Talk:Augusto Pinochet

Alternatives to Pinochet and his regime in 1973

Amongst all the moral indignation - much of it false and facile (including the automatic knee-jerk use of the word 'fascist', which cannot be applied to Pinochet's regime) - I have never heard any constructive views put forward on how the Chilean state should have proceeded given the disastrous state of affairs obtaining at the end of Allende's rule.

Should the parliament simply have let Allende carry on with 1000% inflation? With its East German and Soviet advisers, expropriations, nationalisations without compensation, and so on?

Pinochet's rule was not perfect, but he did restore stability to the country, much as Franco did to Spain and - to be honest - Soviet dictatorship did after the Russian civil war. No society tolerates the prospect of its own breakdown for long and the survival of the community is the overriding social and biological principle in human behaviour. It is to be regretted that Pinochet's restoration of order involved the murder and torture of so many, but, in the long run, the alternative would have been far worse.

Pinochet compared

1. Henry VIII makes Pinochet look like a social worker. Discuss. 2. Put the following in order of nastiness (equal positions are allowed): Lenin / Hitler / Cromwell / Caligula / Pinochet / Stalin / Castro / Franco / Suleiman the Magnificent / Saddam Husein / Mussolini / Napoleon. Does the context become clearer?

Pronunciation of Pinochet

According to all three Chileans who have pronounced Pinochet on Forvo, the t in Pinochet is silent. Therefore the pronunciation section in the article needs to be corrected.

• I just listened to the three clips, and they differ. For the final syllable, the first sounds like "shay", while the second and third sound closer to "chet". That variation matches this article . I will change the article, unless someone has more information. Rks13 (talk) 19:48, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Is the article about Pinochet or the dictatorship?

The article contains much content that is already discussed in Military dictatorship of Chile (1973–90). I suggest this article should focus on his persona more than the general developments in Chile in the 1970s and 1980s. Therefore some content on aspects where the link to Pinochet is not direct nor sourced should be removed. Dentren | ^Talk 14:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

In principle, yes, but it's easy to go too far with this. If you had specific things you wanted to removed, I'd like to discuss them here first. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:04, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

To begin.. the role of the US in instigating the 1973 coup is well attested in various Wikipedia articles (1973 Chilean coup d'état, United States intervention in Chile). Pinochet did not participate in the coup planning and essentially joined at the very last moment. No contact between the US and Pinochet is known before the coup. Therefore I suggest to remove US involvement in the coup making from Pinochets article. Dentren | ^Talk 19:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

With due respect, I disagree. Pinochet is notable because he was the dictator of Chile; scholarly sources suggest he would never have done so without the US intervention, and as such it is essential background information. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:38, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe a total removal of US invlvment is not the best.. but a slight shift of focus in that section towards Pinochet. Anyway I am not sure that the US "help" was imprescindible for the coup. My impression is that that view is commonly read in English narratives, in Spanish language accounts the coup is commonly presented as a largely internal phenomenon. Dentren | ^Talk 09:30, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Well, I have not read many Spanish descriptions of it. Something to watch out for, though, is that sources published approximately before 2003 tended to underestimate US influence, because there were a number of documents declassified around then which supported the view of heavy US influence. I'm amenable to discuss wording changes; what are you thinking of? Vanamonde93 (talk) 14:24, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

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American backed coup and background to take over

United States-backed coup d'état on 11 September 1973.

The authorities deny they caused the coup. The view that they caused it is not a mainstream view and should not be in the lead. WP:Fringe WP:Prove

Interestingly enough they were told about the coup just before it was due to happen but instructed the CIA office in Chile not to interfere.

Propose removal of WP:unverifiable information.

People1750 (talk) 17:54, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

The article is carefully written to suggest a direct American role in the coup without actually saying so, and to suggest a disagreement between the official U.S. government reports on the matter and several far-left "academics" where none exists. The propagandizing is so laughably transparent that I wouldn't lose much sleep over it.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 18:52, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

User talk:TheTimesAreAChanging

Minor point but important, if the CIA state they were not involved its good evidence they were not involved. They are part of a respectable government. The academics benefit from being published so sometimes publish WP:Fringe work. CIA is mainstream, therefore unless we find solid evidence we cannot slant the article : WP: Weight.

It reads like they did - "a United States-backed coup d'état on 11 September 1973" - that is pretty clear to me. It is misinformation ! WP:Prove it.

People1750 (talk) 21:39, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

pronunciation of 'pinochet'

The article currently gives one pronunciation in -/ʃā/, which is strange for both IPA and Spanish. Based on the use of /ʃ/, being mostly a foreign phoneme in Spanish, I imagine this is the Spanish approximation of the French pronunciation, but in that case I would have anticipated /e/. I'm not an expert on Spanish linguistics, but the /ā/ phoneme was unfamiliar to me, and checking both a grammar and the wiki page on Spanish phonology finds nothing relevant. Someone should clear this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Telmac (talk • contribs) 02:39, 29 February 2016 (UTC)