cursed Türks and many Türkish heads there fell down.

Hajduks with muskets set up an ambush, near a stream (moat?), in a hidden place.  When the Türks arrived, they shot them all, and with their bodies the pass was filled.

Only a few of the Sziget heroes were lost, on that first battle they fought very courageously, and Sultân Süleymân was very unhappy that in that battle he did not gain anything.

Amen


'''Second Part'''

My good gentlemen, quickly I tell you of Sziget town, how we lost it, 
but also by God how great a price those cursed Türks paid with their heads.

The damned Türks quickly made large attacks with their cannons, 
they started attacking Sziget town from all four sides very strongly.

Cannons fired from Sziget’s bastions, at the enemy wherever they attacked Sziget.  From Sziget we sallied out, taking a chance and attacked, but we could not destroy them.

Quickly the Türks moved a sea (thousands) of wagons of earth from 
the beautiful fields and with it they began making paths across the marsh.

A great wonder (miracle) toward the fortress they accomplished, to them nothing is impossible, large hills they made with bags of earth — those damned Türks.  

The impatient Sultân wrote a letter to Zrinski and with nice words asked for Sziget: “If you do not give it, I will take it, better that you give it to me peacefully.”

Nikola Zrinski did not think much of the Türkish Sultân's big request, but in Sziget he was cheerful and with fine wisdom and courage he acted.

What the Türks damaged in the town during the day, the Szigetars repaired at night.  Greatly amazed were the damned Türks, because they could not do anything to the fortress.

The damned Türks changed strategy and decided to cut through the Sziget dike.  Nikola Zrinski hears of this and quickly sends men out of Sziget.

From Sziget the Hajduks bravely charged, shooting many of the damned Türks, of those that dug the dam few remained, they were all shot.

The mighty Sultân Süleymân heard about this, how his soldiers were lost on all sides and ordered two of his soldiers to carry an offer to Sziget

The damned Türkish Sultân said: “Paşa, if your head is dear to you, 
take for me Sziget town because, I want to take it with my Janissaries.”

The offer he brought to us, that damned Paşa, after they cut the dike and 
there was little water left in the moats and in Sziget.  The Türks are now happy.

They then began to fill Sziget's moats, on all four sides, with cotton and earth.  Into battle went the Sziget heroes and with muskets they shot many.

The good men of Sziget stood strong and there many Türkish heads fell.  Even by attacks and rich offers to surrender, the Mighty Sultân can’t take Sziget.

A great misfortune happened in Sziget, we could not put an end to the damned enemy, not with powder or fire could we stop them, nor with cannons destroy them.

Nikola Zrinski then wrote a letter to king Ferdinand on the mighty Danube:

“I am letting you know clearly, that I will leave the fort (New Town) to the Türks.  I beg you, king Maximilian, if you want to save the Sziget fortress march immediately to Sziget to help, if you do not, king, harm will happen.  They have filled in the moats and in the moats there is no water left.  Around the town the moats are filled with earth and cotton by those damned Türks.”

King Ferdinand himself received he letter and started to say to the nobles (gentlemen): “Let us go right away to help Sziget, if we want to him to survive.”

The nobles debate on the advice to give, and they say to the king:

“And what is Nikola Zrinski missing, we gave him everything, all that he asked for.  We know well that Sziget is difficult to take, he quickly got scared in Sziget.We must wait for the Sultân at the Danube, so that we do not lose our heads at Sziget.”

To Zrinski Ferdinand replied, “I wrote to the Emperor, my brother, 
that he march to you from German Graz to Bogovišče.”

To Nikola Zrinski the letter was brought, and he said: 
“Be brave, Sziget heroes, our Lord God will help us.”

Every day Zrinski watched for help to arrive but nowhere did he see any, 
except for only Türks, every day attacking, every day strongly attacking.

One Paşa went to Sultân Süleymân and began to say to him:

“Do you want to kill us all here, already 5,000 of us have died.  We have assaulted but have not taken the town, with muskets we have shot and done much damage, but few of us remain, to take it, the Sziget town and fortress, will be costly.”

Suddenly (on the spot), the Sultân tried to take the Paşa's head but then said to the two Paşas:

“You two, for quite some time complain to me about Sziget town, and its Hajduks.  Believe me, you two Paşas of mine, as long as one of you is alive, I will not leave Sziget town - even if all my soldiers die.”

One Paşa, to who he (Sultân) gave the order, brought an attack on Sziget town.  He began to attack the place and to the third day he continued to attack.

Never was there known a greater battle, they did not stop in the morning or the night, and the king saw that the heroes in Sziget could not defend themselves.

The town fell, to the Türks they left it, but by God they paid dearly for it: a few thousand of Türks they killed, one Paşa they shot with a musket.


'''Third Part'''

My good gentlemen, to the end listen of the great sadness, the too great harm, how the Sziget heroes died, and with them died good Nikola Zrinski.

