User talk:Begoon: Difference between revisions

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Committed identity: 915321be7c61be8250681037a8936e84738cd7f6e6c7cb1f72e4346b72ff561996991c4fd70bb9ff0de32a09edfcf5ade684bacc375d80b31be3794f6b2f1b1f is a SHA-512 commitment to this user's real-life identity.

Ha

why? That thread was pretty inoffensive and highly amusing....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:14, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I know, but after linking it I noticed it was in a "members only" subforum, and it was off-topic really, on an RfA. It's stuck in my mind and always makes me smile, and perhaps I shouldn't have removed it, on reflection, but you'd be (un)surprised by the number of people who will have seen and enjoyed it anyway, just from watchlists etc. -- Begoon 13:04, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd forgotten about it, and it made me chuckle reading it again...I was trying to find a youtube clip where Marcel Wave (Kenny Everett) strips and reveals Kenny, saying "Yes!! It was me ll the time!!!"...but alas I couldn't find it...so that joke fell flat (but still enjoyed watching some old Kenny Everett filmclips) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:37, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cas, I remember that, and I can't find it either. Just some unrelated shit with David Essex. Has it really been over 20 years? Ouch. God rest him. - Begoon 03:45, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Or...."Is Elton John his real name?"....(other guy) "Is Elton John whose real name? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:22, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cas, I only just glanced at this again, and I finally noticed you used 3 different sigs in 3 posts. Unobservant, moi? Well played. (I think...) - Begoon 10:59, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Purely accidental. Second one was a typo, I have no idea how. Third one was just one extra set of italics. All three were originally signed with the 4 tildes....so not clever at all :P Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:13, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Damn. Never mind. At least it was all done in the best possible taste... (crosses legs..). -- Begoon 12:24, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

linky thing...

	The Barnstar of Good Humor
	For this reference to one of my favourite films - tragically, you can't thank revision deleted diffs. (So, did you turn pro with that belly button trick, Ned?) Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 19:45, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Ritchie. True story: A few years ago I was re-watching the film on a satellite channel when my wife came home. "Jeez," she said, "is that movie on again? I don't understand how you can keep watching it over and over." To her credit, when I collapsed in a helpless heap of laughter she did realise why. Anyway, a side effect of all this has been that I now have "I Got You Babe" stuck in my head... -- Begoon 00:49, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Raven?

I haven't listened to the song, and I'm not about to, but given that raven on your user page... Drmies (talk) 14:50, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's a random "Picture of the day" between 2009 and now, so everyone gets a different image. I never saw the raven you got. The video is 4 minutes - I managed one. -- Begoon 00:55, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, really? Ha, that's cool. As for the video, I managed 15 seconds, that's all. BTW I'm seeing a lot of Doug Jones signs, so it may well be that Moore gets a real run for his money. Drmies (talk) 02:11, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

...6 weeks later...

I doff my cap to your powers of prediction. I hope you troubled the bookies with that one. I also hope your shoulder recovers quickly and fully. Take care (and Bourbon). -- Begoon 08:58, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks--but I had Moore by five points. Alabama surprised many of us; it was redeemed, yet again, by the African-American vote, and especially that of black women. Some of us should start to show our appreciation, maybe. Later! Drmies (talk) 05:08, 17 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I would probably revert that last pic...

...While I am in favour of fucking da category police (in the non-sexual way) I am generally not in favour of singling out specific editors for visual mockery. There is a line where humour crosses over into meanness. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:46, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You're probably right. I have nothing against either Mike or the Judge. Done. -- Begoon 09:56, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK, but i love Mike, inna kinda manly way. -Roxy the dog. bark 10:01, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. The real shame is that those {{Multiple image}} templates are a pain to set up and align... -- Begoon 10:08, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for listening, humourous as it may be, it does fall on the wrong side of the line. Fortunately its closed now, I had my own derailing set for later anyway if it stayed open. But I expect the issue will crop up again. (especially since I just reverted the changes to my own userpage) Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:57, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not actually sure it is fortunate that it's closed. I have a bit of a history here, with Gerda particularly, and if it's pissing off people like you and her then maybe it does need to be brought to a head sooner rather than later? (see [1]) -- Begoon 12:14, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't piss me off as such. I don't care enough about the internal gnome bickering over wanted:categories. I don't care enough about people messing with my userpage to do more than hit undo. Granted if people start edit-warring on my userpage about it, they will get a very different and unpleasant (for them) response. Did you have that police dog pic to hand btw, or was it a lucky google? Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:40, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, I did a Commons search. -- Begoon 14:12, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I found two things: a way of having red cats that has been tolerated by the cats ~~police~~ watchful eyes (my user page, section boxes, and even yours Begoon, sort of), and a great way to make stunning galleries of images nicely aligned, seen on Monterey Bay Aquarium. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:36, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I know about "gallery mode=packed heights=..." - it's cool, but didn't really do what I wanted here, because I wanted the thumbnail style. I also have a template - User:Begoon/RCbox - which was inspired by you, years ago. I hardly ever use it, but it seems it can also contain a red cat... (well, orange really, but that works here too...) This:[2] was an awesome edit. Thank you. -- Begoon 00:52, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Batman

Luckily, we're in tip-top condition

Since you thanked me for this edit, you probably noticed my edit summary. That's good. I did mean it as a salute to your own comment. :-) [Bishonen and all her socks shake hands with Batman, Robin, and Begoon.] Bishonen | talk 22:05, 1 January 2018 (UTC).[reply]

"Who knows," Bish? "This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single service ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuously, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." [3]. -- Begoon 22:14, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you!!

