Talk:Michael Moore

Improving this Page

Michael Moore was born in DAVISON

Davison, MI, the birthplace of Michael Moore. It is a suburb of Flint, however it is his birthplace, and it is it's OWN CITY. Watch a documentary that isn't Moore endorsed. Michael Moore Hates America interviews the Mayor of Davison and has the proof that Moore was born in Davison. In fact it's a city shame! People flocked to harass the city over the issue, so please go outside the box for a second, and reference what you write. If Wikipedia, and IMDB are your only sources I laugh, and pity you. So please cease and desist your slew of misinformation. Here is a list of references:

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_701693990/moore_michael.html

http://movies.nytimes.com/person/103383/Michael-Moore

http://stason.org/TULARC/celebrities/michael-moore/1-6-What-was-Michael-Moore-s-early-life-like.html

http://www.transterrestrial.com/archives/000769.html

http://www.tommcmahon.net/2004/08/michael_moore_n.html

http://americandaily.com/article/3748

PEOPLE WHO KNEW MOORE http://www.newtotalitarians.com/MichaelMooreJohnAndMe.html

Sincerely, Someone who is tired of correcting your wrongdoing, STOP THE FLOW OF MISINFORMATION. Lemonhead414 (talk) 20:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davison%2C_Michigan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemonhead414 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

wut

Uh, the info box to the right says he was morn in Michigan, and the first paragraph into the enty says he was born in Canada. Just saying... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.1.124.235 (talk) 16:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

2003 Oscars

There doesn't appear to be any mention of his highly controversial acceptance speech at the 75th Academy Awards - which arguably propelled him into being a household name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.153.56.115 (talk) 02:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Summaries of Movies

Shouldn't this merely speak of movies only as part of his professional life and leave synopsis to the pages of the respective movies?--Dwarf Kirlston 03:58, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup

This article requires cleanup and better organization--Dwarf Kirlston 03:58, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

One thing I noticed was that the second part of the Bio is titled "drops out of school" rather than the more usual "early career" or whatever. This strikes me as being "culturally charged" language and its use as a subheading seems to detract from the impartiality of the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.156.201 (talk) 23:26, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Intro

Should we chage documentry to doucdrama which would be more accurate. Ken Burns produces documentries, without a political agenda or distorting of facts.Kirin4 20:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

No. Turtlescrubber 05:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Could you give me a reason, please. My point would be that in his recent docudrama Sicko he distorted the fact. Similar to what he did in Fairenheight 9-11.Kirin4 11:42, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

What does Ken Burns have to do with this topic? Also, please keep a NPOV in this discussion.

Docudrama, is defined as combines elements of documentary and drama. It may consist entirely of actors performing recreations of documented events. The films do not use actors, but real people. So the description of documentary would be more appropriate. --Statsone 17:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I am using Ken Burns is a legitimate documnetarian which Moore is not. I don't see where I stated a POV. There are many things I could have said but didn't. My point is since Moore's films are are full of falsehoods documentry is not accurate.Kirin4 19:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

POV?

How about your comments including ...Moore's films are are full of falsehoods, ...without a political agenda or distorting of fact, ...Sicko he distorted the fact, and ...is a legitimate documnetarian which Moore is not. --Statsone 19:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I googled this http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/category/clueless-wonders/michael-moore/ Does that satisfy you?Kirin4 19:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

And? It is a blog full of comments. You started the section asking if the film should be called a documentary to doucdrama and use some comments on a blog to change the topic. The films, are made using real people and not actors. It is a documentary. Not a doucdrama . Pointing to a blog full of personal opinions serve no purpose. Please see Point --Statsone 19:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Point does not apply, I can quote books or the video Michael Moore hates America. What is acceptible to you?Kirin4 20:08, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

What does this have to do with the topic? Again, you are showing Point is all you are doing. --Statsone 23:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Again you are missing it, the question I put at the beggining of the thread was documentrian the right term for Moore. We disagree, all you have been doing is making procedural accusations. Please stip making point accusations.65.96.135.42 02:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

As to your question, the answer should be no. Michael Moore makes documentaries, not docudramas. The difference was listed. You didn't reply to these 2 points. You keep bringing up POV, making false statements, etc. Please answer the question at hand:

Docudrama, is defined as combines elements of documentary and drama. It may consist entirely of actors performing recreations of documented events.

