Talk:Baptism: Difference between revisions
m Malfunctioning bot, see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Vital_articles_and_Cewbot |
→Non=Christian Baptism History: new section |
||
Line 57: | Line 57: | ||
This article is way longer than it need be, largely because of repetition. As an example of this, try searching for the term "Trinitarian formula". [[User:Doug butler|Doug butler]] ([[User talk:Doug butler|talk]]) 21:43, 3 March 2021 (UTC) |
This article is way longer than it need be, largely because of repetition. As an example of this, try searching for the term "Trinitarian formula". [[User:Doug butler|Doug butler]] ([[User talk:Doug butler|talk]]) 21:43, 3 March 2021 (UTC) |
||
== Non=Christian Baptism History == |
|||
In Egypt, in ancient Heliopolis (the “City of the Sun”) the Pharaoh, who was the living manifestation of god on earth, would enter one of his private temples ‘the House of the Morning’ at sunrise each day to be sprinkled with water. This act was a symbolic unification with the sun-god Ra, who was believed to be reborn at dawn via the waters after his journey through the night; just as human beings were reborn via the waters of the amniotic fluid. In a depiction at the temple complex in Karnak, the Pharaoh Rameses II is shown having water poured over him by the gods Thoth and Horus. As Professor Richard Gabriel notes in Gods of our Fathers: the memory of Egypt in Judaism & Christianity (2001) |
|||
However tempting as it may be to see baptism as an original Egyptian rite transmitted to us via Christianity, it’s important to note that baptism rituals were also practised by cultures with no discernible relationship to Egyptian or Judeo-Christian religious systems. Prescott (1843) describes a pre-Christian Mexican baptismal ritual that astounded the conquistadors with its similarity to those they knew; and 12th century Norse chronicler Snorri Sturlason describes baptism among pagan Scandinavians in his histories. So we can see the near-universal importance of baptism with water across all of humanity. [[Special:Contributions/218.215.44.183|218.215.44.183]] ([[User talk:218.215.44.183|talk]]) 18:25, 25 December 2023 (UTC) |
Revision as of 18:25, 25 December 2023
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Baptism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 60 days ![]() |
![]() | This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
|
Immersion
Does the statement: "The earliest Christian baptisms were probably normally by immersion, complete or partial." really require nine separate citations? Mannanan51 (talk) 00:49, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- - probably not, see WP:OVERCITE - tertiary sources like the Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible could be removed without affecting the article - cheers - Epinoia (talk) 02:27, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Maybe, as such is debated, and it would be good to have several sources. Misty MH (talk) 10:50, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
Early description of baptism missing
There is an early description of baptism from the 2nd Century, I think, that I did not see included in this article. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find it because I don't know the actual words, but it referred to them speaking or pronouncing the name of the Father over the person to be baptized. Anyone know where this missing information would be in the church fathers? Misty MH (talk) 10:49, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Misty MH, the Didache? Elizium23 (talk) 17:53, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- I don't think so. I spent many minutes trying to find it but with no success. I'll have to wait to find the book I have with this. It was the first entry in a devotional from the "Church fathers". Misty MH (talk) 15:12, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Section 5.7, Catholicism, inaccurate
The second sentence, "Catholic doctrine holds that the baptism ceremony is ordinarily performed by deacons, priests, or bishops, but in an emergency can be performed by any Catholic." is inaccurate. It should read: "...in an emergency can be performed by any person." Reference: Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1256, which reads: "In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize, by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes." — Preceding unsigned comment added by BF2021 (talk • contribs) 21:07, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
- Ah, thank you for pointing that out. I've expanded it a bit and clarified that point. I hope this is helpful. Elizium23 (talk) 06:14, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Fix the Table formatting?
Is there a way to fix the Table formatting so that the column "Beliefs about baptism" is much wider than the rest, since it almost always has way more text in it vs. some column like Infant Baptism which on my screen was just about the widest column but had maybe just one word (No, Yes) in it? Misty MH (talk) 05:38, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Redundancy
This article is way longer than it need be, largely because of repetition. As an example of this, try searching for the term "Trinitarian formula". Doug butler (talk) 21:43, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Non=Christian Baptism History
In Egypt, in ancient Heliopolis (the “City of the Sun”) the Pharaoh, who was the living manifestation of god on earth, would enter one of his private temples ‘the House of the Morning’ at sunrise each day to be sprinkled with water. This act was a symbolic unification with the sun-god Ra, who was believed to be reborn at dawn via the waters after his journey through the night; just as human beings were reborn via the waters of the amniotic fluid. In a depiction at the temple complex in Karnak, the Pharaoh Rameses II is shown having water poured over him by the gods Thoth and Horus. As Professor Richard Gabriel notes in Gods of our Fathers: the memory of Egypt in Judaism & Christianity (2001) However tempting as it may be to see baptism as an original Egyptian rite transmitted to us via Christianity, it’s important to note that baptism rituals were also practised by cultures with no discernible relationship to Egyptian or Judeo-Christian religious systems. Prescott (1843) describes a pre-Christian Mexican baptismal ritual that astounded the conquistadors with its similarity to those they knew; and 12th century Norse chronicler Snorri Sturlason describes baptism among pagan Scandinavians in his histories. So we can see the near-universal importance of baptism with water across all of humanity. 218.215.44.183 (talk) 18:25, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- C-Class Christianity articles
- Top-importance Christianity articles
- C-Class Christian theology articles
- Top-importance Christian theology articles
- Christian theology work group articles
- C-Class Catholicism articles
- Top-importance Catholicism articles
- WikiProject Catholicism articles
- C-Class Eastern Orthodoxy articles
- Top-importance Eastern Orthodoxy articles
- WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy articles
- C-Class Oriental Orthodoxy articles
- Mid-importance Oriental Orthodoxy articles
- WikiProject Oriental Orthodoxy articles
- C-Class Anglicanism articles
- Top-importance Anglicanism articles
- WikiProject Anglicanism articles
- C-Class Lutheranism articles
- Top-importance Lutheranism articles
- WikiProject Lutheranism articles
- C-Class Reformed Christianity articles
- Mid-importance Reformed Christianity articles
- WikiProject Reformed Christianity articles
- C-Class Baptist work group articles
- Unknown-importance Baptist work group articles
- Baptist work group articles
- C-Class quaker articles
- Low-importance quaker articles
- WikiProject Quakers articles
- C-Class Methodism work group articles
- Low-importance Methodism work group articles
- Methodism work group articles
- C-Class Latter Day Saint movement articles
- Mid-importance Latter Day Saint movement articles
- WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement articles
- C-Class Seventh-day Adventist Church articles
- Mid-importance Seventh-day Adventist Church articles
- WikiProject Seventh-day Adventist Church articles
- C-Class Jehovah's Witnesses articles
- Unknown-importance Jehovah's Witnesses articles
- WikiProject Christianity articles
- C-Class Religion articles
- Top-importance Religion articles
- WikiProject Religion articles
- C-Class Atheism articles
- Mid-importance Atheism articles
- C-Class Judaism articles
- Unknown-importance Judaism articles