Talk:Ultraman (1966 TV series)

No Picture of Ultraman?!

How is there no picture of Ultraman on this page??

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Better storyline than the sentai shows?

No two Ultraman shows seems alike from my watching of the series, the show could be carried without help(lets not hope not). I think it should be noted that every Ultraman series differs from the other shows in the Japan because it lacks an everyplot thus making it similar to shows like the X-files and Star Trek rather than the stock Kaiju shows in Japan. Anyone else agree? Although Ultraman episodes end with him beating the monster, he does it in different ways. Sometimes they don't fight at all...sometimes the science patrol wins with minimal help from red and silver etc etc.

• I absolutely disagree... Original Ultraman is just a weekly monster-a-day show. I love the shows, but the originals are just same old every generation. Suredeath 13:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Questions:

1. What is a VTOL?
2. Ultraman Great @ Ultraman Towards the Future - is that @ correct?
3. What does the last sentence mean? How do more than one Ultraman appear?
4. Why was the original title of this article UltraSeven/Ultraman? What is UltraSeven? -- Zoe

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Is this the favorite hero of Shin-Chan, Shinosuke or whatever that anime child is called? -- Error

No it's not, Shin-chan's favorite hero is called Action Kamen -- Zaim

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Answers for Zoe from Joe Sewell, editor/author of The Ultra[man] FAQ:

1. VTOL stands for Vertical Take-Off and Landing. It refers to an aircraft that can lift off and land without a runway. The vehicle Hayata was in was called a Jet VTOL, often mispronounced "Jet Beetle" (since Japanese has no real "V" sound).
2. The @ is, indeed, not correct; my recent edit corrects this.
3. I suspect the comment about the last sentence refers to a previous version, but just in case it's still not clear ... Series in Japan tend not to be renewed, as they are in the United States of America, but get sequel series. For example, Dragon Ball Z is a sequel series to the original Dragon Ball. The various Ultra-series were, for the most part, sequels to their predecessor(s).
4. Ultraseven is the second "Ultra-brother" to appear. The series of the same name was the sequel to Ultraman. Neither Ultraman nor Hayata appeared in Ultraseven, although both appeared in later series. Perhaps I should create a list of all the different series and/or Ultras in each one? (Oh, there can be more than one Ultra around, too; each one is a separate individual.)

Joe Sewell 16:22, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I actually played as an extra in Ultraman Millenium Live Show in Bangkok and I got some pictures, of which one has 2 actors wearing Ultraman suites, I made the pictures so the copyright lies with me. I want to upload them, do you think it will be a problem? (as the show was organized by the Thai company in a legal battle with the Japanese company)Waerth 09:35, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm relatively new here, so I probably should let one of the "experts" handle this, but as I understand it, you might be better off uploading those pictures to a more private area, such as one of the Yahoo! Groups that deal with Ultraman. --Joe Sewell 21:00, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

No complaints were heard on the Dutch wiki where I put the picture on my personal page, so I just go for it. Waerth 08:26, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

I type corrected, then. Go for it! --Joe Sewell 13:29, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

Removing picture

Can the anon in the 61 range please stop removing the picture on this page?? thx. Waerth 12:37, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The picture of Ultraseven and Ultramother should be deleted, since this article belongs more to the original Ultraman series than to the whole franchise. We've got the Ultra Series article now. Black Condor 19:58, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Remove most of the "dispute" section

April 4, 2005, I'm concerned that I may get into an EDIT war with someone very passionate for Tsuburaya. A bunch of info was added that was mostly speculation.

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Actually, as of this writing (8/4/2005), the section is as fair, balanced and truthful as it gets. Whoever edited it put it much more eloquently than I could.  :)

Personally, I am very passionate for Tsuburaya. Chaiyo is a bunch of con-artists. The article seen on the Thai newspaper THE NATION (about Sompote Saengdeunchai's "court victory" and Tsuburaya's subsequently facing "financial difficulties") was a big lie, and it has gone too far.

FYI, as for the part where Sompote and his son Pirasith could go to jail for 5 years if they lose, it came from this article (which explains his side of the story):

http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/magazine/life/0,8782,185619,00.html

And remember, this is the same guy who asked Toei for permission to do a Kamen Rider movie. When Toei refused, Chaiyo did it anyway: Hanuman and the 5 Riders. I guess Toei knew better . . .

Ryuuseipro

Too much detail?

I see someone added tons of detail about the original Ultraman. Should we keep it, move it to a new Ultra-specific page, or what? (If the latter, we probably should flesh out the other Ultra-warriors' stories, too.)

