Talk:Elevator

Way too few citations/references

For the detail, there are too many sections that have no references or footnotes whatsoever. Too lengthy for me to correct; anyone available to handle this?

70.105.206.173 (talk) 06:10, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

should this be added?

i just recently found this article, but I do not know if it is to be included in this article.| link to the newspaper article about it | link to youtube film about it

Olof nord (talk) 22:19, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Numbering merger

• Keep It's fine as it is. The numbering schemes mentioned are specific to elevators and are relevant to the article. --Kerowyn 05:54, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Unique Elevator Systems

I added two sections, one on the elevator system found in the Gateway Arch, and the Fourth Street Elevator in Dubuque, Iowa. And I also put these articles, plus the part of the article on the Hannover City Hall elevator into its own section called Unique Elevator Systems.

How about we move this section into its own topic ? We could easily fill several pages with unique installation details. Let's not detract from the basic information about elevators. OZ_Rhett 07:22, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I point out to you the it:Ascensore Castello d'Albertis-Montegalletto, an innovative horizontal-vertical lift in Genoa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.23.87.74 (talk) 14:40, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Climbing elevator

Add more details on self-ascending climbing elevators used in some towers and guyed masts for easier access to the top.

"Sabbath elevator"

Can anyone confirm the existance of a "sabbath elevator"? That bit sounds like a joke, particularly the pun about "useful work" at the end.--Yakiniku 05:49, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Ask Google; see http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/39/Q1/ jdb ❋ 06:50, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Working for an elevator company, I can confirm that we do offer a sabbath day service operation, and have done for several years OZ_Rhett 07:22, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Really? This seems really rather strange... if not wonderfully apt. I was about to move it to BJAODN. --Sum0 14:23, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

As a response to the existing example requested in that section, I'm not sure if this still exists but see [1]. Graham talk 07:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

As an aside, it would be nice if there was a bit about "extra" buttons beside the floor buttons, ie. the "close door" button that is usually present in Japan but not in England, and the "emergency stop" button that is usually present in movies but not in reality, etc.--Yakiniku 05:49, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've rarely seen elevators in the US that don't have _some_ kind of emergency stop switch, although newer ones are rarely operable without a key. jdb ❋ 06:50, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Most of the elevators over here in australia have an "Emergency Stop" Button fitted. Emergency stop mode can be exited by pressing another floor button. James Garrod, Brisbane Australia 13:13, 24 March 2006 (AEST)

In the United States, Emergency Stop Switches (they are called rather than buttons) are a code requirement. The key used to stop it, usually is placed in the machine room for the mechanic to access it and stop the elevator if they wish. [jpalnow]

In the US, elevators are required to have both a) an emergency stop switch and b) an emergency call button. The stop switch (called the 'rape switch' by elevator mechanics) latches in position, the idea being that the person actuating it is then free to fend off an attacker. The emergency call button is a momentary contact button that sounds either a bell atop the car, a bell on the exterior of the building, or sounds an alarm at the building's security console. At least this was the situation when I worked at US Elevator in the early 1970's. LorenzoB 00:02, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The Jewish General Hospital has sabbath elevator service. If you don't believe me and want to kill about 20 minutes, see for yourself.

I believe that some large hotels have this as an option. You're not likely to attract, say, a convention of rabbis without it. WHPratt (talk) 17:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It's very common to have these types of elevators in hotels in Israel, as you may have guessed. --Fez2005 (talk) 00:50, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

About extra buttons

The "close door" AND the "emergency stop" buttons is usually present in Norwegian elevators as far as I know, there is also usually an "alarm" button to alert security if the elevator gets stuck between floors. (Jan 19, 2005)There is an emergency stop button on every elevator in the united states by code

I'm not so sure of that. Many modern elevators that I've seen have an emergency stop switch, which can be activated with a key. (I've read that the unkeyed buttons led to mischief.) jdb ❋ 06:47, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes, US law requires Emergency Stop buttons. On the contrary, places like Hong Kong and Japan have in recent years banned Emergency Stop switches in case it is misused. Some older elevators have had this button decommisioned. In these places Door Close buttons are also present to close the doors, whereas most US elevators do not have them. [gsblo]

Renovations

Occasionally building owners will have the entire elevator system replaced. I know of one case in Dubuque, Iowa where the Dubuque Building had elevators that were probably over 50 years old. A couple years ago they replaced everything. It struck me as kind of unusual to do that considering how much work would have to be done, but considering that the elevators were old and not in very good shape they probably figured it'd just be more cost effective to do that.
JesseG 02:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Here in the United States, we call them modernizations. We go in and rip out all old elevator controls. Usually the only thing remaining in the elevator systems are the rails, elevator cab, entrances, door sills, and door jambs. Everything else will be completly replaced along with all old wiring removed and traveling cable. The elevator control system (most often time called the Controller) will be replaced as well with new solid state engineering. Depending on the rise of the building, and the amount of elevators, Modenizations can take anywhere from 3months to years and years. The current Modernization happening at LAX (Airport) is quoted at around six years to modernize all elevators and escalators. Modernizing elevators can be cost efficent because in the long run it will take more to maintain it than it is to update it. Also parts come into factor, because after companies go out of business and elevators get older and older, parts become unavailable for the elevator, as in case for alot of Elser Elevator equipment and Westinghouse equipment. Fifty years old is not that old for an elevator, I've seen elevators as old as 1919 still running. Some building owners are too cheap to update. [jpalnow]

