Talk:Jeffrey Dahmer

Convictions?

I noticed the infobox near the top of this article lists "Conviction(s)" as:

• First-degree murder
• Child molestation
• Indecent exposure
• Disorderly conduct
• Public intoxication

However, all I can find in the cited sources are 15 initial murder convictions, plus one more (in a different jurisdiction). Does anyone have any idea what I'm missing (i.e. where the other convictions are listed)? If the info isn't sourced, it should probably be removed, but before I touch it, I want to be certain I didn't overlook something. Thanks! — UncleBubba ^{( T @ C )} 20:45, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Some are listed in the article. I have listed references for each:

Disorderly conduct August 7, 1982 @ Wisconsin State Fair Park. P. 135 of Norris's book

Public intoxication/resisting arrest October 7, 1981 @ Maxwell's Lounge in Bath Township Pp. 125-126 of Norris's book

Indecent exposure (plus lewd and lascivious behavior) September 8, 1986 @ Kinnickinnic River Parkway P. 99 of Masters' book

Sexual assault and enticing a child for immoral purposes January 30, 1989 (in relation to the 1988 sexual assault of the 13-year-old). p. 170 of Holewa's book.--Kieronoldham (talk) 01:23, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Germany

Is it appropriate to include the unverified claims that Dahmer raped two soldiers in Germany?

1. He was very forthcoming about his crimes. The only reason we are aware of many of them is because he confessed to it.
2. In numerous sessions with psychiatrists, detectives, FBI agents, he was adamant that he did not have homosexual relations while in Germany. He said that he had discovered homosexual pornography there and used it for masturbation. And that one time an older sergeant propositioned him, but Dahmer turned him down. In this period, he was still conflicted about fully embracing his sexuality.
3. As soon as news about Dahmer broke out, the media went to interview anyone they could find. Of his time in Germany everyone said that all he did was drink until he passed out on his bed.
4. Raping soldiers in Germany doesn't fit his psychological profile. His journey into depravity was one of gradual escalation.
5. If he had raped two soldiers in Germany, why would he hide it? He had already confessed to raping, killing, engaging in necrophilia, dismemberment, cannibalization, attempts at creating zombies of multiple people. He even told about the attempt at that jogger in 1976! Why risk hiding something that can be easily exposed due to his notoriety and crush his entire case? His honesty was his only saving grace.
6. Beating and raping a guy for 7 months is not Dahmer's MO. He was not into torturing conscious victims. In his sick mind, he loved them.
7. The guy does not fit Dahmer's preferences at all. Dahmer was obsessed with a certain body type, it was his turn on. That guy is a complete opposite of it.
8. As it stands now, these are unverified claims that were made 16 years after his death.--CJC-DI (talk) 23:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree with CJC-DI. He had nothing to lose by confessing to these crimes, had they occurred. He even admitted murders which would never have been linked to him. Had he not confessed, with a possibility at a much later date of the death of Steven Hicks being linked to him (had his remains been found), he could have claimed Sears was his first murder victim. This text("Two soldiers have since claimed to have been raped by Dahmer while in the Army. In 2010, one stated that Dahmer had repeatedly raped him over a 17-month period while they were both stationed at Baumholder, while another soldier believes Dahmer drugged and raped him inside an armored personnel carrier in 1979") may be worthy of inclusion within the notes section, however.--Kieronoldham (talk) 17:33, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Does anyone have access to page 40 of Freyd and Birrell (2013)? No Google preview available. Also, just for info, here's an 2017 article from The Daily Mail that we can't use: [1]. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:44, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Not personally, Martin.--Kieronoldham (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 May 2021

Change: Under parents Joyce Annette (née Flint)

To: (born Flint or born Joyce Flint)

Née is the French for born so I think it should be changed in the English entry. 68.151.136.4 (talk) 08:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: this is a fairly common thing that's done for women's maiden names, especially when conserving space is of interest. See MOS:NEE. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 08:32, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Cannibalism

