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This is the current revision of this page, as edited by MalnadachBot (talk | contribs) at 00:51, 11 February 2023 (Fixed Lint errors. (Task 12)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version.

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December 1st

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{{Washington-state-highway-stub}} / Category:Washington state highway stubs / {{Washington State Highway Stub}} {{Washington-State-Highway-Stub}}(redirect)

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Needs to be changed after the strange SFD that didn't work. I am requesting that the template be moved to {{Washington-State-Highway-stub}}. Some have complained that then the category would be inconsistent, but that is because the category predates the WikiProject. Therefore I am requesting that it should be called Category:Washington State Highway stubs. See Talk:List of California State Routes/Archive2 for the why. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:32, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Then we should change List of Current United States Senators to List of current United States senators... if we're going to follow the reasoning of "California state route." --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 20:49, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
See your friendly neighbourhood style guide for capitalisation of titles, which there's generally specific guidance (as I've previously suggested you do for the cases in question; I'll be very surprised if you find a comparable one). A vague analogy does not a precendent make. What's the point in continuing this, btw, if action is contingent on renaming the parent category, which is yet to make it as far as CFD? Alai 06:12, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I've been very busy... I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 06:30, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
OK. Can we strive to do these in the opposite order in future? Not much point in opening a debate here that's going to be contingent on one that hasn't even started elsewhere, and if we follow that logic, won't be closeable until after that one is. Especially given the grief we're getting for failing to close debates in a timely fashion. Alai 07:50, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The state highway category issue didn't get resolved. It got sent to develop a consensus, with Wikipedia:WikiProject Highways/U.S. state highway naming conventions being the current place. I'm closing this SFD discussion. Without the parent category changing names, it is clear that the consensus is to keep the stub category as it is until and unless the parent changes name. The stub template follows the naming conventions for stub templates, given the current category name, so based on the discussion above I treating that as a keep as well. The redirects need pruning in my opinion, but they also never got an sfd-r placed on them, so I'm going to close the debate on the redirects as no consensus and recommend that the redirects that violate the naming guidelines no matter how the category gets resolved be put up for a proper sfd-r sometime in the new year on that basis only. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]


December 2nd

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It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

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It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

  • Delete Too few stubs. Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - SouthAm-stub can be used happily enough. Grutness...wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Comment -- The Guyana contingent of wikipedians is just beginning to trickle in and be more active. Guyana-stubs et al. should just be merged with the Caribbean-stubs since Guyana has nearly all of their ties to the Caribbean and precious little with the rest of South America. Their articles usually always are more Caribbean centric then South American and thus would be updated much faster as Caribbean-stubs and much less rapidly as South America Stubs. CaribDigita 02:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, it's a bad idea to merge English-speaking countries in with Spanish-speaking areas, because different editors are able to expand them. Kappa 02:50, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment There are too few stubs at present to justify this stub type so Keep is not an option. Neither the South American nor the Caribbean stubs are particularly overloaded at present. With only Ecuador, Bolivia, Paraguaym, Uruguay, and the Guianas lacking country level stubs at present, SouthAm-stub is not particularly crowded and has fewer stubs than Caribbean-stub. At most, I could see treating the Caribbean in a similar fashion as we do with the Middle East now and have stubs for the Guianas (Guyana, French Guiana, and Suriname) be double stubbed with both the Caribbean and the South American stub, just as stubs that would take {{Egypt-stub}} if it existed take {{Africa-stub}} and {{MEast-stub}} for now. Caerwine 05:37, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • With 38 stubs now, the geo stub category, and the 8 in the bio-stub that unless it grows soon that I'll be nominating for an up merge when this one concludes, I'm switching from delete to no vote. However, if kept, the category definitely needs a rename to Category:Guyana stubs.
        • It don't think it can be change back to "Guyana stubs" there was some vote a a few months back that everything should be converted to "(placename)-related stubs". CaribDigita 01:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • Quite the reverse, there a was a vote last month in favor of eliminating all of the "-related"s from all stub categories. Mairi has been been keeping Mairibot busy with that and hasn't finishied. This one was part of that discussion, but because of the possibility of deleting the stub entirely was referred to this separate SfD instead.

