Talk:Jews

To discuss the infobox in the top right corner of the article, please visit Template talk:Infobox Jews.

Judaism is a religion not an ethinic group

A person can convert to Judaism even if they would not be considered Jewish by race. The definition is far too ambiguous in that case Also I see no proof that Jewish is an Ethnicity anymore than saying that a person of pure Spanish decent could not be considered white. This page should treat Judaism as a religion not an ethnic group Pug6666 01:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pug6666 (talk • contribs)

Please see the "Ethnoreligious group" article. Hertz1888 (talk) 02:18, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Pug, you have just unwittingly stumbled across one of the origins of the Israeli-Palestinians conflict. There is no right answer to this question - people can believe what they like. This question was debated extensively amongst the Jewish community worldwide in the 19th and early 20th century. See for example Timeline of Anti-Zionism. Oncenawhile (talk) 07:50, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Jews are an ethnicity and a religion, to be one you don't have to be the other. That's how you get many people who say they are Jewish and Atheistic at the same time! It means they see themselves as Jews by ethnicity but as non-Jews by religion. Jews meet all the requirements to qualify as an ethnic group, which include common identity and history. Saying that Jews are "just a religion" is a common lie among modern anti-Semites! This page talks about Jews as an ethnic group, if you want the history of the religion you can go to Judaism. 90.196.60.197 (talk) 08:06, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

90.196.60.197—I doubt if there are many examples of people who "see themselves as…non-Jews by religion."[1] I think it would be rare for any person who is otherwise Jewish to articulate that he/she is not Jewish by religion. That is simply not language that is used. More likely the sort of person that I think you may have in mind would say that they were "nonobservant" or "secular" or "not religious". They would probably not be saying that they were "non-Jews by religion". I don't think that is language in actual use. Bus stop (talk) 11:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

It's a tough argument: that by adopting a particular philosophy one's DNA magically changes. I expect that in an encyclopedia an editor should go to extreme lengths to ensure such claims are very well documented, otherwise this is merely reposting of religious nonsense which has no place here or, if included, it should be very clear this is fable and not fact. Lexlex (白痴美國) (talk) 12:36, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Denying that Jews are an ethnicity is a common anti-Semitic tactic meant to de-legitimize Israel. I'm an atheist Jew. But if Jews cannot be an ethnicity, then what am I? A nothing? Ashkenazis are not related to Germans or Slavs. Why do you think we look different? Why do we have Semitic features? Curly hair? Big noses? Red hair? King David had red hair. Why do we get Tay–Sachs disease but Europeans don't? Why have DNA tests confirmed that we are from the Middle East? How come when I had my DNA checked, the conclusion was that my ancestors were part of the second great migration out of Africa and passed through Middle East and settled in Italy, even though I have no family history from Italy? This confirms the story that Jews were expelled from Israel by the Romans and brought to Rome as slaves. Jews are descended from the ancient Israelites who founded the Kingdom of Judah and thus we are an ethnic group. There have been only minimal conversions into Judaism. But even that should make a difference because no ethnic group is "racially pure," especially those of Europe and Asia. There are constantly outsiders marrying into different ethnicities. Even though you're Chinese, I bet you have some Mongolian, Korean, or Japanese blood in you from hundreds of years ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lauriacts (talk • contribs) 23:13, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

My great-grandparents came from Russia to the United States. But they were not Russian. They didn't even speak Russian; they spoke Yiddish. My family doesn't look Russian; they look Jewish. So if you tell me we're ethnically Russian instead of Jewish, then that's just bullshit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lauriacts (talk • contribs) 23:24, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Lauriacts please read WP:NPA before you post again. Please remember this is not a forum and not a place for WP:PROPAGANDA. Please re-read the previous posts and try to answer the concern of the original poster: "This page should treat Judaism as a religion not an ethnic group." And remember: It's just this page we're talking about. Lexlex (白痴美國) (talk) 11:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Lexlex—Lauriacts seems to be following the precedent set by you in discussing "DNA". The original poster doesn't inquire about "DNA" specifically. Bus stop (talk) 15:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Good point. I think I assumed "ethnic group" was being used in a strict scientific sense, but it wasn't made clear by the OP and, per Ethnoreligious group, that term can be interpreted in many different ways. Lexlex (白痴美國) (talk) 16:36, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Why are you accusing him of posting propaganda, Lexlex? It looks like the person posting propaganda is you. "It's a tough argument: that by adopting a particular philosophy one's DNA magically changes. I expect that in an encyclopedia an editor should go to extreme lengths to ensure such claims are very well documented, otherwise this is merely reposting of religious nonsense which has no place here or, if included, it should be very clear this is fable and not fact. Lexlex (白痴美國) (talk) 12:36, 11 May 2013 (UTC)" -- That post clearly shows your anti-Jewish bias. Are such people allowed to post racist nonsense on talk pages? I was under the impression that racist comments were automatically removed. Judea29jd9 (talk) 20:53, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Bible

Since when is Bible any trusworthy source for the Wikipedia? Please consider revising the article to quote trusted historical sources only. --Normis99 (talk) 08:27, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree about the fact the bible is not a trustworthy source! After all, how can you believe a source saying the world was made 5000 years ago? I do think that bible can be used, though only with a scientific source near it confirming or contrasting it. For example "bible said X, but archeological sources said Y". 90.196.60.197 (talk) 10:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Demographics box

The demographics box seems messed up. Unless the total Jewish population is around 308,479,532, then I doubt the United States has only 1.71% of the Jewish Population. Probably that reference tag that messed it up. I don't have an account so I can't fix it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.112.127.74 (talk) 23:46, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Just a misreading. There's nothing to be fixed. The table indicates that the Jewish population of the U.S. is 1.71% of the total population of the U.S. (about 308 million). Likewise with the Jewish population of each other country as a percentage of that country's total population. Hertz1888 (talk) 02:29, 13 May 2013 (UTC)