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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Kmusser (talk | contribs) at 18:20, 20 December 2021 (→‎MS Choctaw: reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome

Hello, Yuchitown, and Welcome to Wikipedia!

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Happy editing! Uyvsdi (talk) 17:16, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Can't help but notice you are removing red links from the Native American Artist list. Why would you do that? Red links tell editors what articles are missing so that they can be created? Wiki studies have shown they increase article development. Native American artists, okay Native Americans as a whole, are very underrepresented. Why would you diminish the likelihood of an article being created? SusunW (talk) 01:06, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To warrant a Wikipedia biography article, an individual has to be notable. For artists and related individuals this means:
  1. The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors.
  2. The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory or technique.
  3. The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.
  4. The person's work (or works) either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums."

The user MoonHawkArt is MaryBeth Timothy (http://www.moonhawkart.com/index.html). She added herself and her husband to the list, which is a conflict of interest or simple self-promotion, about which wp:notpromotion has to say:

Self-promotion. It can be tempting to write about yourself or projects in which you have a strong personal involvement. However, remember that the standards for encyclopedic articles apply to such pages just like any other. This includes the requirement to maintain a neutral point of view, which can be difficult when writing about yourself or about projects close to you. Creating overly abundant links and references to autobiographical sources is unacceptable. See Wikipedia:Autobiography, Wikipedia:Notability and Wikipedia:Conflict of interest.

The Timothys cannot yet demonstrate their notability. Not every single Native American person is automatically notable. Working redlinks into articles might actually be helpful, if an artist is part of the conversation in an existing article, but simply adding your name (or the name of an artist one represents in a gallery, etc.) is a standalone list is just self-promotion. Native Americans in the United States are actually quite well covered in Wikipedia, especially compared to individuals from Latin America, Africa, Australia, or large swaths of Asia. Yuchitown (talk) 03:53, 16 July 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

Probably a good barometer for notability is asking what article the redlinked artist would be part of the discussion? Yuchitown (talk) 03:58, 16 July 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
Since Wikipedia is not a self-promotional vehicle, and is not meant for artists to create their own bios but instead meant for notable individuals to be written about by neutral editors validating information with secondary RS, I concur that artists who put their own redlinks into that list need to be culled, but be careful with other red links please. If you look at the list, I have created many articles from it. I often add a red link there and come back to it as time allows. A group of students from Stillwater also used redlinks in the list to generate a wiki editathon. One of those red links I created was made into an article at that editathon on Bert Seabourn, which you edited. Self-promotion is not acceptable, but not all redlinks are that. I still have a redlink outstanding on the David E. Williams file that I am going to get back to if someone doesn't beat me to it. Doc Tate Nevaquaya should've had an article a long time ago. SusunW (talk) 04:29, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Doc Tate is highly notable and is linked in paragraphs of several music articles. Folks create lists from which to to work on their talk pages, such as this one instead of using a live standalone list article. Yuchitown (talk) 05:16, 16 July 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
I hear you. I work from any list I can find, but I only work minorities and I work multiple minorities, usually women who are double minorities so I work in the guys when I can. The lists are vital, because of the orphan rule on here, can't leave someone floating alone or their notability is questioned. Many times, the list is all I have to link them to until I get other articles written. SusunW (talk) 05:22, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Articles don't get deleted for being orphans. It's easy enough to add links once the article is created. Adding one's name to a list is just a zero-effort way to promote oneself. If a standalone list is cluttered with redlinks then it's difficult to discern what is a needed article (I know you can request articles on Native peoples here) and what is just random people adding their names, their relatives' names, artist's whose work they sell, etc. The talk page of list articles would be another place to post redlinked names if you didn't want to simply list upcoming projects on your user page. Yuchitown (talk) 06:42, 16 July 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for your additions to Ardina Moore. The photo of her work is great! By the bye, we are planning an editathon on indigenous women for August. Scope is global, but if you know of anyone who would be interested in participating or adding red links for us to work on, please let me know. Anyone can add people to the list Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Women in Red/Indigenous Women but we prefer that at least a source or two is also added to confirm notability. List was just created, so it definitely needs lots of work but we have months to flesh it out. SusunW (talk) 19:13, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is the Editathon taking place anywhere in particular? I can help promote it offline. You may wish to post this info to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of the Americas and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America. I'll add names. Thanks for letting me know. Yuchitown (talk) 19:22, 20 December 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
All of our editathons are virtual with Women in Red, you may or may not know, I am in Mexico. But, we often do them in concert with physical events. This month's Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost talks about the process, see the article "Women in Red—" under Project Report. We will definitely include the Projects a little down the road, unless you think it is wise to do it now. Right now, we are just trying to get some active people involved in helping to create a "somewhat" curated list. SusunW (talk) 19:37, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, most of the people I can think of already have articles. Maybe include a component of improving and updating pre-existing articles? Yuchitown (talk) 19:40, 20 December 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
That is always a given :) But, I'm sure we'll find plenty. The first few articles I wrote, Tillie Hardwick and Minnie Evans came out of the Indian Termination Policy article. I am sure there are politicians that have not been covered and Moore, I got from the Oklahoma Women's Hall of Fame list. As I said, we have time to work on it, just wanted to make you aware that the list is out there and that an event will be coming up. SusunW (talk) 19:52, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]


