Talk:Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Unreal Engine

The slide with the Unreal Engine logo was for the entire presentation, not SSBU. SSBU's copyright information does not mention Unreal Engine anywhere. Neither Nintendo nor Epic Games have stated anything on the matter, so I do not believe the article should state the engine until something is officially announced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:983:4502:4CDA:D8F8:C3BB:6784:B11A (talk) 19:30, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

I concur. The information has been removed from the article. Interqwark ^{talk contribs} 20:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Just adding there that the Spanish version of Gamereactor, which we treat as a reliable source, says the same. It might be true that the innformation in the slideshow was misleading, but neither source stated where they extracted the engine name from. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions too quickly, but yes, it would be best to keep it out for now. Lordtobi (✉) 20:39, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

@Lordtobi: Gamereactor is under “Inconclusive discussions” on WP:VG/S. Interqwark ^{talk contribs} 21:08, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

This quote in the article, "Ultimate's game engine was built from scratch and is not an updated version of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U's engine", is also incorrect. The citation doesn't say anywhere that it is a new game engine. In the USGamer article, it mentions that they have improved the lighting, and remade the content from scratch, all of this implies that the engine is, in fact, the same, but there is improved baking/shaders and the assets/content are new, rather than the engine being new. Fluxilla123 (talk) 09:53, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

David Hayter and Snake

1 – does this article warrants the inclusion about David Hayter voicing Snake again? --Lone Guardian (talk) 01:12, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Question

What does the article mean when it says it is a non-traditional fighting game? Ramesty (talk) 19:39, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Most fighting games involve attacking your foes until their health meter is zeroed out, ending the match. There's no health meter, but as characters get more hurt, there's a better and better chance that you can send them flying off the screen. --Masem (t) 19:43, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

@Ramesty: Traditional fighting games, like the Street Fighter or Tekken games, usually only let you fight one person at a time and are heavily focused on button combos. The Super Smash Bros. games allow up to eighth players to fight one another at a time, and attacks rely on the player knowing when to use which attack, rather than remembering many different combos. Also, like Masem says, the Super Smash Bros. games feature percentages rather than health bars. Rather than knocking out your foes by depleting their health bar, you damage them and increase their percentage until they have a high enough percentage to get easily knocked off the stage. The SSB games do also have a mode where fighters have traditional hit points, however. This percentage mechanic is not something that any fighting game has used before SSB, and it is still not something that fighting games use. The only other game I know about that has a similar mechanic is PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale, in which up to four players build up their “AP” meters by damaging their opponents and finally unleash their “Super Moves” to actually kill their opponents. In most fighting games, you defeat your opponents by depleting their health, not by launching them off the stage like in the SSB games or by building up an ultimate attack like in PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale. Interqwark ^{talk contribs} 19:44, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Gameplay

Under the “Gameplay” section there’s an error when talking about Cloud’s Limit Break Gauge. It doesn’t track his progress to his Final Smash, because his Final Smash is not Limit Break. Limit Break gives you an enhanced version of a special move one time. All characters get their Final Smash by breaking a Smash Ball. I’d fix this myself but the page is fully protected. Aykrivwassup (talk) 13:08, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Fixed it. --Masem (t) 14:08, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

As of today 8/08/2018 and the new announcements, there is, in fact, now a gauge that displays Final Smash progress. However, this still does not relate to Cloud's Limit Gauge. Just thought I'd add that. NightmareSnake (talk) 19:35, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Resources

Would it help if I pasted a lot of websites on this talk page for you guys to skim over to see which ones you want to use a references? Ramesty (talk) 01:29, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

With a game as popular as this, it's really not hard to find sources for it. I don't think it's particularly necessary... Sergecross73 msg me 01:36, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Fifth vs. sixth game in series

There should be a consensus reached on whether to consider Ultimate the fifth or sixth game in the series (unless there is already prior consensus from the Smash 4 articles that I'm unaware of). If I remember right, there is a Sakurai quote where he says he considers both of the Smash 4 games to be separate "entries" but I would instead argue that Smash 4 should be counted as one entry considering that it had the same engine and character roster and therefore Ultimate would be the fifth game. Basil the Bat Lord (talk) 05:27, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Masahiro Sakurai has stated in an interview in Kotaku that Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U are "versions four and five within the series." The interviewer even asks for clarification if he's by "four and five" he means the 3DS and Wii U games separately, to which Sakurai responded "Yes, exactly." The article is entitled "An In-Depth Chat With The Genius Behind Super Smash Bros." on Kotaku. With this in mind, Ultimate should be officially considered the sixth game in the Super Smash Bros. series. WandringMinstrel64 (talk) 02:00, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Sakurai's position doesn't outweigh how secondary reliable sources have treated them, which is essentially as a single release on two platforms. -- ferret (talk) 02:05, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

