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Since this is also a subsidiary of a subsidiaries investment, I don't believe it belongs as the 3rd sentence of the article, but should be listed under international expansion/investments from 2010 onwards. Thoughts? [[User:Theoracle102|Theoracle102]] ([[User talk:Theoracle102|talk]]) 05:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
Since this is also a subsidiary of a subsidiaries investment, I don't believe it belongs as the 3rd sentence of the article, but should be listed under international expansion/investments from 2010 onwards. Thoughts? [[User:Theoracle102|Theoracle102]] ([[User talk:Theoracle102|talk]]) 05:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Glad to see the page is protected. [[User:Theoracle102|Theoracle102]] please stop communicating with me as requested I have no interest or desire to work with the Blackstone PR team. Can you imagine creating a brand new shill account 100% for the purpose of making Blackstone edits, and still denying it is a shill account ROFL. [[Special:Contributions/92.26.183.192|92.26.183.192]] ([[User talk:92.26.183.192|talk]]) 09:26, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 09:26, 8 September 2020

Good articleBlackstone Inc. has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 27, 2009Good article nomineeListed

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Ixom

Is Ixom part of The Blackstone Group? If so, this would need to be added to the article. Schwede66 23:13, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Massive amounts of corporate gibberish

Doing a. Copy edit, but it needs further attention. Given the news attention they've had recently, and their size, some level of detail is appropriate, but this sort of lavish detail about individual PR milestones impedes readability, at a minimum. In particular the table of individual funds may be too much detail, but if we keep it it should have a better reference than a proprietary database. I question whether this constitutes verifiability. Elinruby (talk) 07:06, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Blackstone AUM

Extended content

As of September 30, 2018, Blackstone had $457 billion under management.[1]

  • in the intro section

• Information to be added or removed: Change the Assets Under Management to $472B • Explanation of issue: This has been announced and updated reflecting financials as of 12/31 • References supporting change: [2]

  • in the callout box section

• Information to be added or removed: the subsidiaries should both be removed • Explanation of issue: These are just 2 of the hundreds of companies Blackstone has invested in. Not subsidiaries of the firm. Blackstone has exited its Hilton investment anyway. • References supporting change: [3]

  • in the callout box section

• Information to be added or removed: revenue, operating income, net income, AUM, total assets should all be updated. • Explanation of issue: These are updated by the company quarterly and reported by the SEC. They are inaccurate unless they are kept updated. Would suggest either deleting these or updating per the below. • References supporting change: [4]

  • in the Business segments section

• Information to be added or removed: Private equity AUM should be updated to 130.7, Real estate AUM 136.2 • Explanation of issue: The existing number is outdated. These new numbers are from reported financials to the SEC as of 12/31. Slide 8 of the attached. • References supporting change: [5]

  • in the corporate private equity section

• Information to be added or removed: Blackstone was the largest private equity firm based on a report by Private Equity International looking at capital raised in the last 5 years. • Explanation of issue: The existing reference is 8 years old. This is updated. Wikipedia's page "List of private equity firms" references this report. • References supporting change: [6]

  • in the corporate private equity section

• Information to be added or removed: Blackstone reports having over 250 private equity employees across the world. • Explanation of issue: The existing reference is multiple years old. • References supporting change: [7]

  • in the corporate private equity section

• Information to be added or removed: Suggest removing the table listing private equity funds. • Explanation of issue: The data included in the chart is 9 years old and thus incomplete and inaccurate in describing the business

  • in the real estate section

• Information to be added or removed: Blackstone reports having over over 500 real estate employees across the world. • Explanation of issue: The existing reference is multiple years old. • References supporting change: [8]

  • in the real estate section

• Information to be added or removed: Suggest removing the table listing real estate funds. • Explanation of issue: The data included in the chart is 9 years old and thus incomplete and inaccurate in describing the business

  • in the Business segments section

• Information to be added or removed: BAAM AUM should be updated to 77.8 as of December 31, 2018 • Explanation of issue: The existing number is outdated. These new numbers are from reported financials to the SEC as of 12/31. Slide 8 of the attached. • References supporting change: [9]

  • Financial advisory services

• Information to be added or removed: this section should be deleted • Explanation of issue: Blackstone spun off its financial advisory business in 2014 • References supporting change: [10]

References

ThomasClements Blackstone (talk) 17:50, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reply 5-FEB-2019

  Unable to review edit request  
Your edit request could not be reviewed because the request is not formatted correctly.