Its modernization everywhere as far as I know. There are different levels of modernization. Cost is proportional to how much you want to change. The control system is most likely replaced with new AC equipment. Quieter and smoother rides as well as lower power consumption are touted. Generally, elevators in Hong Kong are modernized anywhere between every 15 - 30 years or more. There are plenty of elevators without automatic doors running, and until the destruction of a recent building downtown, Hong Kong's first traction elevators at the Man Yee building were staffed with operators who controlled the elevators manually. Gsblo

The Caesar Park Hotel Taipei elevators underwent modernization by the same manufacturer, Mitsubishi, but only the buttons and displays were updated. The original cab's soft lighting and wood trim remain undisturbed. Thought this was worth noting :) Petershen1984 (talk) 16:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I added a section on Modernization in the main article! There are some very good facts in this discussion that could be used to expand the stub. 114.32.84.177 (talk) 17:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Energy?

How much energy does it take for an elevator to go from one floor to the next? How much energy is required for each additional passenger? This question was asked here but didn't have a satisfying answer. —BenFrantzDale 08:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

On a recent modernization project, we measured the power consumption by an empty 550kg capacity elevator (7 people). It takes approximately 300kJ for it to descend 25 floors. Gsblo

I watched as an elevator technician tested a new Mitsubishi Elevator. A power clamp meter was attached to the controller (which adjusts power output to the traction motor). At 380 volts, the current was 12 amps at startup and 6 amps average. The power output changes depending on elevator position. When the elevator goes up empty, the counterweight helps to pull the car. But as the elevator ascends past midpoint, the traction motor needs to work against the counterweight to maintain its rated speed. These figures are given for an elevator doing 90 meters per minute, and carrying 600 kgs of payload (test weights) and an undetermined weight of the cab itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.32.84.177 (talk) 17:34, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Fourth Street Elevator

Despite the name, the Fourth Street Elevator isn't an elevator at all, it's a Funicular. It was named at a time when "elevator" had yet to be fixed in its present meaning. However, it doesn't really belong in this article. I will remove this section if no-one objects. ProhibitOnions 16:02, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Done. ProhibitOnions 14:05, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

"Close" button

In my whole life I've only come across one elevator where the close button causes the doors to close. I've heard that it's always put there, but not hooked up to anything - to provide psychological relief while waiting - to give the occupants a sense of control. Is this true, or are the door close alogorithms such that pressing the button normally has no effect? Josh Parris#: 22:35, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Hahah! They do work in my country, and one place where it doesn't is the Taipei Metro's handicap access lifts to the platforms and exits. In this case they once worked, but was disconnected to give passengers more time to enter and exit safely by defult (after all, the train doors don't have a door close button!!). Despite claims of "psychological relief" from your sources, it's actually annoying when it's not closing when you want it to.59.115.54.138 (talk) 14:05, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Close Button elevators actually work. They are seen everywhere - all of the new elevator's I've been to in Canada, Hong Kong and Japan have them. The moment you press them as long as nothing's obstructing the light gates at the door they close. [gsblo]

Close Buttons do actually work. I repair elevators for a living - most close buttons shorten the timer in the circuit and allow for faster door closing. If you ever come across an elevator on independant service, you will find out quickly that the door close button actually works. Also in Fire Service mode phase two, the open and close buttons must work according to code (in the United States) [jpalnow]

Ancient Egyptian Elevators ?

I have seen drawings of contraptions that lift things from Ancient Egypt. These looked very much like the oldest contraptions in this articles history section. Would they be relevant in this article?DanielDemaret 14:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Elevators for urban transport

Add more examples of elevators used for urban transport!

Floor Numbering Convention

I don't think this has been mentioned, but in North America, floors are usually numbered G, 2, 3, 4... or 1, 2, 3, 4... whereas British (and places part of Colonial Britain) have floors numbered G, 1, 2, 3, 4. Gsblo 05:51, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed that it usually depends on the building and what they wish to call the floor. I've seen LL (Lower level) G (Ground) B (Basement) P1 (Parking one), it all depends on the building's arangement. I would think it would be unfit to make that assumption about North American Elevators [jpalnow]

This has indeed been discussed a lot. Have a look at Floor. ProhibitOnions 01:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

i'm sure you mean Floor_numbering. Gsblo

Hydraulic elavators (from my talk page)

I noticed you made a change to the "Elevator" page in Wikipedia. You inserted "install a new elevator" instead of new piston.

I have worked as an Elevator Mechanic for many years. You do not modernize a elevator just because the old cynlinder is bad. You replace the cynlinder (most often referred to, as a jack) with a new one, and line it with a large PVC piping. You then install a new polished steel piston (free from straches), along with new packing around the piston. All this can be done without replacing the elevator.

Modernizing an elevator is a very large task, and just because a jack went bad doesn't force the owner of the elevator to modernize it, completly. A Modenization, as discussed, in the talk section of elevators, consists of replacing the Controls, Fixtures (including buttons, COP panel, hall signals, car signals), wiring, hoistway switches, selector unit, sometimes the motor and generator set.

Please reply to me, by leaving a comment on the discussion page for elevators, Thank You.

I have knowledge on Elevators and Escalators, I've been in the field for many years, any questions, just ask. Sorry I have not logged into my wiki account.