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Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

AIM

I supported reversing the CFDR, but we need a split discussion; people are adding other movements to that category for lack of one to put them in ("movement" and "organization" are not synonyms).  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  00:00, 30 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Right, that's why there is Category:Indigenous rights, Category:Indigenous politics in North America, and Category:Native American nationalism. Of the articles in the AIM category, National Council on Indian Opportunity is a Native American rights organization, so I re-categorized that appropriately. Every other article in the AIM category pertains to AIM. Lakota Freedom Movement directly pertains to AIM. Yuchitown (talk) 00:57, 30 January 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Victor Griffin (Quapaw) has been accepted

Victor Griffin (Quapaw), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

Robert McClenon (talk) 21:39, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mythology

You recently commented on an article move that "mythology implies a dead religion". What gave you this idea? Per out definition of Mythology: "Mythology can refer to the collected myths of a group of people—their collection of stories they tell to explain nature, history, and customs—or to the study of such myths."

We have articles on the mythologies of living religions such as Jewish mythology, Christian mythology, and Islamic mythology. The article on mythology also points that mythology is not dead either. The section on "Modern mythology" points that "Many scholars in the field of cultural studies are now beginning to research the idea that myth has worked itself into modern discourses. Modern formats of communication allow for widespread communication across the globe, thus enabling mythological discourse and exchange among greater audiences than ever before. Various elements of myth can now be found in television, cinema, and video games." Dimadick (talk) 22:25, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How many times have you heard someone describe their own religion as "mythology"? Yuchitown (talk) 22:34, 24 April 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

Hammonasset (people)

I have decline the db-a7 on this article because this article is about a people - not a person. DB-A7 is strictly about people, bans, organizations, etc. Not a tribe.--v/r - TP 07:35, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

But there's no speedy deletion tag for a term that is being mistakenly used for a tribe. It's a place name and apparently a chapter of the Improved Order of Red Men[1]. It's not a Native American tribe. Yuchitown (talk) 07:38, 10 May 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
Speedy deletion is only for deletions that are not contentious. The criteria for CSD is very strict because there is no community vetting before the delete button is hit. That's why we have to do a very good job at adhering to the criteria. Essentially, the community got tired of holding a discussion for every 13 yr old that wants to have an article - so they came up with CSD criteria to skip discussions. But, as you know, all actions on-wiki require consensus. So, if no CSD criteria exists, then no consensus exists to delete that article. Which is why we need to send the article to a consensus developing process. If there is no CSD criteria available, then it doesn't belong at CSD. Try {{prod}} or {{afd}} instead.--v/r - TP 08:07, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Right on. People would have to look for published sources to see the flaws in the Hammonasset (people) article. Thanks, Yuchitown (talk)Yuchitown

Hey, thanks a lot!

Hi Yuchitown, thanks a lot for the barnstar! I will put it in my awards. Hope you find my work interesting, all the best, Tisquesusa (talk) 05:58, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Saracen

Would you mind helping with this page?

Basic work is done, just need some help proofing it before submitting it to be an actual article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ogahpah/subpage

Ogahpah (talk) 20:56, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Editathon