Nikola Zrinski wrote a letter to king Ferdinand at the mighty Danube:

“That you do not leave us in Sziget Citadel, even if you are a distant king of Hungary.  Remember what you, Ferdinand, to me promised, with your your land's great nobles, but you will see, that if we die (you sacrifice us), soon you will mourn us (me).  You did not want to come to the fortress to help, I abandoned it: if you want to help the city (Citadel) then march and help me in Sziget city.”

Soon after, the Sultân sent a letter to Zrinski and with nice words asked:
“If you do not give Sziget to me I will take it, better that you give it to me peacefully.”

Nikola Zrinski had two enemies; one is in the king's camp 
while the other was near Herceg in Međimurje, but I will not name him.

You must know this well yourself, that which even little children know, by evil (bad) advice (promises) Nikola Zrinski in Sziget citadel was easily killed.

Two large hills (towers) they began to build, but from Sziget we could not go, and the damned hills we could not destroy, not in one place could we go out.

About Sziget fortress they strongly thought about how to destroy the bastions.  One dark night they poured a few tons of black-powder.

Early one morning  they came on an attack, on the bastion many Türks came and the black-powder in the bastion they lit on fire and strongly attacked Sziget fortress.

The great bastions they destroyed but many Yeniçeris there were killed.  
Immediately the Türks began to scream but the powder sent flames far.

During this misfortune one German deserted (escaped) from Sziget fortress and went to Sultân Süleymân and told him about Sziget's strengths and where the powder was stored in Sziget.

The bastions he says, about the large bastion: “If you dig under it you will take Sziget fortress, Sultân.”  What does the Sultân do? He takes his advice.

Immediately the Sultân thought about it and began to build a bridge and across it in the night walked and then went on an attack.

Then a number of Yeniçeris had worked to immediately undermine the bastion.  Much black-powder they put there to destroy the bastion.

The Sziget heroes did not know that the Yeniçeris were undermining the bastion.  The Yeniçeris lit the black-powder and the bastion was destroyed.

In the bastion was stored Sziget's black-powder, a great loss to the living people.  The black-powder burned and destroyed everything and Sziget heroes flew into the sky.

Few Sziget heroes remained there who were healthy, maybe 500.  They locked themselves into the inner fortress and made great prayers to God.


'''Fourth Part'''

When the Türks saw the suffering in Sziget, and great destruction of Sziget citadel, they immediately shouted loudly: “Allâh, Allâh, Allâh!” with great joy.

Again the damned Türks attacked, bravely into Sziget fortress, the Sultân's Yeniçeri (Janissaries) themselves attack.  Inside we ran and inside we closed ourselves.

On Thursday Zrinski and his men retreated into the inner citadel 
and the good knights happily awaited their death, as they must suffer.

On Friday night, Zrinski held a dinner, all his good knights he invited and he began to bravely speak to them:

“Feast, my good gentlemen.  Tomorrow at this time we will be feasting with our Lord God, in all his great might.  Gladly we await our death, and we suffer for our Christian faith.  We do not have faith in our kings, but in Christ, who is King of all kings, he will protect us from this evil oppression.  Let us not be sad, but be happy.”

Zrinski, on Saturday morning got dressed, put on a nice silk tunic and armed himself with two swords and a shield.

That is how he went to the good knights, who in their hands held drawn swords.  Then he spoke to the Sziget heroes:

“Around us the fort burns, my Sziget heroes, but let us not be captured as they catch little chicks because of that.  Let us go happily, to the fight we go, bravely die not forgetting God.”

“Jesus!” the Sziget heroes shouted together and then open the gate; Zrinski went first.  Wherever he went, there many fell, many Türkish heads fell there.

As they fought, with muskets they hit many Sziget heroes but the Sziget heroes continued to attack and there killed many Yeniçeris.

Again brave Nikola Zrinski shouted:  “Let's go, knights, happily we go, 
let us return, happily we go, for our faith, happily we go.”

Nikola Zrinski, a third time went forward, with his good knights, holding his sword, where he went everyone (the enemy) fell.  He went far from Sziget Citadel.

Oh, what misfortune, a Yeniçeri shot him in his knightly thigh, Nikola Zrinski, sitting on his horse, with sword in hand slashing and then a second shot hit him in the chest.

A terrible sadness, when a third shoots him in the forehead, above his face.  He falls to the dark ground and there the damned Türks take him

There on the spot they cut off his head and take it to Sultân Süleymân.  Zrinski's knights still fight but the damned Yeniçeris shoot them all.

Zrinski's head is brought to the Sultân, and it is placed on the ground before him, when the Sultân sees it, he begins to cry, and then starts to say:

“Nikola Zrinski, I knew well what you would do in Sziget, I asked you nicely many times for Sziget, that you give it to me, so that this would not happen to you.  I promised you a Hungarian kingship, so that you would rule in it for ages.  You did not believe my Sultân's words, but you fought me Zrinski.”

Oh, you evil damned Yeniçeris, if only you had brought him to me alive I would have forgiven him everything that he did, I would have made him the Hungarian king.

He could have been a better king than the German king Ferdinand, but he faithfully lost his head for his Christian faith and his Hungarian nation.