Summary: Guyana-stub kept. Guyana-related stubs renamed to Guyana stubs. --TheParanoidOne 18:52, 27 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

  • Delete With close to a year of existence, it has only 24 stubs, which is below the recommendation even if it had a WikiProject. There's also not much potential for more stubs given that the nation consists of only one small island, making it the smallest independ republic in terms of both area and population. Caerwine 21:54, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and restub to the hardly overpopulated oceania-stub. Grutness...wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment after some stub searching, it's now up to 42 stubs. --Mairi 04:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. It has quite a few stubs, and it bugs me that systemic bias issues are so regularly ignored on this page. Ambi 03:18, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's hardly systemic bias that this country only has 6000 people, and therefore not very many articles. It makes far more sense for editors who are able to expand articles on Pacific islands in general to be able to find them in one go. It makes a lot of sense to have individual main categories for every country, but not for individual countries to have their own stub categories, simply because stub categories are aimed at helping editors, and editors who know about some PI nations are very likely to know about others too. As it happens, there are probably enough stubs here for this category to survive, but if there hadn't been, it would have made far more sense to upmerge it. Grutness...wha? 03:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep In concurrence with Ambi, believing the nation should get its own stub. --Allstar86 06:23, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

December 3rd

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{{Oceania-struct-stub}} / Category:Oceania buildings and structures stubs

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Even as a parochially patriotic kiwi, I can see that an Oceania struct-stub template and category used by 149 stubs of which all but 21 are from Australia is better turned into an Australia-struct-stub, with the remaining stubs returned to the general struct-stub category. New Zealand is the only country with more than one of these remaining stubs (it has 16), and - with any luck - it will eventually move up to the point of a split itself (but not for a looong time). I suggest a rescope and rename. see below. Grutness...wha? 08:46, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Support creation of Australia-struct-stub. Do you have a feeling for whether the shortage of other Oceania struct stubs is due to a shortage of structures, a shortage of articles about them (and thus a WP:BIAS issue), or that all the structures have non-stub articles? --Scott Davis Talk 09:53, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
A bit of each. There aren't as many prominent structures, to start with - most of the other countries in the region are either very small, somewhat undeveloped, or lightly populated. There won't be that many buildings in Vanuatu or Tonga worth writing articles about. Then there's a bit of article-bias - other that Australia and New Zealand there aren't too many Oceanian editors. But that refers back to their small populations and underdevelopment; other that Aus and NZ, the only country in the region with over a million population is Papua New Guinea, which is still not at the same technology level as a lot of countries. What's more, in the case of New Zealand what articles there are are often already past stub level. Maybe I should write a few more stubs :) Grutness...wha? 12:09, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I was thinking - we need to make sure all the significant structures in the little islands (if there are any more such structures) get stubs as they don't have their own editors, then see if we can get rid of the category or if it's big enough by then.--Scott Davis Talk 12:36, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've gone through all the categories I can think of that might have some hiding in there, and it's improved things a bit... it might be possible to keep the oceania category and have australia as a subcat (BTW, Scott, unfortunately from the point of view of this category, airports are geo-, not struct-, since quite a lot of the ones still marked as stub are little more than bare flattened landing strips.). The count's now Australia 128, all other 40, and a wee bit of stub-creation in the next few days could get it up past 50 at least. Grutness...wha? 08:40, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Make that all others 43. Never thought I'd be writing an article on Government House in Fiji! Grutness...wha? 09:12, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It's up to about 50 now, so I'm changing this to a proposal to keep Oceania-struct-stub but add Australia-struct-stub as a subcat of it (probably better done through WP:WSS/P). Still not much from the islands, so it's likely the same problem will come up again if New Zealand gets too many more struct-stubs (35 of the 50 are from there). Grutness...wha? 02:30, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Support creation of Australia-struct-stub. Slark 02:05, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Galicia * stubs

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To quote Mairi at WP:WSS/D: A variant of the first one ({{Galician-stub}}) was deleted a month ago, so that could be speedied. However, it's the only one of these that looks possibly viable; but there's still the issue of how to distinguish that these are for the Spanish Galicia and not the Ukrainian/Polish Galicia.