Hi Begoon. Thank you so much for all your work on File:William Foster Nye.jpg. Yesterday I went back to the article to make a few copyedits and thought "Hmmmm. That portrait looks a lot better than it did before." I clicked on the image and saw your painstaking restoration—not to mention your addition of the signature. Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 08:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. There was also a higher resolution JP2 version of the advertisement image at the archive.org source (in a 700 Mb download of all the raw scans from that book), so I've downloaded and extracted that, cleaned up the creases, blemishes etc, and replaced the smaller version. I also created a greyscaled version, at File:Nye Oils advertisement, 1894 (greyscaled).jpg, which I think I personally prefer, since it seems "cleaner" and I feel the images look better. I haven't replaced the article image with the greyscaled version because I think you should make the decision whether or not to do that. On the one hand, I feel it's justified, because all it does is remove the colour of the paper on which the advert just happened to be printed in the book that happened to be scanned - on the other hand it is that colour in the original scan... So, you can use whichever version you prefer. Or, just let me know if there's anything you'd like altering about either version (for instance, the greyscale version could very easily be made a bit "whiter", but it does tend to get a bit "glaring" if you go too far). Cheers. -- Begoon 07:24, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Brilliant! I've now substituted your grey-scale version in the article. I agree about not making it "whiter"—it would be a bit glaring. It's funny. I wrote the article when I saw all the brouhaha at ANI. But as often happens, that led me down more paths and resulted in the cemetery where Nye is buried, and William H. Whitfield, a very interesting chap who's also buried there. I'm about to start yet another article on the wacky Spiritualist retreat, of which Nye was a prominent supporter. Feel free to stalk any or all of these if you think the images could be improved. Once again, thank you for all your help, Voceditenore (talk) 10:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wow! My every wish was your command. You fixed Captain Whitfield and Mr. Nakahama too! Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:38, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

		The Original Barnstar
		For your wonderful photograph restorations, above and beyond the call of duty! Voceditenore (talk) 15:38, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Moons of Saturn 2007

Moons of Saturn 2007.jpg

An OTRS customer noticed that File:Moons of Saturn 2007.jpg has some text cropping for Enceladus, likely due to the image for Dione. I'm not sure how the original text should read, so I thought I'd let you know about the issue. Primefac (talk) 17:27, 5 March 2018 (UTC) (please ping on reply)[reply]

Heh - I thought you'd be right, but it wasn't lost when I replaced Dione - it was never there on any version we had - initial upload.

I could fix froz? -> frozen., but I don't know, and can't reliably guess what geologica??? should be. Possibly "geological past.", but that's a guess (and now I think more, maybe froz? -> frozen in the past.)
There doesn't seem to be anything else missing, but without an original you see my dilemma...
(I can even see that there could be words between cause...faults, "some of the" or "the largest" or "the squidgiest" etc... if you get my drift...)

But I'll sleep on it - I'm thinking a best, sensible, educated guess would be better than leaving it, and chances are I'll do something to it tomorrow. -- Begoon 18:44, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I uploaded a new version, using the original NASA text I eventually found at: [4] and [5].

It was "geologically recent past.", "frozen eons ago." and "cause the sides of the faults," so my guesses were close (except the last), but no cigar...

There are a few things about this image I would improve, given access to the original sources, as I remarked over 6 years ago when I did the original replacement of Dione with the correct image, as requested at the Graphics Lab. It's such a nice image in general, though, that unless those sources do become available I don't want to "hack" at it and potentially degrade what we have. -- Begoon 04:46, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the last upload reverted to the old version? Or is it just a cache thing and it's not showing yet. Primefac (talk) 13:40, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I see the latest version, with the additions described above (there were 2 intermediate "guess" versions before I found the NASA text). Latest version = 4.5 Mb, which is bigger than all previous. Must be your cache (or a cache)... -- Begoon 13:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yup. Just me. Thanks for updating it! Primefac (talk) 13:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your script

User:Begoon/addUploadsLink

I tried installing your user uploads script on my meta page, only to find out that it's a hardcoded link to the English Wikipedia. It'd be pretty sweet if you could make it global instead :) ~★ nmaia ^d 08:40, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

NMaia - try it now, I think it should work. I had to also exclude commons where the link would be redundant, and change (delay until page fully loaded) the loading method because meta, at least, was running the script before the toolbox links were fully loaded. Let me know if you have any issues. -- Begoon 10:06, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So fast! Thanks! I'll be sure to report if anything strange happens. ~★ nmaia ^d 10:13, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What is particularly nice is that, for instance, at fr.wiki, even though my script links to Special:ListFiles (in English), Mediawiki goes to the right place Spécial:Liste_des_fichiers automatically. I initially thought the different language Special Page names might be a show-stopper, but no, it just works. -- Begoon 10:50, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh by the way, it just occurred to me that you can probably fetch the internationalized strings Commons is using to add to your script, to have instant universal internationalization. ~★ nmaia ^d 11:19, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I might look at that when I have a bit more time, and see how easy it would be. -- Begoon 11:26, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:IFIHAVETOPULLTHISCAROVERYOULLBOTHBESORRY

linky thing for the archive, cos I hate it when I can't find these things later...

