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The World Factbook estimate

Name of language

Dari is not a language but a dialect.The name of language is Persian or Farsi[1] [2]Simsala111 (talk) 19:30, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.omniglot.com/writing/dari.htm

References

  1. ^ https://www.britannica.com/topic/Dari-language
  2. ^ https://www.omniglot.com/writing/dari.htm
Yes you are technically right but then, Tajik language is also another dialect of Persian, yet it uses "language". In conclusion, I think if the majority of the speakers and their respective governmets refer to their dialects as "languages" then we should have no problem with it. Khestwol (talk) 05:02, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hypercorrection. Imagine being interested in languages, genuinely, and then attempting to force languages into boxes.
A language is a dialect with an army and navy implies that it is not a language, because Afghanistan doesn't have a navy (joke).
Dialect continuum#Persian briefly covers the specific point of Persian, Tajik and Dari. Forcing the English word, language/dialect/variety/accent, is just wrong. When I tell children to "watch your language", I certainly don't mean to that false precision.
I would personally prefer Tajik Persian, and Dari/Afghan Persian to avoid the "language" word. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:30, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@SmokeyJoe: Moving this article from "Dari (Persian dialect)" to Dari language was a mistake.[1] The move request was opened by User:Krzyhorse22; a sockpuppet of disruptive sockmaster User:Lagoo sab. Only two support votes plus a weak rationale. We should move this article to a more proper name and remove that "language" from the title. That's all. --Wario-Man (talk) 08:00, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: There is limited support for Afghan Persian. The more concise term of Dari was supported by the majority in this discussion and also by several editors in the recent discussion at Talk:Dari_(disambiguation)#Requested move 14 October 2019. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:44, 6 November 2019 (UTC) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:45, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dari language → Dari – Dari is not a language and it's a dialect/variety of Persian language. Calling Dari a language is similar to call American English and British language as American language and British language. The previous move request was opened by User:Krzyhorse22; a sockpuppet of disruptive sockmaster User:Lagoo sab (he was/is well-known for his nationalistic and ethnocentric edits). A weak rationale based on non-linguistic sources and personal POV + only two votes. Plus Dari already redirects here and it's a common name of this dialect in English sources. Wario-Man (talk) 10:19, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • language/dialect/variety arguments are more disruptive than useful. The terms are not well defined.
Dari from Persian is a much bigger difference than American/British. But these points are accepted.
Dari points here true, but Dari is akin to jargon. Jargon terms redirect to their topic, but that doesn’t mean topics should be moved to the jargon terms. Therefore Oppose this specific proposal.
Counter propose Afghan Persian, the dominant term in English language sources, and miles ahead in terms of RECOGNIZABILITY. And it nicely classifies the “language” (small l) as Persian, which probably the most important thing to know about this language. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:31, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm OK with "Afghan Persian" because scholars like Gernot Windfuhr use that term.[2] My whole point is that we should remove that "language" from the title. Dari, Afghan Persian, XYZ Persian, Dari (XYZ), or any other proper and common name is acceptable. So I wait for other users' comments and their arguments. --Wario-Man (talk) 13:33, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The naked "Dari" is ambiguous. Dari (disambiguation) includes several other topics unrelated to the language or the country, and there will be readers familiar with this other Dari for whom they would have no idea about the Afghan language/dialect/variety. There are also a great many other topics, couscous, carpets, where "Dari" is routinely used as a local primary topic. Afghan Persian has no such problems. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:54, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Avoid writing nonsense like "the proposal seems to be politically biased". How my rationale is politically biased?! Where is the bias especially the so-called political part? Didn't you read my reply to SmokeyJoe's comment? Didn't you see the link to Gernot Windfuhr's work? How Afghan government and Afghans are related to a linguistic discussion on WP? If Afghan gov decides to call Dari as Martian language someday, should we use it then?! Or we should follow the opinions of experts, linguists, and scholars? If article XYZ (in this cas eTajik language) has some issues, it's not related to this article. Every article has its own story and we review each article individually. We fix articles one by one. You just recycled your old comment[3]; but adding some kind of personal attack to beginning of it this time. The Serbo-Croatian example is a weak argument. Have you seen Varieties of Arabic? None of them uses "language" in their titles. Why do you think Dari language is more accurate than Dari or Afghan Persian? Per what sources? Per what academic/scholary linguistic works? --Wario-Man (talk) 18:12, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. Actually, as of 2008 and after that, "Dari language" is the most common unambiguous term (see Google Books Ngram link). Khestwol (talk) 20:00, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment about the counter proposal: in my opinion, "Afghan Persian" seems more to be a description of the language rather than the name of the language. For the official language of Tajikistan, the name is Tajik language, not "Tajik Persian". Also, the closing admin can keep it in their mind that the Constitution of Afghanistan says Pashto and Dari shall be the official languages of the state and it refers to the language as Dari, not "Afghan Persian". Khestwol (talk) 20:00, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Did you even read Wario-Man's reply to you up above? --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:12, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously you didn't read my comments and ignored my questions & points. You just repeated your above comment. Constitution of Afghanistan (political stuff) and Tajik language (just another WP article) are irrelevant here. --Wario-Man (talk) 09:07, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"a political term used for the various dialects of the Persian language spoken in Afghanistan"

If that's what the sources say, fine; but there's something about the lede that bothers me. Lingusticially speaking, is Dari any less of an independent language than any of the Scandinavian languages? Norwegian could also be considered a "political term used for the various dialects of the Scandinavian language spoken in Norway". Or is spoken Dari and Farsi much more similar than spoken Norwegian and Danish? Ornilnas (talk) 07:20, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think what bothers me is the wording "political term". For example, the sources that support calling Serbo-Croatian a "language" ultimately rely largely on politics (see Declaration on the Common Language) rather than pure linguistics. I don't support inserting the wording "political term" into the article ledes on Norwegian or Serbo-Croatian, but is there a solid reason why we use it here? Ornilnas (talk) 07:38, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The various Serbo-Croatian dialects are called "a standardized variety" (or "normative variety" for Montenegrin language) in their respective ledes. Could this work for Dari? Is it standardized? Ornilnas (talk) 08:06, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Ornilnas: Dari in Eastern Afghanistan is different, but are people in, say, Herat, actually speaking Dari? Or are they speaking a much more recent form of Persian brought by the Persians during, say, yhe 1860s Persian rule? --95.24.62.202 (talk) 16:23, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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