Talk:Ukraine

Geography of Ukraine

The area of Ukraine and it's demographics are clearly not up to date with the changes in recent years and recent months. It's still considered as it was before russian annexation of Crimea and Donbas. Perhaps this is a matter to be taken in consideration. 2A02:2F01:8E08:3B00:F1:6416:C98D:A1F (talk) 12:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

The area of Ukraine and ITS (not IT'S) demographics. So what are you suggesting? That we rewrite Wikipedia to ratify the Putinist position that Crimea and Donbas are Russia, not Ukraine? Perhaps you'd like to try the Russian Wikipedia first. Uporządnicki (talk) 13:42, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Ack! Someone removed OP's (or is it VP's?) gaslighting, doublespeak response--and created an edit conflict with my own brilliant retort. Uporządnicki (talk) 14:16, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

I guess it depends -- does Wikipedia recognize de facto reality or de jure reality?

De facto -- the Donbas are part of Russia (annexed) just as assuredly as the Golan Heights are part of Israel.

De jure -- few states will recognize the annexation

Question -- the US never really recognized the incorporation of the Baltic states into the USSR following WW2. Did Wikipedia show a map with the de facto reality (i.e. part of USSR) or the USA de jure reality (still independent but occupied)?

The answer should guide action here. Chesspride216.144.161.51 (talk) 18:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Please use correct formatting and indentation and take a look into WP's history. Rsk6400 (talk) 19:20, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

National anthem

Please replace the anthem audio with one of these authentic (performed by Ukrainian orchestras) renditions: Президентський_оркестр_Гімн.ogg or Anthem_of_Ukraine_instrumental.ogg. VSL (talk) 01:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

A change like this one would need consensus. The audio file that is currently in the article is a performance by Veryovka Ukrainian Folk Choir, an authentic Ukrainian musical group. This group has even been recognized with a stamp in their honor. So they clearly qualify as sufficiently Ukrainian. EdJohnston (talk) 23:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

@EdJohnston You are not right. Check the current audio. VSL (talk) 23:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Oh I see; what we have here currently is the US Navy band. But, if you want to replace the present recording with a different one, how about choosing a choral version rather than instrumental? The US Navy version is instrumental. The one by the Veryovka choir in State Anthem of Ukraine gives you a sung version of the anthem plus English subtitles for the words. The two new .ogg files that you propose above are once again just instrumental. EdJohnston (talk) 01:48, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

There is also a more complete 1916 vocal performing: Ukrainian_national_anthem_1916_(complete).ogg

So a poll may be taken here for which version (or two versions: instrumental and vocal) to include:

Президентський_оркестр_Гімн.ogg

File:Anthem of Ukraine instrumental.ogg Anthem_of_Ukraine_instrumental.ogg

File:Anthem-of-Ukraine Chorus Veryovka.ogg Anthem-of-Ukraine_Chorus_Veryovka.ogg

Ukrainian_national_anthem_1916_(complete).ogg

VSL (talk) 04:22, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Currently the last one (1916 complete) is tagged as public domain. For the other 3 I'm unsure which of the copyright exemptions these fall under. "works of folk art (folklore)"? CMD (talk) 04:54, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Brest-Litovsk treaties in history section?

It seems in the history section there is no mention of the Brest-Litovsk treaty (between Russia and the Central Powers), or the separate Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (Ukraine–Central Powers), both of which recognized the independence of Ukraine by the Central Powers. The treaties were later nullified upon German surrender, however they still happened. Is there a particular reason these are not included? NoN33d4UserNames (talk) 01:16, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Since the Ukrainian People's Republic (UNR) of 1918-21 was the first Ukrainian state, the national flag of which is still used today, it is so important for Ukrainian history, that it needs a better representation than it has by now. As the article stands, the UNR is presented as a chaotic failure, but we should at least notice that it gained international recognition by the treaties you mentioned. Rsk6400 (talk) 07:37, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, though reading the materials, the period is indeed extremely chaotic, possibly even more so than described in the current article. For example, according to the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (Ukraine–Central Powers) article, during the treaty the UNR/UPR lost control of Kiev, and then later regained it. Then somehow as far as I understood the central powers turned on the UNR, and the people of the UNR were also unhappy. Meanwhile the Russian Civil War was happening. According to Ukrainian war of independence Poland also took various sides (once attacking to annex Galicia, then helping against the Bolsheviks). This is not to mention the transition from UPR to UNR, i.e. the coup, and other internal struggles. Definitely more happened than is written in that section. NoN33d4UserNames (talk) 16:56, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

UNR is the same as UPR, the first one is the abbreviation of the Ukrainian name, the second one of the English name. The history was chaotic, but there is a line of continuity from the central rada (council / parliament) of 1917 to the UNR until 1921, and that's an important point for the interpretation of Ukrainian history - modern Ukraine was not formed by Lenin (as Putin claims), but by the central rada which has its roots in a strong national movement that goes back to the 19th century and built on traditions from the Middle Ages and the Early Modern Period. Rsk6400 (talk) 18:10, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, I confused the UNR with the Ukrainian State, which is the name change after the coup. I believe the "People's Republic of ..." is a common translation for the name "Наро́дна Респу́бліка". For example, the current name of the PRC in Ukrainian is "Народна Республіка Китай". The word "народна" is similar yet rather different than "national". The word "народ" is more like "people". There is a separate word for "national", which is "національний" (natsional'nyi). I will open a discussion regarding this in the UPR page. NoN33d4UserNames (talk) 18:44, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Culture

Hello, regarding the Culture section, would it be possible to update the number of sites listed on the World Heritage List? Here are the updated information, and I think it would also be interesting to mention the 247 sites whose damage has been verified by UNESCO, as well as the addition of the Odesa centre to the list of world heritage in danger. Could an editor give their opinion and make the changes that you think are relevant? Thank you very much. E.poul (talk) 21:46, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I have changed the number to 8 but will leave someone else to decide the rest (exact text is in sandbox link above) Chidgk1 (talk) 14:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 April 2023

Change the arrow color indicating population movement from red to grey. So change it from Decrease to NeutralDecrease. As1999610 (talk) 02:29, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Done as although many would consider the decrease to be a bad thing it could be argued that it is good that so many people have been able to leave Chidgk1 (talk) 14:40, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

GDP

Current update of GDP 2023 is almost the same and all the war??? Wow if this was an African country its per capita income would have been below 100$ now. Bullshit bullshit bullshit. You people purposely like to maintain Europe or white countries on top and downgrade and quick to downgrade and stagnant African countries Nlivataye (talk) 16:33, 12 April 2023 (UTC)