Talk:Tomato

Not sure what to do, trying to fix a error on the page. Under cultivationit says China is the world leader in the production of tomato's and produces 25% of the worlds crop... The US tonage is 1/3 of China's but somehow Califorina grows 35% of the worlds crop? The math doesn't add up... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greglobe (talk • contribs) 01:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation?

The article as written claims that speakers in the Southeastern US pronounce "tomato" with the "ah" sound - as in the UK - and that other American speakers pronounce the word with the "ay" sound. I've lived in the Southeast my entire life and have never, ever heard another Southerner use the "ah" pronunciation (at least not ironically). The usual pronunciations you get around here are: "Tuh-MAY-tah," "MAY-ter," and "Tuh-MAY-ter," in roughly descending order of popularity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.210.71.103 (talk) 00:15, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

The edit summary for this edit by User:Dream Focus said "everyone down South says to-ma-to, as is proper, not just older generations". Prior to the edit, the article had only said that "older generations among" the South used that pronunciation. Over-generalisation, perhaps? I've never been in the south US, so please discuss it between yourselves. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 13:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I've heard that someone looking at the lyrics of a song found it didn't make any sense: " 'I say tomato and you say tomato'... What the hell does this mean?" Myles325a (talk) 05:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Smith?

Three times in early history and once under in Britain a Smith or Andrew F Smith is mentioned. Since he is also cited in each case why not just make the statements?--Weetoddid (talk) 09:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Production trends: contradictory data and broken ref

This is my first time commenting or editing here, I apologize if something is incorrect. Under Production Trends, the text says that Mexico is the largest producer, but the graphical chart shows China instead of Mexico. After going to the reference site, I believe the correct data for 2005 would be China as the largest producer. Mexico shows a substantially lower production at 2.24 million tons. I have made the change in the text on the page from Mexico to China. TonyHagale (talk) 17:55, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

The table shown under the above section of the article appears thus:

Top Tomato Producers — 2008 (million tons)
China	311.6
United States	111.0
Turkey	39.7
Egypt	47.6
India	87.6
World Total	125
Source: UN Food & Agriculture Organisation (FAO)

Maybe I'm missing something, but how can the largest producer, China, produce 311.6 million tons annually, and the total world production be less than half that, at 125 million tons? Unfortunately, the link in the reference in non-functional, so I am unable to verify. Clarification would be appreciated, and fix to the broken link would be great. --Yumegusa (talk) 07:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

This isn't the biggest problem - the cided source, FAOSTAT, doesn't even have the data for 2008. I dug the following table for 2007 up from FAOSTAT and will replace the one in the article, as it is uncited. Let's leave the old table here in case someone wants a quick review. So, this is the 2007 data from FAOSTAT:

Top Tomato Producers — 2007 (in tonnes)
China	33 645 000
United States	11 500 000
Turkey	9 919 673
India	8 585 800
Egypt	7 550 000
World Total	126 246 708
Source: UN Food & Agriculture Organisation (FAO)

Gasper.azman (talk) 13:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Sewage

I understand that tomato seeds pass undigested though the human gut, and so sewage plants are often surrounded by tomato plants. Anyone confirm? Danceswithzerglings (talk) 03:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Have you ever driven by a sewage treatment plant? Most of the "weeds" you see around those places are actually tomato plants.Brothernight (talk) 04:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

peeling and seeding the tomato

yes i am making salsa for the first time and am having trouble finding information on why or why not to seed and/or peel a tomato. any input would be great.Jondatsun (talk) 23:17, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a manual. However you seem to be new, so as a chef: seeds are not chewable, and are bitter. The skin is also difficult to chew and gets stuck in your teeth. For future questions, please see websites like Google or WikiHow, and/or our Reference Desk. → ROUX ₪ 23:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposed merger

I propose that most of the section "Types" be merged into List of tomato cultivars. --Bensin (talk) 21:56, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I second that. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 14:42, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Paella a tomato dish?

Since when has paella been known as a tomato dish? Vegetable paella may have it, but it's certainly not a traditional ingredient. Therefore the whole Iranian etymology section seems highly dubious to me, I'd suggest removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.176.121 (talk) 12:56, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Tomato is the 'Apple of Paradise'

In a number of European languages (Italian, Hungarian, Serbian, and I think the Austrian dialect) the word for 'tomato' is synonymous with 'paradise'. It would be interesting if the article could explain this unusual etymology.Nmcmurdo (talk) 01:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

In Britain

In existing section:

Tomatoes were not grown in England until the 1590s, according to Smith. One of the earliest cultivators was John Gerard, a barber-surgeon.[6] Gerard's Herbal, published in 1597 and largely plagiarized from continental sources[citation needed],

The citation required for the plagiarism claim is supported by information at the URL: http://www.controverscial.com/John%20Gerard.htm

"There is however a cloud of controversy surrounding the original contents of the Herbal. It is believed that Gerard may have used a translation of Stirpium historiae pemptades sex (1583) by the Flemish botanist Rembertus Dodoens." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan.x.jackson (talk • contribs) 14:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Tournefort vs. Miller