Take him, my Yeniçeris, carry him to king Ferdinand

[.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .]

[.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . pages missing  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . ]

[.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .]

from Sultân Süleymân, and of his death.

On Saturday, he takes Sziget citadel 
and there to night the Sultân becomes gravely ill.

On Sunday, at mid-day, the Sultân releases his soul.  Oh, One God, great winds began to blow, the large camp was greatly scattered, white tents on all four sides.

At Sziget was lost the first cousin of the Sultân, after that the Sultân cuts off a Paşa's head, another at Sziget was shot with by a musket.  The Türkish Sultân, lost his soul there as well.

A number of thousands of Türks were killed there, the number can't be known.  Never had so many fallen in front of a fortress as had died at Sziget.

Many of our nobles died there, Croatian, Slovenian, Hungarian, German, Lengyel and Czech nobles and many good war-leaders and good heroes.

My good gentlemen, briefly I told you of Sziget town, of Sultân Süleymân,  of good heroes and of Nikola Zrinski, of who we now already mourn

Nikola Zrinski has passed from this world, leaving behind him a good and honourable name, about which can be written about for a thousand five hundred years, about that unfortunate year.

This was a sad song (poem), but happily sung.  
We all ask, our lord God, that he protect us from the evil barbarians (pagans).

Amen [[User:NikolaZrinski|NikolaZrinski]] ([[User talk:NikolaZrinski|talk]]) 18:25, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

== Tarih-i Peçevi (Peçevi’s History ) ==

An informal translation of the account by by Ibrahim Peçevi, written in 1864, and translated to Croatian/Bosnian by Fehim Nametak, , “Historija 1520-1576 (Tarih-i Peçevi)”, Sarajevo, 2000. Due to the nature of the publisher, and the fact that I am not a professional translator, wiki-editors will most likely deem this work "not credible" and therefore I will not make any effort to contribute to the wiki-article. I will let the editors do what they want.


Summary of Campaign on Sigetvar

The reasons why the Sultan went on the final campaign in the last days of his life – to a great war to say good by to his life are as follows:

Buda beylerbey Jahjali Arslan-pasha repeatedly wrote to the Sultan’s divan about increased Hungarian attacks in the borderlands and the Ottoman provinces in Hungary. After the siege of Eger ended, day-by-day the enemy began to act more aggressively increasing banditry and confusion/chaos. Simon Janos, son of the Transylvanian governor, complained of attacks by the Viennese King Ferdinand and by taking the Transylvanian fortresses of Sakmar and Tokaj created a basis for troubles and intrigue and several times he asked for help.

These appeals affected the Padishah’s feelings, although weak due to age and various illnesses. In accordance with a sense of royal honor and pride on the 27 of April, 1566, he appointed second vizier Pertev-pasha as “serdar” (general) and personally gave him orders. The sultan left Istanbul two days later, in accordance with established customs and laws. As always, in accordance with Ottoman traditions, with the sultan travelled the minsters (viziers): Grand Vizier Mehmed-pasha (The Tall), second vizier Pertev-pasha, the third vizier Ferhad-pasha, the fourth Vizier Ahmed-pasha, the fifth vizier Kizil Ahmed Hamid Effendi, Rumelia beylerbey Shems Ahmed-pasha, Kazasker Hamid Effendi, “nišandžija” (holder of imperial standard) Egri Abdi- sets Mehmed Celebi, defterdars Murad Çelebi Mehmed Celebi and Hasan Celebi, the janissary-aga Ali-aga and other dignitaries and leaders. That is how they were organized, unit-by-unit. The sultan was not feeling well due to his age of his body, weakness and drowsiness, and migraines (or stroke?). For most of the way he travelled in a carriage or in the litter and only when going through towns and outposts did he ride a horse.

On the day they encamped at the fields of Zemun Šem-pasha with the Rumelian “alaji” organized a wonderful parade that even heaven had not seen something like that to that day. Next the Karaman beylerbey made a wonderful parade of his troops and he received the sultan’s praise and favor. After them the son of the Duke of Transylvania, who came to represent the Transylvanian Duke at the time of the conquest of Buda in the same way greeted/welcomed the sultan by parading the Transylvanian army and the felt the happiness of the sultan and receiving praise. Once this was completed, the victorious army was ordered, on the proposal of the son of Transylvanian count, to go to Eger, and an order was given to build a bridge at Varadin (Petrovaradin across Danube).

The son of the Transylvania count, on his request, was given the task to work with the Tartar army, in the lead with “mirzama”, to go to Sakmar and Tokay. A year ago these two fortresses were taken by Ferdinand and annexed to his country. The son of thr Transylvanian count asked that he once again rule over them. In that way a war plan was created.

The cavalry was given permission to go ahead, cross the bridge and go to the Backa, where there are many pastures and water. But these plans were not in compliance with destiny, events unfolded differently than planned. When the sanjakbey, protector of Pecs, camped with his army near the fort of Siklos, to him came Iskender-bey, the alaj-bey of Pecs, who was stationed at Siklos, and told him to come into the fort because it is dangerous to camp there. The sanjakbey did not respect his opinion because, as he said, “It is not dangerous to camp one night in the field” and he posted many guards to protect the army.

