Talk:Nights: Journey of Dreams

Not necessarily the final title...

Just making a note that if you do a Babel Fish translation of that Famitsu news article, there are notes that the title is subject to change. So don't put that they confirmed the title, just that they stated it. :) --Nick R^Talk 17:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Template:NiGHTS series

I just created the template, it seems appropiate for it that it has a sequel now. OBEY STARMAN 17:27, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Why is all the content gone?

This is ridiculous. Someone explain why nearly all of the article's content was removed? Lurcho 05:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Title

Shouldn't the title of the article be =NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams=?

Yes, but, some people disagree with 'NiGHTS', and prefer 'Nights'. 'NiGHTS' is the proper/official spelling, and, therefore, the most recognized. NNR07 17:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Requested Move

I believe that this page was moved under faulty reasoning. According to official SEGA sources, the name of both the game and the character within is spelled 'NiGHTS'. Since eBay and iPod maintain their trademarked capitalization, I see no reason why NiGHTS should be different. -Rikoshi 23:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually it was moved with a clear consensus that is backed by a Wikipedia guideline that specifically deals with these sort of questions. - Cyrus XIII 00:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Also unless I am mistaken the reason that eBay and iPod are where they are is due to this part of the WP:MOSTM. Trademarks beginning with a one-letter, separable lowercase prefix do not need to be capitalized if the second letter is capitalized, but should otherwise follow normal capitalization rules. NiGHTS however does not follow this so it is not used for the title. --70.48.108.236 02:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. 'NiGHTS' is the more proper spelling, such as 'iMiXES' (or something along the lines of that) in the iTunes store. It's the oficial and most recognized. 'Nights' is just more confusing, imo. NNR07 17:03, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that the name NiGHTS goes against wikipedia guidlines and being "proper" is not enough to overrule it especially since there was a clear consensus (listed above) not to use it. This is also the reason why Sicko (film) was not moved to SiCKO. --69.156.207.239 03:13, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I can understand the use of proper English however, I can not see why it allows discrimination against such stuff. After all I do believe its a registered trademark. Why can it not keep its registered trademark excluding "proper English" and "against rules" as a factor? If stuff like eBay and iPod can keep their registered trademarks there is no reason that stuff like NiGHTS and SiCKO should be treated any differently.

Agreed. It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Bah, oh well. As long as the character himself is capitalized as 'NiGHTS'.NNR07 14:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Boxart

Doesn't the boxart look kind of fan-made? I mean there's no rating and the quality is bad. --Coconutfred73 18:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing it's the temporary boxart, but it's from IGN so I thought it was fine. As we get closer, the final boxart will be unveiled. I bet it will look similar but feature the rating, Sega logo and the Nintendo Wifi Connection seal on it. Swisspass 08:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Release Date

Amazon lists the release date as November 13th, 2007. Is that dependable enough information to stick in? 64.183.72.179 16:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)KA Rose

I'd say so. Gamestop also confirms it as the same day. NNR07 14:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Info in "release date" section does not correlate with release date in right hand colum - can this be verified and rectified? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.132.10 (talk) 10:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I was on http://www.sega.com/games/game_temp.php?game=nights&lid=gp_nights&lpos=nav_pldwnlst and it said Nights for wii fall 2007--FrosticeBlade 16:00, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

... Wait, shouldn't it be "NiGHTS"?!

Instead of "Nights"? 208.101.155.204 04:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

No it should not because NiGHTS goes againts the WP:MOSTM. There was also a requested move on the first games talk page were the conensus was to use Nights and ther mostm has not changed since then. --67.68.152.197 07:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

... But it's still officially NiGHTS. If a move is requested, why not keep it confined to the actual name of the article? No need to change the actual name of the character. 208.101.155.204 13:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

As mentioned eeariler it goes against wikipieda Guidlnes and it was also mentioned earlier a requested move on the first's game talk page produced a clear consenus to use Nights over NiGHTS. To be more percise the MOSTM page it states Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment. NiGHTS does not use nomrmal capitalisation rules so should not be used as the title because that would be special treatment. There are a few exceptions (such as words that start with a lowecase letter) but none of them apply to the use of NiGHTS. In short there is very little chance of a requested move being successful. --67.71.77.222 06:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Um, yes. But let's keep it confined to the actual name of the ARTICLE, and make a note of it somewhere. 208.101.131.232 17:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Release Date

A revision was recently made to the Japanese release date, which was edited to Winter 2007. The information comes from a recent trailer, which can be seen at http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24445.html. Asotoku 18:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Trailer Platforms: Posted September 01, 2007 @ 5:09 am Release Date: November 13, 2007 This winter, prepare to return to the land of dreams.--FrosticeBlade 19:08, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Journey of Dreamss?

