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Reverted to revision 642214821 by TenOfAllTrades (talk): WP:NOTAFORUM The existence of winter does not disprove climate change. (TW)
Mitigation section: I've added a few extra lines on the emissions reductions necessary to meet 2 degrees C (see global warming#Mitigation)
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: [[User:Enescot|Enescot]] ([[User talk:Enescot|talk]]) 09:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
: [[User:Enescot|Enescot]] ([[User talk:Enescot|talk]]) 09:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a few extra lines on the emissions reductions necessary to meet 2 degrees C (see [[global warming#Mitigation]]). I've also made some other changes to the mitigation section as well. [[User:Enescot|Enescot]] ([[User talk:Enescot|talk]]) 07:49, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2014 ==
== Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2014 ==

Revision as of 07:49, 21 January 2015

Template:Vital article

Featured articleClimate change is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 21, 2006.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 28, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
May 17, 2006Featured article candidatePromoted
May 4, 2007Featured article reviewKept
Current status: Featured article

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2014

This sentence: "Without the Earth's atmosphere, the temperature across almost the entire surface of the Earth would be below freezing." under greenhouse gasses is not supported by the citation, or the citations of the citation. All citations say is that the average temperature of earth would be below freezing. It could be true that the nearly the entire surface of the Earth would be below freezing, but that's not supported by the citations. Therefore to accurately reflect the citation the sentence should read something like: "Without the Earth's atmosphere, the Earth's average temperature would be well below the freezing temperature of water."[1][2] Also, the citation would be better off using the sources of the national geographic article instead of the article itself. I included them as references for my proposed change.


Cicero agricola (talk) 05:19, 19 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done Stickee (talk) 00:25, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mitigation section

I think that Global warming#Mitigation should be revised. In my opinion, the mitigation section is fairly good at present, but I think that there is some unnecessary overlap with Global warming#Political discussion. The mitigation section discusses low GHG stabilization targets, while the politics section discusses limiting global warming to 2 degrees C. I think that these two topics are similar and should be collated in one section. Enescot (talk) 08:29, 30 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've had another idea about revising information on the 2 °C target:
1. In this article, information on progress towards 2 °C is collated and briefly summarized in global warming#Mitigation. Readers can be referred to climate change mitigation#Temperature targets for more information.
2. My draft summary on 1.5 / 2 °C for this article is below:
Near- and long-term trends in the global energy system are inconsistent with limiting global warming at below 1.5 or 2 °C, relative to pre-industrial levels (link to climate change mitigation#Temperature targets) (IPCC AR5 WG3: Chapter 6 p418; Technical summary, Table TS.1, p54). Pledges made as part of the Cancún agreements are broadly consistent with having a likely chance (66 to 100% probability) of limiting global warming (in the 21st century) at below 3 °C, relative to pre-industrial levels (IPCC AR5 WG3 Summary for Policymakers p12).
References: IPCC AR5 WG3 Fifth Assessment Report - Mitigation of Climate Change
Enescot (talk) 09:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a few extra lines on the emissions reductions necessary to meet 2 degrees C (see global warming#Mitigation). I've also made some other changes to the mitigation section as well. Enescot (talk) 07:49, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2014