OK, sorry about the revert before, and thanks for explaining that paragraph. I have changed "install a new elevator" to "install a new piston", and also mentioned that the old cylinder must be replaced. I've also removed "logically" and "actually" as they disrupted the flow of that paragraph. I suspect that paragraph has been tampered by someone else, which is why it didn't make sense before. I'll check the history and report back if I find anything of note. Again,, thanks for your contributions; you can sign entries on talk pages with four tildes like this: "~~~~". Regards, Graham talk 10:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

It seems that I am responsible for that error. I tried to copyedit what was at that time a mess of an article; it contained most of the information in the article now, but it was much more disorganised and contained many misspellings and strange wording. I then tried to copyedit the safety section, and introduced the error. I feel horrible for that; I'm usually very cautious about changing the wording in fear that I might introduce inaccuracies like that. I probably should have been studying for mid-year exams instead of editing wikipedia on that day anyway. :)

Would you be able to check out the article elevator consultant, and perhaps expand it, correct it, add good external links ETC. I only recently discovered it, and it hasn't received a major edit since February 2005. Fifteen months is far too long to have an article go unnoticed like that. Graham talk 10:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Elevator News Stories?

Should someone start a new section in the article documenting some recent elevator accidents etc,.?

For example, elevators made by Schindler KK killed a kid in Japan when it started ascending with the doors open. Gsblo

-- Japan's is investigating into Schindler??? Thats weird, I'm sure the mechanic who took care of the elevator had something to do with it. I've have crazy stories of elevators trying to kill me because some fool jumped out a safety circuit. [jpalnow]

--- Yeah they are. They've raided their Japanese offices and seized documents. They are also sending people over to Switzerland to investigate, and "voluntarily" questioning Swiss execs going to Japan. They think its not a maintenance problem but a problem in the design, and all of the experts I know think the same too. The elevator no matter what should not be allowed to move like that with doors open. Gsblo 06:32, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I amended the article because in some parts it reflects only one point of view.

-- Please sign your name. Thanks! It seems like your edits have shown a more biased view. From the news stories on the Internet, it does not seem that anyone has said that Schindler is fully cooperating with the investigation apart from the company itself. When accidents of the same nature happen all around the world and all originate from the same company's products, i'm a bit surprised you're not questioning this. I work in the industry and for the past week, this topic has been discussed all week. No one in the industry believes that this is merely a coincidence. Please show me an incident where an elevator started rising with its doors fully open like the Tokyo case that does not involve Schindler. There are cases where the door is shut and someone gets caught in between, but that is different; the fact that these Schindler cases involve elevators all made in the same couple of years. I am willing to discuss these claims technically if you wish. Schindler is known for its outsourcing of parts in the industry - its how they keep prices low and win public tenders - that's why most of Schindler's Japanese elevators are in public buildings or areas. Walk around a department store and chances are you will see Mitsubishi, Hitachi or Toshiba, or even OTIS. Gsblo 14:47, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Good to have someone in the industry here. I also wonder whether earthquake prone Japan is just going to expose the very worst about any elevator system, and especially those from a foreign maker like Schindler whose elevators might have been designed for and tested in a country where the ground is more stable. And all of this on top of the scandals about architectura and building firms falsifying earthquake proof data for so many buildings in Japan.

There is obviously a lot of rage in Japan about this accident and rightly so. This is reflected in some of the latest contributions such as in "Japan is now acting very angrily against Schindler" or how with no citation someone can say that most of 5000 elevators are faulty in their country. This does not often lead to unbiased writing by such authors, however. Non-Japanese reading this might also keep in mind that Japanese people and the law in some respescts tends to treat the accused and suspects in ways that convicted criminals are treated in other countries. The case of Live Door President Horie is a good example of this. Authorities locked him away in solitary confiinement all winter to intimidate him into giving a confession. Nobody in Japan objects to this. It is normal. I am not insisting that the Japanese change their ways, but merely pointing out this difference for the benefit of readers who may wonder why some outraged contributors may write some of the biased things they do.

Horie and Schindler may well be proved cupable in the end, I would agree. I merely question the notion of allowing verdicts to be posted ahead of their time in an article that purports to be objective or neutral.

Still, I might urge some restraint in edits of these shows of outrage perhaps until things cool down a little. With such outrage about it might only lead to an unproductive edit war. WC June 13, 2006.

-- I don't think it's to do with their inexperience with earthquake mechanisms. Hong Kong does not have earthquakes and yet the Fanling case took place in Hong Kong. I don't understand how earthquakes (or the possibility of earthquakes) can generate quirks with controllers (such as the inability to open doors upon landing). The fact that this story has made headlines in Japan every day since the incident shows that Japanese people are concerned. I saw on TV how the COO of Schindler, told reporters one minute that their elevators "have never resulted in fatalities due to its design", and when reporters ask for fatality records, they go "we do not publish figures on fatalities of our products".

Earthquakes are well known in Japan for knocking air conditioners out of balance so that the water trays don't drain properly and drip all over your room and you have to pay a lot to have some technician to come and fix it. I would not say their impact on elevators is zero. Hong Kong does have extremely high humidity and that can have negative effects on some materials. It isn't just Schindler. No elevator company publishes fatality figures that I know of. It would not be surprising to find that it was the fault of the maintenance staff. Japan is well known for its poor maintenance record in other areas. Such as with nuclear reactors as the one at Tokai Mura, or the current investigations into the fire shutters at that school where inspections were neglected and a boy was nearly killed.