  1. The citation style predominantly used by the Blackstone Group article appears to be Citation Style 1. The citation style used in the edit request consists of bare URL's.[a] Any requested edit of yours which may be implemented will need to resemble the current style already in use in the article – in this case, CS1. (See WP:CITEVAR.)

In the collapsed section below titled Request edit examples, I have illustrated two: The first shows how the edit request was submitted; the second shows how requests should be submitted in the future.

Request edit examples
Incorrectly formatted request:

Information to be added or removed - add :The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles.
Reference: https://www.booksource.com

Information to be added or removed - add: The Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles.
Reference: https://www.journalsource.com

Information to be added or removed - add: The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin.
Reference: https://www.websource.com

In the example above there are URL's provided with each claim statement, but these URL's have not been placed using Citation Style 1, which is the style predominantly used by the Blackstone Group article. Additionally, although references have been provided following each request, the ref tags which accompany the text have not been placed.[b] Using the correct style and the correct positioning of the ref tags, the WikiFormatted text would resemble the following:

Correctly formatted request:

Please add the following sentence to the first paragraph of the article's "Sun and Moon" section:

The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles,<ref>{{cite book|last1=Sjöblad|first1=Tristan|title=The Sun|url=http://www.booksource.com|publisher=Academic Press|date=2018|page=1}}</ref> while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles.<ref>{{cite journal|last1=Duvalier|first1=Gabrielle|title=Size of the Moon|journal=Scientific American|issue=78|volume=51|url=http://www.journalsource.com|date=2018|page=46}}</ref> The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin.<ref>{{cite book|last1=Uemura|first1=Shu|title=The Sun's Heat|url=http://www.websource.com|publisher=Academic Press|date=2018|page=2}}</ref>

Which displays as:

Please add the following sentence to the first paragraph of the article's "Sun and Moon" section:

  • The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles,[1] while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles.[2] The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin.[3]



References


  1. ^ Sjöblad, Tristan. The Sun. Academic Press, 2018, p. 1.
  2. ^ Duvalier, Gabrielle. "Size of the Moon", Scientific American, 51(78):46.
  3. ^ Uemura, Shū. The Sun's Heat. Academic Press, 2018, p. 2.

In the example above the references have been formatted according to Citation Style 1, which shows the author, the source's name, date, etc. Also, the ref tags are placed in the exact location where the text which they reference resides. As Wikipedia is a volunteer project, edit requests such yours are generally expected to have this formatting done before the request is submitted for review.[c]

Kindly rewrite your edit request so that it aligns more with the second example shown in the collapsed section above, and feel free to re-submit that edit request at your earliest convenience. If you have any questions about this formatting please don't hesitate to ask myself or another editor. Regards,  Spintendo  18:43, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  1. ^ The use of bare URLs as references is a style which is acceptable for use in Wikipedia. However, general practice dictates that the style already in use for an article be the one that is subsequently used for all future additions unless changed by editorial consensus. (See WP:CITEVAR.)
  2. ^ Per WP:INTEGRITY.
  3. ^ The proposals need not be combined as they were done for illustration purposes in the example edit request above. The requested prose may still be separated by individual claim statements along with reasons provided for each claim, as was done with the submitted request (although separate request edit templates are not necessary). The need for the provided citations to be formatted into CS1 is the primary goal.

revisions part 1

  • in the intro section

• Information to be added or removed: Change the Assets Under Management to $472B • Explanation of issue: This has been announced and updated reflecting financials as of 12/31 • References supporting change: [1]

  • in the callout box section

• Information to be added or removed: revenue, operating income, net income, AUM, total assets should all be updated. • Explanation of issue: These are updated by the company quarterly and reported by the SEC. They are inaccurate unless they are kept updated. Would suggest either deleting these or updating per the below. • References supporting change: [2]

  • in the Business segments section

• Information to be added or removed: Private equity AUM should be updated to 130.7, Real estate AUM 136.2 • Explanation of issue: The existing number is outdated. These new numbers are from reported financials to the SEC as of 12/31. • References supporting change: [3]

