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[Untitled]

I removed the following sentence from the article:

If Three Studies for Figures at the Base of a Crucifixion (1944) is Bacon's masterpiece, then Painting (1946) has a good claim to be his magnum opus.

dagonet (talk) 12:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 July 2017

It has been proposed in this section that Painting 1946 be renamed and moved to Painting (Bacon 1946).

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Painting (1946) → Painting (Bacon 1946) – The article treats "(1946)" not as a parenthetical qualifier, but as part of the title and italicizes the full title as "Painting (1946)". However, Template:Francis Bacon (artist), pipes the title as Painting (1946), thus indicating the title as simply "Painting" and "(1946)" as merely the title's qualifier. If "(1946)" is not part of the title, but only a qualifier, then the title should be analogous to such other titles in the template as Dog (Bacon 1952) or Two Figures (Bacon 1952). —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 07:10, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Announcement of this discussion appears at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 07:10, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You should have researched sources outside WP before launching this. MOMA does treat Painting as the whole title but other sources may do differently. Please research more. Some disam is clearly needed, but I would prefer "Francis Bacon" to just the surname. Johnbod (talk) 13:04, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As above, please present your research for how reliable sources title the work before requesting a move discussion czar 17:40, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Many sources call it simply Painting[1][2][3][4], but francis-bacon.com calls it Painting 1946[5], and at least one serious blog calls it Painting (1946). The current title is not causing problems, so I think it's ok, but if it needs to be moved, it should be to Painting (Bacon) per MOS:VATITLE and WP:PRECISE. The other suggestions should be redirects. Station1 (talk) 18:39, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The title is Painting 1946.[6] Ceoil (talk) 18:44, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I would give priority to MoMA, as this work is in their collection. The MoMA website gives the title as "Painting".[7] In this case a vote by Google search hits is a poor indication. It is unlikely that Bacon kept records,[8] and I suspect that this name was not assigned by him. I would use whatever title is used in the recent Catalogue Raisonné, ISBN 978-0956927316 (but I can't afford a copy).

If the title of the artwork is "Painting" then the article title should be rendered as "Painting (1946)" (or "Painting (Bacon)"). The template should have "Painting (1946)", and the article text should refer to it as Painting. If the title of the artwork is "Painting (1946)" then the article title should be rendered as "Painting (1946)", and the template should have "Painting (1946) (1946)". Verbcatcher (talk) 23:31, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly MOMA calls it simply Painting but plenty of other sources put the 1946 in the title. Painting without more would as plainly inadequate as Dog or Two Figures. As far as I can see, no source calls this work Painting (Bacon). Is there another work entitled Painting 1946 or Painting (1946) by a different artist from which this work needs to be disambiguated? Does Bacon have any other works entitled simply Painting? If the answer to both of these questions is "no" then using both "Bacon" and "1946" would be surplussage. In that case, what is wrong with using the parenthetical date as a disambiguator in this case?

Revision as of 23:31, 23 July 2017 edit Verbcatcher (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users 39,916 edits →Requested move 23 July 2017: analysis ← Previous edit		Revision as of 07:52, 24 July 2017 edit undo 213.205.198.122 (talk) →Requested move 23 July 2017: comment Next edit →
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	:If the title of the artwork is "Painting" then the article title should be rendered as "''Painting'' (1946)" (or "''Painting'' (Bacon)"). [[Template:Francis Bacon (artist)\|The template]] should have "''Painting'' (1946)", and the article text should refer to it as ''Painting''. If the title of the artwork is "Painting (1946)" then the article title should be rendered as "''Painting (1946)''", and the template should have "''Painting (1946)'' (1946)". [[User:Verbcatcher\|Verbcatcher]] ([[User talk:Verbcatcher\|talk]]) 23:31, 23 July 2017 (UTC)		:If the title of the artwork is "Painting" then the article title should be rendered as "''Painting'' (1946)" (or "''Painting'' (Bacon)"). [[Template:Francis Bacon (artist)\|The template]] should have "''Painting'' (1946)", and the article text should refer to it as ''Painting''. If the title of the artwork is "Painting (1946)" then the article title should be rendered as "''Painting (1946)''", and the template should have "''Painting (1946)'' (1946)". [[User:Verbcatcher\|Verbcatcher]] ([[User talk:Verbcatcher\|talk]]) 23:31, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
			* Certainly MOMA calls it simply ''Painting'' but plenty of other sources put the ''1946'' in the title. ''Painting'' without more would as plainly inadequate as ''[[Dog]]'' or ''[[Two Figures]]''. As far as I can see, no source calls this work ''Painting (Bacon)''. Is there another work entitled ''[[Painting 1946]]'' or ''[[Painting (1946)]]'' by a different artist from which this work needs to be disambiguated? Does Bacon have any other works entitled simply ''Painting''? If the answer to both of these questions is "no" then using both "Bacon" and "1946" would be surplussage. In that case, what is wrong with using the parenthetical date as a disambiguator in this case?