Thank you so much for helping to curate our list for indigenous women. Your help has been invaluable and I think we have created a pretty good group to work on. Should I post something on the project page now or just send the invite a couple of days beforehand? SusunW (talk) 05:20, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi SusunW, I've never been involved with Editathon, so couldn't offer any advice. Many of these people look obscure even by Indigenous studies standards, but I can try to tackle Jennie Ross Cobb, Patricia Michaels, and Theresa Secord. Yuchitown (talk) 16:30, 23 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
In that case, I will post something there just for a heads up. Three women would be very cool. The editathon is pretty simple since its virtual. You get invited, you sign up (or don't) as a participant. You complete your work wherever you are and add it to the sign-up sheet. That's about it. There are others who will check it for categories, photos, banners, etc. SusunW (talk) 16:50, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. I wonder what the best pre-existing biography article is to use as a template? Yuchitown (talk) 17:55, 23 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
Not sure about "best", but here is what I do User talk:Buster7/The List - Women Artists#HOW to.... (I got asked it so often, I wrote it down for another editor and bookmarked his link.) ;) I never ever submit articles for review. Just move them to the main page when you are ready. SusunW (talk) 18:31, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Marie Watt looks pretty basic but well done. I'll use that. Yuchitown (talk) 18:48, 23 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
Many apologies. I did not remember you had said you were going to do Jennie Robb Cobb. SusunW (talk) 23:13, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No worries! The Jennie Ross Cobb article looks great. I'll look it over and see if I can add anything. I can write Theresa Secord for sure. Yuchitown (talk) 23:50, 13 August 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
Hello You have recently removed a posting regarding state recognition of the Mount Tabor Indian Community, stating that the bill was only honorary. However, under Texas law the wording of the bill is the issue and the final paragraph states "RESOLVED, That the 85th Legislature of the State of Texas hereby RECOGNIZE THE MOUNT TABOR INDIAN COMMUNITY OF TEXAS and commend it on its many valuable contributions to this state; and, be it further... This is the same wording as the 2008 Lipan Apache bill that was recently upheld by the Fifth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in a religious case related to possession of eagle feathers. "That the Senate of the State of Texas hereby RECOGNIZE the Lipan Apache Tribe of Texas and commend it on its many valuable contributions to this state; and, be it further..." The feathers were returned due to their being a "state recognized tribe" and a violation of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Note the House bill for the Lipan was worded the same way. The Mount Tabor bill was a joint bill and signed by the Governor. The Governor did not sign the Apache bill since it passed both houses separately, otherwise the status is identical. There is then no discernible difference in the wording of the two tribes recognition. This is different from a 2015 bill for the Texas Band of Yaqui Indians which specifically stated "Honored" not "recognized". My suggestion in wanting to know more about us is to talk to David Cornsilk or Kurt West. I hate wannabes as much as they do, but if you are not familiar with the history of MTIC then a little more research is in order. The bill will stand in federal court, yes it was titled under honorary, but wording changes and a governors signing made it state law and the State of Texas considers MTIC to be a tribe. Thank you for your time.Terran57 (talk) 18:39, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Indigenous women and Polar women editathons

You are invited...

Indigenous women editathon & Polar women editathon
Hosted by Women in Red - August 2016 - #wikiwomeninred

SusunW (talk) 21:12, 24 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cool! Yuchitown (talk) 01:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

Barnstar

Thanks for the barnstar, Yuchitown! I run across your work now and then and its good. Smallchief (talk)

Right on! Yuchitown (talk) 22:40, 11 August 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

An automated process has detected that you recently added links to disambiguation pages.

Choctaw
added a link pointing to Moundville
Weapemeoc Indians
added a link pointing to Algonquian language

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:05, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Nauset, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page British.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:06, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You could have come to me

