Talk:Ezra Nawi

Neutral-source article

For future reference, here is a recent article from the New York Times about Nawi's activism and conviction: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/world/middleeast/28westbank.html. --ThorstenNY (talk) 20:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC) in source 8 which claims that "settlers" have tried to assasinate Mr. Nawi, yet there is no evidence of any such attempt to assasinate Mr. Nawi. The only mention of an attempt is found in this quote. "In the last few weeks, police intelligence agents have warned him on several occasions that the settlers intend to take him out. 'Whoever brings his head will be very highly regarded in the settlements,' says attorney Yael Barda, who helps the Palestinians in the region. " The lack of a real quote from police leads me to believe that the accusation is baseless. That Haartz would use a quote from Yael Barda which insinuates that the "settlers" are a bunch of thugs which honor people who murder "activists" is troubling. Perhaps it should be stated that Haartz is propaganda organ for the "palestinian" cause and people like Nawi. 173.11.124.141 (talk) 18:49, 28 February 2011 (UTC) wendysfriend

Sex and drugs convictions since 1992

Its interesting to note that Ezra Nawi's Hebrew Wikipedia page mentions the 1992 conviction for sodomy with a minor (who was a Palestinian Arab) etc (with a link to a transcript of the original court proceedings from the court website) but - up until now - the English version of the page does not (nor the Spanish). cckkab (talk) 10:59, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

RolandR Reverted 3 edits by Cckkab (talk): "The sources cited do not confirm this claim." Again, there is a link to a transcript of the original court proceedings from the court website, + a reference to a newspaper article (the well known Haaretz) + I could add many more articles supporting the evidence. Plus the information and references are carried on the Hebrew entry. So I'd consider RolandR undo as vandalism. cckkab (talk) 11:39, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

The Hebrew Wikipedia article does not link to any court transcript; it uses the same Hebrew Wikipedia article used here. This article makes no mention of any alleged conviction in 1992, it merely relates to Nawi's 2009 conviction for "assaulting a police officer". I will see if I can find the English version of this article in the Haaretz archive. Without a reliable source -- which we do not have -- this claim is totally unacceptable in a biography of a living person. RolandR (talk) 12:00, 30 July 2011 (UTC)}

I can get you transcripts. But your claim (in the comments) that Haaretz does support the conviction is patently false). Note that the 1992 sex conviction is noow front page news in Ireland because of a presidential candidate's amorous links to Ezra Nawi. You are not going to be able to go against the extensive evidence now across the world press.

The current interest in the underage sex case stems from the association of Ezra Nawi to Irish presidential hopeful, David Norris , with the association leading to several of David Norris’ campaigners resigning http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0730/1224301621244.html

Yes please! Any information about the case relating to the ongoing Irish attention would be a very valuable addition to the article. Clarifying the name would also be nice — David Norris' letter refers to him as Ezra Yizhak. Thanks! --CyHawk (talk) 18:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

The fact that this man is a convicted rapist should by mentioned! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14357589 --Zimmer79 (talk) 18:03, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Protected

The article has been protected on an old version for two weeks per a complaint at WP:AN3. Please discuss here the quality of the evidence of criminal violations that has recently been added to the article. We should not be relying on a Google translation from the Hebrew to get the details of a legal process correct. People who know Hebrew should be participating. Because this man appears well-known internationally, such information would be expected to also be published in English if it is actually true. Note that even now some of the reference links in the article don't work, like ref. 9 about the international campaign in his support. EdJohnston (talk) 13:37, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Ed Johnston notes above that footnote 9 is wrong. It looks as though the site has lapsed. The content is archived on the Wayback Machine; could an admin edit this footnote, to link to the archived page? Thanks RolandR (talk) 14:02, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

 Done Dabomb87 (talk) 15:21, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

In addition to the sources given above, we also have in English, evidence of his sex and drug-related convictions in the following:

Haaretz (Haaretz.com is one of the world's leading English-language Website for real-time news and analysis of Israel and the Middle East.): http://www.haaretz.com/news/leftist-jailed-for-1-month-for-assaulting-police-in-west-bank-1.5708 Nawi, who has prior convictions for sexually assaulting a minor, illegal use of weapons and drug offenses, has been active for Palestinian rights...