Replacing oil! 1 December 2014 http://jonsthings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/replacing-oil.html Burning oil does molecular nuclear fusion: 1 CmHn+pO2+T->n/2He+mCO2+L+Xray+E12 p=m L= light 2 CmHn+pO2->n/2H2O+mCO2-E2 There is no chemical source of either helium, visible light or X rays. We also note that oxidising carbon fuels takes in energy. There is a more efficient way he to do molecular nuclear fusion. Fire up a steam plasma 3 H2O+T->He+O+L+Xray+E23 T= turbulence More about this later! In the present boil cycle, the amount of molecular nuclear fusion we do give her arms on local turbulence and carefully structures. Injecting the combustion products in a turbulent fashion, increases the energy output of the system. Titanium plating the boiler plate and Nimonic turbine blades we use doubles the power output of the system. During the annual shutdown, and applying a fake titanium plate will halve at oil or gas burn. To produce the same power outputs. So as taught to me at Sheffield University in 1983. Nuclear power this in dread of somebody noticing a conventionally five power station already does nuclear fusion. I was taught this, and my metallurgy master’s degree! Nice, simple and quick to applied. To be honest evaluating a steam plasma tube is the weekend’s work. We take a 1mx2cm glass tube, and an external source of steam. Like a paint stripper. We charge to the tumour up to two atmospheres. Then we strike up the steam plasma. We do get nuclear fusion: 4 2H++T ->He2++E24 E4= nearly the relativistic conversion of a whole hydrogen ion. We also get the more energetic hydrogen fission 5 H++e- ->n0 6 H++r n0->E25+L+Xray We also see the weekly exothermic fission of oxygen ions. And later, the fissioning of helium ions 7 16O2-+s n0->16H++18e-+E6 A hydrogen plasma is 20 times as exothermic. There will melt all the engineering plant we years! We prefer a steam plasma. Lightning demonstrates a 2m steam plasma will liberate a constant 11.6 MW. A running a steam engine only produces 2.4 MW per fire tube, as a combustion products pass through the tubes. They are still reach a service engineer 3000° C. And do not melt choose the presence of liquid water around them. The service of a lightning bolt reaches 10,000,000° C, as it does molecular nuclear fusion! Faithfully that is very localised heat. So people have survived being struck by a lightening down strike. 10x2m steam plasma tubes will happily run 100 MW power station continuously. From regular water. None of the endothermic oxidation of overpriced fossil fuels. A steam plasma tube looks to be eight times as exothermic as hyper toxic uranium fission tube. And generates no toxic radioactive waste. Fission tubes are 24 times as exothermic as fossil fuel burning. So a steam plasma tube is 192 times as exothermic as a 2m row of gas or oil burners. We need to submerge only 10 such tubes in a water boiler, to replace the burning of all fossil fuels. Ideally done during the annual shutdown. When there station fires up again, it will consume a minuscule trace of regular water. And burn no fossil fuels! So producing no carbon dioxide. But the extra 0.0004% carbon dioxide emitted by every day and by burning the fossil fuels, has just served to increase plant and animal life on earth. There is still a preindustrial two parts per million carbon dioxide in the global air. By 12.10pm every afternoon, we are back in to only 2ppm carbon dioxide in the global air. Photosynthesis is a major life support system on land and seas. Man is cities and towns are too minuscule an area to have any global significance at all. Nature has not even noticed that mankind has evolved. The dinosaurs had the earth for 650 million years. Mankind from he is the earliest hominids, has only been on earth for 5000! A static trace gas affects nothing. Which is why all science work on man made global warming stopped 2003. Hopefully nobody ever thought up manmade climate change was her thing other than biological nonsense from nuclear power! For the educated reporters are still writing copy on man made climate change. They need to go and get our high school education! Carbon dioxide levels are static. But now we can do nuclear fusion of hydrogen fission on earth. Direct access to the Energy System of the universe. Stars shine tutor hydrogen fission! The nuclear fusion only produces the heavier atomic masses endothermically. And this science was all worked out at the start of the industrial revolution. When mankind first use the steam cycle to generate electricity. He has stumbles across molecular nuclear fusion. Hydrogen fission is a more energetic and cleaner Energy System. It produces non other hyper toxic radioactive waste of uranium fission. It uses regular water. All the hydrogen produced by the electrolysis of it. Hydrogen fission produces no solid waste at all! The cleanest energy there is. My thanks to the PH D supervisor at Sheffield University who are medically started we are researching molecular nuclear fusion. In 2001. He ended my PH D, as he realise I could totally fix the phantom science of man made global warming. Hydrogen fission is a better Energy System.

Jonathan Thomason JonThm9@aol.com


This user has to be a SOCK puppet for scibaby-none of that is related or even close to global warming much less science. Someone please bann this guy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Armchairphysicist (talkcontribs) 16:48, 2 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

78.144.150.28 (talk) 13:51, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources - Not a blog - to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 13:59, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Featured Article With a Lead Like this?