I thought Philip Miller provided the scientific name? He however used the Tournefort classifications at first, but later used the binomial nomenclature of Carolus Linnaeus. 95.209.84.250 (talk) 09:59, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed refactoring

It strikes me that this article has been growing somewhat 'organically' for some time—people sticking little additions in here and there. The result is somewhat incoherent. As such, I'd like to go through and 'refactor' it, just tidying things up and generally making it flow better. I can't say precisely what I intend to do yet (although as Bensin suggests above, the redundant 'Types' section will probably go), but if you object, speak now (or forever hold your peace). If no-one objects in about a week, I'll go for it. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 13:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, No-one's objected, so I'm going to go for it. I'll add the inuse template. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 15:19, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Error

When it is talking about "now Mexico city" it has an error. There is one missing comma that makes it sound odd. How do I correct it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.204.88 (talk) 03:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I've corrected it for you. Most Wikipedia articles you could just click "Edit" at the top and change them. This one has been protected (it was an obvious target for people messing around), so you can only edit if you've had an account for a little while. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 16:09, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Different person, those appear to be limes in the picture of the Indian Dish while the caption says lemons. Just a small thing I noticed. 67.243.20.72 (talk) 11:28, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Hard to tell, but looking at it closely, at least the one in the centre looks like it has a yellow rind. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 13:54, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Cultural use of the tomato!

A British lecturer at Unisa, Sally Hutchings, was deported after throwing a tomato at State President P W Botha to protest against curbs on the universities.

http://sites.google.com/site/tomatosaclub/home/itomatopw —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.246.55.22 (talk) 08:08, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

While this might be true, I don't think it's important enough to include in an article about tomatoes. See also WP:trivia. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 19:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. It does seem that in the popular imagination (at least in North America), the most desirable item to throw at a prisoner in the stocks - or by extension a corrupt politician or other unpopular public figure - was the rotten tomato. Is this some kind of Puritan inversion of the "golden apple"/"apple of Paradise" image? Heavenlyblue (talk) 20:25, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Plant safety

There is a contradiction in this section. First, the author says, "...green unripe fruit of the tomato plant...contain the poison solanine, which is toxic to humans and animals." But at the end of the paragraph, the author says, "The fresh fruit is, however, harmless." The problem in the wording is that green unripe fruit can also be considered fresh (assuming, of course, that it's not cooked, dried, or frozen), yet it cannot be both toxic and harmless. Perhaps the author meant to say that the RED RIPE fruit is harmless. I am suggesting that the words "fresh fruit" be changed to "ripe" or "red ripe." 188.248.255.253 (talk) 00:59, 26 March 2010 (UTC)Rick Glaser, March 26, 2010.

When I was checking the background on this, I found that in fact that section was rather out of date. Tomatoes are now known to contain tomatine, which is not as toxic as solanine. I've rewritten the section, with a couple more references. Hopefully it's clearer now. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 12:09, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there is a variety of tomato that stays green after it ripens. This variety is used to make "fried green tomatoes", not unripe tomatoes. According to Cornell University's Department of Animal Science, "Production of solanum-type glycoalkaloids is favored by the same conditions that promote the development of chlorophyll. Therefore, the concentration of these glycoalkaloids is highest in potato sprouts and green potato skins, and tomato vines and green tomatoes. Care should be taken to prevent the exposure of potatoes to sunlight. These alkaloids are not destroyed by cooking or drying at high temperatures. New potato varieties can not be introduced unless they contain less than 20 mg glycoalkaloids/100 g." Here is the URL to the cited warning posted by Cornell University: http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/steroid.html Brothernight (talk) 05:02, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

There certainly are varieties that stay green—see the Varieties section of the article. Searching for fried green tomatoes, however, the recipes that give any detail beyond 'green' do suggest that unripe tomatoes are used: [1], [2], [3], as does the Wikipedia article. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 09:40, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Suggesting a new first section, or 'lede' section

In my opinion, many readers who seek the tomato article will desire information about nutrition. Currently, nutrition information is in a sub-sub-section about mid-way through the article. First, we read about taxonyms, history and cultivation. I propose moving the nutrition info box to just below the plant/species info box. The first paragaphs would continue to inform about tomato in the sense "plant" while immediately after, moved and new paragraphs would inform on tomato in the sense "food." While I assume more people search for tomato-food than tomato-plant, I think the style of wikipedia is better followed by listing the taxonomy/ontogeny information right up front, then the information on utility immediately after. Heathhunnicutt (talk) 16:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that the first two sections do mostly cover it as a food (history, then cultivation and use), although perhaps the botanical language in the introduction could be trimmed a bit. As to nutrition specifically, I think it's better to keep the nutrition box with the nutrition section in the text. It could be reorganised to put that higher up, but starting with the history makes sense, at least to me. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 21:30, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Broken link

The link to Selecting, Storing, and Serving Ohio tomatoes is broken it should be http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/pdf/5532.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.207.206.178 (talk) 14:59, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, done. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 15:17, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Fruit, vegetable, or berry internationally