SHALOM LIFE: http://www.shalomlife.com/news/13374/west-bank-sexual-assaults-silenced--page2/ it was also revealed that Nawi is a convicted pedophile, having been convicted of sexually assaulting a Palestinian boy. '

Israel-academia-monitor.com - Hebrew University http://israel-academia-monitor.com/index.php?type=large_advic&advice_id=8056&page_data%5Bid%5D=173&cookie_lang=en “Nawi was convicted in 1992 for committing a sodomy act in a youth and for drug abuse.”

Ezra Nawi's claim to fame was that of a local rights activist, treated unjustly (which, while sad, does not make into an international figure at all). His past convictions are now figuring prominently in the news in Ireland because of his relationship with Irish presidential hopeful, David Norris. The Irish press takes Ezra Nawi's convictions in the 1990s as a given (with the best evidence of course on http://www.court.gov.il). Blogs are picking up now on the censoring out of this information from the Wikipedia English page on Ezra Nawi. cckkab (talk) 15:54, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I have searched for hours, and cannot find any contemporary report of the incident. The only detailed account I can find is in the talk page for the Hebrew Wikipedia article, where an editor states that Nawi was convicted of consensual sex with a 17.5 year old Palestinian youth, at a time when the heterosexual age of consent in Israel was 16, but the homosexual age of consent was 18; the ages were not equalised until 2000.[1] I'll try to find more about this; but, if true, many would see this not as a "sex crime", but as anti-gay discrimination. RolandR (talk) 18:48, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Were there convictions for sex and drugs offences, or there weren't? We are not talking about points of view. But facts. The convictions sex and drug offences started 19 years ago, to someone unknown at the time (the political agitation came 15 years later, after he split with Norris). The convications are in all the Irish press this weekend because of Nawi's amorous relationship with the leading presidential hopeful (and after the convictions). Again, the multiple Israeli sources (even outside of Hebrew) - see above (or on the Irish Gaelic version of the Nawi page) - seem reliable to me. (by the way, the Irish press says that the conviction in relation to the 1992 sodomy case was with a 15y old. Whatever, the law is the law).

RolandR's past Wikipedia history (and controversies) illustrate his interests in this and other matters. Let's see if the administrators can be less partial.

and the adminstrators might update the English page to show that the Nawi page in Irish and any other languages. cckkab (talk) 23:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 109.77.120.79, 30 July 2011

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

Mr Ezra Yizhak Nawi

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0730/breaking21.html convicted in Israel of comitting an indicent act on a minor in 1992 http://www.israpost.com/Community/articles/Pop_Show.php?articleID=28491 not mentioned in his page

http://www.haaretz.com/misc/comment-page/congrats-to-haaretz-for-correcting-its-previous-untruths-re-nawi-19.46352

a letter from Irish senator David Norris, current presidential hopeful pleading for clememncy on behalf of his ex lover Mr Ezra Yizhak Nawi that is now causing controversy in Ireland http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf

109.77.120.79 (talk) 23:49, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

The evidence of the convictions of the 1990s is clearly overwhelming. The refusal to update the page is inviting derision of Wikipedia in English. What is disturbing I find is how an obvious militant like RolandR's with past Wikipedia controversies can find an administrator to pander to his whims. This isn’t the first time. But RolandR didn’t choose a good battleground this time.

By the way, link No 6 to the website http://www.citizennawi.com/ does not work. This link supports the following 2 sentences “After meeting and dating Fuad Mussa, a Palestinian man, Nawi joined the Jewish-Arab human rights organization Ta'ayush”; and “”In 2007 a film about Nawi's life and work directed by Nissim Mossek and produced by Sharon Schaveet premiered at the Jerusalem Film Festival where it was received with a standing ovation and a Special Mention by the jury”.

RolandR, please remove your edits on my Wikipedia page (and I see you delete a good few comments from your own page).

cckkab (talk) 08:45, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit requests are responded to by admins who are not involved with the content of this page, so they need to be very specific as to what you want changed in the article. The various links and arguments made above do not tell me (an admin entirely unfamiliar with this person and his history) what exactly you want the article to say. Please update the request to include the exact text you want added or changed. Since the request appears to involve controversial material, I would then want to see some discussion demonstrating consensus favoring the request. Thanks. --RL0919 (talk) 06:29, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. If we can just

1. revert to the last version that I signed off on http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ezra_Nawi&oldid=442190878.