If you can show the films made by Moore use actors and not real people, then the discussion can proceed. If not, please stop trying to make a POINT --Statsone 20:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

It can be demonstrated that Moore combines elements of documentary and drama. which is the standard called for. May implies, by definition, not necessarily. The fact that he does not use actors does not mean his films are documentaries.

There has to be a way that can be accptible to describe Moore's film is an advocacy rathger than a straight documentary. He does not present an accurate potrait in his latest film especially whitewashing the problems in the Cuba healthcare system. Can we put as advoacy documentary? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirin4 (talk • contribs) 01:52, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you not stop? --Statsone 04:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

When you stop obstructing a discussion. this is not a moore worship page. I am making valid points you don't want to hear.Kirin4 12:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Kirin4: Please maintain a civil tone. --Pleasantville 12:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I am,http://fundamentalsandfalsehoods.blogspot.com/2007/09/michael-moores-sicko-answer.html here is another example of Michael Moore not being an honest documentarian.Kirin4 12:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, well, while Kirin might have had a little trouble explaining why it should be a docudrama instead of a documentary, and could only quote blogs, how about all the commercials the big three were scrambling to present at the opening of Farenheit 9/11 because Moore ALTERED the footage so that they were no longer what was originally recorded (ex: "I'm not supporting that" edits down to "I support that"). Am I the only one that remembers those? While Moore claimed that he withdrew from the documentary ring for his movie, he also knew it had been so edited it no longer qualified.-- now, do I need to take the time to hunt down an internet site that has archived one of these commercials, or is public memory long enough? WynniFitz 07:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

"Public memory" is not a reliable source. Find a reliable source and it can be discussed. Chris Cunningham 08:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Very well, I hope Newsweek is sufficient, then. I'm still hunting for the spots shown on television. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek/ Last time I checked, distortion = docudrama, not documentary. Documentarys do not push political agendas. This one most blatantly did.WynniFitz 20:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Your definition is slippery. So, too, the above Newsweek piece. Michael Isikoff failed to accurately quote from Moore's narration. In the film, he actually says: "...another group of people invest in you, your friends, and their related businesses $1.4 billion over a number of years...". (The Official Fahrenheit 9/11 Reader, Penguin Books) In addition, the source to which Moore refers on his website reads: "In all, at least $1.46 billion had made its way from the Saudis to the House of Bush and its allied companies and institutions." (House of Bush, House of Saud, Scribner). It's quite broad, though factually accurate. Not that any of this matters. Even if Moore erred in his film -- and I think we can agreed that he did, worst of all on the Unocal pipeline deal -- it still doesn't alter the fact that Fahrenheit 9/11 is a documentary, and classed so by reliable, published sources. smb 22:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

ps. If you examine some of Isikoff's subsequent writing, you will find that he has become much more critical of the Saudi-Bush relationship (and he is not alone). smb 22:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Fahrenheit, or any of Moore's latest films are true documentaries, either. From Wiktionary, a documentary is: (of a film, book etc) Presented objectively without the insertion of fictional matter. The key word here is "objectively". Again, from Wiktionary, Objectively means in an objective way. Objective is then defined as meaning:

1)Of or relating to a material object, actual existence or reality. 2)Not influenced by the emotions or prejudices. 3)Based on observed facts.