I tried to change some of the wording to indicate this isn't the only Ultraman around. --Joe Sewell 16:58, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

I notice there are links to all the other Ultraman series, which causes me to think we should have separate pages. Perhaps the individual who provided all the detail from the first series would like to move it to a new page, named "Ultraman (original)" or something like that? --Joe Sewell 01:32, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The article was way too heavy with details (re: Monster names, explanations, etc.) this is a simple article for basic information, not an actual guidebook, or show bible. Most of the information can be found on fansites all over the web. I edited it down to make it more streamline, and easier to wade through. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.245.31.108 (talk) 01:07, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't amputate, transplant instead

Imagine if I were to recall that on some episode Ultraman sprayed a monster with water and came here to find out which one. What would it benefit me to know that Ultraman had a water spraying capability with mention of against whom it was used? Fans are going to be the reader of this article. Episodes and monsters are exactly what is called for. They will want this sort of information. You can't realistically link to some fanbook and say Ultraman can spray water, for details, see elsewhere. This is an encyclopedia and encyclo- means all encompassing. I recognize your good faith intention to keep this article wieldy, but simply cutting out the concrete details is not the way to improve an article like this. It would become useless to fans and non-fans will not read this article anyway. Try condensing verbose statements, repeated and redundant mentions of the same detail, without deleting the relevant details entirely. Or, if you find this article too big, move the details to a new, more focused article or articles, perhaps the separate article List of Ultraman Episodes, and List of Ultraman powers. If you need help creating your first article, read Wikipedia:Your first article or let me or someone else know. That is the valid way to handle unwieldy articles; transplantation, not amputation.μηδείς (talk) 13:20, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem I see is that the material is unsourced. But then so is the rest of the article, as are almost all articles in the Japanese sci-fi genres. There are dozens of books on these series & films in Japanese, and a few have been written in English lately also. I've got quite a lot of old Japanese material on this genre, but have avoided working on these articles because they seem to be "owned" by editor(s) who will zealously enforce editor-made spelling/formatting nonsense while leaving the articles... unsourced. You are correct though, I believe, that when an article gets too detailed, we should break that detail off to a separate article. Unfortunately, again, I've seen stand-alone articles on subjects related to Ultraman be created and then deleted. Again, they could be sourced easily, but this Inclusion/Deletion nonsense makes it just an irritating game. And encyclopedia should be as encyclopedic as its materials allow. To intentionally do less, and to delete good work other have done, is censorship. Dekkappai (talk) 14:15, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Not all material requires third party citations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_write_a_plot_summary#Citationsμηδείς (talk) 18:49, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I think that's one of the most irresponsible guidelines in all the nonsensical editor-written WP rules & regulations. It openly mandates original research, it encourages sneaky, difficult to find vandalism, and it is simply lazy. If any one of the unsourced, over-detailed sections at this article were rightly broken off to a stand-alone, it would be deleted for lack of sourcing. Just shows the shoddiness of the thinking behind this guideline-- and it's significant that those claiming to be "Deletionist" often support it. Dekkappai (talk) 15:32, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The concrete details were not cut away. The names of the abilities (Japanese and English) were kept, as were the descriptions of how they worked. That is all that is needed in a list of powers and abilities. Specific, detailed examples, monsters the powers were used against, ways they were counteracted, etc, do not belong there. Otherwise you have mounds of expositional text that just turns into an unreadable mess. While fans of the show may be the primary readers of this article, it still has to be accessable to the general public. I like the suggestion of a detailed episode/monster/power article, but that is a job for someone else to tackle.Enelsonian (talk) 19:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)Enelsonian