You should create that, or find a place where it can be redirected.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 14:01, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. It only sprang to mind because I actually had a couple of car trips recently where the poking, whining and squabbling coming from the back seat sounded very much like that "discussion". -- Begoon 14:10, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A beer for you!

I was reading your conversation of the Eiffel Tower page (the thread about its lack of style); thanks for the link to File:MonteAmiataVettaCroce.JPG. Truly the world is full of wonders. TheLongTone (talk) 13:35, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's awesome, isn't it? Remember, always that "Most are not exact replicas, though there are many like it."

It just goes to show that pleasure and wonder can be found even in a conversation born from grumpiness and negativity... Ciao. -- Begoon 06:36, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round...

archive footage available at: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1013#Flixbus/Ashafir

Why are you so persistent about watching the Flixbus page? "non-notable trivia about booking/timetable issues" how you judge it? You should disclose you affiliation with FlixBus.Ashafir (talk) 11:05, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I can no longer take you seriously. Sorry, I'm sure you're great fun at parties and that sort of thing, but, when it comes to this collaborative encyclopedia writing thing, I just don't think you and I are destined to be soulmates. Best of luck in your future endeavours. -- Begoon 18:41, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A cup of tea for you!

Apologies for my aggressive behavior towards you. While I stay opposite to you in the debate, I repent my unruly violation of a policy. Please kindly accept it and let's have a better spending together! THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 19:06, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ImmortalWizard - thank you for the apology, it is appreciated.
There are a couple of things I feel I should make very clear though, because I'm worried you still don't properly understand.
First of all, it wasn't a policy which you violated - it was at least three of our most central, important core policies: WP:BLP, WP:3RR and WP:Verifiability, and that's without even trying to list any others. I'm not sure you realise how fortunate you were to not be blocked for this behaviour - many editors would just have gone straight to WP:ANEW after your fourth revert (I had a report ready after your fifth), or AN/I even earlier, and you'd now be posting unblock appeals on your talk page rather than cups of tea on mine...
Secondly, we're not on "opposite" sides of any "debate" - I've clearly indicated to you that I have no objection to content inclusion once you have consensus for exactly what to include (if anything) and reliable sources demonstrating lasting notability. Where we differ at the moment is that I (and others) don't view what's been presented as significant enough for inclusion and you do - that's fine, and consensus will decide that, but WP:BLP, WP:3RR and WP:Verifiability are non-negotiable.
What really concerns me is statements like "regarding the my adding of empty section, not sure if that is entirely inappropriate. I chose to at least indicate to readers that a significant story is missing." and I can only repeat what I said in reply to that - if you're not sure that adding the words "Rape accusations" as a big, attention-grabbing heading, with no explanation or reliable source whatsoever to a BLP is a serious infraction of policy then please don't edit any BLPs until you do understand. That you ignored my warnings (and the opinions of at least two other editors) in edit-summaries and edit-warred that "content" back in with summaries like "Theres isnt any rules like that.", really does nothing to reduce my concerns about your lack of proper understanding.
I've now looked at your talk page and its archives, and I noticed that, historically, you haven't been particularly good at taking helpful criticism of your actions on board, preferring to, somewhat pointlessly, "argue the toss" rather than accept correction - the best way you can "apologise" on this occasion is to demonstrate with your future actions that you have honestly understood all of this. -- Begoon 03:08, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Precious anniversary

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:58, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Gerda. You never forget...

Unlike me - Happy 10th anniversary for Friday. -- Begoon 06:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, - I'd forget but have a good list, thanks to those who did it before me. My anniversary of Awesomeness was on Saturday, but only 9 years. Would you please give a reminder next year, because I'd not like to give it to myself? It came a year and a day after joining, and I remember the feeling. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:19, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've put it in my Outlook calendar, with a reminder - if it doesn't happen now you can blame Bill Gates... I'm not sure if I'll send it myself or get someone else to do it - that can be your surprise... You certainly deserve that, and more. -- Begoon 06:29, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nice idea. Yours is supposed to come on 5 July, you - or someone else - can simply copy then ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:37, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Heh - we'll see... -- Begoon 06:49, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"fake" SVGs

Hello!

Thanks for editing all my SVGs. I opened the SVGs you said were fake in Inkscape and it seemed as only the trophies in the File:Svenska Cupen logo.svg and File:Svenska Cupen (women) logo.svg were raster, is that correct? The trophies were the only part that didn't show any nodes anyway. About the File:IFK Uddevalla logo.svg though, every part does show nodes so I don't understand what's raster in that logo. Can you please explain? Thanks!Jonteemil (talk) 06:32, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries - yes, I think it's just the trophy - nevertheless, redrawing that as vector was a bigger task than I have time for right now, particularly as it's a logo, so accuracy is crucial. I think that's better as png until/unless we get hold of a decent vector of the trophy, which is pretty central to the image.