This act looked like a campaign ordered by God to take Sigetvar. In those days the commander of Szigetvár, Nikola Zrinski, sent 1,000 hajduks (cavalry, outlaws) and 400 soldiers to burn and loot the town of Pecs and to attack the fort. Prisoners were to be taken from whom they would find out in which direction the sultan was heading. When these bastards arrived between Szigetvár and Siklos in Pecs they received news from locals (not Muslim) about how large an army camped by the Siklos fortress. On learning this they immediately went to Siklós with the thought that they will learn the goal of the Islamic sultan, that this army has the best information, and they will be sure to get a lot of plunder.

That night, by God's order/will, it started to rain heavily and the Pecs-bey guards left their positions to find shelter from the rain, thinking that there is no danger from the enemy. The sanjakbey himself believed that the rain and mud are a shield (protection) for his safety. The bastards attacked before dawn surrounded the sanjakbey and made martyrs of him and his son. Also lost were the soldiers while the goods and possessions were either taken or destroyed.

When news of this painful event came to the sultan’s ear, he stopped moving towards Eger and ordered the army to go towards Srijem (region). The sanjakbey of the sanjak of Karli, also the greatest naval hero, most capable in artillery and expert in besieging fortresses, a commander by the name Ali Portuk, earlier received the responsibility to transport by two boats all that is required by the army for food and was designated as commander of the Danube fleet and in charge of building a bridge. Now orders were sent to commander Ali Portuk to dismantle the bridge (across Danube) and build a bridge across the Drava River. The janissary aga Ali-aga received the task of helping build the bridge then go to the Mohacs fields. The work on the bridge was built in ten days and the happy sultan crossed the Osijek fields and cross the bridge. Arsan camped in fields by a large hill and waited for two days.

Buda beylerbey Arslan-pasha, son of Mehmed-pasha, was executed in front of the sultan’s tent. May Allah bless him. His mistake (guilt) was his failure in front of the fortress at Palotta. When Arslan-pasha heard that the sultan had begun his military campaign he mobilized the Buda regional army and besieged the fortress at Palota which is located near Szekesfehervar and was a refuge for outlaws who beyond all limits attack into the Ottoman lands. But, when the cursed Austrian king Ferdinand learned that the sultan had started his campaign he mobilized an army that he commanded and sent to attack Arslan-pasha and forced him to abandon the siege of the fort. As Arslan-pasha was forced to retreat to Buda and defend it the infidels occupied the fort at Vesprem and then the fort at Tata and joined them to their dirty lands and began to wait for the Islamic army.

As a result of this development, administration of Buda Eyalet was handed over to the sanjakbey of Bosnia Mustafa-pasha, brother of the grand vizier. Mustafa-pasha, the most capable of all viziers appointed as “valija” of Buda, a year ago won the fortress Krupa in Bosnia and more than 1,000 of his men saluted the sultan near Volupara. Therefore, it was considered appropriate for the sultan to reward him by making him the Buda beylerbeyluk. Later, with the Karaman beylerbey, he was stationed by the lake near Szekesfehervar to defend Buda. The Rumelian beylerbey Šems Ahmed-pasha at this camp was ordered to go forward and take the fort. Also sent was Ali Portuk, and the experienced commander and famous hero Nasuh-bey, the sanjakbey of Pozega to go assess where the trenches and shelters should be dug.

The next day the sultan moved to the next camp and arrived at Sigetvar. The sultan’s tent was set up by the lake at the north side of Sigetvar. But, as this place was within range of the cannons in the fort it was deemed unwise to stay there and so the tent was moved to the place where today is found his sacred tomb. But in this place it was very tight from all sides and it was difficult to walk because of the bush and the forest found there. The loggers and the sultan’s personal servants got to work and cleaned and straightened the area making it smooth. After that more tents were set up but the previously set up tents were not taken down until the fortress what taken.

His majesty the sultan set himself up here on 7 August 1566. The third vizier Ferhad-pasha and the Anatolian beylerbey Mahmud-pasha attacked the southern and western sides of the fortress, while the fifth Vizier Mustafa-pasha and his younger brother, the Rumelia beylerbey Šems Ahmed-pasha, attacked the north side. In between Ferhad-pasha and the Rumelian units in trenches entered the janissary Ali-aga and his janissary soldiers. On the west side of Ferhad-pasha were stationed commander Ali Portuk and the Pozega-bey Nasuh bey. Thus began the attack on the fort on all four sides, day and night. Mehmed-han of the family Zulkadrije, who was the governor of the “ćustendil” sanjak, was given guard duty and ordered to go to the other side of the lake and swamp formed by the river Almas. On the sixth day New Town was conquered the town fortress and more than 600 infidel horsemen were killed.