Why was the article moved to NiGHTS: Journey of Dreamss? It's not spelled with two Ss is it? Goron0000 19:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

It isn't. Result of a botched move by a user. Fix for the article is being requested at Wikipedia:Requested moves. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 01:22, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

This move is frowned upon.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=938874&topic=37932951 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.131.232 (talk) 17:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Then take it over to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Apologies for having a standardized way of formatting articles and not kow-towing to the preferences of a small group of fans on the Internet. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 06:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I know how you feel ;-;. 'NiGHTS' is indeed the correct spelling, and I still don't understand why someone decides to "Do the proper thing" when it's not helping anyone, and it's actually CONFUSING people more. And, FYI NeoChaosX, it's not kow-towing, and practically all NiGHTS fans agree with spelling it 'NiGHTS'. It's the right thing to do. It's just wikipedia's style guide that's getting in the way. NNR07 21:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of how many fans think it is the "right" spelling, this isn't just an article for fans. It's supposed to also be able to inform a user who may not have heard of Nights before understand the game. The Manual of Style is structured so it would be easy for the average person - not a fan - to understand and read. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 21:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

This isn't about the fans. "NiGHTS" is copyrighted by Sega, and is their intellectual property, not "Nights". Saying that it's "because of the fans" means that you've probably never even played it. 208.101.136.228 11:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. NeoChaosX, this article is for everyone. Therefore, NiGHTS's capitalization SHOULD be capitalized as 'NiGHTS' so the average reader knows it is the proper and correct way. Otherwise, it will give the unknowing reader the impression that it is not capitalized like so, even though the fans KNOW that it is capitalized as "NiGHTS". All fans know it is capitalized as "NiGHTS". People who aren't familiar with NiGHTS don't know that, and it should be at least stated somewhere "(The correct spelling being 'NiGHTS' )". Like said above, it is also the correct copyright spelling. Not just something a bunch of fans made on their own. See 'Nights' and 'NiGHTs' if you're more interested in fan-made spellings.NNR07 21:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Small point but to the user that posted above the last one. Using NiGHTS because Sega copyrighted clearly violated the MOSTM making that argument irreleveant. --70.48.111.217 21:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

---

I can't believe I'm dragging myself into this debate (it's almost as silly as "Is Sonic's middle name 'The'?"), but here goes... :-) This is a fairly long comment so I hope nobody minds me using horizontal rules to group it together.

First of all, for reference, here's a link to the earlier discussion on this at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (trademarks)#NiGHTS into Dreams...

Copyright

Obviously the basic names "nights into dreams" and "nights: journey of dreams" are trademarked (their logos certainly are; the ^TM is clearly displayed), but is there any evidence that Sega has actually registered them as trademarks with any particular capitalisation? I had a quick look though the PAL manual for the original game and couldn't see anything along the lines of "'NiGHTS Into Dreams', 'NiGHTS', 'Claris Sinclair' and 'Elliot Edwards' are registered trademarks of Sega Enterprises Ltd." - with that capitalisation or any other.

(Of course, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm well aware that the above paragraph could be completely wrong - as laymen's discussions about copyright often are. But I am curious about this.)

But regardless of what the trademark status is, the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) takes precedence on this site, and that states, "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment." Hence the building blocks are called "Lego" through most of that article, even though the company makes clear that it wants people to use its preferred capitalisation of "LEGO®".

Article names and body text

Wikipedia:Manual of Style does note that it's just a guideline, and can be overridden if there's an alternative consensus. But one obviously hasn't been reached in our case! :-)

One thing that's clear is that the article names should use "Nights", because Wikipedia:Naming conventions states: "Follow standard English text formatting for article names that are trademarks. Items in full or partial uppercase (such as Invader ZIM) should have standard capitalisation (Invader Zim)."

So that's not a problem. The question is: what should be used throughout the body of the article? There are three possibilities:

1. We use "NiGHTS" throughout.
2. "Nights" with a note somewhere that it's often written as "NiGHTS".
3. "Nights" throughout and not even acknowledge the alternative.

As a fan of the game who uses "NiGHTS" when discussing it elsewhere, I would prefer #1. But I wouldn't complain about #2 if that's what the MOS and consensus suggests.

If we do pick #2, we should justify it by referencing a few places (NOT message boards) which have used that capitalisation. The PAL game's manual uses NiGHTS, and games magazines and websites differ in what they use (Edge has used both variants, in different issues).

This comment was too long. --Nick R^Talk 01:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

---

#2 is already in use in the articles for both games. Sega's typeset is mentioned in a neutral, unobtrusive way during the lead and the respective cover art should serve as a sufficient source. - Cyrus XIII 02:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Gamereactor nights.jpg.jpg

Image:Gamereactor nights.jpg.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Please ignore that tinhead, BetacommandBot. It has NO idea what it is talking about.

Actually since the page does not include a fair use rational it actually is a candiaiate for deletion and probally will be deleted unless one is added. --65.95.16.156 21:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

No, it DOES contain a fair use rational. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.37.235 (talk) 08:41, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually no it does not. Adding a Non-free magazine cover template is not a valid fair use rational and has already been reverd and the picture is still up for deletion. For example look at this image Image:CartoonBowserSMB3.jpg as you can see there is a seperate rational listed that is not part of the template. You will need something like that or it will be deleted. --69.156.206.116 03:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it DOES, and very much so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.28.79.204 (talk) 00:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

could we add

we change it to NiGHTS then or Nights?--FrosticeBlade 20:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)