I think it's best we don't number it at all. If Nintendo isn't bothering to number it Smash 5 or Smash 6, then neither should we. Sergecross73 msg me 02:06, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Contradictory statements

The article states both that "Newcomers to the series include the Inklings from Splatoon and Ridley from the Metroid series." Then goes on to say "Due to the large number of returning fighters, the game will not feature many newcomers to the roster, unlike the previous games in the series." The former statement is true while the latter is false. This should be fixed.50.38.206.216 (talk) 05:08, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

The "will not feature many newcomers" quote is directly out of the announcement video. The key word is "many" - each previous game had roughly 12-16 new fighters. Two announced fighters is nowhere close, so it is not contradictory. --Masem (t) 05:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. The wording is meant to convey that there will be less newcommers than usual, which is true, per a quote straight from Sakurai himself. Both are true, and they're not contradictory. Sergecross73 msg me 12:37, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Sakurai's Famitsu column on Ultimate

Here is a translation of Sakurai's Famitsu column vol. 557, "Smash is Special" - part 1, which is about Ultimate's concept. The translation was done by Source Gaming and I'm aware they don't count as a "official source" here (unless I'm mistaken) but I just wanted to point out a few important notes in his column.

• The project plan for Ultimate was finished in December 2015, when DLC for Smash Bros. 4 was being developed. Gathering staff for Ultimate was done later.
• Sakurai was faced with the decision to create a completely new game system, or build off of pre-existing ones. He went with the latter becuase if he didn't, we might have ended up with only a third of the fighters we have now.
• The team increased the overall speed of the game, but only by an amount so it wouldn’t be alienating to people unfamiliar with Smash Bros.

155.4.135.92 (talk) 18:09, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Here is part 2 of "Smash is Special". Again, translation and credits goes to Source Gaming.

• With the exception of HAL Laboratory continuing to work on Melee after the original Smash Bros., the studio and team for each game has always been built from the ground up and this usually takes a considerable amount of preparation time. But this time, however, Bandai Namco came back, which was a huge advantage and also one of the reasons the team were able to bring back every single character.
• While Sakurai doesn't rule out the possibility entirely, he don't think the idea of bringing back every single character will happen again.
• One of the reasons for the above note is because it drastically increases the cost of development. Even attempting to do this requires a lot of time, personnel, and money.
• Nintendo is the one who decides to make Smash Bros. games, and if they ask Sakurai to oversee its development, then he feels obligated to make it his top priority regardless of the consequences.

155.4.135.92 (talk) 03:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

possible upcoming character likeNegan

I'm confident that negan is already licensed and Negan is a character that is coming to Tekken 7, maybe on super smash too — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.148.191.199 (talk • contribs)

Wikipedia doesn't cover personal speculation on things like this, so it really has no business being in the article, or even really being discussed here. Sorry. Sergecross73 msg me 12:49, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the new addition of Chrom and his current Echo Fighter status.

It is stated in this article that Chrom, as an Echo Fighter, is based on Roy. And while this does seem to largely hold true when looking at his moveset, there are some notable exceptions, the biggest one being that Chrom is shown using Aether, which is a move that comes from Ike, and not Roy. Should we revise this article to reflect this? NightmareSnake (talk) 19:36, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Do sources note this, or is it just fan investigation stuff? I'm kind of leaning no, - this seems to be kind of going into the minuscule detail stuff that fan wiki's cover, not so much general encyclopedia stuff, which is more broad-strokes about the subject rather than WP:GAMEGUIDE type material. Sergecross73 msg me 20:35, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Understandable. There may be a source or two that notes this specifically, but I am not in a position to check at the moment. However, as time goes on, this piece of information may become more apparent. This is an announcement that is only a few hours old at this point, after all. NightmareSnake (talk) 20:38, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