After that, the dike/dam was torn down so that the waters creating the lake that surrounds the inner fort would drain. After a few days the lake emptied. But it was not safe to enter the ponds and puddles which were such obstacles in which even camels could drown. In a few days the ponds and puddles were filled with bags and made a wide path to the walls of the fort.

After that, the idea was born to attack the fortress palisades by pouring oil at the base of the palisade and then set on fire. In the fortress there was still one more group of unbelievers. This group committed much effort and they sacrificed one for the other. Soon, on all sides posts and beams were burning. Some broke behind the obstacles (walls?), meanwhile, more obstacles appear in the form of earth-filled walls which no guns could damage, nor was there a possibility they could be demolished. The unbelievers were repairing (filling) the walls with earth and from the inside through support strengthened them.

There was no opportunity to create a breach through cannon or musket fire. When, however, the Islamic soldiers were planning an attack the enemy were throwing bombs while the injured Islamic soldiers turned their long spears to the enemy and advanced. The janissaries threw long hooks, pulled out the unbelievers into the fields and cut off their heads. It is not possible to document and explain all the battle tactics used during the attack on the fortress.

Finally, on the 7th day of Greek month Agistosa (10 September???) and order was issued for a full-scale attack. All soldiers, in accordance with their obligations as Muslims, threw their fury and didn’t give the enemy an opportunity to open their eyes and with Allah’s help we succeeded in taking the fortress. In this charge many Rumalian timariots, “zaimi” and heroes from the ranks of the army, as martyrs moved from this empty world and arrived in the immortal life.

As it is told, Nikola Zrinski, the commander of the fort, an unbeliever known for heroism, realizing that his end is near, put a hat on his head, put on a nice suit, pocketed a 100 gold coins as a reward for the janissary who cuts off his head. If you pay attention to what the infidels write, they say he had a sword passed down from his ancestors, unsheathed it and turned on the Islamic soldiers. From the other side a janissary hit him in the chest with a musket ball and then an arrow hit him in the head and then his dirty soul travelled to hellfire and damnation.

After the Islamic army rested that day, the viziers and superiors went to inspect the fortress to see what sort of facilities and equipment are located there. In Zrinski’s house, which is reminiscent of a pig-sty, a gunpowder magazine was set up. Either one of the cursed put a slow fuse or one of the soldiers collecting war booty threw (dropped) fire, the gunpowder exploded causing damage to many people, many of whom were thrown so far to the bunker where arrows were stored. However, none of the state's senior officials were hurt by the explosion.

That is how the fortress on Sigetvar became an Islamic fortress with Iskender bay, the alaj-bey of Pecs, being given the duty of sanjak-bey. Positioned were a kadija (Muslim judge), dizdar (castle commander) and muhafiz (guardian, warden) and provided with all that is required for equipment and supplies. While the Islamic army was in from of Sigetvar fifth vizier Mustafa--pasha, who was in Akin, the twenty-ninth day of the same month with his brother, beylerbey of Rumelia Šems Ahmed-pasha, with 2,000 Janissaries and two aga units of cavalry army were sent to conquer Bobovac fortress. When they came to the fortress, the bastards (cursed) who were inside, that evening abandoned the castle and fled.

By the goodness of Allah this fortress also passed into the hands of Muslims and in four days, after which they fulfilled all requirements returned and joined the sultan’s horde. After that permission was given to go on raids. A large number of raiders launched into a frenzy around Nagykanizsa, Berzence and Konora and the rich loot (spoils), alive and well returned to the sultan’s horde. [[User:NikolaZrinski|NikolaZrinski]] ([[User talk:NikolaZrinski|talk]]) 18:41, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:06, 24 September 2023

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Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2021

My request is to change the part in the summary that says "Result Ottoman victory" to "Result Pyrrhic Ottoman victory". Pyrrhic means that a battle was won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile for the victor.

Being as Count Nichola Zrinsky inflicted 10 times the casualties as his garrison suffered, Suleiman the Magnificent died during The Siege, and it was aprroximatly a hundred years before the Ottomans tried to invade Europe again, I think this is a much more accurate description of the actual result. Just plain "ottoman victory" sounds like the they won. And while they certainly captured the town, I think most people would argue that count Zrinski succeeded in breaking the Ottoman army at Szigetvár. Not unlike the way we view the Battle of Thermopylae actually. The Spartans lost, technically, but inflicted so many casualties on the Persians that we consider it a victory. Minus the Spartans, everything I have said is supported in the Wikipedia article in question, with most of it being taken directly from the summary box (I don't know what else to call it. The thing with the main picture and brief overview). I'm not trying to make any radical changes about facts. I'm just trying to help the description convey what happened better. Thanks! 107.191.2.62 (talk) 18:08, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The weight of reliable sources must refer to it that way. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:14, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Note: In addition, such request is against WP:MILMOS#INFOBOX. Melmann 18:18, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Many sources say the victory was pyrrhic.
I do not understand what the problem with that is. ZidarZ (talk) 13:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In Hungarian historiography this is a great Hungarian-Croatian defender battle against the Ottomans. The 100,000 Ottoman army was halted for weeks and they lost 20-30,000 men by 2-3000 Hungarian-Croatian defenders, finally the Ottomans won but the planned full Ottoman campaign stopped. The sultan died. Zrínyi ordered a fuse be lit to the powder magazine. After cutting down the last of the defenders the Ottoman Army entered the remains of Szigetvár and fell into the trap. 3,000 Ottomans perished in the explosion. I think these things are sourced in the article.
I found a great explanation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SilVXqdffw4 OrionNimrod (talk) 15:15, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that it was a "pyrrhic" victory.
I do not understand why anyone is opposed to calling it a "pyrrhic" victory. ZidarZ (talk) 18:45, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nikola Zrinski's final speech