So, Dekkappai, can you let us know what you really think on the issue? :D

That a work of fiction itself should be a proper source for its own plot details is reasonable. It is not like there is no reference, the work of fiction is itself the most authoritative reference. You still have to specify the episode or chapter. The material is subject to verification by reference to the work. No one is prevented from checking the facts for himself if he likes. I actually had to rent and watch Blue Velvet to confirm some plot details for the article. It was, admittedly, quite unpleasant. (I have always loved Isabella Rossellini, but the movie is pretentious and its supposedly shocking material is actually quite laughable, as is the interaction between Dern and MacLaughlin.) But I was able to obtain what I needed. Not all works have plot summaries available, and the work itself is always they highest authority even when they do exist. And commentary and analysis still require secondary sources. Perhaps people will make things up, and they can always invent references or attribute to real references claims which they do not actually make, but, in the end, that is always dealt with in the same way, by the oversight of other editors. No mere rule can prevent malfeasance without vigilant human oversight.μηδείς (talk) 18:49, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Reading throught this article, as it was 2 days ago was a chore. There were too many instances of bad grammar, shift in tense, and way, way too much information crammed into it. I'm sure the person who added the info on the monsters, and examples of Ultraman's usage of various powers wanted to help by finding and posting the information, but this article is not the place. If a person wants to know What Ultraman can do, they can look at a list of abilities, and a brief description, if they want more they should be directed to a different section (as suggested above), they shouldn't have to wade through paragraph after paragraph of monster names and examples of how he used the ability and how it was counteracted, etc. Simply put, the article was too fat, and needed a lot of trimming to make it more readable, and at the same time retain the basic information needed. If the person who supplied the monsters and information would like to set up a seperate entry (an episode/monster/power guide) then they should, as that is where most of this information belongs. And for those who are crying censorship, I suggest you re-examine the definition of the word before you start throwing it around willy-nilly in discussion. Enelsonian (talk) 19:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)Enelsonian

I encourage you to address any instances of bad grammar and poor style. But according to the policy on plot summaries we are either required to state in which episode an event occurs, or to provide a citation from a secondary source. A list of powers without either verifiable and notable secondary references or references to the plot violates the policy on citations of fictional works. "For consolidated articles discussing a work published or broadcast in a serial form, a citation to the individual episode is appropriate to help readers to verify the summary." Monsters in Ultraman episodes are notable by definition (monstrum monstrare means to show) and providing the name of the monster against whom a power is used serves the necessary end of identifying the episode. Deleting these references, rather than perhaps converting them into chart form, is simply unacceptable. If you do not provide a specific reference for each power then you cannot delete references to the specific plots.

You are right that censorship is the improper word for your actions. The proper word is vandalism.μηδείς (talk) 20:38, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Here's a suggestion then, Get off your high horse, stop restoring a poorly written article and create a table or chart or section that goes into more detail. All of that information does not need to be there. Period. And nice try with the vandalism accusation. Vandalism is what was cleaned up a few days ago (check article history). Editing down unneeded information is not vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enelsonian (talk • contribs) 21:49, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Please maintain civility. I am not required to edit at your command. Good faith edits are not vandalism. But removing references to specific episodes after you have been reminded that policy on fiction articles requires that plot elements be identified amounts to vandalism. You are the one who wants to delete. Rather than keep doing the same old illegitimate deletion, try a more focused deletion that leaves in references that identify the episode to readers. Otherwise we will simply have to delete the list of powers as unreferenced.μηδείς (talk) 22:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

And what you are requesting will make this article read as if it was written by a Junior High Student with no training in formal writing. This article as it is now, is, to be be generous, amateurish at best, at worst absolute trash. There is too much information to make this easy to read, or understandable except by the most ardent fanboy. The items I removed were, for the most part, names of monsters, and plot points, which again, have no place in a list of powers. The simple fact is stated on the heading that these powers were demonstrated in the tv series itself, should stand as source of reference that is all encompassing. Your ability to spout quaint phrases, give reminders to remain civil, and cry vandalism is quite good, but it seems your ability to remain objective, and see the whole picture regarding the horrible state of this article, and the need for severe editing is quite lacking. If you can't see that this article needs work, then you are being purposely obtuse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enelsonian (talk • contribs) 22:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Maintain civility and assume good faith. I have nowhere said that the article is ideal, and I agree entirely that there is plenty of poor writing. The problem is that when one mentions such things as the ability to shoot water one either has reference it, either to a secondary source or to the episode itself. Something like this is fine: "Ultraman has the ability to spray water, called "Ultra-Shower". In My Home is Earth he used it to attack the mutated human monster Jamila, killing him." That is superior to a lot of poor prose. But if we remove any reference to the episode in which the ability is used it has to then have a formal ref from a notable source. This is all very simple. In the meantime, we simply cannot remove relevant and notable material wholesale with repeated reversions of same wholsale deletion. As I said,if you have the time and desire, try doing the edit without deleting references to episodes or the monsters they featured.μηδείς (talk) 23:08, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Kirby/Ultraman question

Dear author: On your Ultraman page, it mentioned that one of the episodes of Kirby Right Back at Ya' had a reference to Ultraman in it. Which episode (name/number) was it? Can you give me some detail on what happened in this episode? Thanks. ---Solara

Issues with Godzilla?

I noticed that some contributors cut out much of the parts that explain Godzilla in them (BTW, these were my contributions).