These stubs accompany a brand new WikiProject... but, as the boilerplate text for making WikiProjects states, "DO NOT simply create new stub templates, as these will probably be deleted". QED. The first of these templates is potentially viable, and there is a proposal on the table for splitting Spain's geography stubs (though it is far from clear that this would be the best way). The others are unnecessary, as the parent Spanish categories are nowhere near splittable level (270 Spanish people-stubs and 54 Spanish writer-stubs, even including the Galician ones!). In any case Spain-bio-stub wouldn't be split by region but by occupation. Given that there is a WikiProject, a simple galicia-stub (or GaliciaES-stub, perhaps?) is probably worthwhile, leading into a category called Category:Galicia (Spain) stubs, but the others should be merged with it and then deleted. Grutness...wha? 03:09, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A definite delete on all but the root Galician stub unless a lot more can can be found. I'd prefer {{GaliciaSpain-stub}} & Category:Galicia (Spain) stubs but could live with {{Galicia-stub}} since judging by the difference between the numbers of articles that feed into the categories of the two Galicias, it will be a long time, if ever, before a Galicia-Lodomeria stub be needed. Caerwine 04:52, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Logging Note: Only the first item kept. All others deleted. This discussion has been added to the Deleted section as well. --TheParanoidOne 11:57, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

December 6th

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{{NZ-university-stub}} and Category:New Zealand university stubs

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Has been on WSS/D for about two months now. Used on only 9 articles, and as Grutness said, there are only 10 universities in New Zealand. Aecis praatpaal 17:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

December 8th

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{{hist-book-stub}} & Category:Historical fiction book stubs

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While taking a look at whether the proposed {{hist-film-stub}} would be worth creating, I discovered that its parent cat would be Category:Period films. It then struck me that by using "period fiction" instead of "historical fiction" for this stub type, we would be able to have a stub type about history books without having to resort to the {{hist-text-stub}} that Grutness has been suggesting without much enthusiasm from others. Therefore I propose that we:

Rename to {{period-book-stub}} & Category:Period fiction book stubs. Caerwine Caerwhine 21:30, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Comment FWIW the current parent category of this is Category:Historical novels. --Mairi 00:40, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

True, and "historical fiction" is by far more used as a term than "period fiction". Without the other potential use of the stub template for non-fiction hostory books, I wouldn't have even proposed this one. If there were some other way to break the log jam that has kept the non fiction book stubs from being split despite the fact that they need to be, I'd take it, but the other suggested method ("-text-") has not received much favor on the proposals page. Caerwine Caerwhine 02:53, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps rename the template to {{hist-fict-stub}} (or any variation on the abbreviations) or {{hist-novel-stub}}? --Mairi 04:02, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
{{histfict-book-stub}} might be a possibility, but between the abbreviations and the fact that {{histfict-film-stub}} would be far less obvious than {{period-film-stub}} makes me slightly leery, but not so leery that I'd out and out oppose it if others favored it. Caerwine Caerwhine 11:09, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I could be wrong, but doesn't "historical fiction" refer to a fictional work concerning a real event or person (such as the movie Amadeus is a fictional work about a historically important person: Mozart) whereas "period fiction" concerns a story at a differnt time, but not about historical events or people? I'm not completely sure, but it's what I've always understood about it.Rt66lt 22:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Historical that is. A more usual term for the idea. As above the meaning of historical is clearer in refering to the past. Period is slightly ambiguous in that today is also part of 'a period', allbeit the current one. Admittedly, period in normal usage implies historical, but it is not clearly so. The terms period-drama, period film, peroid-piece etc are implied to be historical. What the use of Period does add is the (again implied) idea of "of the period", i.e. of less historcal/factual 'content'. My contention is that subtleties of this kind are too vague to draw in many cases and often missed by the majority anyway. Many use historical to mean of the past regardless of factual content, and many use period to mean of a certain time and apportion a certain factual content regardless of it's real presence. Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 10:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

December 9th

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{{New Hampshire-stub}} (redirect)

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At the same time as the above, Karmafist also made this redirect which runs contrary to naming practice. Delete this, at least. Grutness...wha? 00:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

December 13th

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{{Malware-stub}}/Category:Malware stubs

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This arrived unexpectedly today at WP:WSS/ST. While I realise that Category:Software stubs is one of our largest, I'm not convinced that this is a useful subcat. It certainly was never proposed or debated prior to creation, and Category:Malware with all its subcategories has only 140-odd articles, so the chances of it reaching the 60-65 threshold are not high. Grutness...wha? 09:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