It is known that in general, Echo Fighters can have slight variances in movesets, so we don't need to cover any specific difference, just that they exist. --Masem (t) 20:55, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2018

At the end of the paragraph referring to Assist trophies, add at the very end, "Waluigi, a character from many Mario sports games, is also a well known assist trophy. I'll be honest, my request isn't necessary. I just love Waluigi. Dan the panini man (talk) 19:43, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Unsourced and unneeded detail. See WP:GAMEGUIDE. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 20:16, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2018

Change "Limited edition" to "limited edition" - remove captalization. In addition, change "Unlimited edition" to "standard edition" AxoIotI (talk) 22:00, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

 Partly done: I made the capitalization request -- thanks! The source mentioned a different term, so I used that one instead. Dolotta (talk) 19:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2018

Add Category:Nintendo Switch eShop games to the list of categories. 136.181.195.25 (talk) 14:52, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done Codldammit (talk) 17:06, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2018

Add the navboxes "Competitive Super Smash Bros." and "Bandai Namco crossover games" to the page. 136.181.195.25 (talk) 13:34, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

 Partly done: Added Template:Bandai Namco crossover games but I did not add Template:Competitive Super Smash Bros. because this article is not in that navbox. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:33, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I will note it is probably a bit too early to talk about SSBU as a competitive title, since its not out yet and we don't know if it will be accepted like that (I'm sure it will, but NOT#CRYSTAL...) We can add it once the game is out and clearly has hit the competitive gaming scene. --Masem (t) 14:50, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Please look again. Ultimate is already in the Competitive Smash navbox, at the top with the rest of the series entries between "3DS/Wii U" and "Project M". -- 136.181.195.25 (talk) 14:52, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

It shouldn't be, the game isn't even out yet. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 16:10, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I mean, it's in a section labeled "Super Smash Bros. Series", which is *is* a part of, so it should be there. And while it's true the game isn't out yet, tournaments using the demo build have already been held and prominent members of the community have already begun discussions about potential viability of new stages and features, so the groundwork is already being laid. I don't think it's an unreasonable addition, even at this early stage. -- 136.181.195.25 (talk) 16:18, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

True. I have more of an issue with us not just having a single Smash Bros. navbox where all of the links can go. It's not like either of them are huge and need to be split for readability reasons. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:04, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

 Not done, per WP:CRYSTAL. Once it has been released and is being used widely/officially (not in a demo and not just the subject of discussions) then it can be added then. There is no rush. Fish+Karate 11:45, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

8 players?

Up to 8 players like from SSBB? 124.106.137.3 (talk) 21:50, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

• WP:NOTAFORUM, but I'm pretty sure this was already confirmed in one of the Directs. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 00:56, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

This is probably not a place to just ask questions, but I have 2 points. First, 8-player Smash did not originate in SSBB, it originated in SSB for Wii U. Secondly, yes, the new game has already been confirmed to have this feature. NightmareSnake (talk) 13:57, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I think the OP meant that support for 8 players came up after Brawl, not that it originated there. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 19:09, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2018

Change, "Ultimate was announced at E3 2018", to, "Ultimate was announced in March 2018, with its title being revealed at E3 2018." Coconutbreaker (talk) 18:51, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

 Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 19:09, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Number of fighters

With today's Direct, which led off with the reveal of the last two base game fighters, they specifically said there were 74 fighters - clearly they are counting the Trainer as one fighter, rather than 3 since you cannot individually select his Pokemon to fight (though nothing stops you from using one and only one Pokemon during a fight). The reason that the Characters table lists 76 is because in some past games, those Pokemon were individual fighters, so they are given separate rows on that table. I agree that there should be consistency but nearly all sources affirm that there's 74 base fighters (or 72 before this Direct). --Masem (t) 19:14, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

That’s been my observance of it so far as well. 74 total now. One more coming with the Pirhana Plant free DLC after launch. And a full 80 after the 5 DLC characters. Sergecross73 msg me 19:42, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