You could have made the suggestion or commented on my Talk Page. I would have self-reverted. I just found it a little snide the way you reverted. No big deal. There are wikilinks all over that page. I followed one way on the page of getting it done. You had a different opinion. If I make any further changes I will do so with a redirect so my work isn't reverted again. --ARoseWolf 18:05, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm so sorry. Usually when something relates to one article, all the conversation takes place on that article. I'm also sorry, because List of federally recognized tribes in the United States has years and years of discussing about creating redirects instead of editing those links, and I gather that conversation has not happened on yet the Alaska list. List of Alaska Native tribal entities follows the same pattern as List of federally recognized tribes in the United States, it's just Alaska-specific, which follows the pattern the DOI set with the federal register. I didn't mean to offend you. Thank you for reaching out and thank you for all your contributions to Wikipedia. Yuchitown (talk) 18:12, 10 November 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
No, I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have snapped at you like that. I think it's a combination of a lot of things that caused it, nothing here. I just jumped on to relieve some stress. I apologize for my comment. I took no offense to what you did, if I am honest maybe a little in the way you did it, but I was wrong to respond the way I did and my offense was not warranted. I have redirected several now and will continue to do so as I can. I will also correct the wikilinks in the list to bring it in line with the set pattern. Thank you for your contributions as well. Again, I'm so sorry. No excuse for my comment, at all. I struck it. --ARoseWolf 18:35, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I hear you. I'm usually on here when I've avoiding a deadline! (Aggggh!!!) So I try to avoid wikistress and I am sorry to have reverted your actions, when I could have posted a comment on the talk page. Thanks and have a good rest of your day! Best, Yuchitown (talk) 18:44, 10 November 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
I will have to go back and adjust some because if there is a separate city government to the tribal government then the redirect would not be adequate. In the case of Allakaket and Alatna which are across the river from each other, there are two councils, one being Athabascan and the other being Inuit, they call themselves Eskimo to those outside the tribe, at least the ones I travelled with did. They are Nunamiut from Anaktuvuk but have family in Alatna village. We have Athabascan's from Allakaket that harvest on the land we steward near the Alatna River. I'm rambling now. Have a good rest of your day as well. --ARoseWolf 18:55, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In a perfect world, each Alaskan tribal government would have their own article, but that would be a *ton* of work!! (I try to not get overly invested here, since it can be such a time suck!) Best, Yuchitown (talk) 03:52, 11 November 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
I'm trying to be very judicious in how to redirect and to when to. Obviously, you could link nearly every one of them to a community. But most share a tribal community name with that of a city or census designated place and in a lot of cases the tribal government is separate from the city government so a link wouldn't be applicable though maybe a link to the section where their tribal community is mentioned within an article may be a viable alternative until, hopefully, one day they get their own article. I agree that each tribal government having its own article would be the most ideal case. I have been making small edits to try and improve articles and may get more into writing new articles again once winter is over. This year was a bit difficult with me getting sick back in the summer. I'm fine now and still improving. Best to you as well, --ARoseWolf 14:36, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if there is a good Alaska Native tribe article that could serve as a template? I fell down the rabbit hole of Massachusetts Native articles, which I'm shocked be how bad the quality of them have been, but need to pull myself out to get RL work done! :) Glad you are on the mend. Yuchitown (talk) 15:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
Came here to say that I appreciated your input Yuchitown on the discussion on the policy page, laughed at your comment on "time suck" (isn't that what all policy discussions are too?) and then seeing that you two have met, I had to smile. Overlapping circles of interconnectivity. Hope you are both doing well, though I am sure Asareel is freezing (or I would be in her shoes). SusunW (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think you two might be the nicest people on Wikipedia! Yuchitown (talk) 17:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
I am truly honored that you see me that way. I think we all have the similar goal of improving the encyclopedia and being respectful. That's critical to me and I appreciate the times we can work together. SusunW (talk) 17:23, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I so love the Sioux belief in the sacred hoop, something that I have incorporated in my own beliefs, because that's exactly how my eyes see us. Some people would say its all in my head, not far off btw, but its how I live. It causes misunderstandings and sometimes I don't know how to explain it but every action I take is genuine and truly meant to help, assist and guide in our interactions. As noted above I am still affected by moods and external forces but I am encouraged because I meet very understanding people like yourself, Susun, and Yuchitown. I love our web of interconnectivity. Because we respect each other and can keep open eyes to how our actions and words affect others we can improve the environment around us thereby creating a better atmosphere for collaboration. It's not enough to know this. We have to act. Everything is connected. Amazing! --ARoseWolf 18:22, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

List of Alaska Native tribal entities

You had asked if there was a "best" example of an article on Alaska Native tribal entities recognized by the federal government in our conversation above. I thought I would pull that out and add it as a new section so we can discuss as we are able to. I found what may be an example of "best" we currently have but there may always be room for improvement. See King Island Native Community. --ARoseWolf 15:58, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Regarding the Cusabo tribes

It is no surprise that a Yuchi, of the same people who invaded Cusabo villages, is trying to say we are extinct. We still exist and a Yuchi, just like any other colonizer, has no right to say whether we do or not. You are not one of us. You do not have the right to silence our elders and us for sharing our story. Cusabo is a GENERAL name applied to South Carolina coastal tribes. So for you to say that NO Cusabo tribes exist is participating in the erasure of Indigenous Americans. Dtreu99 (talk) 06:58, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please read Wikipedia's policy for Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Thank you. Yuchitown (talk) 15:48, 2 December 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

MS Choctaw

You reverted my edit to the list of Federally recognized tribes. Both Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians and Henning, Tennessee list them as having land in Tennessee. The tribes land in Tennessee also shows up in cartography boundary files from both the U.S. Census and BIA. Are those all incorrect? Kmusser (talk) 16:52, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You have to provide published, secondary sources for major changes like that. Check out wp:reliable for more information. The Chickasaw Nation owns land in Mississippi, but it is not held in trust. They are not currently considered a Missisippi tribe. Thanks, Yuchitown (talk) 17:52, 20 December 2021 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]
I was just trying to bring the 3 bring articles in line with each other, it was already cited on the Henning article with https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/dcs/documents/quality_improvement/cfsr/TDCS_CFSP_2015-2019.pdf (page 7 is the relevant one) Kmusser (talk) 18:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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