Talk:Israel

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Israel and the Occupied Territories Jerusalem as capital

World War II(2) and the effects on Israel

It has came to my attention that not many people know this but israel was not a official country until the end of World War II. Many people belive the greater picture of the war was to make Israel a official country. --Jazz951 (talk) 05:37, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Israel did not exist, officially or unofficially, until 1948. While there were plans for its establishment from the end of the 19th century, and the Balfur declaration dates from 1917, the country itself was only created in 1948. You might say that international support for that was partly motivated by witnessing the horrors of the holocaust, realizing that Jews need their own country so nothing like that would happen again. okedem (talk) 06:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

the problem would be solved if Palestina would be divided 45% to jews and 55% to arabs and not all the way round

Edits

GDP per capita on 2007 is:33,000$ (ppp)'and not 27000$ so someone must change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.0.92.225 (talk) 16:52, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

spelling errors

capital is not capitol. someone want to fix these? i'm not going to create an account just for this. it's found at least twice in the first section. makes it hard to believe the article has won so many awards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.91.252.16 (talk) 01:54, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

The article does not contain the word "capitol" anywhere, only the correct spelling, "capital". I don't understand your complaint. okedem (talk) 19:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Israeli British. Badagnani (talk) 04:10, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Page Vandalized

I cannot isolate any code in the edit feature causing it, but on arrival at the page (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Israel) there is a broken page featuring a racist rant and citing Bob Brown and an address in Missouri. Obviously not to be tolerated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kcarlin (talk • contribs) 00:57, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Could you be more explicit please? I'm not seeing that. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

This appears to have been addressed now. I suspect the offensive content was injected via an ad insertion mechanism, but all appears normal now from here. Kcarlin (talk) 21:07, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Spelling error

"On December 1, 1947 the Arab Higher Committee proclaimed a 3-day strike, and Arab geurrilla attacks began against Jewish targets." in section "Independence and first years".

I think the word should be "guerrilla" and not "geurrilla". Sorry for the fuzz over a small thing but I am not yet autoconfirmed. --Kotu Kubin (talk) 23:09, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out. I have fixed it. Jayjg ^(talk) 03:41, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

PROPAGANDA?

"The United Nations and most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as the capital and maintain their embassies in other cities such as Tel Aviv, Ramat Gan, and Herzliya."

This information keeps being deleted by Okedem. I dont think it is trivia.--Abuk78 (talk) 12:28, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

First off, quick tip. If you want people to take you seriously, don't write provocative titles in ALL CAPS. It's shouting, and it's rude.

What you write is just another piece of information related to Israel. There are many such pieces of information, all true and referenced. Not all of them can be in a article, and certainly they can't all be in the lead. Thus, we have to pick the most important points. The identity of a nation's capital is certainly relevant, and you can see it mentioned in the lead of most country articles. International opinion regarding the capital, is not quite so important. It does not change anything about the capital, which is defined as a nation's seat of government. Jerusalem still fulfills its functions as the nation capital, regardless of what other countries think of it. Thus, that piece of information is not important enough for the lead. It is mentioned in the footnote from the info-box.

Beyond that explanation, note this - this article, like many other contentious ones, has been heavily debated and changed. As always, the lead receives the greatest amount of attention. The current phrasing is the result of many discussions and arguments, and represents the opinion of many editors. This is also the version that got FA status. When you wish to make a change to such an article, the proper way to do so is to suggest your alternative version in the talk page, and get other people's opinions. Constant re-insertion of your phrasings, without trying to discuss things, is edit-warring. Even if you think your version if "the right one", respect other people's opinions, and try to collaborate, not force your way.

I am reverting your version, and adding a link to said footnote from the lead. A change will only happen if there's major support for your change on the talk page, and not before. okedem (talk) 13:22, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Agree that CAPS are rude, but also agree that the the information is important enough to be included here. RomaC (talk) 15:16, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

• This is a true, referenced and important piece of information. "Anyone" can edit FAs. This edit doesn't change the FA status of this article and adds value to the article. But as far as I can see you are another article guardian in Wikipedia. --Abuk78 (talk) 15:25, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I think Okedem is right. This is detailed in the footnote. It is also well explained in Jerusalem and Positions on Jerusalem. It is also detailed in Tel Aviv. No need to push it everywhere. -- Nudve (talk) 15:29, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

How is it relevant enough? It's nothing but a minor point. It changes nothing of Jerusalem being the capital. It has no bearing on the lives of Israelis. For all intents and purposes, by all definitions, Jerusalem is the capital. As interesting as international opinion may be, it is far from notable enough for the lead. It is important for the article about Jerusalem, but not for the entire country, and certainly not for the lead.