I will not --at this instance --go into detail, but raise your hand if you think this lead failed WP:LEAD. Does a LEAD need to contain statements from reports? Does it need detailed stats about every year? I would be shocked if someone disagreed.--Inayity (talk) 04:08, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your interest. Earlier this year there was a ton of discussion on the lead, and we worked hard and long on the first paragraph. I think consensus was reached. While anyone could have posted it at that point, I had sort of taken on a self-appointed clerical role and the reason I never posted it either is that I was hoping/intending we'd keep working on paragraph 2. But then I got busy, and I guess everyone else did too. The consensus draft for the first paragraph was posted to the article by me today in this edit. The final thread in the series of discussion (with pointers to the earlier installments) is archived at Talk:Global_warming/Archive_70#Proposed new paragraph 1 (NAEG Ver 6). NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 06:51, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just a wild read but is all of this detail needed? Is this a summary by any definition?:Possible responses to global warming include mitigation by emissions reduction, adaptation to its effects, building systems resilient to its effects, and possible future climate engineering. Most countries are parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC),[17] whose ultimate objective is to prevent dangerous anthropogenic climate change.[18] Parties to the UNFCCC have adopted a range of policies designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions[19][20][21][22] and to assist in adaptation to global warming.[19][22][23][24] Parties to the UNFCCC have agreed that deep cuts in emissions are required,[25] and that future global warming should be limited to below 2.0 °C (3.6 °F) relative to the pre-industrial level.[25][c] Reports published in 2011 by the United Nations Environment Programme[27] and the International Energy Agency[28] suggest that efforts as of the early 21st century to reduce emissions may be inadequate to meet the UNFCCC's 2 °C target.--Inayity (talk) 07:00, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The bold is hard to read, and the brevity obfuscates whatever proposal you have in mind but have not stated. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 07:01, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Clunky text: In its fourth assessment (AR4 2007) of the relevant scientific literature, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reported that For the lead it is enough to be brief and say Scientist say BTW I have copy and pasted this into a readability checker do you want to know the results? DIY and see. --Inayity (talk) 07:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Scientific Journal or Encyclopedic entry?

On a related matter, I am not sure editors here realize references are not needed to this extent in a properly written lead WP:LEADCITE, because the lead is supposed to be a mirror of the article which contains the necessary references. When you have 3 and 4 references in a bulky verbose lead it does not help people read it. So just like someone said they cannot read bold text, very few can read the lead and get a summary of the issues, it reads like a scientific convention paper, not an encyclopedic entry.--Inayity (talk) 07:55, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The paragraph you cited, WP:LEADCITE, says in part "The necessity for citations in a lead should be determined on a case-by-case basis by editorial consensus. Complex, current, or controversial subjects may require many citations; others, few or none." You're new here, right? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 08:54, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to use Newness as some kind of defense for this nonsense let me give you a headsup, do not bother with it. I did not reply to your other comment b.c i found them of no use to this discussion. So, NO I am not new HERE, where Here is Wikipedia. And WP:LEAD is something I know a Great deal about! Case by case, where is the editorial consensus for the excessive laborious references? Why not at 10 more just to make the point? ref are more needed around CONTROVERSIAL disputable material. Can you review the LEAD by reading it and tell me is all of that information controversial? --Inayity (talk) 09:00, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So I guess this is either complex, or controversial, is that why it needs 4 ref? Parties to the UNFCCC have adopted a range of policies designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions[19][20][21][22] --Inayity (talk) 09:07, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Option A - Thump and holler
Option B - Work to restart the process
Which will more effectively yield results while complying with WP:ARBCC#Principles?
There are several ideas in those threads with more substance than generalized indictment.
One thing you will find in those threads is a broad agreement that the lead has accumulated a lot of stuff since FA status was granted, and everyone who spoke agreed it needs work. And we did a ton of work and got thru paragraph 1. How about drafting a proposed second paragraph and posting it here? Or you can insult this bit of the remaining accumulation and that bit of the remaining accumulation, but that doesn't seem very effective to me. Your mileage may vary. As for your specific example of accumulated stuff, no I don't suppose that needs 4 refs.
NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 09:16, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't checked the details (sorry) but I agree that part / most of the reason for the ridiculous numbers of citations in the lede was to beat back the bozos. If the bozos are gone, then the cites can and should be pruned William M. Connolley (talk) 12:11, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On an even more contentious topic we ended up with grouping cites together to avoid the [3][4][5][6][7] effect, best to prune cites to a couple while making sure that useful cites are used somewhere in the body text rather than cluttering up the lead. . dave souza, talk 12:53, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with both of you, but go further to agree with Inayity - before worrying about lead cites maybe we should work more on the lead text? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 13:20, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And, assuming that "bozos" don't read much, a somewhat shorter lead might be more effective. Just saying, Grandma (talk) 14:12, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Commonspeech and terms Global warming and Climate change in first sentence