December 15th

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December 16th

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{{AfricanAmerican-stub}} / Category:African American stubs

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No category, created today and used once. While a stub for African-American history might be useful, a general stub like this cuts across many categories, particularly when it gets applied to people. There are also no existing stub types for individual ethnic groups. Delete --Mairi 08:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The template now has category too. --Mairi 04:34, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete not at all useful, for the reasons mentioned. Grutness...wha? 09:47, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can see where a stub for African American topics (history, politics, religion, organisations, etc.) could be useful, but the stub name should not be {{AfricanAmerican-stub}}, which would logically be only applied to people. I cannot think of a better name, but I'm sure there is one. The usefulness of the stub would be dependent on how many (and what type) of articles to which it could be applied. As for this stub name, delete it. — Fingers-of-Pyrex 13:40, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Lectonar 13:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep this is a notable subject that is bound to have many stubs associated with it.--Revolución (talk) 05:51, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete spliting by race cuts across too many catagories. BL kiss the lizard 04:23, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as with the articles relating to mexican-americans/chicanos, there are too few articles to divide it up on any basis other than race. Don't use a desire to not categorize things on racial lines to justify making it difficult to coordinate articles dealing with ethnic groups underrepresented on Wikipedia. You can't think of a better name because there isn't one. Believe me, it would be used. --Bfraga 05:06, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • not quite sure what you mean by "too few to split apart from by race" - the only stub currently marked with this is a US-poli-stub. The Chicano category contains a US-poli-stub, a US-newspaper-stub, a US-struct-stub, and a US-writer-stub. In other words, it has already cut across four categories and only has four stubs! Of these, if split further, one would be split by type of writer and one by location of structure, in keeping with other similar categories. Grutness...wha? 05:47, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Wikipedia is not a tree and neither are categories and stubs. Frankly this cutting across categories complaint sounds more liek a reason to keep, not a reason to delete. The topic itself is well defined, has interested people, and is not well served by existing categories. I'm not 100% happy with the name, but I can't think of a better one that wouldn't be totally artificial and created solely to satisfy the hyper-treeists such as {{US-ethno-Africa-stub}} (Yuuch!) Caerwine Caerwhine 15:29, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

December 17th

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{{auto-stub}}

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This stub is confusing since 'auto' is commonly used as an abbreviation for 'automatic.' An inexperience user, having only viewed automobile articles and encountered only auto-stub stubs, may create an article of their own and use auto-stub thinking that this will automagically create the appropriate stub. Delete and rename to automotive-stub or something less ambiguous. CMJ 08:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

{{Mexican-American/Chicano Stub}} / Category:Mexican-American/Chicano Stubs; {{La Raza-stub}} (redirect) Category:La Raza stubs (old cat)

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This has the same problems as {{AfricanAmerican-stub}} below about being applied to people, which is what the current name would suggest. Furthermore, the current name is pretty awful, between the space, capital Stub and using two alternate names in the template name. And while there is Wikipedia:WikiProject Mexican-Americans/Chicanos, that suggests even more that this is intended for people. Delete --Mairi 04:51, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