 Not done Protected edit requests are not a way to get an admin to assist you with edit warring. No way I'm going to wholesale revert to a version from the edit war. You'll need to request particular changes, and if they seem like they might be at all controversial, some additional talk page discussion will be required. I realize that is a tedious way to change an article, but this is what happens when editors choose to edit war. --RL0919 (talk) 15:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

2. After “which have landed Nawi in prison twice, in 1997 and 2006” we can add two additional sources http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf and http://www.independent.ie/national-news/plumber-nawi-became-an-ardent-campaigner-for-palestinian-rights-2836449.html

 Half done I can't put it exactly where you requested since that text doesn't exist in the article right now (per my decline of your first point above). Also, the first link is a scan of a primary source that I would want to see strong consensus for prior to adding to a BLP. However, the second link appears to be an appropriate news source that confirms points made in the current version of the article, so I have added it at a relevant spot. It could be placed to support other items as well, so feel free to request that it be added elsewhere if desired. --RL0919 (talk) 15:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

3. Also please remove source (footnote No 6) to the website http://www.citizennawi.com/ (it doesn’t work) and remove the sentences (charged views) that it is supposed to justify (see 2 paragraphs above).

 Not done Appears to be superseded by the archive url request below. --RL0919 (talk) 15:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

4. Change title of section “1992 conviction” to “Sex and drugs convictions”.

Not sure This request appears to be based on the assumption that the article as a whole would be reverted to the earlier version, which isn't being done. That said, I'm open to changing section header if there is consensus for it. (Which presumably requires getting more editors involved in this discussion.) --RL0919 (talk) 15:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

More generally this ought to be a very straightforward entry – this is just an ordinary guy who has some criminal convictions, later had some publicity for political activism, and is now in the limelight for an association with an Irish presidential hopeful. Nothing more. The article just needs known, certain facts and sources. Nothing more. As for user RolandR, he has a history of similar incidents on the Israeli and radical topics to his credit, possibly with accomplices. Some action here looks warranted, to help avoid further discredit on Wikipedia in English. Thanks for all. cckkab (talk) 08:12, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

The site citizennawi.com, referred to in footnote 6, is archived at the Wayback Machine. I will make a proper edit request for this change. If you want to make a complaint about my behaviour, this is not the place for it. Take it to the appropriate forum. RolandR (talk) 11:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}In footnote 6 a & b in the article, please replace the broken link with the archived version.[2] RolandR (talk) 11:06, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

RL0919 just did it for you. Nyttend (talk) 15:11, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't unlink that more quickly. I'm going through the other edit requests from earlier in the section, and it is taking longer than I expected. --RL0919 (talk) 15:23, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

No complaints; I figured that you'd forgotten, and there's no shame in that. Nyttend (talk) 15:26, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Replies to the various requests above. I would suggest that any future requests be put in new talk page sections so as not to make the threading of this section too confusing. --RL0919 (talk) 15:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Still no mention of Nawi's sex and drugs convictions since 1992

There is now no one disputing the facts, nor the sources. I suggested reverting to a version where the facts were clear, with suitable prominence. If administrators want to side with RolandR with a track record of controversy and banning, than I accept that verdict (24-hour editing bans by the way for people with an agenda and accomplices don’t seem to be adequate penalties). Our interest here should just be in getting the facts out with the best sources possible, as ever with Wikipedia. Instead accepting RolandR’s requests for protection is making an ass of Wikipedia for anybody looking up this topic. I've never edited before Israeli/gay/sex/ themes. I'm disappointed at the opposition to the facts and sources appearing here. But in due time, other good Wikipedians will doubtless get the facts out there, as they usually end up doing. cckkab (talk) 17:36, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Interesting rewriting of recent history: "accepting RolandR’s requests for protection is making an ass of Wikipedia" vs "RolandR, I am asking the administrators to protect the page". RolandR (talk) 18:11, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

There is an interesting twist to this saga (of no relevance to the edits though). I presume that those trying to prevent mention of Nawi’s criminal conviction do so as he has been latterly a pro-Palestinian militant. But the case about the 1992 rape was taken by a Palestinian family against someone they saw as an Israeli (and no obvious proof of militancy at the time), in a position of influence over the 15-year old (at the time). cckkab (talk) 17:48, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I am obviously not acceptable as a reliable source; but I remember Ezra Nawi as an activist from the late 1980s. The under-age sex case may relate to an incident in 1992, but the trial does not seem to have occurred until 1997, by which time Nawi's partner (who does not appear to have been a party to the case) would have been in his 20s. RolandR (talk) 18:15, 1 August 2011 (UTC)