The argument is he fails on point 2 in that his work is influenced by emotions and prejudices. The lack of any material offering any sort of counter-view is evidence of this. I don't know iif docudrama is correct, but he does not make "documentaries".Bigrafa (talk) 04:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

This has been dealt with many times of the relevant project page. "Documentary" as defined by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is

"a theatrically released non-fiction motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction." Rule 12

Moore literally makes hundreds of points in each work he produces, and he posts references (further reading, etc.) on his website to accompany each film. He is often accused of cutting corners, leaving viewers unfamiliar with his newsletters bemused as to his intended point, and of making errors. Some he corrects for the DVD release; others he rejects, instead pointing readers to his website. Right-wingers often accuse him of deliberate deceit. They even tried to have his Oscar revoked at one time - The Academy rejected their case. ~ smb 12:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Uh, wow

What happened to this page? It used to be somewhat decent. Now it's completely whitewashed. There's not even a link on the page to the Michael Moore (controversies) page [1]. I mean, I understand presenting someone in a kind light, but not even to mention the fact that he is the subject of extreme criticism, especially about movie-making ethics is just plain wrong. Further, it is completely fine to include summaries of daughter articles into main articles - so I can't even guess why all controversy was removed at all. Stanselmdoc 23:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

There's a see also link to that article. The problem is that scant few Wikipedians are capable of phrasing sections which portray negative biographical information in a way which doesn't make it read like illiterate, point-pushing screed. (unsurprisingly, this is how most "controversies" sub-articles read.) Chris Cunningham 09:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I know. But that doesn't mean that controversy sections can't be written in an NPOV manner. There are lots of articles that have controversy sections that are written well. That's why I was hoping to improve upon the Michael Moore (controversies) page first, and then slowly introduce condensed versions of it within this article. Stanselmdoc 20:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't personally have a problem with that, but I do feel that Moore isn't half as controversial as the average wingnut thinks he is, and that we should try to avoid random cable TV-worthy incidents which won't stand the test of time (which is what the majority of "Moore controversies" are). Have a go if you'd like, but "fact X in Bowling for Columbine is disputed / was falsified / whatever" is about as well as anyone's done so far. Chris Cunningham 21:52, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

"especially about movie-making ethics " that's because no intelligent people have a problem with "move-making ethics" - he has points of view which you can disagree with, but get over that - its not manipulation if you are not clever enough to understand what you see. --IceHunter 00:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Is this inapplicable?

In this edit the following is taken out of the article:

• Moore was interviewed by Charlie Rose in the summer of 2004, and was repeatedly asked what he thought the real reasons were for President Bush's alarmingly aggressive tactics and why so many liberties and rights were being flagrantly disregarded. Despite receiving the question five or six times, Moore's answer was consistently: "I don't know". Michael Tsarion uses Moore as an examplar of faux opposition, i.e. creating your own rival to prevent having to face up to the real one. "That's when I knew he was working for them," comments Tsarion in the lecture "2012 - The Future of Mankind"<ref>Lecture given to the [[Granada Forum]], [[August 3]], [[2006]], video available at [[Google video]]</ref>

The accompanying edit comment from User:ILike2BeAnonymous is "Remove thinly-veiled jab at Moore from a not-too-reliable source, cloaked in citation." Is this attack on Moore inapplicable for the article? __meco 15:43, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

No other contributors supporting ILike2BeAnonymous' opinion I have reinstated this text. __meco 19:27, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I think nobody bothered "supporting" the opinion because the text in question is demented. Moore is secretly working for them? As in the Bush administration? This is a bizarre assertion by someone whose specialist subject appears to be the paranormal rather than politics. Chris Cunningham 19:43, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Other documentries

On section 2.4 I added Michael Moore hates America which he is the focus of and appears in it was deleted. Please explain?Kirin4 18:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Michael Moore Hates America is present under Critical Documentary Films. It's ninety-nine percent archive footage, in any case. Fleetingly sticking a camera in Moore's face for a film in which he does not wish to appear is not the same as, say, The Corporation or Blood in the Face or This Divided State, in which he had some direction. [2] smb 21:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Explaination: as explained above, it is not a documentary he appears in per say. It is listed in Critical Documentary Films where it belongs. To insist it be in the section of other documentaries is simply pushing POV --Statsone 02:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Pets or Meat should be included. Although it only aired a few times on PBS, it has never been released, and its important to have as much information on the movie as possible. It is available online to watch [3] Flintmichigan 00:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Earlier I posted this is not a Moore worship page. Why does anything critical of him get deleted?Kirin4 09:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Could you please read what other post before posting yourself? This is not a worship page but it is a page, with a Neutral Point of View. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It is not a site to force your views on others.