  • in the Business segments section

• Information to be added or removed: BAAM AUM should be updated to 77.8 as of December 31, 2018 • Explanation of issue: The existing number is outdated. These new numbers are from reported financials to the SEC as of 12/31. • References supporting change: [4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThomasClements Blackstone (talkcontribs) 21:52, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Blackstone Group L.P. (Jan 31, 2019). Form 8K: Blackstone Reports Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2018 Results (PDF) (Report). United States Securities and Exchanges Commission. p. 14. Retrieved Feb 5, 2019. {{cite report}}: Unknown parameter |authors= ignored (help)
  2. ^ Blackstone Group L.P. (Jan 31, 2019). Form 8K: Blackstone Reports Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2018 Results (PDF) (Report). United States Securities and Exchanges Commission. p. 7,14. Retrieved Feb 5, 2019. {{cite report}}: Unknown parameter |authors= ignored (help)
  3. ^ Blackstone Group L.P. (Jan 31, 2019). Form 8K: Blackstone Reports Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2018 Results (PDF) (Report). United States Securities and Exchanges Commission. p. 14. Retrieved Feb 5, 2019. {{cite report}}: Unknown parameter |authors= ignored (help)
  4. ^ Blackstone Group L.P. (Jan 31, 2019). Form 8K: Blackstone Reports Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2018 Results (PDF) (Report). United States Securities and Exchanges Commission. p. 14. Retrieved Feb 5, 2019. {{cite report}}: Unknown parameter |authors= ignored (help)

Reply 5-FEB-2019

  Edit request partially implemented  

  1. Green tickY The company's total |AUM= was placed in the lead section as an approximate figure.[a]
  2. Green tickY The company's total |AUM= was updated in the infobox as a more precise number. (Thank you for providing the page number)
  3. The other figures could not be updated as they were not individually proposed. Please state the desired figures to be inserted in their respective parameters so that the infobox may be updated.
  4. The 'business segments' section (aka the "leading" business section placed under a level 2 heading just before the main subsections which are placed under level 3 headings) was changed to a simple list. Having the leading "business" section each containing total figures for the separate divisions is to have essentially two infoboxes, with both of them containing these summary-type financial figures. A summary of the financial figures for each division may be placed in their respective subsections, where the reader might reasonably expect them to be.

plus Additional changes made:

  1. An effort was made to reduce the numerous duplicate links in the article.
  2. The Self dealing section was omitted, as its contents were insufficiently paraphrased from the source material, per WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE. A listing of the problematic text may be found here.

Regards,  Spintendo  23:07, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  1. ^ The need to change this number yearly should be lessened with the use of an approximate number. However, the use of the {{as of}} template will help with changing it in the future, if need be.

Request edit

  • in the callout box section

• Information to be added or removed: the subsidiaries should both be removed • Explanation of issue: These are just 2 of the hundreds of companies Blackstone has invested in. Not subsidiaries of the firm. In any case, Blackstone has exited its Hilton investment. • References supporting change: [1]

  • in the corporate private equity section

• Information to be added or removed: Blackstone was the 2nd largest private equity firm based on the 2018 report by Private Equity International looking at capital raised in the last 5 years. • Explanation of issue: The existing reference is 8 years old. This is updated. Wikipedia's page "List of private equity firms" references this report. • References supporting change: [2]

  • in the corporate private equity section

• Information to be added or removed: Blackstone reports having over 250 private equity employees across the world. • Explanation of issue: The existing reference is multiple years old. • References supporting change: [3]

  • in the corporate private equity section

• Information to be added or removed: Suggest removing the table listing private equity funds. • Explanation of issue: The data included in the chart is 9 years old and thus incomplete and inaccurate in describing the business. The sourced information (Preqin) is not a public database that can be accessed to update this. It should be removed unless someone can provide the updated information.

  • in the real estate section

• Information to be added or removed: Blackstone reports having over over 500 real estate employees across the world. • Explanation of issue: The existing reference is multiple years old. • References supporting change: [4]

  • in the real estate section

• Information to be added or removed: Suggest removing the table listing real estate funds. • Explanation of issue: The data included in the chart is 9 years old and thus incomplete and inaccurate in describing the business. The sourced information (Preqin) is not a public database that can be accessed to update this. It should be removed unless someone can provide the updated information.

