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==Lead==
==Lead==
Came here via creating the page for [[Waterston Manor]], the inspiration for Weatherbury Farm in Far From the Madding Crowd. I am puzzled as to the meaning of the final sentence of the first paragraph of the lead. This reads: "He was highly critical of much in Victorian society, though Hardy focused more on a declining rural society." Does this mean he was highly critical of the ''declining rural society'', but found other aspects of Victorian society laudable? Or does it mean that he found the decline of rural society deplorable, and by implication, similarly deplored Victorian industrialisation which contributed to the rural decline? Or something else entirely? I don't know enough about his works to attempt a change but I do find the sentence very unclear. [[User:KJP1|KJP1]] ([[User talk:KJP1|talk]]) 16:45, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Came here via creating the page for [[Waterston Manor]], the inspiration for Weatherbury Farm in Far From the Madding Crowd. I am puzzled as to the meaning of the final sentence of the first paragraph of the lead. This reads: "He was highly critical of much in Victorian society, though Hardy focused more on a declining rural society." Does this mean he was highly critical of the ''declining rural society'', but found other aspects of Victorian society laudable? Or does it mean that he found the decline of rural society deplorable, and by implication, similarly deplored Victorian industrialisation which contributed to the rural decline? Or something else entirely? I don't know enough about his works to attempt a change but I do find the sentence very unclear. [[User:KJP1|KJP1]] ([[User talk:KJP1|talk]]) 16:45, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

== Music ==

I am certainly not an authority on this - but no-one has mentioned that he was a violinist, played at dances, and left us manuscripts, an important historical source recording the music of the time. Although, in fairness, musicians don't really talk about him as a novellist!23:36, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[[User:Ripov|Ripov]] ([[User talk:Ripov|talk]])

Revision as of 23:36, 26 November 2017

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Discussion

I've done some edits and expanded the novel section a little. His poetry section could be expanded on considerably - if anyone has the time. --Tomheaton 15:24, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Expanding this article

I'm in the process of expanding this article. Felt it was a shame that such a great writer had only a small article.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

The dates on the List of Works look inaccurate to me. I'm looking for another source. So don't use them in your doctorate! --Tomheaton 15:08, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

  • now fixed List of Works --Tomheaton 08:05, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have added a Literary Themes section. I felt that, as this was merged with the section on novels, it would be better to have a completely new section dedicated to themes and the history of the novels can now be a stand-alone section. Ivankinsman 18:51, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Weasel words and Hardy's agnosticism

Wikipedia:Citing sources states that "Some people say..." are weasel words and as "some would claim" is not materially different, it should be bolstered up with better citation. Hardy's spiritual and religious life is worth better treatment. I'm going to balance it with what I've found here in the Norton Anthology regarding possible spiritism or borderline pantheism (along with his reply to a clergyman about Darwin). Hopefully others who are better informed about his life will be able to give a fuller, referenced picture.--JECompton 00:30, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, done... sort of. I need to learn how to make use of a single footnote multiple times, but if someone knows offhand, go ahead and fix it. Also, the biography seems a little skewed toward the religion point. If I can get back to it I'll fix the footnote and add some more detail about his first wife and her derangement (which is not quite mentioned in this article presently).--JECompton 01:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I added that critics have struggled to reach any sort of consensus about his spirituality, to further explain the mix of theistic ideologies listed in this section. 9/26/16 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nixonmk (talk • contribs) 14:21, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Far From the Madding Crowd

What should we do with that? There's a link in the article that leads to a page with 'From' capitalized. Then, in the list of his works, a link leads to another page with different text with 'from' lower-cased. Should we delete a page?

Those two need to be merged. I will insert appropriate disclaimers. No idea which version is correct -- my edition can not agree, as from is not capitalised on the cover, but it is capitalised within. Przepla 23:24, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Alicia's Diary

I added Alicia's Diary to list of works and dated it. I also made a page for it. You can improve on it if you like.

Also, I don't think you have to link two identical dates in a row, so I unlinked a couple dates. For example, there were two 1887s in a row, so I made the second one regular. They do that in articles like "October 5" or whatever ones do that.

Upper or Higher Bockhampton?

I thought it should be "Higher" since that's what's on the map today (and another source I checked uses "Higher") but the photo of the tombstone shows "Upper Bockhampton". I'll see if I can find out more. Maybe the names have changed, or are interchangeable, with only one customarily being shown on maps of the area. I live near Dorchester so might see what's "on the ground" next time I'm up that way.

All the local signs (and the Ordnance Survey) say "Higher Bockhampton" so we should use that. Wanted to get a photo of Hardy's Cottage to post, but it's (a) closed until next month, and (b) scaffolded for "presentational" reasons, whatever those are. I'll try again next month.

Drongo 17:24, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Imho, both names should be spelled out, as historic and scientific texts mention only "Upper Bockhampton". I'll change the page accordingly.

91.2.111.97 (talk) 00:58, 2 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Family - surviving relative

I was most interested to have found this section added since I last visited the article, yet I am not sure whether the claim that the surviving relative Jack Hardy, 15, being the grandson of Thomas actually adds up...? Even if Thomas Hardy had a son in his 87th and final year, which would seem highly unlikely, it would still be pushing it to suggest that that son was the father of Jack! Am I missing something, or does anyone else agree? Ben, 27th April 2006.

I have never heard of Thomas Hardy having had any children. The article does not mention any children; neither does it state that he never had any. Can someone please confirm that Hardy was never a father, then that information can be added to the article. Many other Wikipedia biographies state the fact that the subject (has) never had any children. F W Nietzsche (talk) 23:20, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Two different dates

In the Thomas Hardy article, he is said to have married Emma Gifford in 1884. Then later on it says that they were married in 1874. Which one is it?

Spoiler warning

Hi all, I'm about halfway through reading Jude the Obscure and wanted to get a little more info on Hardy's life and other works. I came to the "Novels" section and was suddenly, without any kind of warning, informed about the contents of "Jude's suicide note". Now, I seriously have no idea how the book ends, so for all I know Jude may write a suicide note then decide to throw it away, but somehow I doubt that's what happens. Please have consideration for readers who might actually be engrossed in the book and not want to know how it ends and include a &#$#!* spoiler warning. Yours, with no small amount of wrath, Charlie 20:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well OK, but there is a wider issue here. How is it possible to write about literature effectively without providing examples from the subject of the writing? In general if you read lit. crit. it is assumed that you have read the novels or are at least familiar with them. In this case the article gives two examples of "poignant details" from Hardy's novels: it does not reveal the contents of the suicide note, nor the significance of the blood stain on the ceiling in Tess, merely their existence. (And by the way it says "little Jude's note" not "Jude's note").
Although I can see why they are used in the "Synopsis of the Plot" sections in entries on given books, I dislike the spoiler template in any context. If readers don't want to know the details of a story line why are they reading about it? The Oxford Companion to Literature for example gets on pretty well without spoiler markers. How would they add to the encyclopedic tone here?
Not to be too high handed though, how about if the article said "such as the spreading bloodstain on the ceiling at the end of Tess of the D'Urbervilles or the pathetic note left by the little boy in Jude the Obscure? Would this be acceptable to readers who had not got to that scene yet? Thruston 11:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your personal stylistic objections to the spoiler-warning aside, it exists for a reason. If I had gone to the "Jude the Obscure" wikipedia page, then yes, I would have been asking for the plot to be revealed to me, but on the "Thomas Hardy" page, no such expectation exists. That said, on further consideration the article does not really reveal anything crucial about the plot of Jude the Obscure. I had missed the "little" before "Jude's suicide note" and then stopped reading immediately lest I learn more. Charlie 14:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reference section gripes

I took a look at the bibliography and realized despite its length, it isn't alphabetized. It seems like it wouldn't be too hard to alphabetize entries in the "references" section, but after looking around I find that even "good" articles (according to wp) have mangled lists. It IS something we should have, though, especially with a long bibliography as on this article. It is part of the Harvard citation style, and it's just a lot easier for people to read.--JECompton 23:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a more urgent gripe. According to Harvard Style for bibliographies, the entries should use italics for titles of books, quotations for articles found in periodicals or part of a larger collection. This is the rule for pretty much any style (MLA, APA, etc). I can hardly believe all the current entries on the list are articles--even if they were, they would be incorrect since they should still have their source work in italics. I'm going to change them all to italics instead of quotes unless there is one which obviously isn't a book. I'll also add an entry for a nice article from the Norton Modern Poetry Anthology as an example of when we SHOULD use quotes.--JECompton 23:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My example (Ellman) isn't perfect, but it's a start. I'd be glad for correction on how to cite an unauthored article in a work with two editors. The important thing is that we know which are articles and which are stand-alone works.--JECompton 00:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Prose & poetry break?

I'm no scholar of Hardy, but I think that at least a mention that (other than one short story collection), Hardy never published any more prose after he turned back to his first love of poetry.

Perm Dude 22:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, so I added this information in the poetry section.

Jpcohen (talk) 9:11, 8 November 2010

Minor additions to text made

Minor additions to text made.

Michael Henchard 16:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to add a link like:

to the External Links section. This links to a list of Hardy works that you can download to read on a cell phone. I have read quite a few from this site and got a lot of value out being able to read the PD texts away from the PC.

The texts are Public Domain in the US, just like Project Gutenberg, they are packaged with the reader and available under a creative commons licence (share if (attribution, non-commercial, no derivative) ). The site is non-commercial without registration, subscription, or advertising. The texts as packaged together with the reader as a java program that runs on cell phones, this is a way for people to access the authors work that adds to the range in the existing external links (hopefully translating to more reading going on).

I checked WP:EL and the link seems appropriate:

  • What should be linked: '...should link to a site hosting a copy of the work if none of the "Links normally to be avoided" criteria apply.'
  • Links normally to be avoided: it seems only #8 might apply; 'Direct links to documents that require external applications (such as Flash or Java) to view the relevant content...'. The site lets you download java programs that only run on a J2ME environment, this means most/all current cell phones. So although they are limited to being read on a phone they do add an access method to all the others in the existing External Links, in the same way that LibriVox adds a format but requires an mp3 player.

Filomath 13:18, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Section on Hardy's religious beliefs

There should be some information about the extensive religious metaphors used in some of his novels (e.g. sowing the seeds of faith in The Mayor of Castorbridge). I don't have any references for this on hand, but they're certainly out there.Fuzzform (talk) 23:01, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Added "immanent will" to use his own term instead of the previous "firm will," which belied his own understanding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nixonmk (talk • contribs) 14:21, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hardy's Loves

Gittings' biography and other writers too (eg, John Fowles) have noted that Hardy was engaged Tryphena Sparks for a number of years, five, I think, but that when he returned to Dorset from London, instead of marrying her, he dumped her. She was very important to him, and yet she's not even mentioned here. This seems like a serious ommission to me. In general, the biography is pretty thin gruel, and desperately needs bolstering. Note too, that Somerset Maughn's Cakes and Ale is widely regarded as a roman a clef about Hardy and his second wife. Theonemacduff (talk) 21:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

'Religious beliefs' needs to be NPOV and based on reliable sources

I'd like to propose pruning some of the uncited or poorly cited material from the 'religious beliefs' section, as follows:

  • Remove uncited claims: 'Some attributed the bleak outlook of many of his novels as reflecting his view of the absence of God. A sentence found in his Tess of the d'Urbervilles sums up Hardy's philosophical stance even though he doubted God's existence: “The inherent will to enjoy and the circumstantial will against enjoyment”'
  • Remove poorly cited claim: 'These new ideas, along with Darwinism, and a series of unsettling events in Hardy’s life may be the reason for his pessimistic attitude that is perceived by many critics and readers alike.' This is currently cited to an article 'Thomas Hardy: The Tragedy of a Life Without Christ' in the Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society - the article's description of 'The Unbiblical Hardy' and 'His Poisoned Philosophy' suggests that it does not represent a balanced view of Hardy's religious and philosophical views.

I feel that removal of this speculative material would clarify the description of how Hardy's writing reflected his views - does anyone have any objections if I remove it? If the reference to the article in the Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society is not removed, then it might be best to clarify that this is the viewpoint of an author writing for that publication, as there is presently no indication in the article that this view is shared by literary scholars of Hardy and his works. Any thoughts? Carminowe of Hendra (talk) 21:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It has been a week, and no-one has raised comments regarding the above, so I intend to remove the uncited material and the claim cited to the JOTGES article. Leaving the latter in place would require either evidence that the article's position is a majority viewpoint (in which case it could be cited to a mainstream literary journal), or explanation that it is a minority viewpoint (in which case the majority viewpoint would need to be explained, to avoid giving undue weight to a minority viewpoint, as per WP:WEIGHT - that pages 'must not reflect an attempt to rewrite content strictly from the perspective of the minority view'). If at some later date there is a substantial section on Hardy's philosophical views based on mainstream literary criticism, and if there is evidence that the evangelical view of Hardy as an embittered agnostic is a significant viewpoint, then the JOTGES article could be added back in on those terms, but until then its inclusion without indication of the viewpoint's significance unbalances the section. Carminowe of Hendra (talk) 22:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Useful article by Adelene Buckland

Searching for information on Horace Moule's friendship with Hardy, I came across the following article by Adelene Buckland, from Interdisciplinary Studies in the Long Nineteenth Century: Thomas Hardy, Provincial Geology and the Material Imagination. I've added a brief note based on it, but if anyone else is expanding on Hardy's interest in geological discoveries of the time and how it shaped his writing before I get round to doing more, they might find it useful. Regards, Carminowe of Hendra (talk) 23:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

== In popular culture? ==7 Considering the number of film and tv adaptations, surely a section long overdue? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

‎ This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Yoenit (talk) 15:52, 29 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hardy's Heart

The Author's Calendar states: "According to a literary anecdote his heart was to be buried in Stinsford, his birthplace. All went according to plan, until a cat belonging to the poet's sister snatched the heart off the kitchen, where it was temporarily kept, and disappeared into the woods with it." Any truth in this? 194.72.120.131 (talk) 13:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

War propaganda

In septemebr 1914 along with other writers Hardy was invited to the war office to discuss how they could help further war interests. Does anyone know if Hardy did in fact go on to produce writings for the war office as many others did? 83.199.147.27 (talk) 16:48, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dialect

Surprised no section here on Hardy's frequent use of dialect, especially as mentioned at West Country dialects. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:16, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Novels of Character and Environment

When this list of novels includes a collection like Wessex Tales, that is nevertheless correct? Varlaam (talk) 15:27, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

It looks like this page is repeatedly being vandalized by different anonymous users. Does anyone think the article should be semi-protected for some time?Jpcohen (talk) 07:13, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Regards, David David J Johnson (talk) 09:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Influences and influenced?

Schopenhauer? But a more general question - are these info box entries ever meant to be supported by actual sources? and/or first mentioned in the text? Thanks? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:44, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen users add sources when there is controversy over particular influences/influenced. But most often there isn't controversy. Still, one can certainly argue that this kind of category should be restricted to literary influences (i.e. other novelists and poets). And I think it should. So, by that reasoning, removing Schopenhauer would be justified.Jpcohen (talk) 02:22, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I would certainly encourage you to add any sources you can, unless it's contrary to info box policy. I can't see that bulk is an issue, as the writers' names themselves are under a show/hide. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Page move

Someone recently changed the Thomas Hardy page into a dab, redirecting the famous writer's page to Thomas Hardy (writer). Thomas Hardy the writer gets 50000 views per month while none of the other pages on the new dab get even 1000. It seems like a strange thing to do to make 50000 people per month search a dab page to get to the Thomas Hardy writer page. INeverCry 22:37, 1 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Problem solved. INeverCry 23:12, 1 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't this be thoroughly edited -- deletions? -- in accordance with the comments appended sometime ago? Rwood128 (talk) 13:24, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Novels

I have two questions about the last paragraph in the section "Novels". I have copied that paragraph here. It includes some recent edits by another editor:

"Despite this criticism, Hardy had become a celebrity in English literature by the 1900s, with several highly successful novels behind him. Even so, he felt disgust at the public reception of two major works and gave up writing fiction altogether. Hardy also wrote Two on a Tower (1882), a romance story set in the world of astronomy, and one of his more minor works.

The second sentence begins: "Even so, he felt disgust at the public reception of two major works..." I think that there is no point in mentioning his disgust unless the two major works are also mentioned. This leaves the reader wondering, "At the reception of which two of his major works did he feel disgust?"

Regarding the third sentence, the phrase kind of tacked on at the end, "and one of his more minor works", is not only ambiguous but, again, unnecessary. It is ambiguous because it is not clear whether the "one" in "and one of his more minor works" is Two on a Tower or is a work that he wrote after he "gave up writing fiction altogether". If it is the former, there should be no comma after "the world of astronomy". If it is the latter, then why mention it with no title.? In fact, why mention that he wrote Two on a Tower at all right after saying Hardy had given up writing fiction altogether?

Something is not quite right with this paragraph and it needs some work. CorinneSD (talk) 01:36, 14 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm partly guilty here, because I edited without wanting to get too involved -- I'm surprised to see how much work is needed on an article on such a popular author, both in terms of expression and the lack if citations.Rwood128 (talk) 02:37, 14 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I had gone through the article back in September, but a lot has happened since then. I think it is what happens when an article is edited by many different people. We just have to keep working on it so that incrementally it becomes a better article.CorinneSD (talk) 02:49, 14 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll keep watch and try to help when I can find time. Rwood128 (talk) 12:53, 14 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing about Thomas Hardy's Legal career! I understood that Hardy was, in fact, an active magistrate longer than he was a practicing novelist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.147.4 (talk) 07:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the unsigned contribution from an unregistered IP source above; I find nothing in any Hardy biography that mentions any "Legal career". Source please. David J Johnson (talk) 14:08, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are online references to his role as a magistrate, though it's unclear whether it could be called a 'career'. His appointment as magistrate is mentioned in the second paragraph of this Encyclopaedia Brittanica entry, and this academic book analyses the impact of his being a magistrate on his prose. That's just two for starters; it seems the unregistered editor has highlighted something worth investigating. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:42, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Quite agree. A whole book certainly suggests it was a notable aspect of his life. The synopsis says: "While noting the influence of sensation fiction on his literary output this study argues that Hardy rejects the conventional endings of realist and sensation fiction to provoke his readership to examine legal questions which he leaves unanswered in a modernist form of training in judicial reasoning." Martinevans123 (talk) 19:58, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Pallbearers

I was going to add

Hardy’s pallbearers included Rudyard Kipling, George Bernard Shaw, John Galsworthy, A. E. Housman, J. M. Barrie, Edmund Gosse, the Leader of the Opposition, and the Prime Minister, Stanley Baldwin.

with appropriate links. Any reason why I shouldn't?

Ta CharlesWemyss (talk) 19:43, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I see no reason why this should not be added, as long as there are appropiate and reliable sources. Regards, David J Johnson (talk) 07:54, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Came here via creating the page for Waterston Manor, the inspiration for Weatherbury Farm in Far From the Madding Crowd. I am puzzled as to the meaning of the final sentence of the first paragraph of the lead. This reads: "He was highly critical of much in Victorian society, though Hardy focused more on a declining rural society." Does this mean he was highly critical of the declining rural society, but found other aspects of Victorian society laudable? Or does it mean that he found the decline of rural society deplorable, and by implication, similarly deplored Victorian industrialisation which contributed to the rural decline? Or something else entirely? I don't know enough about his works to attempt a change but I do find the sentence very unclear. KJP1 (talk) 16:45, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Music

I am certainly not an authority on this - but no-one has mentioned that he was a violinist, played at dances, and left us manuscripts, an important historical source recording the music of the time. Although, in fairness, musicians don't really talk about him as a novellist!23:36, 26 November 2017 (UTC)Ripov (talk)

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