Is anyone interested in the full speech that Nikola Zrinski allegedly gave before the final sally in which Zrinski and his remaining officers were killed. The following version is a compilation from sources in Latin and Hungarian and then translated to English. There is no on accepted speech and this version provides a sense of what may have been said. How much of the speech is worth including?

English version of the speech.

According to Željko Zidarić, the speech is:

Zrinski steps onto a makeshift podium and addresses the crowd of soldiers.

Zrinski [Speaks loudly, with genuine conviction and strength.]

My beloved brethren, true valiant men! We can see how our Lord God harshly punishes us with these flames. Our enemy cannot defeat us by their heroism on the battlefield with a sword in hand, and thus they weaken us with this cowardly but cruel fire and the smoke that chokes us. The punishment that the Almighty Lord sends fits our sins. We must bear this punishment with a grateful spirit for we suffer not only for forgiveness and purification of our sins but also for the sins of our Homeland. Unfortunately, we can see now that staying here is not possible even if we want to, no matter how heroic we are. For this there are three reasons: first, the fire grows stronger and we will burn; even if we extinguish the fires we are few and will not be able to hold out for long, that is the second reason. The third reason is that we do not have food or water. Look at the women and children, suffering, hungry and thirsty. Do we want to stay and perish in this fire?

Remember now the oath I swore at the start of this siege, how first I pledged allegiance to you and then you pledged allegiance to me. With God as our witness, we swore to live together and die together. Thanks be to God that so far among us there has been no treachery or betrayal and there will not be any now. I advise we reject any shameful and inglorious thoughts of ignominious surrender at the end of our steadfast lives and adhere to our long-standing military honour and fulfill our duties as best we can.

Soldiers, let us go out from here into the Fortress, as only true men can. Let us show the enemy our middle finger and fight valiantly with them face to face, chest to chest, to the death, so that our deaths will be spoken of with good and honourable words. Those of us who fall will be with God, while those who survive will be celebrated with honour. The ages will not forget our heroism and virtuous deeds; they will celebrate them forever.

I have lived free and I will die free! Therefore, I want to be the first to go, in front of you, and you will follow me. What I do, you do the same. Believe me, my beloved brethren, even unto death I will never abandon you!

Source: "As Only True Men Can: Nikola Zrinski's Last Stand at Sziget", by Željko Zidarić, 2019, pp 491-492


Originals in Latin


According to Wechel, the speech, in Latin, is:

Mei fratres, et strenui milites! num re ipsa, et ante oculos simul cernimus omnes, qua ratione nos Deus igne hodie puniat, igne nos hostes nostri superant et vincunt; nec tantum eorum nobis potentia et copiae nocerent, quantum ignis et incendium damni dat, nosque pessundat. Nihilominus tamen hanc poenam a Deo Optimo Maximo immissam, patienti gratoque animo perferre nos decet; hac enim, non solum ob nostra nos peccata, sed etiam ob provinciae huius flagitia, punire voluit.

Quapropter, ignorare vos minime arbitror, quo pacto antea fidem meam vobis dederim, vosque mihi vicissum, sancte, et Deo interposito testo, per iusiurandum promiseritis: nos hic una sumul victuros et morituros esse. Et quidem ad hoc usque temptus, Deo sint gratiae, nihil mali commissum, nec ulla inter nos proditio deprehensa est: quod et nunc nulla penitus ratione accidere debet. Iam cuncti in praesentia videmus, quod hoc in loco longius moram protrahere et perseuerare, etsi vellemus, non possumus; idque tribus de causis.

Prima est, quod hic flammis et incendio consumimur; altera, quod nostrum admodum pauci sunt; tertia, quod commeatu caremus, vobisque infantes et mulieres, fame sitique pereunt. Quapropter, cur igne hic conflagrare volumus?

Sinitote, exeamus foras in exteriorem arcem, strenui milites, mediumque digitum hostibus ostendamus, et cum eis fortiter manus conseramus; ut post interitum et mortem, quisque nostrum famam sibi et gloriam comparet sempiternam. Qui occubuerit, aeuum cum Deo sine omni dubio aget: cui vero ufura vitae longius concessa fuerit, in eaque superstes manferit, is summis laudibus nunquam non celebrabitur. Atque hac de causa, ego omnium primus esse volo, vos primo foras praecendere; et quod ego facturus sum, hoc idem et vos facite. Certo mihi credite, fratres dilecti, me vos ad rogum usque non esse derelicturum.