  • financial advisory services edit

• Information to be added or removed: this section should be deleted • Explanation of issue: Blackstone spun off its financial advisory business in 2014. It is now a separate company (PJT) • References supporting change: [5]

ThomasClements Blackstone (talk) 14:18, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Tan, Gillian (May 18, 2018). "Blackstone Exits Hilton, Earning $14 Billion After 11 Years". Retrieved 2/6/2019. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)
  2. ^ "PEI 300". Private Equity International. PEI Media. Retrieved 2/6/2019. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)
  3. ^ "Blackstone". Blackstone. Retrieved 2/6/2019. Our team of over 250 private equity professionals around the world are based out of offices in the U.S., Europe and Asia {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)
  4. ^ "Blackstone". Blackstone. Retrieved 2/6/2019. The team consists of over 500 real estate professionals in 12 offices around the globe. We believe this breadth enables Blackstone to identify and evaluate opportunities worldwide. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)
  5. ^ Dezember, Ryan (October 10, 2014). "Blackstone Group to Spin Off Financial Advisory Business". Retrieved 2/6/2019. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)

Reply 7-FEB-2019

  Edit requests implemented    Spintendo  08:39, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Recent vandalism

@Ionmars10: and @Þjarkur:

I've undone some vandalism by 2606:a000:8b80:2300:8c41:2a17:11e9:8298 prior to your recent edits. Since it was done manually, I'd request you to make your edits again. 115.187.37.161 (talk) 17:04, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 DoneThjarkur (talk) 17:32, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Corporate PR guff & rain-forest info

98% of this listing is clearly done by Blackstone's PR people. Have added some information and citations regarding their investments in companies clearing the rainforests. Will be interesting to see which of Blackstone's PR people steps up to try and whitewash it. Colinmcdermott (talk) 10:07, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Colinmcdermott: Is there a reason you put that information in the opening sentence of the article, rather than the The_Blackstone_Group#Criticism_and_controversies section? SpencerT•C 02:05, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I know the PR team would much rather it was buried at the bottom of the page, but this information is notable enough to be in the first part. the Amazon isn't burning itself. Colinmcdermott (talk) 12:26, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am another user who edited [User:Colinmcdermott|Colinmcdermott], who is posting inflammatory, accusatory links in the header section. They belong in the controversy section. The header section is for a high level definition of what the firm is. Not a place to list controversies. There is an entire section dedicated to that already ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theoracle102 (talkcontribs) 19:37, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are two problems.
First, This information needs to be neutrally summarized in the body before it is added to the lead.
Second, WP:CSECTIONs should be avoided if at all possible.
From this, information about deforestation should be included in the article neutrally, according to reliable sources and WP:DUE. Then it can be better assessed how to explain this in the lead. Grayfell (talk) 20:27, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Grayfell, I moved the links to the controversy section to satisfy WP:CSECTION. Unfortunately I don't believe the linked articles are credible enough. I will leave it to others to insert more appropriate links. --Theoracle102 (talk) 03:26, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me? This is the exact opposite of what WP:CSECTION advises. The goal should be to neutrally summarize content without putting it in a "criticism section". The existence of such a section is a problem to be solved. Expanding it is not helpful. Further, this information is already in this section. By shuffling it off to the very end of the section, you have created a redundancy with the third paragraph in the section. Grayfell (talk) 03:50, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Grayfell thank you for your help - just to issue a note of caution we are clearly interacting with a PR person from Blackstone in MR Theoracle102. I imagine they have a whole team of people instructing him. I suggest we ignore their input from now on. Not credible sources? The Guardian is not credible? It is probably the most credible news publication in the UK, if not the world. In case there was any question about how prominent this is, please see: https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-colleagues-examine-role-of-private-equity-firm-blackstone-in-deforestation-of-amazon-rainforest and https://www.warren.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2019.12.16%20Letter%20to%20Blackstone%20Group%20re%20private%20equity%20investments%20and%20Amazon%20deforestation.pdf Colinmcdermott (talk) 09:15, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Colinmcdermott you have now reverted both my change, and another user change within 24 hours. That is twice. How is this not warring? Grayfell, posting this in the lead as you mentioned before it has been accepted in the body is strange. Right now it adds a fork in the definition of Blackstone. I propose moving it back to controversies, as did two other users. I'll let you do any future reverts as it is clear no one can come to a consensus with Colinmcdermott Theoracle102 (talk) 17:10, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NPA
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I have a useful link for you: shill. Colinmcdermott (talk) 17:11, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I do not appreciate the ad hominem attacks in the edit messages as well, or this talk pageTheoracle102 (talk) 17:13, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Either sign in to your real account, or admit you are a paid shill. Until then. Please stop leaving messages on my talk page I am not intesested in communicating with you, only one of us is getting paid for it. Colinmcdermott (talk) 17:42, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway... For convenience, here are the currently cited sources:

I have not included the press releases from Warren. Press releases and government documents are usually primary sources and should only be used as support. Independent sources should do all the heavy lifting.

Are the rest of these sources reliable, and can they be used in context?

If so, what exactly are all these sources saying, and how can this be neutrally summarized? To determine due weight, how do these sources compare with all the other sources used in the article? Grayfell (talk) 23:25, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll chime in here, as I'd like to move past fighting with each other Colinmcdermott. Just went through your sources a second time, and the guardian one is by far the best one. I would use that one for now.

From what I read, it looked like Blackstone invested in two Brazilian PE companies in 2018/2019 (~40% ownership IIRC). These companies were accused of deforesting the Amazon.

Hidrovias is a logistics company according to google. Hidrovias was invested by two Brazlian PE firms, of which Blackstone took ~40% stakes in said PE firms. I would include the specifics of the claim (the road through the forest is the crux of the original accusation) as well as Hidrovias's denial that the road is operated by the Brazilian government.

"Blackstone has previously been targeted for investments in Hidrovias, a Brazilian infrastructure company, which has previously been accused of having links to deforestation in the Amazon rainforest. Blackstone has denied the accusation, saying in a statement: “The erroneous claims and mischaracterizations were blatantly wrong and irresponsible.” On Tuesday, the company reiterated its position that Hidrovias was not involved in a road through the Amazon rainforest used to transport soy grown on illegally deforested land and had won awards for its sustainability efforts. “Hidrovias does not own, control or have any interest — direct or indirect — in the road in question (BR-163). This road has been operated by the Brazilian government since 1976. The company did not build this highway, nor are they paving it,” Blackstone said." '

Finally, I really believe this should be move to the 2010 section or controversy section, since right now it sits between Blackstone being defined as a private investment firm which create a random fork in the article. Theoracle102 (talk) 02:36, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just saying that the Guardian one is 'the best' is insufficient and vague. At a glance, several of these sources meet WP:RS, and as an encyclopedia, we should not summarize sources across different time-frames if appropriate. At least a couple of these sources also specifically refer back to the Intercept one. When a source is repeatedly cited by other sources, it is an indicator of significance.
Avoid WP:SYNTH. If reliable sources discuss Hidrovias directly in relation to Blackstone, summarize this source's conclusions and nothing else. Do not add WP:OR about some other company, especially not that other company's PR.
As for the quote from Blackstone, these kinds of htings are almost always treated by sources as light-weight, and for a good reason. Quotes like this should rarely be emphasized, since Wikipedia isn't a platform for public relations, or at least, it isn't supposed to be. Grayfell (talk) 03:46, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks Grayfell. I took a look at you are correct, the Intercept article is referenced by all the sources, and has the most information. Changing the current wording from "ties" to explaining the road in question, who owns it, and why Blackstone was criticized would give more context.

Since this is also a subsidiary of a subsidiaries investment, I don't believe it belongs as the 3rd sentence of the article, but should be listed under international expansion/investments from 2010 onwards. Thoughts? Theoracle102 (talk) 05:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to see the page is protected. Theoracle102 please stop communicating with me as requested I have no interest or desire to work with the Blackstone PR team. Can you imagine creating a brand new shill account 100% for the purpose of making Blackstone edits, and still denying it is a shill account ROFL. 92.26.183.192 (talk) 09:26, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]