Japan is the only country I know of where building firms were allowed to falsify so much earthquake proof data for all those hotels and condos they built that have been in the news for so many months. Is there any country that compares in having produced so many problems in the area of building saftey? In the news just today it was revealed that 100% of the contracts the goverment awarded for public works were deemed inappropriate in terms of bid rigging and awarding the contracts to companies which gave jobs to retired public executives in order to gain favors. It would not be surprising to find that such public works including public housing were badly designed stucturally and that this could endanger people as well.

I read the newspapers. The story isn't really headline news (in the senes of being one of the stories that gets strong emphasis as one of the top items) everyday--if something new comes up they simply report it, that's all. It is natural for some people who exagerate immediately following the accident, but it is still an exageration, and that needs to pointed out. It is in the news for sure. It is not the top news story anymore. Not everyday. Other bigger stories have pushed that one aside, like Bank of Japan Governer Fukui being involved with the tainted Murikami fund, the World Cup, and the Japanese woman who strangled the 11 year old boy. The story is not dead, by any means, but many other stories get more attention.

According to all the reports, the fault could indeed lie mainly with the Japanese housing corporation an entity of the local goverment (who failed to report many problems in earlier stages which might have lead to the prevention of this terrible accident) as well as Schindler. We do not know the outcome of all the investigations yet. It seems the whole industry including building management and elevator maintenance companies don't think they were doing enough in the past and are now rushing to upgrade the services they provide. I don't think all those people think that only Schindler elevators are vulnerable to such accidents. 218.218.61.59 11:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

--What about the accident of an elevator in the Hospital de Bellvitge, Barcelona (Spain)? On May 21st, 1989, one elevator of that hospital fell from the 7th floor down to the bottom, killing seven people who were inside it. The technicians determined a piece was broken, probably a bolt that subjected the cables, then the safety braking system didn't work as it was supposed, letting the cab fall at 70 Km/h and crash. A witness who heard the crashing told it was like a bomb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.152.226.238 (talk) 12:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Schindler Incident and Length of Article

Everyone, I'd like to suggest that we try and keep contributions short. Wikipedia guidlines encourage this. If you want to make a sister project or another entry for Elevator accidents please feel free to do so. This page is just a general article about elevators after all.

When you add what an article says to this section you need not summarize the whole article in several lines. A summary of one line or slightly more than one line might be sufficient, using bullet points when possible. Readers can get the details from the articles you have cited. On the other hand, a key detail or two is useful like the date or location of the incident just in case the link expires and readers would like to have some indication of where and when the incident happened.218.218.61.59 12:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

---

I've removed the section to Minato Ward 2006 elevator accident. I thought it was notable enough to keep.--Iorek85 02:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Schindler plates in Chiba

I condensed this discussion that was going on on the article page. But I thought it might be worth keeping some of the text here for easy reference or discussion as to if and how it might be incorporated somewhere in the futrue. Some of the subesections are getting too long perhaps and some of the things written to give background information don't have enough citations ie, they seem to be just someone speaking from his personal knowledge which is good as far as developing an overall picture of things for an ongoing event where it is not possible to get a satsifactory amount of backgroiund information all a¥t once, but something that might belong at first on the discussion page. Also,.If you see something important on TV you might also say when (date) and on what station (NHK or TBS etc.) you saw something.

• Chiba Prefecture, Japan, June 2006 -Similar to Minato Ward incident although with no fatalities also involving Schindler elevator. Incident first occurs on June 1, 2 days before the Minato incident. Investigation reveals no irregularities but same type of accident takes place days later on June 10th. [2]. These elevators are still maintained by Schindler.

Schindler's maintenance sticker was shown on Japanese television several times, along with a security guard that is permanently deployed inside the Chiba elevator. The stickers or plastic plates - a common Chinese/Japanese thing to do is to post a plastic plate of the maintenance firm about 10x5cm on the lobby of the elevator with the emergency number to call if someone is trapped]

Split into lift and elevator

This would be a bad idea, right? Can someone tell JohnnyBGood that on Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 11? He said the following:

Why would it be wrong to have a seperate article for "lift"? Infact it would go a long way to countering US bias.

--SPUI (T - C) 10:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Also at Talk:Highway with full control of access and no cross traffic#Suggested way forward. --SPUI (T - C) 19:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

It would not only be a bad idea, but - I do believe - against current WP policy, which states that articles should not be split according to POV... and BrE/AmE differences could be regarded as POV. However, although I disagree with splitting the article as it's against WP policy, I do understand his point about "US bias". I am British.. and I fully understand these feelings. Since we currently only have one version of an "English" language Wikipedia, we must share our versions of English. As the policy says, all varieties of English are valid. However, one of my own bones of contention is that although all varieties of English are valid, there are a LOT more articles which are written in American English than there are in any other type of English. This is, I suppose, because the population of the USA is greater than that of any other (primary) English speaking country - therefore there are more American authors than there are anyone else. So it is understandable, but I think that more understanding must be made of other varieties of English.