Source: "Rerum Hungaricarum scriptores varii, ..." Wechel, Marnius, Aubrius, 1600. pp. 529-530


According to Istvanffy, the speech, in Latin, is:

“Quonam in loco res nostrae sint, commilitones, et quam duriter atque improspere nobis fortuna consuluerit, perspicue cernere potestis. En eo deventum est, ut non virtute aut, vera hostium vi, sed intempestivis ignibus ob ruamur.

Itaque ego vobis magis supremae necessitatis index, quam consilii auctor processi; neque enim ut cadentibus rebus nostris, hic manendo pertinacius cum irata fortuna ignibus ustulandi colluctemur, sed neque ut majore animi mollitie, quam Chriftiani nominis viris militibusque conveniat, subita consternatione acti, infamem deditionis conditionem amplectamur, deliberare, aut consulere in animo habeo. Verum sicuti ego nuper vobis, ac deinde vos mihi Sacramentum praestitistis, ut mutuis animis consiliisque egregie et fortiter simul vivendum, et simul moriendum statuamus: ita nunc hortor, et quantum maxime possum suadeo, ut turpi repudiata sententia, anteactae militiae et gloriae constantissimo vitae exitu satisfaciamus.

Adeo fortuna virtuti nostrae invidit, ut jam nihil nobis praeter arma, et animos armorum memores reliqui fecerit: et perpetua ac ignominiosa servitus obeunda sit, si, plus, quam viros decet, ferrum timeamus. Honestiora igitur consilia, et magis decora sequamur, contemta omni degeneris vitae cupidine, et in media arma ruamus: ita ut nos et honeste vixisse et decoris veraeque laudis et constantiae tenaces, e vivis excessisse testemur, atque adeo apud posteros nostros totumque orbem terrarum, gratam et aeternam nostri memoriam relinquamus.

Agite milites, me modo sequimini, sicuti hactenus sequuti estis, et ceu a fronte salutaria a me exempla hauriatis, qui bus nec superbi et fallaces hostes, se nobis vincula, carceres, catenas, quod omnium miserri mum foret, iniecisse gloriabuntur, et facta virtutemque nostram nulla, quin justis laudibus efferant, unquam saecula conticescent.”

Source: "Regni Hungarici historia ... ", by Miklós Istvánffy, 1724.

NikolaZrinski (talk) 17:02, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Self-published source reverted

Kansas Bear reverted an addition that I made based on the fact that the source is "self published". What is wrong with self-published? How does self-published = not good?

This Wiki page does not say that self-published sources cannot be used.

Wikipedia:Identifying and using self-published works

So, the question is WHY?

Especially when there are few English sources that provide a depth of details and since self-publishing is growing more and more popular.

NikolaZrinski (talk) 19:36, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Per WP:RS, "Anyone can create a personal web page or publish their own book and claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published sources are largely not acceptable. Self-published books and newsletters, personal pages on social networking sites, tweets, and posts on Internet forums are all examples of self-published media. Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications."
Željko Zidarić, does not appear to be an historian.[1] Feel free to take your concerns to the Reliable Sources Noticeboard.
The previous addition was also a self-published source.
Ante Mrkonjić,does not appear to be an historian, either. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:42, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your comments are confusing because
Wikipedia itself says: Self-published sources can be reliable, and they can be used.
I look at your edit history and you have added little of value, other than delete work done by other people. It is odd considering that you are not Croatian nor are you a subject matter expert in this area. NikolaZrinski (talk) 20:01, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]


  • "I look at your edit history and you have added little of value, other than delete work done by other people."
LMAO!
  • "It is odd considering that you are not Croatian nor are you a subject matter expert in this area."
Nice battleground comment. --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:22, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So, I continue to be a victim of an aggressive wiki-bully.
What is YOUR level of credibility in Croatian history?
Did you not read the post that I make in this talk section? "Nikola Zrinski's final speech"
Read the Latin, and then read the English. Is it not a good translation?
Can you provide a better translation or English language source for the speech?
It almost seems like you are interested in holding back improvements rather than promoting progress. NikolaZrinski (talk) 20:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment on "Nice battleground comment." is silly.
You attack me, you act like a bully and then I am the "bad guy" because I questioned you about your credibility.
Wow - what a nice welcome I have received to Wikipedia. TY for that. NikolaZrinski (talk) 20:31, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Quote with no reference

Siroxo says that "Wikipedia works with verified sources and quotes from some reliable books, you can't just change and delete an existing source, ..."

I find this strange because the quote that is on the page has no reference to a verified source.

The quote on this page

...Let us go out from this burning place into the open and stand up to our enemies. Who dies – he will be with God. Who dies not – his name will be honoured. I will go first, and what I do, you do. And God is my witness – I will never leave you, my brothers and knights!...

According to Siroxo , this quote with NO references is more credible than a better translation of a quote originally in Latin.