As for File:IFK Uddevalla logo.svg - yes, that's a pure vector - all I did was reduce the nominal dimensions, per NFC and tidy the code a bit. Where did I imply that one is not a vector? You may be confusing it with File:IFK Uddevalla Futsal logo.svg which is basically nothing but raster/bitmap in an svg "wrapper". It looks quite smooth even at relatively large rescales because it's a 4000px bitmap so you won't get "jaggies" unless you scale it larger - but it's a bitmap nonetheless. -- Begoon 07:20, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, yeah, you're completely correct, my bad, I meant the futsal logo. Is there an easy way to change the file format? Because File:2015 CONCACAF Women's U-20 Championship.svg and File:2017 CONCACAF Futsal Club Championship logo.svg are raster as well. Is the best way just to download them, open them in Inkscape and saving as PNG?Jonteemil (talk) 07:33, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah - just use export-png in Inkscape (which is a bit fussy because first you have to use Export-as to set a filename (and watch out for the .svg.png double extension) - then you need to actually do the export(button with the tick)). I generally would do that, then rescale them in photoshop if necessary). -- Begoon 07:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for your help! I exported the two files mentioned above as well as File:International Korfball Federation logo.svg as PNGs. You may delete the SVG versions if you have those tools.Jonteemil (talk) 08:29, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking care of that. I tagged them {{di-orphaned fair use}} - they'll be deleted as CSD:F5 orphans in 7 days - there's no real rush. Thanks also for updating the logos for all the articles you have done - they are greatly improved by your efforts. Cheers. -- Begoon 08:39, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My pleasure! By the way, do you think you can take a look at File:Landskrona BoIS logo.svg? I removed the redundant invisible part of the file but it didn't go as planned, see for example Landskrona BoIS and sv:Landskrona BoIS, it doesn't generate correctly.Jonteemil (talk) 09:09, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jonteemil, if you mean the space to left and right in the infobox, that's just because the file is narrower than the infobox width when it has been scaled. To see what I mean, look at this revision where I force the image to take up the full width (apart from the "untouchable" CSS margins) by making it unreasonably big... If you mean something else you'll have to explain because I'm having a dumb day...

Incidentally, in most infoboxes at least here at en.wp you don't need (and shouldn't use) the [[File:xxx.xxx|xxx]] mark-up - you just use the filename without the File: prefix.

If you want a caption there's usually a |caption= parameter or similar, and there's also usually |image_size= or similar for image size. The use of the latter is discouraged though, because it overrides default thumbnail sizes in people's preferences - so you should only force a size if unavoidable. If |image_upright= or |upright= or similar is available, that's preferable if you absolutely have to make images display differently because of aspect ratio (see Help:Pictures#Upright_images) - but many infoboxes don't have it. In general just leaving the size out is best.

If you can't find the parameters you have to look at the documentation for the particular infobox - in this case {{Infobox football club}}. Sadly, they have not been standardised... -- Begoon 09:55, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I am very confused. It looks good now, at least on my phone. On my computer it still looks weird. Perhaps it has something to do with cache. Look the difference between phone and computer on sv:Landskrona BoIS here. On my computer it looks so oblong(?) if that's the correct word. If it does has to do with cache I guess eventually it will look good on my computer as well? this page is also different on my computer and phone, see. Anyhow I think it will look good on my computer too eventually.Jonteemil (talk) 09:58, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely cache. 100% absolute certainty. Mobile cache isn't updated as often as desktop, and mobile phones themselves store cached data for longer to avoid expensive mobile data costs. If none of the tricks here: Wikipedia:Bypass your cache work, and WP:PURGE doesn't help, and you have tried everything you know to get your phone to drop its cache (sometimes involving a hard reboot), you might just have to wait - but that is, no question about it, some cache somewhere between the server and your phone/desktop. -- Begoon 10:06, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, cheers!Jonteemil (talk) 10:09, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's weird that your desktop seems slower to update than your phone, but that could just be because you never looked at it before on your phone - so it's not cached there at all. They all look fine to me (except your imgur snap obviously) It's the thumbnails that are cached, and I know there have been some technical issues slowing down cache updates in the last day or so. -- Begoon 10:12, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the cache on my computer and it all looks good now. Mindblown every time something works. Thanks again!Jonteemil (talk) 10:20, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. Thumbnail caches can be infuriating - especially when you make a lot of image alterations. Very occasionally a file/particular thumbnail gets completely 'stuck' - it's only happened to me a couple of times - once we ended up forcing a 221px thumbnail until the 220px one cleared itself several days!!!! later - and at least once nothing worked except uploading with a new filename and deleting the old one. But those are very, very rare and extreme 'bugs' - usually (99.999999% of the time) bypassing your cache and/or purging is enough. -- Begoon 10:26, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Huh, that must have been annoying. Speaking of something else, the V and K in this logo seems to be raster but everything is vector, can it still be uploaded as an SVG or does it have to be in PNG format?Jonteemil (talk) 12:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jonteemil - there are no rasters in that svg - it's pure vector