The film is already in Critical Documentary Films where it belongs. It is already listed. It also has its own page. It has not been deleted. It is present on the page and elsewhere.

Please stop point. This is wasting everyone's time. --Statsone 14:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

You stop WP:point you just don't want it. I suggest you read Wikipedia 5 Pillars because you are breaking them. Please do not delete my edits without discussion.Kirin4 15:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Your edits are unconstructive, go against consensus and could be seen as personally damaging. You're lucky that people are even discussing this. Chris Cunningham 09:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Why is Michael Moore Hates American and Celsius 411 removed from other apperances in documentries? He is the focus of the former.65.96.135.42 18:50, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge tags

Does anyone have a view on this? smb 21:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Delete the merge tags. Nothing has been written since August ( now in Archive) --Statsone 02:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Moore's works deserve their own articles, even less popular ones such as The Big One. I support removing the merge tags. Strobilus 17:24, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete done Gang14 07:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

You can watch Michael Moore on Oprah

You could, but would you want to? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tall Terry (talk • contribs) 19:21, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www2.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200709/tows_past_20070927.jhtml?promocode=HP51

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/news/article.php?id=10266

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/news/article.php?id=10291

http://www2.oprah.com/tows/program/tows_prog_whenwhere.jhtml

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

http://www.sickotix.com/

I got this via an email. How I got on this list I don't know but I thought some of you would be interested in seeing all of this about his documentary 'Sicko' --CrohnieGal^Talk 09:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Criticism

Isn't there a criticism section in this article? I mean I can think of the that book "Micheal Moore Is A Stupid White Man" and that whole run in with Matt Stone and Trey Parker over the columbine film, just off the top of my head. And I don't even know anything about this guy! Ryan4314 08:04, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

See also: Michael Moore controversies. Chris Cunningham 10:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Well DUH, how stupid do I look now ay! lol I completely didn't see that! In fact I can't believe I didn't now I'm looking back over the article... It's probably coz I started by looking at the "contents" section first. Cheers Ryan4314 15:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Any chance we can move the link to the Michael Moore controversies article out of "See also" section. Give it a heading of it's own, only so that it can be seen from the contents list, with just few short sentences (probably resembling the first few sentences on Michael Moore controversies article) introducing the article, not actually about the articles content, so we can stay nicely within BLP???

I have a genuine reason for suggesting this, I was so shocked that I hadn't spotted it the first time round, that I emailed 2 of my friends, with a challenge to locate the link on the page. They didn't spot it at first either, lol not that this is in anyway conclusive, it just gives me reason to suspect that people might be missing this. Ryan4314 03:57, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

That'd be assigning it undue weight. Ideally, this article would devote a paragraph to the attacks Moore receives from conservatives and the controversies article would be deleted. Until then, the controversies article is an idiot-trap which keeps this article relatively free from random insertions of contentious material, and we shouldn't really be encouraging people to expand it. But such is the way with Wikipedia biographies. Chris Cunningham 07:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm yea I see what you mean, it's just a shame we can't put it in the contents section. LOL that might even help direct the vandal traffic Ryan4314 08:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Master0ftheun1vers3 (talk) 08:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)Apparently, Michael Moore isn't too fond of fact-checking...and the sheer possibility of the inverse being true is a bit more daunting. If anything comes natural to this guy it is his keen ability to construe the truth. This can be concluded just by cross-examination via the CIA world factbook. I was able to confirm that the mortality rates mentioned in sicko, a film created in 2007, were taken COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT--- then meticulously pieced together amidst a bizarre array of technicolor movie clips circa 1950 with key phrases that cite, if not implicate, a sense of UNAMERICANISM.... I digress, touching back on the infant mortality rates of Detroit and El Salvador, put simply, in 2005 the infant mortality rate was 15.9 per 1,000 live births---How Moore deceives his gullible audience is by introducing an idea that in the "western world" we cannot compare to the success of El Salvador and how their babies fend against Darwinsim....then he changes his comparison to that of El Salvador to Detroit....oh really? Last I checked El Salvador was 25.1 per 1,000 births....curious isn't it?Master0ftheun1vers3 (talk) 08:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Gap in Biography

The biography jumps straight from him working for Nader to 2004, not mentioing where he began film making, etc. I know his films are covered later, but needs mentioning for continuity in his bio. Epeeist smudge 16:10, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Roman Catholic ?