This article itself states at the beginning: "Outside North America, elevators are known more commonly as lifts." Basically saying that they are known as "elevators" only in ONE primary English-speaking country, while in ALL the others they are known as "lifts". But despite the fact that the minority - only one country - uses the term "elevator", then the article is entitled as such anyway, just because there are more Americans on Wikipedia. I think this needs to be addressed. Just, not by splitting the article :) Thoughts, anyone? EuroSong ^talk 01:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

-- Another example of how Europeans want to run everything. Just leave the article alone, you forget, not just the US refers to them as elevators, but Canada as well.

Hmm so that makes a grand total of lets see now....um two isnt it.....yeah, thats right TWO whole countries that call Lifts "Elevators". How many English speaking countries call them lifts I wonder? Jcuk 88.107.237.73 10:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I respect that Wikipedia encourages "fairly reflecting" all varieties of English, but one should also factor in the total population that uses a word. AFAIK, vertical transporation systems of all types are far more predominant in the United States alone than in any other (primay) English speaking country -- simply given the sheer magnitute of high-rises and supertall buildings for which they are a necessity in major metropolitan areas. To re-title the article to reflect the non-U.S. flavor of the term, would actually be far more misleading to the public at large. Choice of terms for article titles should not be just be about ratio of countries that use them, but ratio of the populace that uses them. The United States leads the world at 67% of the world's native English speaking population, The UK and Canada are only 22%. Hence, well more than half of English first-language speakers understand the term "elevator" over "lift". --Rkrause 00:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Quotations needed

Sources/quotations needed for lift accidents. --Akral 21:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Article rename?

"Outside North America, elevators are known more commonly as lifts". If this is the case shouldn't the article be moved to Lift (Transport) and the sentence read - "In North America lifts are known more commonly as elevators"--Mcginnly | Natter 19:16, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with that. Normally I don't bother with this kind of discussion. But this is different:

• With articles like behavior, changing to behaviour would be against WP rules - it's only a spelling difference
• With elevator, however, I think another rule applies: WP:NC(CN). The most common name should be used for an article, and the article clearly states that elevator is only used in N.America, thus being the less common variant. MrTroy 13:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with an article renaming. In fact, 'elevators' are not only called lifts in all other english-speaking countries, but is also common in other languages, an example being German, in which 'Lift' is just as accepted as 'Aufzug'.

WP:ENGVAR: "Stay with established spelling", "Follow the dialect of the first contributor", and WP:NC(CN): "Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things". Compare the number of significant terms with distinct, non-derivative meaning on Lift (4) and Elevator (disambiguation) (2). The article should stay where it is. -- Exitmoose 02:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. There are many entries on both disambiguation pages, and Lift is used the world over - Elevator is not. You might as well say that we should rename the article Aufzug - it wouldn't clash with anything, but it also wouldn't help most of the world who aren't using the German word for the device; it being about as helpful to 90% of the world as using the term 'elevator'. --01:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC)81.140.76.57 (talk)

The inventor of the elevator, being an African-American, called it an elevator. If some tip top ruddy cheeky bloke from England decided to call it a "lift" and it caught on elsewhere for some unfathomable reason, I think that's beneath the concern of this article. Cheers, like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.116.179 (talk) 02:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The inventor of the elevator was not African-American. 76.167.156.93 (talk) 18:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant. There are many inventions where the inventor's name for it never caught on. --81.140.76.57 (talk) 01:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Why do Brits insists on using their spelling with every word...Here it is... Elavator is the most common term with natual english speaker as America and Canada with a total Pop of around 340 million say that, UK,Australia,NZ and the other ones do not make up near that amount. More i importantly, an AMERICAN invented it so we should let him decide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.181.241 (talk) 07:27, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

So why don't we let for example the Chinese name the fireworks for every one else? Or how about the Danes name the telephone their way? Or let the French make the name up for eveyone in the case of the hot balloon? No, the country where the invention was made is compleatly irrelevant with the name of the object. It is the language that matters (British English, for those that do not know, comes from England) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.9.136.121 (talk) 00:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

British but I prefer elevator over lift. Lift is used more as an everyday word whereas elevator is used in formal documents and signs for example. Also every British person knows that a lift is also called an elevator but there are some Americans who don't know this. It also seems that the inventor of the modern elevator was American and he used the name elevator. Leave the article name as it is but editors should feel free to use whichever term they wish while editing the article as only a moron would get confused - of course don't go reverting someone else's use of the word 'lift' or 'elevator' and replacing it with your prefered word.--217.203.144.11 (talk) 21:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Skylobby history incorrect

According to the article:

The former World Trade Center's twin towers were the first supertall buildings to use skylobbies, located on the 44th and 78th floors of each tower.

This is incorrect and seems to be an ongoing falsehood. The first installation of a skylobby elevator system was actually for the John Hancock Center (Chicago, IL) which was completed well prior to the World Trade Center. This is confirmed on the Otis Elevator Company site.

--Rkrause 00:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I've fixed this by removing the reference to being the first towers to use skylobbies from the image caption. Graham87 02:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I've also fixed it in sky lobby and World Trade Center; also see talk:Sky lobby. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Graham87 (talk • contribs) 05:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Is an inventor's race really relevant?

The article states: "In October 11, 1887 Alexander Miles, an African American inventor, patented a method". Is the fact that he was African American really relevant? Davez621 16:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I would say not! --Esun 20:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I dont think so too--Pasbeat 05:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Number of major elevator companies

How many major elevator companies exist today? --84.61.77.164 13:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

-- Otis(unitec), Schlinder Elevator Group, Kone Elevator/Escalators, ThyssenKrupp Elevator, Mitsubishi Elevator, Fujitec Lifts.