I don't exactly know why people have issues with my mentioning Godzilla in this Ultraman article. I'm thinking maybe because he doesn't "fit in" the superhero agenda (especially since the original Ultraman is, first and foremost, a science fiction series, not just a superhero show). Maybe I'm telling people what they don't want to hear - the truth.

Then you're going to find that Godzilla will get quite a bit of mention in the Ultraman article, becuase his (and other Toho tokusatsu) influence to the original series (and perhaps the entire Ultra Series) cannot be denied. For several reasons, which I intend to include in the article:

• He and Ultraman were created by Japan's FX wizard Eiji Tsuburaya (this was already covered in the article).
• He inspired the many maurauding monsters on the show, just like in Ultra Q. (In fact, like said show, some people in Japan call Ultraman a "giant monster show", which it essentially is!)
• Like in Ultra Q, he made an appearance on the show (as another monster).
• He and Ultraman are the two greatest tokusatsu icons in and out of Japan, especially in America. (And besides, how many people in the US even know about Kamen Rider, Japan's other greatest superhero, and not confuse him with Ultraman?)

I am in no way trying to push Godzilla on Ultraman fans. I am a very big fan of both Godzilla and Ultraman (not to mention Eiji Tsuburaya). It cannot hurt to do an analysis of Godzilla's influence on the creation and being of Ultraman (and it's been done many times by Japanese fans also). You could be doing the same thing by comparing this show (as well as Ultra Q and Ultra Seven) to shows by Gerry Anderson, which were also an influence to this show (which is evident, as Eiji was a big fan of his shows).

What do you think?

Ryuuseipro

I'd have to go back through the history to see just how much got cut, but it's pretty obvious that this page is slowly mutating to something beyond a description of the entire genre. I agree that Godzilla is an important influence, especially in the USA, but I'm not sure now how it would fit in. I would suggest omitting the part about Godzilla "making an appearance on the show." --Joe Sewell 16:18, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Should we move many of the info to Ultra series page

I think that some of the introduction, the ultra phenomenon, and whole legal dispute section should be move to the ultra series page in my opinion. This should be about the first Ultraman, not the the whole series... which we do have an article on.

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Okinawan Background

Should information on the Okinawan ties of Ultraman be tied into this page? Or somewhere else?

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Ultraman monsters

I'm the guy who keeps adding heaping portions of detail on the original Ultraman over the past few months (since about December 2005), and as time permits, I continue to flesh out individual monsters and the episode plots each was a part of. I hope that's okay with the "keeper" of this page; I'm not sure if that person is Joe Sewell, who I see has numerous entries in the discussion section. Bottom line, I do not mind if these entries are eventually incorporated into the Ultraman page instead of remaining separate. I just figured the Ultraman page itself was getting kind of overloaded (and that's partly my fault as well, for adding several entries on Ultraman's powers.) - MattBattison

5/22/06: I realize that someone else here is also going to the trouble of describing some of these monsters. That's great, in terms of cutting down my work and still achieving the objective of being informative about Ultraman monsters. I would just ask that whomever is erasing my descriptions completely, sometimes replacing them (Gomora), sometimes not (Hidora), please consider incorporating what I have written along with any information like the "stats." A detailed description of the plot for Gomora was blown away in favor of a completely different account of it, and many of the details were lost. Where I come from, that's not editing. The two accounts could have been merged to flesh out more details overall. I did the same in some pre-existing descriptions for other Ultraman monsters; where someone else's description was sufficient, I either added to it (Z-ton) or left it completely alone (Baltan). At least the Gomora description is on the mark. My description of Hidora was simply deleted.

I have also noticed "flags" on other entries I have made for monsters (such as Dorako) suggesting that I incorporate the information into the Ultraman page. If the "keeper" of all things Ultraman on Wikipedia wishes to do so, I have no objection. I will not do it myself, partly out of respect to those who constructed the Ultraman page in the first place, and partly out of my newness to the system and etiquette. I wouldn't want to presume how they would like the information (re-)organized, while still presented in its entirety.

I have also received a flag on my Bullton entry to "wikify" the monster description. Again, I'm not a battle-tested veteran of Wikipedia, but I believe I have followed the instructions. My entry may not have all the bells and whistles that the Baltan and Bemular entries have -- I do not own the rights to pictures of any of these monsters -- but it remains functional. By all means, if there's something missing from the structure of this entry, please respond here in specifics, and I will do what I can.