I think it´s impossible that he´s a Roman Catholic. He makes fun so much of religion in his book, that he´s certainly not a religious person at all. Mistico 20:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

No, the article says he was brought up Roman Catholic. ButteredToast 06:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I think he´s a joker, so his claims to be a practising Roman Catholic, can´t be taken very seriously. But he really claims to be a catholic, even if he doesn´t seem to be that at all.Mistico 20:25, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Like it or no, he supports abortion and gay marriage, like he already stated several times. I think this should be mencioned, so people could see what kind of Catholicism he follows. This entry would be incomplete without mencioning that. In his interview, and I invite people to read his own words, he says that he tries to be a practising catholic, not that he is. It´s not the same, so I think it would be better if it appeared that he claims then that he´s really a practising catholic.Mistico 16:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

That is all your particular point of view. Turtlescrubber 21:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

"I'm actually a fairly conservative person. I live a very conservative lifestyle. I try to go to church most Sundays. I was raised Catholic, so I'm Catholic — sometimes a recovering Catholic. I've been with the same woman for the past 26 years." Bolding added. Turtlescrubber 21:08, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Michael Moore, since he´s not a politically correct person at all, I´m pretty sure would like people to know that´s despite considering himself a catholic, he also disagrees with the Catholic Church doctrine about abortion and gay marriage. I ask people to quote his book "Stupid White Man". He´s also a well known liberal, and I can´t imagine him voting for the republicans, at least, for now. Mistico 17:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

It´s tendencious to show him simply as a "catholic" and not saying that he as his own beliefs in some controversial issues. I don´t see why it´s not a NPOV.Mistico (talk) 17:02, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Michael Moore is listed on the donor board at St. John's Catholic Church in his hometown of Davison, Michigan. Kevin mckague (talk) 16:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

There you have it, verifiable evidence of his attachment to Roman Catholicism. If he was baptized and never excommunicated, he should be considered what he says he is. His point of views and actions are the result of a highly informed conscience, and that is a higher goal of Catholicism than holding a party line, especially if he feels that the policy has only been adopted to win enough votes to carry out policies that are less in line with his beliefs. The Metro Times ran a Moore column discussing the Republican Party misuse of the Pro-Life stance. MMetro (talk) 22:45, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Addition

Could someone add this:

• After only four months at Mother Jones, Moore was fired for refusing to print an article by Paul Berman that was critical of the Sandinsita's human rights abuses in Nicaragua. Moore stated that he would not run the article because Ronald Regan “could easily hold it up, saying, 'See, even Mother Jones agrees with me.” Bermen described Moore as a "very ideological guy and not a very well-educated guy" when asked about the incident. Moore sued for wrongful dismissal, and settled out of court for $58,000, providing him with seed money for his first film, Roger and Me.

The article is locked down to me for some reason. Thanks. DJ Creamity^{Oh Yeah!} 00:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Look at that, it let me edit it. DJ Creamity^{Oh Yeah!} 22:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Biography Gaps

The biography section jumps over entire decades of Moore's life. If someone could add to that it would greatly improve the page.DiggyG 02:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Michael Moore Zealots Stronghold

It´s really pathetic that some people want so desperately to show him as a "conservative Roman Catholic". He claims to be that, but he also supports abortion, gay marriage and steam cell research. Why these things aren´t mencioned in the entry ? 81.193.223.31 (talk) 17:13, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Category:Actor-politicians

Should Michael Moore be in Category:Actor-politicians... the thing is... he has been an actor and he has also held elected office. My instict is that he should be in the category because these categopries apply to a person's entire life and not just the present but I wanted to throw it out there before doing it because I know it will be controversial.--Dr who1975 (talk) 16:14, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Nobody has commented on why they think it's unsuitable.--Dr who1975 (talk) 17:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