If you want to discuss this further - sure. Explain how it's important enough for the lead. Why it's on the same level as the country's location, the few sentences about its history, or its political system. But first - revert to the stable version, instead of pushing your version by force. okedem (talk) 16:42, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed; classic case of WP:UNDUE. Jayjg ^(talk) 05:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I disagee with Okedem. It seems clear (see Positions on Jerusalem article) that this article should instead state "Israel claims Jerusalem as its capital". The existing phrase "Jerusalem is the country's capital" indicates bias and asserts something as fact which is contrary to majority international opinion. Wikiwikiwwwest (talk) 15:24, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Israel controls Jerusalem and there for it is the countries capital even though its disputed. I agree that there should be a comment added on afterwards saying something like, it is the capital although this is disputed by some etc. Information on another article or in a footnote is not going to be seen by many people so it would be helpful to include it but i dont see the need to say its "claimed by" that too would be bias in my opinion. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:35, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

"Control" isn't even the point. There's no precedent anywhere I know of for other countries to have any say whatsoever regarding a country's choice for capital city. They can have an opinion, certainly, but for every country in the world, throughout history, it appears that their capital is exactly where they choose their capital to be. "Claim" indicates bias; neutrality simply says "Jerusalem is Israle's capital." --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Judaism in the Bronze Age

"The modern state of Israel has its roots in the concept of the Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael), which has been central to Judaism for over 3,000 years"

The latter statement is inaccurate. The only source given is a page from jewfaq.org, a creationist website. It should be changed to "which is central to Judaism". Bob A (talk) 20:17, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

the world's only Jewish state

'Israel is the world's only Jewish state', appears as a strange statement to me. Does it not come close to implying that the normal state of affairs is that most peoples have several states specifically designated for them ? Or that there should be more than one ¨"Jewish state" ? The statement could perhaps be deleted or changed to : 'Israel was established, as a country where Jews could settle after World War II. [ref]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mokgand (talk • contribs) 23:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

The movement to establish the country started in the 19th century, long before WW2. There are dozens of Christian and Muslim states in the world. The is just one Jewish state. That's the meaning of that statement. It's what makes Israel unique. okedem (talk) 08:20, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Who broke the ceasefire

Please someone correct false information in "recent developments" section, which erroneusly reports that Hamas broke the ceasefire. Actually Hamas re-started hostilities against Israel only after the ceasefire was ended (http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-12-18-hamas-declares-end-to-ceasefire-with-israel), while it was Israel who first broke the ceasefire back in november ( "http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians).--Heartpox (talk) 12:06, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Given the fact that dozens of rockets were fired at Israel during the supposed "ceasefire", I disagree. Israel acted against an immediate threat, in a very specific place, whereas Hamas fired rockets indiscriminately into civilian population. okedem (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Dear Okedem, I am not discussing here weather or not Israel reacted to an immediate threat. I am just saying that the truce did not collapse in december after rockets were fired from Gaza, as the article says. This cannot be true simply because the truce was supposed to end on Dec 19, so it did not collapse. The sentence, in my opinion, should read as follows: In late December 2008, after the end of a six-months ceasefire on December 19, Israel responded with a series of airstrikes against Hamas in response to rockets fired from the Gaza Strip." --Heartpox (talk) 13:30, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

P.S.: If you have information on continuous rockets firing all along the ceasefire, you should update accordingly the article dedicated to rocket attacks in 2008. From that list I can see that no rockets were fired between end of July and November (but still Israel attacked Gaza on the 5th of November breaking the truce [1]).

Agreed it is a biased comment that it collapsed AFTER Hamas fired rockets into Israel. It should just say after HAMAS announced it would not renew the ceasefire or along those lines. BritishWatcher (talk) 14:18, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

missing part

This article doesn't provide sufficient information of how the jewish population accumulated from 1881 to 1947 acquired the terretories which it then assumed control on.

83.65.163.194 (talk) 17:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

• See History of the Jews in the Land of Israel, which will take you to Chronology of the Jewish settlement in the land of Israel in modern times; those should provide the information you seek. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:59, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

israeli v jewish

it is important to remember the tribes of Israel of which the jews were only 1

israel was the jewish homeland and the palestinian homeland was next to it

it seems to me that the israelis had only taken back part of israel up until 1946, but after this time instead of trying to get back the majority of their historical homeland to the north and east, they turned on the palestinians to the east, something to which they had no real claim

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace+Process/Guide+to+the+Peace+Process/Declaration+of+Establishment+of+State+of+Israel.htm

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/The%20Mandate%20for%20Palestine

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/History/Modern+History/Centenary+of+Zionism/The+Arab-Israeli+Wars.htm#1948

can anyone clarify for me ??

Chaosdruid (talk) 18:02, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

There was no trace of "Palestinians" back during the time of the Jews in Israel. The West Bank is just as much a part of the historical homeland as the rest of Israel. Jews had not "taken back" any part of Israel until 1946, because there was no country then. The entire territory was controlled by the British. There were Jewish villages in what came to be called the West Bank, and those were depopulated during the 1948 war, like Arab villages in what came to be Israel. Historically (Biblical times) speaking, Jews had the same claim to the West Bank as to the rest of Israel. It is known there was no "Palestinian People" in biblical times, and their origin is unknown. Some guesses are that they descend from Arabs migrating from the Arabian Peninsula (during the great Muslim conquests of the 7th century); that they descend from peoples brought to Israel by the occupying powers (Assyria, for instance); that they descend from some of the Jews that were not exiled by Assyria, but converted to other religions; and several other assumptions. Perhaps it's a combination of all, perhaps something else. okedem (talk) 08:15, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

you didnt click those links i put in - they are from the israeli government

plus the philistines were around during bible times - where did they live ?

Chaosdruid (talk) 17:01, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I visited your links. They don't say what you claim they do.

The Philistines, who you can read about in their Wikipedia article, lived in the lower coastal plain, in a stretch of land from Jaffa to Gaza. There's no evidence linking them to current day Palestinians. okedem (talk) 17:21, 2 January 2009 (UTC)