the "V" is

<p><polygon clip-path="url(#SVGID_32_)" fill="#231F20" points="98.65,31.171 111.358,31.171 91.38,88.032 79.816,88.032 
	60.037,31.171 73.113,31.171 85.822,74.328 		"/>
<polygon clip-path="url(#SVGID_32_)" fill="none" stroke="#231F20" stroke-width="6.0893" stroke-miterlimit="3.864" points="
	98.65,31.171 111.358,31.171 91.38,88.032 79.816,88.032 60.037,31.171 73.113,31.171 85.822,74.328 		"/>

and the "K" is

<polygon clip-path="url(#SVGID_32_)" fill="#231F20" points="383.639,31.171 395.531,31.171 395.531,54.599 417.867,31.171 
	433.48,31.171 409.773,54.599 434.693,88.032 419.16,88.032 401.301,63.19 395.531,69.018 395.531,88.032 383.639,88.032 		"/>
<polygon clip-path="url(#SVGID_32_)" fill="none" stroke="#231F20" stroke-width="6.0893" stroke-miterlimit="3.864" points="
	383.639,31.171 395.531,31.171 395.531,54.599 417.867,31.171 433.48,31.171 409.773,54.599 434.693,88.032 419.16,88.032 
	401.301,63.19 395.531,69.018 395.531,88.032 383.639,88.032 		"/>

-- Begoon 14:23, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Huh, they didn't trigger any nodes on Inkscape, that's why I suspected they were raster. I don't know why no nodes showed up, thats really odd.Jonteemil (talk) 14:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

They're not paths as such, they are polygons (shapes) - see https://design.tutsplus.com/tutorials/quick-tip-fun-tricks-with-inkscapes-polygon-tool--vector-14959

If you don't see any handles or control points then you can select one and use Path > Object to Path from the menu.

Embedded rasters are easy to recognise if you open an svg in a text editor like Notepad++ - you'll see something like:

<image xlink:href="data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgEASABIAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAAHgAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAQMA EAMCAwYAAewfAALx6gAGJzv/2wCEABALCwsMCxAMDBAXDw0PFxsUEBAUGx8XFxcXFx8eFxoaGhoX Hh4jJSclIx4vLzMzLy9AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEABEQ8PERMRFRISFRQRFBEUGhQWFhQaJhoaHBoa JjAjHh4eHiMwKy4nJycuKzU1MDA1NUBAP0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQP/CABEID6APoAMBIgACEQEDEQH/ xAD0AAEAAwADAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQYHAQMEAgEBAAMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEBQIBEAABBAIA BAYABAYCAwEBAAMCAQMEBQAGEDBAESBQYBITFCEzFQdwMSIyNRaAIyQ2FyU0kLAmEQACAQECBgoP BQUHBAIDAQEBAgMEABEhMUFREiIgQGFxgZGhsTITEDBQYMHRQlJicpIjQxQFgqKywjTSM1NzJHDh Y4OTo7OA8MMV8ePi02R0sBIAAQICBQoFBAEFAQEBAQEBAQACESEQMDFBUSBAUGFxgZESIjKhsdFS A8FCYnJgcOGCkhMz8aKQ8FP/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQAAANAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOs7H k6OvJJDdPXk+rXT1za1P6/V0Ub468vigdfvmhs6+TR2bcetKZoeaWzQaWzXl7pLOPrxorPOwv6h/ fnt5Uvs59uCqd3iyoDu56mUb38++t19nPoAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA4OXk8PfMyq/hk5uzPPFJxqHVk/RJzqfkzZ3zfvJTHfNp81fd8 y3m8Tvzt6jrkPQAA+j5d/wB+e+V7ezz2OSf14ikvz4h0yIZMiGTHBEJX59RiR6/Xier4986H18++ AAAO3qePb6Ylz1YPTVnHtz9dBcdaT68rcdbB24338da6y/2x9aGpPuj7tCG90fXrcc8dAAAAAAAA  .... lots of unreadable encoded binary data - usually several screenfuls like this...

That's from File:IFK Uddevalla Futsal logo.svg above, with some bits trimmed. Vector data will look like proper xml code, like the polygons above. -- Begoon 14:54, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Aha, thanks for the knowledge!Jonteemil (talk) 07:15, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

edit break

Zero raster

Hello again! How do you identify what part of a vector file that’s raster? For example the logo for A3 Basket on page 6 of https://doc-0c-5k-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/pvp69trs9r6b9ml1b59m5g8kkmh93uho/fkl7ul3q072cuit31blv4jmnikouoivt/1568044800000/11838691802533371934/15330211272914938303/1mdd5Z4DTM8n5nhBQk6NCZXL2JiSJSD1n?e=download&nonce=ebg3ud78iu1po&user=15330211272914938303&hash=l5d0geihj1s85bcirbpc5b5vaih5b13j seems completely vector, yet Notepad++ finds several png and jpg images. I don’t know how this can be.Jonteemil (talk) 16:36, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jonteemil, "Access to doc-0c-5k-docs.googleusercontent.com was denied" so I can't open that link. There are a couple of possibilities for what you're seeing:

They might be used for gradient-like/texture effects - Adobe Illustrator often uses bitmaps for that if you're not careful
They might be bitmaps which were used to trace from, set to "display:none" in a 'hidden' layer so they don't show in the svg

In the first case sometimes the effect is easy to recreate, so they can be removed - sometimes they are so complex you either have to leave them in or go to png instead. In the second case they can be removed since they are invisible anyway. I can't say which is the case here because I can't see the file. -- Begoon 21:39, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add - if you want to experiment, you can make a copy of the file and just try deleting the <image...> tags with their encoded base64 binary data in Notepad++ one by one, saving as a 'test' svg and seeing what, if anything changes when you look at the modified svg. You have to be careful not to remove anything else, or you'll just break the svg.

Another quick and dirty trick is to put a copy of the suspect svg in a new, empty folder somewhere, open it with Inkscape and save as PDF in the same folder, then open that document with Inkscape. Uncheck "embed images", in the (second?) dialog when opening and all the pngs/jpegs should be extracted into that folder so you can see what they are. (Make sure you do this in a new, empty folder, because for Illustrator effects and the like there can be dozens of bitmaps and if they get thrown all over a folder like your desktop you'll curse the cleanup task...)

If you want me to see the file without email/uploading to other sites, you can upload it (upload a new version of this file...) briefly to Commons:File:Test.svg then revert that file to the 'Test Card' image straight away for other users and let me know you did that, then I can get it from the file history. -- Begoon 22:05, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here’s the link you should be avle to open.Jonteemil (talk) 22:22, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jonteemil, Ah - that's only the "drop shadow" they've used behind the logo to give it definition when superimposed on the picture in the pdf - probably an Adobe Acrobat effect and not really even part of the logo. If you look at http://www.svenskabasketligan.se/ it's not there at all (http://basketliganherr.se/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SBL-kopia.png). In my opinion removing that is fine, so I've done so - File:Basketligan logo.svg. -- Begoon 22:40, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn’t really meaning the league logo but, yeah, I guess that has raster in it as well. The logo I meant was A3 Basket which you’ll find on page 6.Jonteemil (talk) 22:53, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some sort of shading effect - Not 100% certain precisely what it is - probably native to Illustrator, because, while Inkscape does, indeed add rasters, Illustrator imported it without any rasters and without visually changing anything I could see, just adding some clip-paths - and, as I'm sure Mr Spock once said (and if he didn't, he should have) - "a difference that makes no difference is no difference" - so File:A3 Basket logo.svg -- Begoon 23:27, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and I just noticed - if you'd taken the "league" logo from page 2 it has no shadow there.... -- Begoon 23:35, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Brilliant, awesome, great, positive words! Thanks a lot, btw, you can’t remove rasters in Inkscape, just Illustrator?Jonteemil (talk) 23:46, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, you always ask questions with complicated answers. Sometimes an image created in Illustrator and embedded in a pdf (both Adobe products) use texture-mapping or gradient shading, or other effects that Illustrator can render as vector but Inkscape doesn't understand, so it does that. It's a cross-compatibility thing, and it's only really with conversion to/from pdf you'll see the issue much. I have both so I'll always try both if there is an "issue". If it's really a raster effect then no, Illustrator won't "convert" it either, but you get these weird hybrids (like Spock, funnily enough) which Inkscape/Illustrator treat differently. For true raster effects you can only try to manually recreate them with gradients etc, or give up and settle for png if it's impossible to do faithfully. Tiny bitmaps I'll sometimes leave in an svg if they don't bloat it too much and scale ok at reasonable sizes.

One of the problems diagnosing pdf <=> svg 'issues' is that, while svg is an open format, pdf isn't - it's a proprietary (compressed binary?) format owned by Adobe, so it can be a bit of a 'black box' and difficult to peer 'under the hood'. It certainly has at least a few built in 'transition algorithms' between it and Adobe's own Illustrator which can be rather 'opaque' and more than a little confusing/mysterious.

Anyway, what's really important is that Spock did say that in the novel "Spock Must Die!" by James Blish, which I owned as a boy, and that is obviously why I remember it - I don't think he ever said it on screen; the Star Trek Wiki says "Alfred Korzybski (July 3, 1879 - March 1. 1950) was a Human philosopher. He coined the phrase "A difference which makes no difference is no difference."" but most real life searches credit it to William James or to C. S. Peirce. -- Begoon 00:00, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I wasn’t nicknamed Curious George without a reason... :). Thanks again anyway for a good answers, I’ll try not to bother you too much anytime soon xD.Jonteemil (talk) 00:07, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome any time - there's probably a more complete, technical answer to your question, but I'm recounting my experiences there. Conversion of svg to/from pdf is usually straightforward, but there are certainly a few peculiarities in the process and it always pays to check your finished output against a known, good rendering of the image. Cheers. -- Begoon 00:13, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SVG help

Hi there, I saw that you cut File:Iran_Khodro_logo.svg to the content ~~removed the white space~~ just by editing the code. I thought you could tell me how to do it for this logo File:Compuware_company_logo_2018.svg. I am certainly not an svg expert. Sorry if I am bothering you. Masum Reza^📞 14:06, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to cut to the content by changing the height and width parameters value. But it resizes it not removes extra blank spaces. Masum Reza^📞 15:19, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Masumrezarock100, sure, I can talk you through it, but to do it easily you would need a tool like Inkscape, which is free. Don't be fooled by the (editing SVG code) edit summary - sometimes I'll use that to copy/paste code generated in another way.