Agree with both, we could try working without cites or perhaps best put drafts in a talk page section. For starters, why "Global warming and climate change are both used to refer the..."? Suggest "Global warming is the observed century-scale rise in the average temperature of the Earth's climate system, the current climate change with its related effects." . . . dave souza, talk 14:23, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Dave, I agree. In my recent change of this sentence I was just trying to accommodate a seeming wish to have climate change in there. If it was taken out, and yet somehow linked via a footnote or something, then that would, in my opinion, be even better. Grandma (talk) 14:34, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see that the use of the term climate change already appears in the italic preamble. Noting that, can we just take it out of the first sentence proper? Grandma (talk) 14:45, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Dave, oppposed to dropping the COMMONSPEECH use of "climate change" in sentence 1 for reasons stated in the three archived threads and abundant additional archived debate elsewhere over the scope of this article viz-a-viz should we gut this article to focus in laser beam fashion on the narrow TECHSPEAK meaning of the term (rising global surface temps), and purge all discussion of greenhouse gas, policy, feedbacks, social impacts.... The consensus, of which I thought you were a supporting part, was to keep the article scope as it has always been and to add the COMMONSPEECH equivalent terms in the opening sentence. Did I not understand your prior views, Dave? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 14:52, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, understood, we should live with it (given everything else). Grandma (talk) 14:56, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hope lives! Thanks, I look forward to cleaning up the rest of the lead together. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 14:58, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My aim was to cover that at the end of the sentence, see below for a possible way of bringing it forward without getting into "also known as" stuff. . dave souza, talk 16:39, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Better check and make sure what the motivations are behind this sudden effort to wish to alter the lede.--MONGO 15:02, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Mongo, we are here discussing content, not motivation. Thank you, Grandma (talk) 15:05, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Mongo, if you are unhappy with something specific, or if you can suggest a specific improvement, then please say it. Again, thank you, Grandma (talk) 15:14, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes...I disagree with all your edits so far...that's specific. While the lede is longish and has changed a fair bit since this article achieved FA, the subject matter does deserve expansion and in this case cites in the lede due to the subject matter.--MONGO 16:18, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
To be helpful, please say why you disagree. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 16:30, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"observed century scale" vs "current long term"

Here's a small difference of opinion; I'm your Grandma wants to say that GW refers

to the observed century-scale rise in the average temperature of the Earth's climate system and its related effects.

And I want to say it refers

to the current long-term rise in the average temperature of the Earth's climate system and its related effects

The reasons I'm your Grandma prefers her version are perfectly valid. Her edit summary says "observed" because global warming is not just an inference, "century-scale" as opposed to paleo changes. Although both are true, in my view attempting to convey that level of technical nuance in the opening sentence (A) expects too much and (B) puts 10th graders on the defensive with technical speak right off the bat. So I prefer "current long term" because its is simpler language for the lead.
What do others think? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 15:53, 9 December 2014 (UTC) I'd like to say[reply]

Century scale is incoherent gibberish....your option is the better of two bad ones.--MONGO 16:21, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Lotsa my writing can be described like that (hopefully more like the latter than the former!) NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 16:31, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Taking this and the above point together, how about "Global warming is the climate change observed over a century of continuing rise in the average temperature of the Earth's climate system, and its related effects." This highlights climate change as being the same thing over the current 1,000 year period. . . dave souza, talk 16:39, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I like it! Grandma (talk) 16:43, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Global warming is the climate change currently underway as a result of Earth's positive radiation balance. It began over a century ago and is documented by multiple lines of scientific evidence show that the climate system is warming.[2][3]"
Now, NewsGuy, don't take it personally, but I prefer Dave's proposed sentence. Still, the positive radiation page should of be linked somehow, if not already done. Things are progressing! Grandma (talk) 16:58, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dave and others...