Should there be added that there is a certain confusion internationally, as in some countries fruits and vegetables are purely culinary terms? Having a separate word for the fruit for must of them the tomato, and many others are berries?Ivan2007 (talk) 22:12, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

A vegetable is a plant, part of a plant, or the edible portion of a plant. A fruit is the developed ovary of a plant or the edible developed ovary of a plant. Fruits are a subset of plants. Berries are a subset of both fruits and vegetables. So when someone says a tomato is a fruit not a vegetable it's like saying Lake Superior is not a body of water it's a lake. So a tomato is a vegetable and a fruit and a berry. People's insistence on it being a fruit not a vegetable is because it does not need to be pressure processed for home canning. As for other definitions of fruit or vegetable such as culinary there are no standard definitions. This controversy does not appear to have been applied to other fruits commonly referred to as vegetables (green beans, squash, cucumbers, eggplant, peppers, okra, corn, peas, etc).Weetoddid (talk) 23:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

It's odd that a heading would have a question mark: Fruit or Vegetable? The question defines the context- culinary. Therefore the answer is simple, it's a vegetable. Fruit has both a botanical and culinary usage whereas vegetable has only a culinary usage.Lashes1776 (talk) 16:08, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 188.220.72.27, 1 July 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

I believe the scientific name of the tomato is wrong. It should be Lycopersciom esculantum. please verify it. Thanks 188.220.72.27 (talk) 17:06, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

 Not done Your name gives 0 Google results, while the current one gives 1.1 million results CTJF83 chat 18:46, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I guess the IP user meant Lycopersicon esculentum, which was a widely used name. However, Solanum lycopersicon is now the accepted name. Please see the botanical classification section. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 22:51, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

The Tomato. Fruit Or Vegetable ?

Hello there is many concepts and arguments that the tomato is a fruit or if it is a vegetable. Some say That the tomato is a fruit because it has seeds. Other's say that the tomato is a vegteable because it isn't sweet and the majority of fruits are sweet.

The Tomato. Fruit Or Vegetable ?

Hello there is many concepts and arguments that the tomato is a fruit or if it is a vegetable. Some say That the tomato is a fruit because it has seeds. Other's say that the tomato is a vegteable because it isn't sweet and the majority of fruits are sweet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.174.250 (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC) Fruit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.152.202.162 (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

See Tomato#Fruit or vegetable?. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 11:03, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Shortages

Tomato shortages have occurred at different times for ~100 years and should probably be mentioned in this article. (It looks to me as if there is enough for a standalong tomato shortage article). Smartse (talk) 11:34, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Tomatoes are sweet

The first line of the article is incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.135.38.201 (talk) 17:33, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

They're savoury compared to other fruit like apples and bananas, and you generally eat them with savoury courses, not sweet ones. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

This is the only thing I can find regarding how they taste. Still it's better than no reference at all (at least I don't see any references in the first paragraph). http://www.bostonfoodandwhine.com/2008/06/26/what-does-a-tomato-taste-like/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.133.39.18 (talk) 14:52, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Google the phrase "tomatoes are savory" and you get 2 pages: "Page 2 of 20 results (0.05 seconds)" (changing the spelling to savoury adds another 17 results). Google the phrase "tomatoes are sweet": Page 55 of about 22,600 results (0.14 seconds). It's a little bit embarrassing that Wikipedia has something like this wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.185.108 (talk) 15:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

It's embarrasing that you rely on the number of Google results of a search without quotation marks to find out what certain fruits taste like. F. F. Fjodor (talk) 16:11, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

The quotation marks are right there. I just thought the Google search results would help to illustrate my point (I mean the ratio is 1:1000). I guess it's possible that all 22000 of those people are wrong. Leave the arbitrary, unreferenced, inexpert opinion there if that's what this site is about.

Don't want people eating tomato leaves

"as well as the plant (Solanum lycopersicum) which bears it." might be better phrased along the lines of "which can also refer to the plant" etc. Saying "X ... is an edible fruit as well as the plant" might lead some to think the plant is edible--assuming they don't read all the way through. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.152.238 (talk) 03:12, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it's a problem. The phrasing doesn't really suggest that the rest of the plant is edible, and it's very well known what part of a tomato plant you usually eat. If someone wants to try eating random plants, it's up to them to check, and it's easy to find warnings about toxicity both here and on the internet in general. (Out of interest, apparently a small amount of tomato leaves is not particularly dangerous. See [4]) Thomas Kluyver (talk) 11:23, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from DblazekNGB, 4 March 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} I am the Executive Director of the National Garden Bureau. We have selected 2011 as the Year of the Tomato. I'd like to supply a link to our website under the listing "tomato" on Wikipedia. http://www.ngb.org/year_of/index.cfm?YOID=16

DblazekNGB (talk) 18:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

 Not done: Absolutely not! Please read WikiPedia's policies on spam and conflict of interest. Reaper Eternal (talk) 01:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC)