Talk:Jimmy Hoffa

Time is on their side

This page says "founded 1899"; this page, 1903. They can't both be right.... TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 10:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Complicated. If you read the other article it says that the Team Drivers International Union (TDIU) was formed by the AFL in 1898. (In those days, teamsters actually drove a team (of horses).) Then in 1901, a rival organization called the Teamsters National Union was formed. The new union applied for membership in the AFL, which they were granted on the condition that they merge with the TDIU. They did this in 1903 and called the merged union the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT). So did the current union begin in 1903 as the merged union, or is it a successor organization to the original TDIU? Hard to say. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 06:46, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Rise to Power Section

"At the IBT convention in Los Angeles, he was selected by incoming president Dave Beck, successor to Daniel J. Tobin, who had been president since 1907." Horribly written sentence. Selected to what? 68.6.185.21 (talk) 08:03, 30 July 2010 (UTC)Captain Johnson

Precise time of disappearance

Hoffa disappeared at, or sometime after, 2:45 pm on July 30, 1975, from the parking lot of the Machus Red Fox Restaurant in Bloomfield Township, a suburb of Detroit. According to what he had told others, he believed he was to meet there with two Mafia leaders—Anthony Giacolone from Detroit, and Anthony Provenzano from Union City, New Jersey and New York City.

That doesn't read as clearly as I think it should. Did he actually attend the restaurant with the view to meeting these people, or did he just tell others he was going there? I'm assuming he was last seen (alive) at 2:45pm on that day in the parking lot. But that doesn't tell me if he went inside the restaurant and found Giacolone and Provenzano not there and then came out again; or never made it inside at all before disappearing. If 2:45 pm was the last time he was ever seen, what does it mean to say he disappeared some time after then? If that was the last time he was ever seen, that was the last time he was ever seen. Whatever we're trying to say, we should say it as simply as possible. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:48, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I Actually agree with him, Hoffa was seen getting into a car in the restaurant parking lot with several other men. Investigators are pretty sure that he never got out of the car alive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.6.55 (talk) 19:56, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it's just my imagination, but I think I heard somewhere that he rang his wife from the restaurant (or nearby) asking if either mobster called in his absence. He probably assumed they were late for the meeting and called his residence to let him know. If that's the case, then he definitely did make it to the restaurant. It was probably shortly afterwards that he met his end (or his killers) in the car park of that restaurant. 86.45.135.69 (talk) 17:31, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I read the book "Hoffa", by Arthur A. Sloane, and provides more reliable information, that what I have normally read in an article on the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.17.73 (talk) 13:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Cultural Significance?

why no mention of his disappearance on pop culture? probably the single most mentioned disappearance in movies/tv, much more so than amelia earhart — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.156.53.139 (talk) 10:26, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

See the section entitled "Film and television". I think there was a pop culture section at one time, but everything else that was in it turned out to be unsourced and unsourcable trivial mentions of Hoffa in some film or TV show, which is what most pop culture sections end up being. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 19:54, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Which "Film and television" section would that be? The invisible one or the one that got disappeared? Should we start checking oil drums? Or should we just wait 4 more years and declare it dead?--92.36.134.180 (talk) 13:50, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Article lacks pertinent information. The book "I Heard You Paint Houses" by Charles Brandt should be included in the Further Reading section. Frank Sheeran, the man who confessed to killing Hoffa, is not mentioned once in the article. --Spectre7277 (talk) 14:53, 30 July 2011 (UTC) ^^ Please. Please include this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.154.208 (talk) 21:37, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