I have read the rules, and parroted existing structure as a primer for learning the system, but if someone wants to contribute pointers or work further on what i have contributed that's fine with me -- hopefully they do so without completely destroying information I have provided. - MattBattison

6/14/06: I think I'm done helping out. Paging through to see what's happened lately, I noticed that descriptions I left for Aboras and Bullton have been linked in a vicious circle back to the Ultraman page, instead of to the information I wrote. I could understand if it linked to better substantiated info, but the current set-up is a disservice to everybody. I have also been asked to document/cite sources my entry for Banila. I watched the video and took notes. That's about as direct a form of documentation as I can provide, but I realize that may not be what Wikipedia expects. Oh well. I guess some badly translated Japanese account of the episode will be cited sometime later, and that will have to suffice. Siyonara. - MattBattison

Have you thought to even try and confront the person doing so? Or, as I would suggest, making a single "Ultra Kaiju" article? -- Majin Gojira 18:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, MattBattison. I noticed the absurd situation in re the Ultramonsters on this page just the other day. Click on any one of them and you are redirected back to this same page. This is clearly wrong. I see now that you had individual articles for each of the monsters. I think this is fine. Or, as Majin Gojira suggests, one Ultra-monster article with some sort of table/description/image (if we dare) on each of them. Either way would work, but the present re-redirecting situation certainly does not work. Most of the redirects were done without justification, I notice one says "not notable." I would question that. And if these monster characters are determined to be not notable, certainly a group "Ultra kaiju" would still be justified. -- Rizzleboffin 18:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I jumped the gun and already started to work on one, though my knowledge is very limited, it's little more than an incomplete list of Ultraman monsters - Majin Gojira 15:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

7/31/06: My thanks to Majin Gojira and Rizzleboffin for your points. This is the first time in a long time that I visited to see what's happening. I do not know who destroyed the monster descriptions, but since the damage hasn't continued, I'll try to get back to reconstructing them. If a reasonably good explanation is put up already, I won't quibble on the details. As always, I am completely open to this info being pasted into the Ultra Series or Kaiju pages. - MattBattison

A lot (all?) of the monster links redirect back to the Ultraman page... Not exactly useful! 84.68.159.186 21:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Ultraman Shadow

Ever heard of Ultraman Shadow?He is the evil ultraman zearth.67.175.138.202 02:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah... on the ultraman zearth's page.Suredeath 11:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Seo Taiji Album/Song Ultraman

Seo Taiji (a huge korean rockstar) has an album with a song called Ultramania which deals with Ultraman. I don't know if it should be mentioned here though... a link to translated lyrics are: http://taijimania.org/english/html/album6.htm#7 85.8.13.99 22:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Who is Zoffy?

I see several references to "Zoffy" in the article but there is no explanation or link of who he is.

In answer to your question, Zoffy appears in the original Ultraman television series, though he is not identified as such. He was Ultraman's mentor, and he rescues Ultraman after his battle with Zetton (Z-ton). Some sources, although I cannot confirm them, have claimed he is a relative, possibly Ultraman's big brother, cousin, or uncle. He is very similar in appearance to Ultraman, but has a series of rivet-like bumps in a U-shape across his chest. MattBattison 13:15, 11 July 2007

The references you mention are plentiful; they come often from "background story" provided unofficially by Tsuburaya Productions or some of their employees, though some of the manga stories claim to include some of the back-story as well. Whether they're considered canonical or not is up to the individual. --Joe Sewell (talk) 16:37, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ultraman logo.jpg

Image:Ultraman logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 16:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Arashi in the US

I believe the notation that Arashi was called "Iyoshi Ishii" in the US is incorrect. The actor may have been called that, but the character's name was rendered Arashi, even in the US. (This is from memory, though, so I cannot provide citations to "prove" it.) --Joe Sewell (talk) 16:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The original Ultraman show in the U.S.

I heard that this show was brought to the U.S. during the time the 1960s Batman television series went on the air, but never did succeed well enough to have several its successors brought outside of Japan until one or two others like Ultraman Tiga came over. I looked in this article and don't see any information about the show's runs outside of Japan, should this article include information about the U.S. version or not? Parrothead1983 (talk) 03:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Are you talking about this version of the show http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068145/fullcredits#cast with no japanese people in it?It should get a mention I think as well. 66.189.38.183 (talk)

image

This article definitely deserves a good fair use image. I have taken a screenshot I think is especially illustrative since it shows Ultraman in the context of a fight with a monster amid buildings to demonstrate scale. I think the picture would actually serve as a much better main image than the current logo, but am adding it lower in the text to ask for comments before replacing the current one. μηδείς (talk) 00:55, 20 April 2011 (UTC)