Jump to content

Talk:Russo-Ukrainian War

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 189.219.230.116 (talk) at 17:00, 1 May 2023 (→‎Independent Ukraine, a loaded term: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:Vital article

Biased towards Ukraine

CLOSED
Not productive. —Michael Z. 15:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

the general tone of the article is biased towards Ukraine 87.212.196.214 (talk) 09:40, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In what way? Slatersteven (talk) 17:49, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If anything the tone is restrained and mild.  // Timothy :: talk  01:24, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Splitting proposal: 2014 war

NO ACTION
This proposal is not likely to gain consensus in favor and has been open for more than two weeks. (non-admin closure) —Ganesha811 (talk) 16:45, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I propose that the section about the first phase of the Russo-Ukrainian war (untill February 2015) be split into a separate page called first phase of the Russo-Ukrainian war or 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine or 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine or Russian invasion of Crimea adn Donbas or propose your name. See also [1]. These sections are large and well-sourced enough to make its own page.

This page is about the whole war from 2014 till now. We have an article about the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, but it was the second invasion of this war. The first was in 2014, and information about it is scattered between Russo-Ukrainian War, Timeline of the war in Donbas (2014), Timeline of the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and others. Skovl (talk) 18:36, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are already subordinate articles to this one on three main subtopics: Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation, War in Donbas (2014–2022), and Russian invasion of Ukraine. If a further subdivision makes sense, then it is to split or break down in summary style the War in Donbas article, although it could be broken down into three sections: the “New Russia” insurgency phase of May–August 2014, the Russian invasion of August 2014–February 2015 (especially battles of Ilovaisk and Debaltseve), and the conflict around the Minsk line of contact, February 2015–February 2022.  —Michael Z. 23:49, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose 2014 Russian invasion of Crimea and Donbas was already created by the nom and speedy deleted (WP:A10) noting: Articles exist for Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and War in Donbas (2014–2022)‎. See here for notice. WP:A10 is an article that duplicates an existing topic. There is no reasonable reason to have an article 2014 Russian invasion of Crimea and Donbas when we have Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and War in Donbas (2014–2022). Cinderella157 (talk) 00:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Mainly because should be thought out. Here are some thoughts (some echo above):
  • Eventually (sadly) the article will need to be trimmed down to accomodate new material (not saying when it should, just eventually), but a simple chronological spliting is not a good solution.
  • A Summary-subtopic (parent-child) organization I think is better than a straight chronological split. This should remain the "top" level article and it should become a summary of each major "X" of the war. Then sub articles can be organized, then created and improved.
  • We should keep in mind what would be the best experience for the reader. Right now it isn't optimal, but not bad.
  • This all should be thought and planned out ahead of any changes, so that chaos and edit wars do not errupt.
This is one of the best covered events on Wikipedia, care should be taken not to diminish that.  // Timothy :: talk  01:52, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One set of articles covers the general topic of assistance to a nation; however the articles are general, and do not 'spring to life' without a specific event to interest the reader, such as this article. For example, at the national government level, from the viewpoint of a head of state:
-- Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 10:53, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why Russo-Ukrainian War instead of Russian-Ukrainian War?

Why is the title of this article Russo-Ukrainian War instead of Russian-Ukrainian War? – Treetoes023 (talk) 22:23, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Both are in use,[2] so why not? Look at this talk page headers and archives for the details.  —Michael Z. 00:05, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mzajac: I searched the archives and the term Russian-Ukrainian War only appears a few times, and when it does appear there is no reason given why this article isn't named Russian-Ukrainian War. It appears that Russian-Ukrainian War is the common name of this subject so should a move be requested? – Treetoes023 (talk) 00:40, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you find evidence that it is the single most commonly used name, or you probably won’t get much support. My Ngram search linked above seems to indicate it is not used significantly more than the current title. Unless there is a clear advantage to the move, it likely won’t fly. Review the previous move discussions listed in the last header at the top of this talk page to see how they work.  —Michael Z. 00:54, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mzajac: I checked Google Books and Russo-Ukrainian War has more results than Russian-Ukrainian War, so the move is definitely a no-go. – Treetoes023 (talk) 15:22, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 April 2023

Need to add Viktor Muzhenko to Ukrainian commanders. He was a Chief of the General Staff and Commander-in-Chief of Armed forces in 2014-2019 PaBro2906 (talk) 20:50, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Actualcpscm (talk) 23:01, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here’s a source to his appointment as CoGS.[3]  —Michael Z. 23:33, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: The inclusion is not supported by the body of the article. Furthermore, the number of commanders already exceeds the limit per template documentation. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:55, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 April 2023

I want to note the foreign support of Ukraine at the front of the page, in order to make it more user friendly and easier to note and realize ByzantineIsNotRoman (talk) 19:50, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Lizthegrey (talk) 22:28, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Independent Ukraine, a loaded term

Since people do not tend to talk about an 'Independent' France, Germany or USA, why are is this word being used in relation to the Ukraine? If the article is to be considered natural, should it not avoid questionable or loaded terms? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.2.120 (talk) 19:01, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's only used in the background section to contrast the newly independent Ukraine with the previous period, so I don't see much of an issue here. Alaexis¿question? 19:31, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is true, but it still reflects a bias, because no one ever refers to “independent Russia” after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The contrasting usage falsely implies that the Soviet Union became Russia, while other republics had been its chattel.  —Michael Z. 22:02, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It seems biased on your part to skip the entire history of forced Russification suffered by the republics of the USSR, where Russia played a central and controlling role towards the other republics. 189.219.230.116 (talk) 17:00, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 April 2023

change A. Zakharchenko
(2014–2018) to A. Zakharchenko †
(2014–2018) Sergey Aksyonov (talk) 01:02, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He wasn’t killed in action. He was assassinated.  —Michael Z. 02:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 06:51, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 April 2023 (2)

change A. Zakharchenko to A. Zakharchenko X Sergey Aksyonov (talk) 02:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Has been removed from infobox per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE - not mentioned in body of article. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removing the Maidan Revolution image

Despite the war starting on the 20th of February, 2 days before the ousting of Yanukovych, the Revolution wasn’t part of the war. We should remove that image. TankDude2000 (talk) 08:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The image doesn’t picture part of the war and it wasn’t even shot during the war.
Replace it with an image of Girkin’s Russian irregulars storming government buildings in Sloviansk, which was the actual start of the war in Donbas.  —Michael Z. 15:12, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. HappyWith (talk) 15:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 April 2023

it is also proved that Russian troops carried out the looting of world cultural property

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/01/14/these-are-some-of-the-most-famous-ukrainian-works-of-art-looted-by-russia/?sh=323dfd989b77 Dmytro1888UAZOV1888 (talk) 07:39, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Russo-Ukrainian_War&oldid=1152677932"