Talk:Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor

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Title succession in infobox

What's with the successions in the infobox:

King of Germany; Archduke of Austria
Reign 	1519–1556
Predecessor 	Maximilian I
Successor 	Ferdinand I
King of Castile and Aragon
Reign 	1516–1556
Predecessor 	Joanna
Successor 	Philip II
Duke of Burgundy etc.
Reign 	1506–1556
Predecessor 	Philip IV
Successor 	Philip V

The are several problems with that:

1. Charles was succeeded in Austria by Ferdinand in the early twenties, as King of Germany in 1531.
2. Charles was not preceded in Castile or Aragon by his mother Joanna - they ruled jointly until her death in 1555.
3. It is confusing to use different numerals for the Burgundian succession - readers may not be awara that the Philip V of one box is the Philip II of another.

I know it is difficult to bring all these successions into one fold ... but do we need such successions in the infobox at all? Str1977 ^(talk) 07:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

1. I've edited the infobox accordingly.
2. Charles was indeed preceded in Castile and Aragon by his mother as a sole ruler. She "reigned" with her husband until he died, then she "reigned" alone until her regent died, and then Charles became her co-ruler. Surtsicna (talk) 09:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

1. Only that didn't help at all, since you turned it into Charles being HRE 1519-1521 which is of course nonsense. I dropped the rather inconsequential rule over Austria and focused on "HRE/King of the Romans".

2. Joanna did not precede Charles in Aragon at all and nowhere in any effective manner.

Str1977 ^(talk) 06:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

"Joanna did not precede Charles in Aragon at all and nowhere in any effective manner." Is this supposed to convince me that you are right? I explained why I think that Charles was preceded by Joanna and your response is "No, she didn't"? Wow, that's a really good arguement. Surtsicna (talk) 18:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Joanna became Queen of Castile on her mother's death, she became Queen of Aragaon at her father's death. Her father's death also constitutes the coming to the throne of Charles in both countries. Joanna never effectively or solely reigned anything, but at best she came to the throne of Aragaon simultanously with her son. Str1977 ^(talk) 11:24, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Inclusion of Cornelius Agrippa

I was just wondering if any of you considered it relevant to this article to add the mention that the famed 14th century occultist and philosopher, Cornelius Agrippa was one of his councillors. DYBoulet talk 19:21, 13 October 2008 (AST)

Must have been quite an old geezer then. --OhNoPeedyPeebles (talk) 08:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

The language he spoke.

What languange did Charles V spoke? was it Old High German, Old Castilian or perhaps Flemish (given his birth in Ghent? --Oren neu dag (talk) 15:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

His "mother-tongues" seem to have been French and Flemish, as he grew up there and French was the language of the court. Spanish (Castilian) he learnt only after the Castilian cortes had demanded this from him (on his first trip to Spain, aged seventeen he knew no Spanish). He would presumably have learnt Latin (I am not sure in this respect). There is a nice anectote: he is supposed to have said that German (he meant Flemish, he did not speak "hochdeutsch") one speaks with the horses, French with the ladies and Castilian with God! Unfortunately I don't have the relevant books at hand. Buchraeumer (talk) 14:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The most quoted form is Spanish to God, Italian to men, French to women, and German to his horse. I've no idea if it's a real quote, though. I've never heard that he could not speak Hochdeutsch - I assume his Hochdeutsch wasn't especially good, but I would be surprised if an obviously multi-lingual native speaker of Flemish who ruled over Germany was unable to pick up enough German to be passable at it. john k (talk) 20:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

And of course, Old High German as well as Middle High German were no longer spoken by anybody at that time. Str1977 ^(talk) 17:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Unless some one provides a reference other than a link to answers.com the quote "[...]Spanish to God, Italian to men, French to women, and German to his horse." should not be mentioned here. Let aside the lack of relevance of this quote in the rather short section "Heritage and early life". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.42.128.144 (talk) 22:12, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it'd be "German" and French. Concepts like Flemish, Dutch, "Middle High German", etc, are later inventions [well, not Flemish maybe], and would have meant nothing to him. Not even sure "high German" and "low German" [the old name for northern German and Dutch] were concepts in this time (they weren't earlier), but someone can correct me if they were. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 22:37, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

The quote "Spanish to God, Italian to men, French to women, and German to his horse." was said by Charles V of France, not the Holy Roman Emperor.

"Incest" and "keep the blood "pure."" - exagerated, no ?

The article says: "... the family line's multiple years of incest, which was very common in royal families of that era and was practiced in order to keep the blood "pure.""

In most cases, this was not incest, except when it was first cousins (and even in this case, I would argue that "incest" is not the right word). It was never any other case of incest as listed on the Incest page. maybe "inbreeding" would be a better word ? "consanguinity" is also a candidate.

Also, the goal of such marriages had nothing to do with keeping blood "pure" (whatever that means...): it was mostly, I believe, for political reasons (preventing fiefs, kingdoms, etc. to be split; maintain alliances; etc.).

I think this should be corrected.

First cousin marriage is not incest, as far as I know. There were some uncle-niece marriages (as for instance Philip II's fourth marriage), which might qualify, but I agree that "inbreeding" would be better. john k (talk) 02:37, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Incest applies only to sexual relations/contact between relatives too closely related to marry, therefore there is no definitive point where something is or isn't incest since it varies by jurisdiction. In the case of the House of Austria, the marriages were permitted and therefore are not incestuous; the marriages were consanguineous. 142.68.80.29 (talk) 16:18, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Charles I, King of Castile, Aragon, Valencia, Majorca, Princep of Catalonia....Spain is a modern country

The first King of Spain was Felipe V (Philip V). Before 1707, Spain was not a country, there were two diferent crowns, Castile and Aragon, and the Crown of Aragon included the Kingdom of Aragon, Kingdom of Valencia, Kingdom of Majorca and Principality of Catalonia. I'm from Spain and I know about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dabilopez (talk • contribs) 23:26, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Then please take your soapbox back to Spain and leave this article alone. You are not the first to make a big fuss about this supposed "inaccuracy". Str1977 ^(talk) 17:09, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

The Crown of Aragon dissapeared in 1714 with the conquest of Catalonia, Spain as a country is born this year with Philip V.

There is a big confusion in most articles of Wikipedia between "Spain" as a geographical term and "Spain" as a country, that just is 3 centuries old.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.228.183.8 (talk) 17:27, 22 August 2010 (UTC)