Talk:Death and state funeral of Kim Jong Il

NPOV?

The article appears to begin with, and gives undue space to the theory that the Kim that died is not in fact the real Kim. It's cited to "an authority on Korea", but what are his credentials and how are those views accepted by other observers and pundits? --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 02:12, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

This article is another fine example of recentism on Wikipedia

Usual wikipedian logic, "hey it's in the news, there are lots of sources, therefore it needs it's own article". Er no. This article only exists because it is happening now and it easy to pull "reliable" news reports off the web. It must be noted that with the advent of WP, just about every famous person who now dies can have one of these "shrine pages". Ironically for those famous and historical (and potentially more worthy) figures that died before this internet era, that honor will be eternally lacking for them.

It is particularly galling that this article only exists because western sycophants seem to happy to applaud the man, a dictator who is responsible for killing millions of his fellow countrymen, who hypocritically gave his own family a western lifestyle while allowing his own people to starve to death eating grass, for the death camps that operated in his name, and still do et al.

This is all WP:Recentism in a weeks time he will be forgotten and the Wiki-fapping will stop. But now this article is here, will this little homage to a nasty man be removed. Of course not! In comparison maybe it's time we had more articles regarding Hitler and what he did for 1930s Germany. Well that's rhetorical because 1. positive articles would be deleted on POV grounds and 2. Hitler is history so therefore a v.cold topic.

All in all there is nothing notable about this mad, bad dictators death. If anyone really knew anything about Korean history, you would be aware that the more notable death was Kim Il-Sung because Kim Jung-Il was forced to step up to the plate whereas this period of change in NK government has already been mapped out. Hmm but no article on the death of the Great Leader....what an un-surprise there!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.75.60 (talk) 13:52, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Did you notice we have articles on particular sports matches? Exactly how is this less significant? And Kim Il-Sung didn't have nuclear weapons, but Kim Jong-Il did. And if he did kill millions of his own countrymen, then he's all the more notable, isn't he? Your own argument makes him notable. What, we should only cover good people or something? 76.65.128.198 (talk) 14:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I think this article should be summarized and incorporated into kim jong il´s page 200.55.135.211 (talk) 17:27, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Sources may be lagging in a big way on the topic of his death. However, if coverage does wind down and the death in itself doesn't seem meaningful enough for a stand-alone article, this could be taken to WP:AFD. Gwen Gale (talk) 23:39, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

International Reactions

What purpose does the international reactions serve. They pretty much all say the same thing. I came here from the main page and don't think this article should be linked from there in its current state. AIRcorn (talk) 01:07, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

This has been discussed time and time again, please read the deletion consensus of the 2011 Norway bombing article for the reason why it was kept. YuMaNuMa ^Contrib 02:10, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The trouble is they always get discussed right after the event happens when emotions are high. There is a lot of keep it because its there arguments in that discussion plus the circular we have other articles on reactions so lets keep this one. What is the encyclopaedic value of quoting every country that sends its condolences? What is the justification for having a longer international reactions section than details about his death? AIRcorn (talk) 02:34, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Aircorn to an extent. Countries like Vietnam, Venezuela, Belarus, Cuba, Nicaragua, and Mongolia say mostly the same thing: they express their condolences with the North Korean people and/or Kim Jong-Un. Those could all be put in a straight list, as in "Countries that expressed their condolences in letter or public announcement:"

Countries that express messages other than simple condolences might be singled out, as they are now (Sweden, South Korea, etc.). The message sent by Armenia is priceless. Boneyard90 (talk) 13:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about anyone else here, but I found it highly entertaining. Most especially was Bashar al-Assad of Syria: "...a great loss not only to the Korean people but to the people of all countries struggling for freedom, justice and peace... May his soul rest in peace." I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at that one. Afalbrig (talk) 06:15, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Kim Jong-il on August 24, 2011.jpg

Hi, can someone tweak the pop up on the image so that it gives some detail. Presently it just says "thumbtimee=" which isn't very helpful. I've just investigated the prospect of adding text to the description on Commons but the image is protected. If this is what's needed I wonder if someone could do it. Cheers Paul MacDermott (talk) 09:12, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

List of Funeral Committee members

Hi - I'm just checking to see whether I'm the only one who thinks the list of funeral committee members adds nothing to the article, and should be deleted. I think it's more than enough to mention that the committee is headed by Kim Jong-un and comprises many high ranking officials, and it's arbitrary to list the people there now given that there are 232 people on the committee. This list tells us absolutely nothing about the funeral. Also, in my opinion, the details of the funeral should be paraphrased instead of simply printing the entire statement from the funeral committee (via the Korean Central News Agency). I think these changes would greatly improve the readability and style of the "Funeral Service" section. Thoughts? Dawn Bard (talk) 02:02, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

What the funeral committee list does is it gives people clues about the pecking order in North Korea, something which is otherwise difficult to discern. See this article for instance: Clues from Kim Jong-il Funeral List. See also this BBC article which says "His name is first in the list of members of the 'national funeral committee' published by the main North Korean news agency, the KCNA - something observers say is a good guide to individual rankings in the Pyongyang power structure." Vale of Glamorgan (talk) 02:08, 23 December 2011 (UTC)