The Elevator consultant article

The Elevator consultant article is almost 2 years old and has no sources, although it has been spam-bait off and on for various consulting firms. I became familiar with it doing some spam cleanup. Can some of the elevator-knowledgeable editors that maintain the main Elevator article take a look at this one? Perhaps it should be merged into this or another article or maybe it can be improved as a standalone article. Thanks! --A. B. ^(talk) 02:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

could you please let me know world top ten elevator manufacturer as s serial basis —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.18.231.11 (talk) 17:48, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Safety

Is there any statistics which distinguishes between: Persons Injured per km traveled vs Persons trapped inside per km traveled.

Compared to car or aeroplane? Arnero 06:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

What about the accident of an elevator in the Hospital de Bellvitge, Barcelona (Spain)? On May 21st, 1989, one elevator of that hospital fell from the 7th floor down to the bottom, killing seven people who were inside it. The technicians determined a piece was broken, probably a bolt that subjected the cables, then the safety braking system didn't work as it was supposed, letting the cab fall at 70 Km/h and crash. A witness who heard the crashing told it was like a bomb.

Photo request

I've seen a belt elevator in a parking garage before, and they are nifty. It would be cool to have a picture in the article. -- Beland 17:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The correct date of Otis' presentation of his safety device is 1854, not 53. In 1853 he just founded the company. This is also reported in Otis' own publications. (Printed ones, on some local sections of Otis' homepage it is also incorrect, e. g. Austria)

Furthermore the safety device presented in 1854 is not similar to the ones used today at all. It didn't use an overspeed governor so it didn't stop an overspeeding elevator - the device simply arrested the car to the toothed guide rail in case the cable would brake. (In fact Otis didn't invent what he presented - the same device was in use in European mines for several years.)

The "first elevator" installed to the Haughwout building is claimed by Otis to be the first passenger elevator. Magazines from that time don't mention this elevator at all - it was Otis competitor Mr. Otis Tufts, who installed an elevator called the "vertical railway" to the 5th avenue hotel in manhattan back in 1859. This elevator was mentioned in the newspapers (e. g. Harper's monthly magazine Vol. LXIV, dated december 1882 writing on the history of the elevator)while Otis' name wasn't mentioned at all. In the beginning of the industry Otis was not that famous and known - in 1855 people would have thought Tufts could become whaz Otis today is.

I have read a comment (not seen actual documentation from the time) that the elevator in the Haughwout was removed after a few years due to lack of public acceptance (Andreas Bernard - Die Geschichte des Fahrstuhls, Fischer, Germany - a dissertation)

I have read lots of historical writings and I'm sure that what people believe to be the history of the elevator is more or less influenced by today's market leader - the Otis Elevator Company. People tend to copy previous writings - a scientific analysis needs to be done. (A very good start has been made by Lee E. Gray's history of the passenger elevator in the 19th century. - that would require additional analysis of the significant european contributions and would need to be continued to the present.)

Jan - Germany (sorry for bad English)

Copyvio Problems

I'm unable to determine who contributed it, but the following sentence read very strangely to me:

This apparent simplicity belies a complex and sophisticated mechanical, electrical and microelectronic system.

A quick Google search reveals that it was quite probably taken from this PDF.

It seems astronomically improbable that this exact combination of words would be strung together by chance, although it is possible that the other site copied Wikipedia. However, even if that is the case, I still find the wording of that sentence to be inconsistent with the tone Wikipedia takes. Therefore, I have removed the sentence. Fogster (talk) 00:27, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

This page's second paragraph is a verbatim copy of the paragraph in question. I find it more likely that this site has copied Wikipedia than vice versa, but wanted to mention it here for sake of completeness. Fogster (talk) 00:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

size

What are the dimensions of a normal elevator —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.17.229.64 (talk) 01:56, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

How long is a piece of string? Also, see the talk page guidelines. _TalkIslander 10:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Moving Wall

I could not see any reference to 'Moving Wall' elevators. These were common on Continental Europe (although not recently in the UK) and only have doors on the outside, from the inside of the car you can see the wall (containing all the doors) move. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.233.63 (talk) 18:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Use the New Yorker's April 2008 Elevator article!

There's a nice article in The New Yorker about the history and construction of elevators (circling around the story of Nicholas White who was trapped in one for 41 hours). It might have some good info for this article. See:

Paumgarten, Nick. "Up and Then Down: The lives of elevators." The New Yorker April 21, 2008.

— Catherine\^talk 17:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Just read it and it's excellent. Remember, the New Yorker owes its prestige partly to its old-fashioned habit of employing "fact checkers" to go through the articles. What you read in the New Yorker has had to pass muster, the way facts in a University Press book have to.Profhum (talk) 11:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The Dakota's elevators-- any information?