Anyway, here's a quick run-through:

Download the file
Open it with Inkscape
Choose Edit-Select all in all layers **
- Optionally, to resize:
- In the Transform window, click the Scale tab (Note: If the Transform window isn't visible, Object-Transform will show it)
- From the units pulldown, select px
- Enter your desired width
- Check the box that says scale proportionally
- Click Apply
Click File-Document properties
In the Custom Size window, ensure the units are px
Expand the Resize page to Content section just below that
Click Resize page to drawing or selection
File-Save as SVG
Done...

**at the Edit-Select all in all layers step you may occasionally find that there are elements such as an oversized plain background rectangle or elements deliberately left in but outside the viewport for ease of later editing which you don't want the crop/resize to take account of. If this is the case you have to carefully, manually select all the elements which you do want the crop/resize to take account of, excluding the 'unwanted' objects (or select the 'unwanted' object(s) and Edit-Invert selection if that's easier).

That may sound like a lot of steps, but it's the most straightforward, guaranteed path, and after you've done it a few times it will be second nature.

If you don't want to resize, but just want to crop to the content, you can skip the steps with the extra indent.

As you discovered, you can change overall nominal size with a quick code change, but in this case you want to trim to all the elements, so Inkscape is easier. You can read all about viewbox/viewport sizing in the tutorial here. Cheers. -- Begoon 00:12, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the helpful links and sentences. I've cropped the svg. :) Masum Reza^📞 14:53, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. It looks fine - good job. -- Begoon 20:00, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proper rationale for CONMEBOL logo image

Hi, could you help me to build up a proper rationale for the image? I do not have experience in doing so, and I believe, whether I made a mistake from the beginning or not, that this image is relevant to the Copa América Centenario article, as well as the CONMEBOL article. I'm sorry to make use of your time, but if you could help out, it would be greatly appreciated. Cheers! 3BRBS (talk) 04:28, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You need reliably sourced commentary specifically concerning the logo and it's visual appearance in the article(s). Just adding a caption or a brief mention isn't enough. In other words, you need to find reliable sources which discuss the logo and it's visual appearance in the context of the subject of the article, in sufficient depth that give it context and significance, enough that the reader would be disadvantaged by not having visual context for the image. If you think you can find that, let me know, and I might be able to help you construct something. It needs to be content that would not be considered WP:UNDUE, and which consensus would agree is significant enough that the text should be included in the article regardless of whether the image is, not just something tangentially related used to "shoehorn" the image in. -- Begoon 04:38, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your prompt reply. This threshold seems not met in the CONMEBOL article, where the image used (old CONMEBOL logo) seems sustained just by a cap. This old logo image was probably the main inspiration for believing that the 100th-anniversary logo was as relevant as the old logo. I wonder why the old logo image, having a similar relevance/mention in the page that the one I added in the Copa América Centenario might be submitted to a higher scrutiny base... or maybe the rationale used for the old logo of CONMEBOL be used instead of the one I provided? 3BRBS (talk) 04:59, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

3BRBS, well, you are correct that the other logo appears to similarly fail NFC requirements, so I've tagged that one as "disputed rationale" too. When you "wonder why" the same scrutiny was not being applied the reason is often just that nobody noticed until it was pointed out. My guess is that logo was the "current" one when originally added, so the rationale was valid at that point as the "primary means of identification in the infobox" which is usually permissible for one, current, non-free image - it was probably then moved lower in the article when the new logo superseded it in the infobox by someone who didn't realise the rationale was no longer valid, and nobody noticed since.

Incidentally, if you'd like wider input than just my opinion on how NFC should be interpreted here, you are always free to start a discussion for either or both of these older logos at WP:FFD - a wider range of opinions can often be helpful. -- Begoon 05:22, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, well, your rationale seems fine, understanding that there isn't any other option or valid rationale (I read the page, but couldn't distill out another rationale if there was one). I guess that the only other option at this moment here is to create an article about the history of the CONMEBOL logo, which wasn't needed/possible a couple of years ago, but with an array of at least 2 logos created in the last 2-3 years, added to the variations of the old one, and foreseeing that there are not going to be any major changes in the following years due to the new logo, seems relevant enough to me. Nevertheless I do not have the time to start such an article right now this second, it would be a bit sad to not have the images available for that, but oh well, we'll see. 3BRBS (talk) 17:19, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really understand that logic. If there isn't any relevant commentary on the logos available from reliable sources to put an entry in the existing articles then it's hard to see where the content would come from to create an entire, notable, separate article just about the logos. And if some sourced content is available then it could be placed in the existing articles as discussed above. I'm afraid I don't really follow your thinking. The images, wherever they are contemplated, are still going to have to satisfy all the WP:NFC criteria, and that's the real barrier at this point - thinking about a completely separate article just adds more requirements, because then you're going to need substantial sourced content, and to additionally satisfy WP:GNG -- Begoon 17:30, 29 September 2019 (UTC