delete as with the African-American one, we don't split by race, we don't use ambiguous names, and this cuts across all sorts of categories. And speedy delete Category:La Raza stubs if its already deprecated (what the <eth>; is La Raza anyway?). Grutness...wha? 05:17, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete {{La Raza-stub}} & Category:La Raza stubs. La Raza is a term used by some Hispanics, especially Mexicans to refer to themselves. It alludes specifically to their mestizo heritage, but it is of such unstable meaning right now it isn't a good stub name. It is a term that has crossed over into American English, most notably in the name of the National Council of La Raza and in the slogans used by several professional wrestlers. (Caerwine Caerwhine 06:10, 18 December 2005 (UTC) Why did I forget to sign earlier?)[reply]
thanks for that - I hadn't heard of that, and my small Spanish dictionary seems to suggest that "raza" means "breed", which didn't help much. Grutness...wha? 22:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The La Raza stub will be deleted soon enough, and is only serving as a redirect for pages that were created before the name change. The stub is not used for people who are Mexican-American or Chicano, but rather for topics related to Mexican-American and Chicano issues (the reason for the two terms is that there is a distinct difference for many people, although your dictionary may not mention it). I feel seperate categories for issues relating to history, music, art, language, etc would be great, but unfortunately, there are only a handful of articles dealing with topics relevant to Chicanos and Mexican-Americans on Wikipedia currently. If anything, maybe the existence of this template should be taken as incentive to write more articles! --Bfraga 00:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps to keep people out of it, the template should say "This non-biographical Mexican-American/Chicano-related article...", with a note on the category that it's not for people? If it's to be kept, it could use a shorter name. Given that the main category is Category:Mexican Americans, I'd suggest using that for the template and category, if it's kept. --Mairi 06:11, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete spliting stubs by race is going to cut across too many catagoiries and make a mess of things. BL kiss the lizard 04:11, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
In response, there are too few articles to justify your statement that it will "make a mess of things." Once a good number of articles relating to Chicano and Mexican-American topics are written, more specific stubs will be written. But until them, it only makes addding to Chicano/Mexican-American articles difficult. --Bfraga 05:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
then delete it becuase it hasnt enough stubs. if it had more it would definately cross the heirarchy as i said (and others did too). BL kiss the lizard 05:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
But if it doesn't have enough stubs to cause an issue, then how could it be...causing...an...issue...? --Bfraga 23:22, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
For a stub category to be useful for editors, it needs to have a reasonable population of stubs - that's why no new categories are created until there are at least a few dozen stubs for them (the usual threshold for creation is about 60). Yet, as the AfricanAmerican category below shows, this sort of category can cut across the hierarchy quite badly with less than ten stubs. If this category had enough stubs to be viable in terms of numbers, it would clash basly with existing categories. If it had few enough not to clash badly, it wouldn't have enough to be useful to editors. Grutness...wha? 23:57, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
There are many articles that should have this stub tag that do not. If I were to mark them all, the category would be quite populous. Shall I? FWIW, I think the Mex-Am./Chic stub may be helpful for the members of WikiProject Mexican-Americans/Chicanos.--Rockero420 18:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
As I pointed out above, if you do, it'll clash badly with existing categories and cause a lot of problems with stub-sorting in general. Grutness...wha? 23:25, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep -- this is part of an ongoing WikiProject. Joaquin Murietta 14:13, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really see where this will clash any more strongly than the proposed stub for Aboriginal Canadians. I'm not at all happy with the name of the stub template but that's a separate problem from the existence of this stub. Since the non stub category is simply Category:Mexican Americans rename to {{MexicanAmerican-stub}} & Category:Mexican American stubs with potential redirects from the alternate names {{Chicano-stub}} and/or {{Mexican-American/Chicano-stub}} if the WikiProject wants them. Caerwine Caerwhine 15:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Not the same thing. That one is for ethnic groups throughout Canada, and therefore can fit quite well within the current Canadian categories. This is for one specific ethnic group which crosses national boundaries and for the individual people within it. I would have no objection to a US-ethnic-stub to cover all ethnic groups within the United States, but there is a suggestion with this stub that (a) it would also deal with individual people (crossing the various occupation categories) and also - in the case of La Raza - would deal with people outside the US. If the scope of this stub was modified, it might be usable, but in its present form it's a bit too messy. Grutness...wha? 06:27, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Category:La Raza stubs deleted. No other action taken. Conscious 14:26, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

December 20th

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{{Television-stub}}

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Karmafist strikes again. At least this one is better named, but weak delete, since it's still unnecessary. Grutness...wha? 07:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

December 30th

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{{Austria-hist-stub}} and {{Ireland-hist-stub}}

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Since these two stubs were created a month ago, they've had little use. The first is currently on only 4 articles, the latter on three. Unless someone knows of some serious sorting to be done somewhere, or has a mjor WikiProject on the way, these should probably be subsumed into the parent category. --EncycloPetey 15:01, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

{{sfd-t}} wasn't added to either of these. I have done that now. --TheParanoidOne 06:49, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I'd recommend adding a note on the To Do page, so that perhaps another interested soul could make a start on sorting. --EncycloPetey 02:20, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

December 31st

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{{Electric-loco-stub}} / Category:Electric locomotive stubs

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Created on October 22, used on 12 articles. Merge to its parent, {{loco-stub}} (also poorly populated). Conscious 18:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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