If quotes need to be from verified sources, then this quote should be deleted. NikolaZrinski (talk) 09:46, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have self-reverted after mistakenly reverting what looked like content removal. The quote you reference is from a different editor's edit summary. I have no input into this content discussion. Apologies once again. —siroχo 09:54, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at what happened, you will see that
  1. I posted a better quote but with a reference that Kansas Bear did not like and so he removed my quote
  2. I posted the better quote with references to old sources in Latin. The veracity of the translations can be easily ascertained as I posted the source quotes in Latin in the Talk section.
  3. You deleted my second post with the credible sources
Now the article has a quote with no references being "credible" but the quote that I placed, which has references is not credible.
By Wikipedia rules, should the present unreferenced quote be allowed to stay? NikolaZrinski (talk) 10:07, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Question for Siroxo.
You protect a quote that has no reference. It appears to be a popular "Internet" quote but there are no academic references for it.
Is the web blog "BadAssoftheWeek" a credible source? "HistoryNet" but there is no source. Maybe "Total War Center" is the credible source this is from?
According to the wikipedia "credibility" rules, this quote should be deleted. NikolaZrinski (talk) 10:02, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I returned it because you deleted this source [[2]] , and what is written before. Which you say has no source may be written in Shelton 1867, page 82-83 the source below the quote. Put sources where it says so that everyone can read what you wrote just has to be a source to read. Please @Silverije: I hope that you will get into editing the page, you understand history. I won't edit anymore when I don't really know it.Bye83.131.65.132 (talk) 10:56, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have to tell you that I was wrong back. He put the sources, but I don't know what exactly is written in those sources, let someone check it with a historian, I just made a mistake. My mistake. Please @Silverije: @Joy: edit the page. I don't know, I won't mess around anymore, do what you want and check the sources, Bye83.131.65.132 (talk) 11:44, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at the page from a few days ago you will see that the original quote does not have a reference, If you read the reference for Shelton you will see that it is not a source for the original quote. It is appreciated that you admit you made a mistake, but why make such a "mistake" when you do not read references (talking about Shelton) or understanding other languages? For verifying quotes in other languages, Google Translate will give you a reasonable translation to check the veracity of the translation presented.
If you do not like the quote that I placed, maybe you prefer this quote
… Sinitote exeamus foras in exteriorem arcem ſtrenui milites, mediumq̃; digitū hoſtibus oſtendamus, & cū eo fortiter manus conſeramus, vt poſt interitū & mortem quiſque noſtrûm famam ſibi & gloriam comparet ſempiternam, qui occubuerit, euum cum DEO ſine omni dubio aget: cui vero vſura vitæ longius conceſſa fuerit, in eaq̃; ſuperſtes manferit, is fummis laudibus nunquam non celebrabitur.  Atq̃; hac de cauſa, ego omniū primus eſſe volo, vos primo foras præcedere.  Et quod ego facturus ſum, hoc idem & vos facite.  Certo mihi credite fratres dilecti, me vos ad rogum vsq; non eſſe derelicturum.  Pofthæc ter IESVS exclamat, atq; …
Source: Historia Sigethi: Totius Sclavoniae Fortissimi Propugnaculi quod a Solymano Turcarum Imperatore nuper captum Christianisque ereptum est, ex Croatico serone in Latinum conversa, by Ferenc Crnko, translated to Latin by M. Samuelem Budiman Labacensem, 1568.
This is a translation to Latin of the original work by Ferenc Črnko, who was a participant in the defense of the siege. Črnko's book was "Posjedanje i osvajanje Sigeta"
The modern Croatian version is:
»Hodimo, vitezi, van iz toga grada u veliki grad i ondi se pobimo na lice (prsa o prsa) s našimi neprijatelji i ondi pomrimo da nam bude po našoj smrti dobar i pošten glas! Ki umre, oće z Bogom biti, a ki ostane, oće vazda dobar glas imati. Zato ja oću biti prvi i ja oću najprvo pred vami pojti. Ča ja budem činil, to i vi činite! Verujte mi, moja bratjo i vitezi, da vas do smrti nigdar neću ostaviti«.
Source “Podsjedanje i osvojenje Sigeta i popratni tekstovi” by Ferenc Črnko, 1971
English translation
Freely (by our consent), let us go out into the outer citadel, strong soldiers, and show the middle finger to the enemy, and join hands with them with strength; so that after destruction and death, each of us may have everlasting fame and glory for himself.  He who has died will live forever with God without any doubt; but he who has been granted a longer life, and remains alive in it, will be celebrated with the highest praises of all times.  And for this reason, I want to be the first of all, to precede you first outside; and what I am about to do, you do the same. Be assured of me, my beloved brethren, that I will not forsake you even at the end.
The information has been presented and I will let the experienced editors do what they want. NikolaZrinski (talk) 13:03, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I put back what I removed because I deleted the sources and that the user Siroxo is not his fault but mine. Let more experienced historians check this, that's why I invited them to join the conversation and edit the page. I don't want to comment on the rest of what you wrote, I don't know.83.131.65.132 (talk) 13:42, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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