Reasoning; Here's why I think some tweaks to Dave's suggestion would improve it
  • we can drop "and its related effects" because that is redundant with "climate change" in this phrasing.
  • plus Dave's text is susceptible to the mis-reading that we were definitely observing the rise in 1920s, 1930s, 1940s.... whereas there was some uncertainty whether it was headed up or down back then. Today we have lots of proxie records to back up the instrumental record, but most of them weren't being "observed" for over a century.
NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 17:07, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
NewsGuy, my apologies, I was just out for a walk, thinking, and realizing that I didn't explain myself. We all tend to focus on slightly different issues, don't we?
(1) One thing I'm reacting to is the use of the expression "currently underway". I would have similar concerns about the word "presently". Why? Well, because we have climate-change deniers that confuse a trend occurring over many decades or a century (or more) with more rapid fluctuations. Indeed, some deniers claim that the recent seeming "pause" means we aren't having any more global warming. Some people even seem to think that a low temperature in some part of the world means we aren't having any more global warming. We need to avoid such confusion in the lead, so that is why I'm not in favor of "currently" or "presently" or similar. So that is one point.
(2) Also, I think the mention of "related effects" needs to be in this thesis sentence because this page (and even the last couple paragraphs in the lead) discuss related effects. Whether or not all those "related" issues should be there is another subject, but as long as they are, then I guess I favor some foreshadowing in the thesis sentence.
(3) I still like the word "observed" because it summarizes the factual nature of global warming. It is observed, not inferred, and while its cause is something that might be discussed (multiple causes, but mankind is THE major player), the fact remains, we have had real global warming.
(4) I think that some mention of "century" or similar needs to be in the thesis sentence because "global warming", in the sense of this particular article, is not about longer term paleoclimate change that has natural cause outside of mankind's own influence. Again, confusing paleoclimate with the recent historical (century-scale or whatever) global warming is often the subject of confusion among the public.
(5) I find the page Earth's positive radiation balance interesting, but I think the title sounds very technical, so much so, it might dissuade many readers from, well, continuing to read. Like I say, this page needs to be linked, even somewhere in the lead.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Now I have to go eat some oatmeal, Grandma (talk) 17:22, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Should we go with Dave's suggestion? LadyLeodia (talk) 01:29, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

shall we at least acknowledge subsequent critique? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:46, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, of course. You might respond to Grandma's points? Or find compromise. All of this seems very civilized. LadyLeodia (talk) 01:54, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Tone and vagueness of "many unprecedented observations" in intro

I added the {{which}} tag after "Many" in the following sentence in the intro, saying this wasn't really explained in the article:

Many of the observed changes in the decades since the 1950s are unprecedented in comparison with those that have occurred over previous millennia.

User:I'm your Grandma. reverted this with the edit summary:

See plot of temperature for past 2000 years (Observed temperature changes) and plot of CO2 (Greenhouse gases), for examples.

This sentence references an IPCC quote:

since the 1950s, many of the observed changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia

There is a big difference between being unprecedented in the last few decades and being unprecedented in the last few millennia, and the Wikipedia version doesn't make this clear. The snippet "many observations are unprecedented" sounds more persuasive than documentary, and could be read as hyping. I find it especially problematic because it is vague. Yeah, lots of things are unprecedented; do they matter, or is the time scale we are choosing to talk about arbitrary? Which are we talking about, anyway? The term "unprecedented" doesn't really pop up later in the article to say "this is what that sentence in the intro is talking about, now in more detail". The edit summary does not really specify, just points me in a vague direction. But anyway, I was not asking for my own information; I was just trying to point out the article needs to be fixed to sound more neutral.

The underlying point is worth making. I would suggest more specific wording to point out things like:

  • Mean surface temperature in the 2000s is the highest it has been in about 120,000 years. (reading File:EPICA temperature plot.svg on temperature record)
  • The concentration of carbon dioxide is the highest it has been in about 650,000 years. (reading File:Evidence CO2.jpg)
  • Driven by worldwide industrialization in the past few centuries, the rates of increase of mean temperature and carbon dioxide are usually fast, with significant changes occurring in decades rather than thousands of years.

If we wanted to concisely change the existing sentence, we might say:

  • The observed increases in global average surface temperature and atmospheric carbon dioxide have been much faster since the 1950s than the natural changes of previous millennia, and are now higher than at any time for hundreds of thousands of years prior.

I didn't see any charts showing similar trends for sea level to which this quote clearly applies, so maybe that's not included in the "many observations" even though that rise is pretty famous. (File:Sea level temp 140ky.gif seems to show a major increase a few thousand years before industrialization.) I don't know if it's simply a lagging phenomenon or if there's a different chart that would show the quote does apply clearly.