He is not known as an actor. Check the category description. Turtlescrubber (talk) 05:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

OK... I'll just add the politician category since he ran for and won elcted office.--Dr who1975 (talk) 21:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Removed Category:American socialists... interesting hypocrisy

While Moore's goals may align with socialist ones quite closely, I have never heard him nor a reliable source claim him to be a socialist. I'm confused... you guys leave Category:American socialists on the page which is completely unsourced (socialism isnt even mentioned anywhere else) but you have problems with categories pertaining to him being an actor annd politician which are at least sourcable things he actually did. Please think about the categories on this page more carefully.--Dr who1975 (talk) 22:13, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I didn't see that category, what am I the category babysitter. Interesting arroganceTurtlescrubber (talk) 01:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting interesting.  : ) --Dr who1975 (talk) 02:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Mike, Ralph & 2000

I hope somebody with the know how, will add a section on Moore's participation in the 2000 election (when he supported Green candidate Ralph Nader). GoodDay (talk) 15:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Bush and Anti-Gore Video

Despite the fact that he´s one of the most outspoken people that say that Gore won the 2000 Presidential elections, he directed a strongly aimed anti-Bush and anti-Gore video for Rage Against the Machines, Testify. I think this should also be added to the controversies. But I agree that this page is too "politically correct".81.193.214.238 (talk) 02:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

For it to be a bona-fied controversy, you have to cite a source. Did anybody even care that he directed this video?--Dr who1975 (talk) 04:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

How does a beleif that Gore won the election contradict not supporting Gore during the election? There is no real connection between the two.--Dr who1975 (talk) 04:15, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

That video states that Bush and Gore are the same : "The two are in fact just one." He supported Nader back then, and it´s well known that most of Nader votes would have been to Gore. So, if back then he believed Gore was as bad as Bush, it should be stated that back then he was also anti-Gore. At least, he directed a video that puts Bush and Gore as equals. So, if he believed back then they were both as bad, it should be mencioned.Mistico (talk) 16:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

He supported Nader and directed a video for him... but did Moore say "The two are in fact just one."... I know Nader said it and still stands by the statement. Can you source Moore saying it?--Dr who1975 (talk) 21:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

You never seen the music video for Rage Against the Machine ? You can read about it in the link I give above. The video shows Bush and Gore as basically the same person, and at the end, their faces just become one. We can read the phrase "The two are in fact just one", then. He certainly wouldn´t have directed this video if he didn´t agreed with his message. I´m gonna try to find a link for the video at YouTube. I saw it several times at MTV Europe back then, but I didn´t knew who directed it.Mistico (talk) 13:44, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't need to see the video... I'm trusting you to give me the facts. He can indeed direct a video that he doesn't entirely agree with if he is supportive of the overall cause (i.e. electing Nader as President). Accroding to you, he directed a video but never proffessed it to be his opinion... thank you for answering my quiestion. --Dr who1975 (talk) 14:32, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

If you were talking about other people I probably would disagree, but since is this specific guy, I think you´re right (lol).22:34, 17 January 2008 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mistico (talk • contribs)

THIS DIVIDED STATE

The movie THIS DIVIDED STATE When filmmaker Michael Moore came to the Bush-Loving state of Utah just two weeks before the 2004 Presidential Election an explosion of controversy ripped a quiet, Mormon town apart. "THIS DIVIDED STATE" is a film that captures all the death threats, bribery and family values. --Brown Shoes22 (talk) 21:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

can someone please remove the picture of Moore, it is very distrubing and people shouldnt open the page to see it Koala72 (talk) 09:07, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I loled. — NRen2k5^(TALK), 02:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Why "THIS DIVIDED STATE" is not listed in his published work list?--HATA A. K. (talk) 07:09, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I misunderstood that the film was produced by Michael Moore.--HATA A. K. (talk) 07:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Michael Moore controversies page needs to be merged

After reviewing the Wikipedia policies, it appears to me that it's not just a good idea to merge that page into this one, it's mandated by policy. Creating forks is a policy violation. Chicken Wing (talk) 03:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Where was he born?