I’m personally in favor of us sticking to our own counting of the roster where we count the actual number of playable characters across all games and not just the number of characters on the character select screen in one game. Also, we do not abide by Nintendo’s ordering number system for Ultimate as it is considered too promotional so why are we giving it a pass in this instance? It seems like we are giving too much precedence to how one game in the series counts the roster. Nintendo themselves have flip flopped on the issue as in this case they are counting Echo Fighters separately towards the larger roster number when they were not counted separately before. For Melee and Brawl, Shiek and Zero Suit Samus are counted separately even though they were also just alternate forms, same as Pokémon Trainer, including the fact that Charizard has actually been a separate character in prior games. redsparta ••• talk to me 23:56, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

It's not just the game, its also was RSes say. What we really should do is make it clear that ivysaur/etc. are not playable characters in the last two games, but appear as part of Pokemon Trainer. Same issue with Echo Fighters in previous games, they technically aren't playable characters. --Masem (t) 04:23, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Echoes still count as playable characters independent of the promotional numbering; note that in previous games, Lucina and Dark Pit were simply treated as characters with no label. Most RSes seem to treat echoes as part of the total number as well, despite the label. Whatever decision is made, however, it should also be reflected on the Smash Characters page. I'm personally of the opinion that we should continue to treat Pokémon Trainer as three characters instead of just one, but that's just my opinion. -- 136.181.195.25 (talk) 17:10, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

For all intents and purposes Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are each individual characters with Pokémon Trainer being no more than an avatar representing them for the purposes of character selection. In the Direct, before revealing the two new fighters, Sakurai himself mentioned both ways of counting it (either 72 OR 74; 74 / 76 with the newly announced fighters) so the way I see it, either is correct, it just depends whether you are counting each individual fighter or number of slots on the character select screen. redsparta ••• talk to me 03:08, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

I feel like we should stay in line with what third party sources say, which has been pretty consistently due to Nintendo’s actual numbering of characters for this iteration of the series. (74+1+5=80) I don’t really care what’s been done at other articles, “go by what sources generally say” is almost always the mantra we go by on Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 03:52, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Looking at it now, I think the existing footnote acknowledging the Pokémon Trainer interpretation is a good compromise, as both could technically be considered "accurate" character counts. Best to leave it as is. -- 136.181.195.25 (talk) 18:15, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Adventure Mode?

should someone put in info regarding the recently revealed story mode? Visokor (talk) 06:46, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Someone did already. -- 136.181.195.25 (talk) 17:03, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 November 2018

Please change the last paragraph of the Playable Characters section to the following:

"Six additional characters will be added through downloadable content following the game's launch. Each of these characters will come with an additional stage and music tracks. The first of these characters, the Piranha Plant enemy from the Mario series, will be available for free to those who purchase and register the game with a My Nintendo account before January 31, 2019, later being made available for general purchase. The other five characters, yet to be revealed, can either be purchased individually or as part of a Fighter's Pass."

This rewrite is to make it clear that Piranha Plant also comes with a stage and music like the other characters, as indicated in Nintendo's official press release, as many outlets have glossed over that fact. 136.181.195.25 (talk) 17:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

I read through the source, and I can't quite find the part where it says so. I see that it will be a DLC, but it doesn't mention that Piranha Plant music/stage will be part of the early purchase bonus. Juxlos (talk) 18:21, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

You're right, actually. It seems the source has been updated since I last looked at it, and the part about Piranha Plant coming with a stage and music has been removed. In that case, I rescind my edit request, though some mention should probably still be made that Piranha Plant will be a general purchase later, as the current phrasing makes it sound like the character won't be available at all after January 31. -- 136.181.195.25 (talk) 18:39, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Native American

change ((Native American)) to ((Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Native American))

 Done —KuyaBriBri^Talk 20:11, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Listed as "2019 video game"

Hello! I'm very new to Wikipedia editing, as I joined just now because I noticed this, but Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is listed as a 2019 video game, but it's going to be released on December 7, 2018.Pierson D (talk) 02:48, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Where is this happening? Sergecross73 msg me 02:52, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

The category of the game (like Hamburger-food).Pierson D (talk) 03:53, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

There is seriously no place on this article that puts it into 2019. The only time 2019 is mentioned in the source is for the DLC. --Masem (t) 04:10, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

I’m not seeing it either... Sergecross73 msg me 04:25, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

I figured out what they are referring to. On this page [[1]] if you type the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate in the large search bar at the bottom the text on the drop down menu calls it a 2019 video game. Obviously an error somehere is causing this but I have no idea what it is.--67.68.28.220 (talk) 06:56, 10 November 2018 (UTC)