University of Westminster

Thank you for replacing the file with a .png file (File:UniWestminster_Coat_of_Arms.png --Aloneinthewild (talk) 09:59, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. It avoids the rectangular white background in the infobox (jpg as a format doesn't permit transparency), so worth doing. -- Begoon 10:06, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is there an easy method to convert from jpg to png? Aloneinthewild (talk) 10:08, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well you can open any jpeg in an image editing program like Photoshop or GIMP and save it as a png. If you want to remove a white or coloured background though, there's some editing involved, because you have to select and delete all the areas you don't want - that can be easy or difficult with varying results depending on the complexity of the image (and your skill/knowledge/familiarity with the tool/process).

However, it's not always a good idea to convert from jpeg to png - particularly for Mediawiki use, because Mediawiki "blurs" thumbnails of some png images - especially those containing "photographic" data. There's also the obvious issue that a png will usually be bigger (sometimes many times bigger) because it's not compressed like a jpeg, so png files take longer to download and use more bandwidth. That's not the big issue it once was, with improving internet speeds, but it can still be significant, especially for large files. Smaller files are obviously more "mobile friendly".

Png is useful because it's lossless, which means you can edit and save a png without quality loss. Jpeg potentially degrades every time you edit and resave because it gets recompressed, and that's a "lossy" process. For that reason if you are going to be editing a file it's always best to work in a png "master" file which you keep, and save the jpeg only when (each time) the editing is done.

The mediawiki 'blurry' png thumbnail issue is annoying, and longstanding. Png is a lossless format, unlike jpg which degrades when edited, so keeping lossless png 'masters' but using a jpg copy for thumbnailing is a workaround. Mediawiki sharpens jpg thumbnails, but not png, often resulting in annoyingly, noticeably 'blurry' png thumbnails by comparison. See c:Commons:Graphic Lab/Photography workshop/Archive/2018#Margaret Thatcher and phabricator:T192744 for more on this issue of 'blurry' png thumbnailing by mediawiki. -- Begoon 10:22, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you keep reverting my edits

Why do you keep reverting all of my edits, there are like a billion Wikipedia users out there but you chose to persistently revert MY edits. Now please stop with this drama or there will be trouble. Thank you. Dino245 (talk) 01:29, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 245: / Line 245: @@
 :: Is there an easy method to convert from jpg to png? [[User:Aloneinthewild|Aloneinthewild]] ([[User talk:Aloneinthewild|talk]]) 10:08, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 :::Well you can open any jpeg in an image editing program like Photoshop or GIMP and save it as a png. If you want to remove a white or coloured background though, there's some editing involved, because you have to select and delete all the areas you don't want - that can be easy or difficult with varying results depending on the complexity of the image (and your skill/knowledge/familiarity with the tool/process).<p>However, it's not always a good idea to convert from jpeg to png - particularly for Mediawiki use, because Mediawiki "blurs" thumbnails of some png images - especially those containing "photographic" data. There's also the obvious issue that a png will usually be bigger (sometimes many times bigger) because it's not compressed like a jpeg, so png files take longer to download and use more bandwidth. That's not the big issue it once was, with improving internet speeds, but it can still be significant, especially for large files. Smaller files are obviously more "mobile friendly".<p>Png is useful because it's lossless, which means you can edit and save a png without quality loss. Jpeg potentially degrades every time you edit and resave because it gets recompressed, and that's a "lossy" process. For that reason if you are going to be editing a file it's always best to work in a png "master" file which you keep, and save the jpeg only when (each time) the editing is done.<p>The mediawiki 'blurry' png thumbnail issue is annoying, and longstanding. Png is a lossless format, unlike jpg which degrades when edited, so keeping lossless png 'masters' but using a jpg copy for thumbnailing is a workaround. Mediawiki sharpens jpg thumbnails, but not png, often resulting in annoyingly, noticeably 'blurry' png thumbnails by comparison. See [[:c:Commons:Graphic Lab/Photography workshop/Archive/2018#Margaret Thatcher]] and phabricator:{{phab|T192744}} for more on this issue of 'blurry' png thumbnailing by mediawiki. --<span style="font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#004d80;"> [[User talk:Begoon|Begoon]]</span> 10:22, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
+== Why do you keep reverting my edits ==
+Why do you keep reverting all of my edits, there are like a billion Wikipedia users out there but you chose to persistently revert MY edits. Now please stop with this drama or there will be trouble. Thank you. [[User:Dino245|Dino245]] ([[User talk:Dino245|talk]]) 01:29, 14 October 2019 (UTC)