This article says that he was born in Davison, Michigan. In the "Davison, Michigan" article it says that he was born in Flint.

It can't be both - either this article is incorrect or the "Davison, Michigan" article is incorrect.

Someone should change the articles to correct this.

70.68.204.198 (talk) 18:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

According to Encarta, "Moore was born in Davison, a suburb of Flint, Michigan." [4] smb (talk) 21:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

There were no hospitals in Davison in the 1950's (unsure as if there are even any now), and while its minor semantics, Moore (as all babies were back then) was born at St. Joseph Hospital in downtown Flint 1954. This hospital is closed now and has been reborn as Genesys Hospital in Grand Blanc, a nearby suburb. Flintmichigan (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Flintmichigan (talk • contribs) 23:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Lemonhead414 posted the following on my talk page, so I moved it here:

Davison, MI, the birthplace of Michael Moore. It is a suburb of Flint, however it is his birthplace, and it is it's OWN CITY. Watch a documentary that isn't Moore endorsed. Michael Moore Hates America interviews the Mayor of Davison and has the proof that Moore was born in Davison. In fact it's a city shame! People flocked to harass the city over the issue, so please go outside the box for a second, and reference what you write. If Wikipedia, and IMDB are your only sources I laugh, and pity you. So please cease and desist your slew of misinformation. Here is a list of references:

• http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_701693990/moore_michael.html
• http://movies.nytimes.com/person/103383/Michael-Moore
• http://stason.org/TULARC/celebrities/michael-moore/1-6-What-was-Michael-Moore-s-early-life-like.html
• http://www.transterrestrial.com/archives/000769.html
• http://www.tommcmahon.net/2004/08/michael_moore_n.html
• http://americandaily.com/article/3748
• PEOPLE WHO KNEW MOORE http://www.newtotalitarians.com/MichaelMooreJohnAndMe.html

Sincerely, Someone who is tired of correcting your wrongdoing, STOP THE FLOW OF MISINFORMATION. Lemonhead414 (talk) 20:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

"Michael Moore Hates America interviews the Mayor of Davison and has the proof that Moore was born in Davison". You are in error. Mike Wilson interviewed Davison city manager Peter Auger. No birth certificate is produced. Auger instead says that Davison was Moore's "home town", not his birthplace, as you falsely claim. smb (talk) 12:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Lemonhead, these are not reliable sources by Wikipedia standards--with the exception of Encarta--but even that is only a tertiary source, which doesn't say where it got its information. On the other hand, the sources that say Flint don't look particularly reliable either. The better idea would be to add a note to the article that some sources say Flint, some say Davison and include examples of each. That's what WP:NPOV is all about. Also, does anyone know of a reliable source that confirms that there was even a hospital in Davison at the time of Moore's birth?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 21:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Research

Because I'm tired of reading about this, I did some basic research in Lexis Nexis.

These three sources support the statement that Moore is "from" or "grew up" in Davison, Michigan, but they DO NOT support Davison as his birthplace:

• "Michael Moore unhonored in home town". UPI NewsTrack. UPI. 2005-01-15. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help) - This source refers to Davison as Moore's "home town" and confirms he went to high school there, but it does not state he was born there.
• Pullen, Doug (2007-10-04). "Michael Moore shows up at premiere of film on '60s radical". Newswire. Newhouse News Service. - Another source confirms he graduated from Davison High School and refers to it as his "home town", no mention of birthplace.
• Lemire, Christy (2007-03-07). "Documentary 'Manufacturing Dissent' questions Michael Moore's tactics". Entertainment News. The Associated Press. - This source states: "They traveled to his childhood home of Davison, Mich., visited his high school and traced his early days in politics and journalism."