I hope it is clear what I am getting at? I'm wondering what sort of wording other editors would like to see here. -- Beland (talk) 04:05, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent post! Thanks for your interest. I agree we should polish that. But we should also be polishing all the text after that sentence too, and hopefully others will pick up the baton. For one, Nigelj (talk · contribs) offered up a possible outline for the lead (in the oldest of the three archived links in one of my comments yesterday). Maybe that's a place to start. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 09:03, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, a very good post. One thing to recognize, here, is that there are two issues slightly wrapped up in this discussion and the last sentence in the first paragraphs of the introduction that is under question. One is the rate of change of the temperature (and related metrics) of the Earth system, and the other is the absolute value of that temperature (metrics). It appears that the sentence in the introduction is about rate of change. On the other hand, the first two bullet points given by Beland are about absolute value. So, I just wanted to make the obvious point that we should be aware of these two issues, both of which are important. 24.8.231.222 (talk) 13:54, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not entirely sure what to make of those comments, but I'm not hearing "please no stop", so in the interest of a concrete fix without waiting for the entire intro to get resolved, I replaced the claim in the article intro. Feel free to improve as you see fit. -- Beland (talk) 18:10, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a link to the outline I proposed six months ago, to save people hunting for it. I hope it may prove useful yet. Please feel free to copy and paste a relevant bit into a new section here if that would help. --Nigelj (talk) 20:56, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

FYI AE complaint

FYI, editors here may be interested (or not) in these other threads

NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 05:31, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, wow, that whole page IPCC consensus is, well, something else. Start with the first sentence in the "lede". No. Not good. LadyLeodia (talk) 02:20, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The entire thing is drivel. This is the best version William M. Connolley (talk) 10:17, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The young lady looks for honeypots and found a ungentleman to lead her around? Nice pairing. Serten II (talk) 11:50, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As usual, I was right. It was drivel, and has been deleted William M. Connolley (talk) 16:56, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If anyone wants to help with it, User:Serten II/IPCC consensus is a userspace draft. . . dave souza, talk 17:13, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As usual, the lady disappeared. Serten II (talk) 09:40, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 2 January 2015

|answered=no

I request that the following information, easily verifiable with Wikipedia sources, be included in this article in order to provide an historical background to the heavily opinion-driven and prediction-weighted text.

The current global average temperature is about 15°C and for the last 500 million years, the earth has ranged between 12°C and 22°C, and for two-thirds of that time it has been within a degree or so of 22°C. Since the Holocene Optimum [[1]] (apposite term chosen), the world has cooled slightly, with a recent uptick (see: Hockey Stick [[2]]) in the last 150 years. If it does not persist, we may descend into another glaciation like the one we emerged from 20,000 years ago, when London was buried under a mile of ice.

The Ice Age we are in began 2.5 million years ago, when the Arctic ice cap became perennial (see: Ice Age [[3]], definition). In the last million years we have had 8 interglacials like the one we're in now, surrounded by glacials like the one we emerged from 14,000 years ago, when the sea level rose 22 meters in a few hundred years. After that, it continued to rise another 80 meters until it stabilized at a few mm a decade a few thousand years ago. 120,000 years ago, sea level was six meters higher than now, and atmospheric CO2 was about 280 ppmv.[4] Oiler99 (talk) 04:46, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have the wrong article. This article (Global warming) is about the recent warming, while the article Climate change is about climate change in general, and that article already contains the information that you present here. See the header on top of this article, where this is clearly delineated :) --Kim D. Petersen 07:13, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done - as answer above. - Arjayay (talk) 11:41, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

|answered=no

The current warming began about 18,000 years ago, and the last 150 years of the anthropocene is a minor blip in the general cooling since the Holocene Optimum. This needs to be considered in any article pretending to be devoted to the science rather than to the psychology. Choosing your starting point on a chart is classical statistical cherry-picking, and illegitimate. It shows bad faith. --Oiler99 (talk) 06:38, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh really? Take that up with Marcott, S. A.; Shakun, J. D.; Clark, P. U.; Mix, A. C. (8 March 2013), "A Reconstruction of Regional and Global Temperature for the Past 11,300 Years", Science, 339 (6124): 1198–1201, Bibcode:2013Sci...339.1198M, doi:10.1126/science.1228026, PMID 23471405 for example. . . dave souza, talk 08:30, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]