It doesn’t mention when he cannibalized his victims under his murders. Jdietr601 (talk) 15:44, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Ernest Miller was the first victim Dahmer consumed portions of flesh from. P. 155 of Masters' book.--Kieronoldham (talk) 15:58, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Then why doesn’t it mention that in the article? MaxwellWinnie102 (talk) 15:41, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

The article does state he placed the biceps et cetera in the fridge for later consumption. Dr. Becker stated at the trial he "tenderized the heart, ate it and the muscle meat".--Kieronoldham (talk) 23:00, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2022

In media -> please add:

---

start-----------------------------------------------

Music

• 213 (1994). Song by the American Thrash metal band Slayer (album: Divine Intervention)
• Dahmer (2002). Concept album by the Amcerican Death-metal band Macabre
• Jeffrey Dahmer (2010). Song by the metal band Soulfly (album: Omen)

---

end-----------------------------------------------

H8eternal (talk) 13:45, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: These need reliable secondary sources, showing they are notable examples. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Note it's this one for Slayer, and that article does have two RS sources. Not checked the other two. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:30, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

This is trivia, really. Not really encyclopedic. If this permeates through then there'll be a deluge of "mentioned in Season 3 Episode 2" of such and such a series proposals. Look at the In media section of the Aileen Wuornos article.--Kieronoldham (talk) 20:43, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

I tend to agree. Just because Dahmer may be notable for the songs, doesn't mean the songs are notable for Dahmer. The RS secondary sources are perfectly relevant for the articles of the bands or albums concerned. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

ok. think I got it now. inserted some reliable secondary sources below, that were used in the Wiki-pages for the bands' albums already before:

Macabre: taken for the Wiki page for the "Dahmer album" itself references (Dahmer_(album) : ::https://www.allmusic.com/artist/macabre-mn0000220123/biography

Soulfly: taken for the Wiki page for the "Omen (Soulfly album)" itself references Omen_(Soulfly_album)

https://www.allmusic.com/album/omen-mw0001983498

Slayer: taken for the Wiki page for the Divine_Intervention_(Slayer_album) itself references [[2]] :

https://web.archive.org/web/20121111023533/http://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/20/arts/pop-review-death-and-madness-remain-the-basics-in-slayer-s-repertory.html

archived from the original NYT-article about the Slayer album:

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/20/arts/pop-review-death-and-madness-remain-the-basics-in-slayer-s-repertory.html

H8eternal (talk) 12:09, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

removed the old sources, for your convenience H8eternal (talk) 10:39, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Those sources look ok to me, although NYT is behind a paywall. Let's get a second opinion. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:44, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

You can see the nyt source through the archive. Now the question becomes is this WP:DUE? I generally fall on the "less trivia" side. There would have to be a significant amount of coverage for me to think it belonged in the article. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:01, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

No strong view. But all three sources are written from the perspective of the music. So, as I said above, while Dahmer may be considered notable for the music, the reverse is not necessarily true. I think we'd need some source(s) about Dahmer that mention these songs? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

ok I think this article meets the demands now - source about Dahmer and his impact on metal music, mentioning the Slayer and the Macabre songs [we have to skip the Soulfly then]:

https://www.invisibleoranges.com/metal-and-jeffrey-dahmer/

H8eternal (talk) 09:08, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

If invisibleoranges.com is WP:RS (and I don't know how to tell for sure), maybe there's a place for it at thrash metal, death-metal or heavy metal music? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:35, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Invisible Oranges as you can see has a wiki-page of its own. so I guess it should be a WP:RS H8eternal (talk) 10:18, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

As do the National Enquirer, the Daily Star and FrontPage Magazine. But, by all means, ask at WT:RSP. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

H8eternal asked at WP:RSN thread Invisible_Oranges. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 14:42, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

ok - I asked at WT:RSP, it didn't generate a lot of discussion, but the one user who replied said he was inclined to treat the source as reliable for non-exceptional claims like the ones in my proposed addition for the Dahmer page. I suppose this means we don't have to expect any intervention from this side.

if anyone feels this addition can be done now please feel free to do it. the content can be taken from very top marked with start/end. thank you.H8eternal (talk) 17:00, 4 February 2022 (UTC)