Oh, now I'm getting somewhere. These sources explicitly state that Moore was BORN in Flint, Michigan:

• Schneider, Keith (2007-12-05). "Curtains Rise Again". The New York Times. The New York Times Company. - This source states Moore was born in Flint and raised in Davison.
• Monk, Katherine (2007-07-20). "Maverick or huckster?; Manufacturing Dissent". National Post. CanWest Global Communications. - States: "Melnyk and Caine show us how Moore didn't actually grow up in Flint, Mich., as he tells us in Roger and Me (he was born there but raised in a neighbouring town)."
• "Moore, Michael". Encyclopaedia Britannica Online. Encyclopaedia Britannica. 2003. - States: "Moore was born on April 23, 1954, in Flint, Mich."

I trust everyone is now satisfied that Moore was born in Flint, Michigan but spent his childhood in Davison. There is no conflict among these reliable sources; they do not contradict one another at all. --Laser brain (talk) 03:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

City boundaries have been redrawn, at the county hall, it is stated that he is native of Davison, not Flint. The hospital is/was located near the Flint/Davison border.

Brittanica is an encyclopedia, and is not considered a serious research source. It's not a primary source. If you do a search for Davison and michaelmoore.com, you find the Flint Journal saying he was born in Davison - shouldn't *that* be a definitive source?

• Tribute to '60s radical is pure poetry "One provocateur from Davison paid tribute to another Tuesday night as Oscar-winning filmmaker Michael Moore attended the U.S. premiere of "Twenty to Life: The Life and Times of John Sinclair" at the Flint Institute of Arts." (via Moore's website)
• Rolling Stone personal interivew "At the moment, Moore is behind the wheel of his red Chrysler minivan, giving me a tour of Davison, the little town just outside Flint where he spent his childhood." (via Moore's website)
• Associated Press "Davison, Michigan native and "Sicko" director Michael Moore jokes that Fidel Castro would be a "ratings grabber" at Sunday night's Academy Awards show." via Mlive.com - "Everything Michigan"

--David Shankbone 20:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

These do not say he was born in Davison. My three above say he was. But, as I said on your Talk page, I will setting for some statement in the article that acknowledges that different sources say different things. --Laser brain (talk) 20:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

See Free Around USA

Free Events around USA to see projection of the film freely, promoted from Michael's web page.

This is important in my opinion, this is what we can find in the spanish version:

• Visionado gratuito a lo largo de Estados Unidos de América por Michael Moore - Proyecciones libres en los Estados Unidos de América patrocinadas por Michael Moore, desde el 15 de Abril al 24 de Mayo de 2008

(Fjavier (talk) 21:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC))

Another Documenatry that he was in

There is a documentary that Michael Moore was in, that is not listed in the article, It's called "The Drugging of Our Children", it was directed by alternative medicine proponent Gary Null, I can't edit the article because I registered recently and it is semi-protected, but if anyone feels like adding it the reference is : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0850665/

Paglew (talk) 03:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

fat

Is it appropriate to call him fat on his article - although he is fat, is it relevant? Is there a category for fat people? King of the Fondue (talk) 13:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Accusations of fakery

I'm just watching the rather subtle Moore-bashing documentary "Manufacturing Dissent". It claims that Moore faked a scene in his film "Roger & Me" about an alleged "Nightline" interview, which was cancelled because someone stole the TV truck ;-)

Has Moore ever responded to this criticism? I read he did sometime on some webpage, but can't find the link.

As for the point that Moore treated Charlton Heston unfairly and that Heston had only been at a Republican "get-out-the-vote" rally in Flint on Oct. 17, 2000, eight months after the shooting of Kayla Rolland on Feb. 29 (which seems to be correct) - CNN has it clearly that the NRA held a convention in Denver three weeks after the Columbine shooting (which had occured on April 20, 1999), albeit scaled back from three to one days because of protests, where Heston was present. So the famous "out of my cold, dead hands" scene may not be from that meeting, but Moore is essentially correct on the Columbine issue. He apparently isn`t on the second, or was there a "big gun show"? 88.217.92.130 (talk) 00:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

"Appearance" section

At first glance, I thought it was vandalism, until I noticed that the page was locked. It reads like a joke. It shouldn't need to be mentioned that he is "generally considered to be overweight." He's a fatass by any objective standard, and it's clear from simply looking at a picture of him.--96.52.132.224 (talk) 06:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)