I'm surprised that the New Yorker story missed the most notorious elevators in New York: those of the historic Dakota building, famous from Rosemary's Baby, where John Lennon, Lauren Bacall, Leonard Bernstein and others lived. (And where Lennon died.) I can't afford the place but from 1977-81 I worked for a movie producer who lived there. The ancient hydraulic elevators were, building lore had it, the originals, designed by Stanford White, and were protected. I ask you experts-- could that have been true? You heard water leaking and running constantly when you were in the one on the Park side. When you got in water cascaded on the cab top. And slow? I would walk up the flights of stairs rather than stand for long minutes in the small dark well beneath the stairs, waiting, pent up with a miserable Yoko Ono, desperate for some privacy. Profhum (talk) 11:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Dumbwaiter needs its own article

While dumbwaiters are a kind of elevator, they are more different than they are similar to other elevators discussed in this article. E.g., these sections don't apply to dumbwaiters: "Elevator safety", "Passenger service", "Entrapment", "Types of elevator hoist mechanisms", "Controlling elevators", etc. The two are quite different beasts.

The article needs expansion and qualification -- with more material that generally doesn't apply to other elevators -- another reason for a separate article. ASME A17.1 may be relevant, but for quite recent new construction. A friend's house in the US (not a Victorian) had a dumbwaiter. It hadn't passed inspection in decades -- if ever -- and also -- unsurprisingly -- children played on it -- if it was slightly bigger, they would have done it all the time! (Contrary to what the article says about "passengers never being allowed".) The speculation about the use in fiction as a metaphorical division between "upstairs" and "downstairs" seems Original Research. Dumbwaiters have very practical purposes -- which are to avoid hand-carrying heavy, full hot dishes up stairs! and to avoid breakage. It's a effective use of space, compared to a staircase for that purpose.

(They can also be used as a "speaking tube" to tell communicate with people at the other end what's needed.)

Since 4/5ths of this article references features that are not used in dumbwaiters, and since the dumbwaiter article would need a fair amount of qualification and expansion itself -- much of which doesn't apply to the broader technical workings of other elevators -- a different article would be more convenient and readable. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 10:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea. I have a suggestion, since you know so much about dumbwaiters why don't you make that article? Just a suggestion... TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 15:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, good. 'Twill be done, unless there are other objections. I just found better references than I was hoping for, including a legal case describing complaints about running a dumbwaiter in 1916. There's considerable text, and vis-a-vis above comments, they're unrelated to other kinds of elevators. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 19:53, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Go for it, and I'm sure others will be aware of the article and help you with it. I can't object anything you just pointed out, I mean you're so right. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 19:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

You know what? It looks very good, I personally like it. Dumbwaiters also looks like an interesting subject, might watch the page one day, but not now. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 06:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I was trying, to some degree, to match the tone of this Elevator article. An interesting thing I learned in the writing process was that Zelda Fitzgerald was killed in a fire that came through a dumbwaiter shaft. Then I started reconsidering the dumbwaiter codes emphasizing "fire doors" and "fire walls". You're right, there's more to this subject, but at least for that, the best person might be a combination fireman and historian. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 12:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Added relevant template, alerting other editors and other readers to existence of this discussion; see also Dumbwaiter (elevator). --NYScholar (talk) 23:01, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Template added

[....Added talkheader, which says same thing.] --NYScholar (talk) 22:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC)]

Sociology of elevators

Elevators are the subject of a lot of sociological comment (notably by comedians), particularly regarding the phenomenon whereby people tend to stand silently and look directly towards the doors when they are standing in an elevator. If ever I get bored one day I might do a bit of research to see if there have been any academic papers published on this, or I might include references to elevators by comedians. The elevator paradox would fit nicely into a section on elevators and society, as would comments on the increasing trend towards elevators rather than stairs for equity reasons. 58.165.128.6 (talk) 09:53, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Republic of China?

Country	Number of elevators installed
Italy	850,000
USA	700,000
Republic of China	610,000

Isn't it supposed to be the People's Republic of China? Because Taiwan doesn't have that number of elevators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fondestgreetings (talk • contribs) 04:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

corrected. Голубое сало/Blue Salo (talk) 22:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Elevator accidents

This list contained only recent elevator accidents, none of them particular noteworthy (either one dead victim, sometimes not even that). One could surely include elevator accidents, but they most be noteworthy, and one should also avoid a list that is biased towards more recent accidents. Голубое сало/Blue Salo (talk) 22:42, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Agree. Noteworthy might be an accident that embodied a pervasive design fault, and which was responsible for design changes. Or an accident that changed the way the public perceived elevator risk. Or which prompted legislation. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 17:12, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

There's an infamous epitaph that reads: "Here lies John Doe. He looked up the shaft to see if the elevator was coming. It was." WHPratt (talk) 17:39, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Elevator vs. Freight lift requirements

After performing some research, it seems to be difficult to find information that accurately outlines requirements for determining whether you have a freight lift, or require the certification and annual inspection of an elevator (In the US). After numerous discussions with construction contractors, inspectors and material handindling companies, it seems that all is required is: A sign mentioning that no passengers are allowed and no controls on the inside of the car.