The Earlier Edits About Recent Events Weren't Bad To Include At All

DNA tests confirmed a piece of Hoffa's hair was in O'Brien's 1975 Mercury Marquis Brougham and O'Brien denied that Hoffa ever took a ride in that car. Dan Moldea, who did research on the case and wrote about it, is not bad resource to include either. The fact Sheeren made a confession and that blood was found in the house were he alleged Hoffa was killed in is also quite logical to add too. It is no less logical to add than the detail in this article that police searched a farm for Hoffa's body in 2006 and found nothing.75.72.35.253 (talk) 13:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Good morning. The consensus has been that the material presented in the books by Spectre Publishing are original research and cannot be used in the article. Considering that Spectre aggressively attempted to promote their books by editing the page, and you geolocate to that part of the country, I would advise you to cease your edit warring or I will have to initiate a sockpuppet check. Regards, Syrthiss (talk) 13:20, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Not all of it is Spectre Publishing at all. Most of it is from Fox News. I am not affiliated with Spectre either. I'd never even heard of the group until I was doing research for a resource on Hoffa, The consensus policy doesn't have to be unanimous either. It involves group compromising. I can just erase the Spectre part.75.72.35.253 (talk) 13:32, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, I've been looking for a way to put this that steers clear of WP:NPA and here's the best I can do. I don't believe you. And regardless of whether I believe you, this is just one of a myriad of theories of what happened to Hoffa that there's a clear consensus to omit. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 23:20, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Read the Fox News and Teamster articles for yourself and being so self-centered on this. There are no theories. Sheeran made a confession-which I never typed was proven-, DNA was tested on the hair and blood was found. Please respect the consensus and NPOV policies and stop this nonsense. It's also pigheaded to assume I'm with Spectre just because I used a source from their website, which I had never heard of until I was looking for resource on this article75.72.35.253 (talk) 22:37, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Please review WP:BRD. Trying to edit-war that material into the article won't get you what you want. You are ignoring policies, not me. Stop and try to use the policies for dispute resolution to gain consensus if you want the material in the article. Bear in mind that there are a hundred cockamamie theories on what happened to Hoffa. We can't include them all. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 08:32, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

This Frank Sheeran business came up today again (31 July 2016) in http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/30/eric-shawn-reports-how-frank-sheeran-killed-jimmy-hoffa.html from fox news. Not sure if that would change anything. What do you think? 21:42, 31 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.55.253.54 (talk)

File:Jimmy riddle hoffa.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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What did he (allegedly) do wrong?

Knowing little about Hoffa and reading this article, I am wishing someone could add more information about his alleged and convicted criminal involvement. There are gaps that keep the entire article from making much sense. We are only only told of the attempt to bribe a juror and fraud (misuse of union money). Later we are told he had associates in the Mafia. Why did the union and Hoffa associate with the Mafia? What was the mutual benefit? Why was Attorney General Kennedy pursuing Hoffa for so long? Did Hoffa attempt to bribe the juror on his fraud case or on another case? What started the fraud case, and was that the only other crime he was tried for? Why would the Mafia want to kill him?Markdf10825 (talk) 15:05, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this is a major weakness in this article, almost significant enough to merit it being demoted from "B" Class. Based on what I heard/remember from the time, the Teamsters were entangled with organized crime due to the nature of the industry: teamsters, warehousemen, & truck drivers not only were originally unskilled & uneducated labor, but presented countless opportunities for crime rings for smuggling, theft, & related property crimes -- much as longshoremen faced. In order to gain control of the union, Hoffa made a lot of compromises & agreements with unsavory types. The union became so corrupt that the AFL-CIO expelled them in 1957, & Teamsters were the pariah in the labor movement for a generation afterwards. The question of just how much of this corruption was due to Hoffa (as opposed to Beck or Tobin before him) is a good one & should at least be raised, if not discussed, in this article. The article on the Teamsters union itself handles this matter much better, & should be studied for further ideas. -- llywrch (talk) 17:01, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Death

The Richard Kuklinski page says that Hoffa was murdered by Kuklinski with a hunting knife. The body was hid in a 55 gallon drum. The drum was set on fire by Kuklinski and then buried in a junkyard. The drum was later dug up by Kuklinski and put in a car's trunk. The car was then shipped to Japan to be melted down. Heymister14 (talk) 20:06, 25 October 2012 (UTC)heymister14

Slanderous 5.

"Hoffa became involved with organized crime from the early years of his Teamsters work, and this connection continued until his disappearance in 1975." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.42.215.25 (talk) 02:01, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

A dumb (?) question about his death date

There is probably some legal technicality here but why does it have in the lede "(February 14, 1913 – ?)"? If he was declared legally dead on July 30, 1982, that doesn't become his death date? Shouldn't that date be in the place of the question mark? Thanks. __209.179.0.121 (talk) 04:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

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Disappearance section

I read the book "Hoffa", by Arthur A. Sloane, and providing some of the information, to expand more on the disappearance section.

Here are the sources:

1. New York Times, August 2, 1975, p. 6.

2. Ibid., August 13, 1975, p. 14.

3. Time, August 18 1975, p. 17.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.17.73 (talk) 13:28, 8 July 2018 (UTC)