Can someone please clarify and support with documentation? TP 1940 7Jan09 (TX) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.251.64.215 (talk) 01:49, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below and WP:ENGVAR. Dekimasuよ! 13:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

---

• Elevator → Lift (transport) — Elevator is (as stated in the article) a north American term, not used elsewhere in the world. Hence it should be changed to Lift as this is . --81.140.76.57 (talk) 01:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

The majority of English speakers being in North America, no move. Grsz¹¹_Review 23:28, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• "...The term used by the majority of English speaking countries." This is not how issues of differences are normally decided. See WP:ENGVAR for tips. — AjaxSmack 01:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose this name is not disambiguated 76.66.196.229 (talk) 06:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose all such moves, per WP:ENGVAR. Leave well enough alone, and create a redirect. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose The name is fine, unless you want to rename it to plungebox. I would be cool with that.--Anna Frodesiak (talk) 15:45, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose. For the reasons above, but also the word elevator is highly distinctive, whereas the word lift has many different common meanings, and would be constantly confused with other kinds of lifting. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 17:03, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Agricultural elevators

OK, I'm English. This article describes what I'd call a lift. An elevator is what would be used on a farm to raise sacks/straw/etc to a higher level from the ground. Is there an article on Wikipedia covering these as linking to this article would be misleading. Mjroots (talk) 17:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

• grain elevator IMHO that's a more specific title describing your agricultural vehicle. If elevator is not what you are used to looking for, there are disambiguation pages provided for that. :-) The term is also used for a vertical control surface on aircraft that only ring a bell to aviators. For most other people....status quo. :) Regards, Petershen1984 (talk) 16:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Machine-room less elevator

I added this section because it is a fairly new concept. Any suggestions? Petershen1984 (talk) 11:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Seems somewhat irrelavant, with all the facts going in, but I'm not an expert on elevators. 69.136.72.16 (talk) 22:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Knizia elevators

Are there any Knizia elevators in Germany? --88.77.234.198 (talk) 20:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Inclinator Luxor Las Vegas

The guest rooms are situated on the outer walls of the pyramid and are reached by riding in so-called "inclinators" that travel along the inner surface of the pyramid at a 39-degree angle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_Las_Vegas

Wikipedia editors have given us a way to use the word inclinator. I suggest we remove this sentence, 'Although people refer to this "inclined elevator" as an inclinator, this is incorrect.'

I believe we should replace it with, 'The guest rooms are situated on the outer walls of the pyramid and are reached by riding in so-called "inclinators" that travel along the inner surface of the pyramid at a 39-degree angle.' --Sponsion (talk) 01:08, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

A related idea would be the cars in the St Louis Arch —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.125.188.65 (talk) 17:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Confusable elevator companies

Are there any elevator companies which can be confused with board game designers? --84.61.167.221 (talk) 22:35, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Are there any elevator companies which can be confused with street vehicle manufacturers? --84.62.199.19 (talk) 22:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Point Of View

In many ways this article is among the most "encyclopedic" that I've read on WP. It does suffer, however, from a slight industry point of view with some puffery words that do not add any information. It could do with a good edit from someone outside the industry. Some examples are:

"a vertical transport vehicle that efficiently moves people" - efficient is not defined. Is that kj/m/kg or people/floor/second. How does that compare to stairs (less energy efficient than stairs)? In terms of time efficient they are less efficient in terms of total people per hour than ramps as used in sports stadiums. Perhaps the word quickly would be best. This word is puffery.

"Machine Room-less elevators have become a welcome alternative to the older hydraulic elevator for low to medium rise buildings." - A better choice of words, if there is a citation and depending on the facts, might be, "rapidly adopted," "adopted in several resent notable building," or "lauded in a recent publication."

"For all practical purposes, there are no cases of elevators simply free-falling and killing the passengers inside; of the 20 to 30 elevator-related deaths each year, most of them are maintenance-related - for example, technicians leaning too far into the shaft or getting caught between moving parts,[8] and most of the rest are attributed to easily avoidable accidents, such as people stepping blindly through doors that open into empty shafts or being strangled by scarves caught in the doors" - Besides the cases that contradict this on this discussion page, "easily avoidable accidents" is just papering over some basic design flaws. These are pure PR words from an industry and do not belong in a WP article.

Please, to be credible scrub your language of puffery and corporate PR speak. It has no place in a WP article and degrades the high quality of the rest of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.125.188.65 (talk) 18:23, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

London Underground photo caption

"[...] The lift on the right shows its doors on either side of the car to serve different floors." Now, I'm not entirely familiar with each and every lift on the tube, but most of them (in the 'small footprint' stations, where they are the primary movers and aren't merely a substitute for stairways/escalators for wheelchairs/etc) serve just two levels, i.e. street level and the underground (or elevated, especially on the DLR) platform level. And in these cases, the reason for the doors at each end is to open the 'exit' and let arriving passengers flow out of the 'back' before opening the 'entrance' to let departing passengers in at the 'front'. Meaning a smoother transition, and no barging of one flow of travellers against another. The exit end is often (though not necessarily) the same at both served levels, backed up by signage/barrier configurations creating 'pedestrian one-way systems', so there's an agreeably fair FIFO/LILO system of conveyance.

So. Having noticed this when jumping here randomly, how about a rewording? "The lift on the right shows doors at each end, opened sequentially to allow egress of arrivals before the ingress of departees."..? Or "...of those arriving at the floor, before the ingress of those intending to depart.", if you prefer it a bit longer? (Assignment of Arrival/Departure is arguable, but I think I've gotten in the most understood way round. :) 195.137.54.23 (talk) 16:30, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

automotive lift

I feel like "automotive lift" should have it's own page. I don't know how to use wikipedia. groping in the dark here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.238.211.169 (talk) 03:24, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

elevator diagram

For an excellent public domain diagram of how an elevator works, see page 27 of the January 1921 issue of Popular Science. Kaldari (talk) 01:09, 7 March 2010 (UTC)