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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Frunk10 (talk | contribs) at 13:55, 6 November 2023 (→‎Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2023 (2): Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

New photos of Ahed

I just uploaded two photos/portraits of Ahed.. Ggia (talk)

That photo is awful. It’s from when she got out of prison. It needs to be changed. 

Marissamcl (talk) 21:23, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Instagram account suspended following call to butcher civilians

The article should include the fact her Instagram account (@ahed_tamimi15) was suspended on Oct 31st 2023, during the 2023 Israeli-Hamas war, following a story she uploaded saying in Hebrew and Arabic: "Our message to the flocks of settlers: we're waiting for you in all the West Bank cities, from Hebron to Jenin. We will butcher you and you will say that what Hitler did to you was a joke. We will drink your blood and we will eat your skulls. Advance, we're waiting for you."


Source: https://twitter.com/aradboaz/status/1719103795836158350 Liav.teichner (talk) 08:34, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Eladkarmel (talk) 09:10, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Undone. Find a source that provides some evidence. Note that the only evidence that Maariv provides is someone's tweet. Also, Tamimi is entitled to the special rules regarding negative statements about living people, and I am entitled to enforce them. Zerotalk 13:28, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The evidence is a print screen of her now disabled personal account.
The news are already making way through free media:
https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israelhamas-conflict-grim-fate-of-german-tattoo-artist-thought-to-have-been-kidnapped-by-hamas-revealed/news-story/e758830dc9df876451bc234073532d60 Liav.teichner (talk) 14:52, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure where news.com.au sits in the news hierarchy but I'd quite like to see a GREL WP:RSP report it, having confirmed that it's real, and the account hadn't been hacked, etc., before we go messing around with a BLP - especially given the through the roof levels of disinformation currently circulating at this time. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:43, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please note sources such as Jerusalem Post and Mako confirm this as well.
[1][2] Homerethegreat (talk) 19:45, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thats been responded to. They confirm there is somebody on Twitter saying she said this. That remains gossip. nableezy - 19:52, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:BLP this exceptional claim requires much better sourcing than this. And per BLP, this cannot be restored absent an explicit consensus for it here, see WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE. This is a collection of poor sources engaging in hearsay, and it is not acceptable in a BLP. nableezy - 16:28, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Iskandar323. And the twit linked above is dead and apparently improperly archived. The best primary source would be an archived link of Tamimi's post. But still, there's the possibility of account hacking, which Tamimi will have to assert herself.
Some criticized the sources reliability profusely, I'd like to see examples of bad reporting from them (not opinionated pieces; actual disinformation). –Daveout(talk) 16:34, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If those are the best sources (which rank right up there with the Sun, Daily mail, etc) that's pretty sad. Selfstudier (talk) 17:08, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Which one are you referring to? Could you please link the community discussion? –Daveout(talk) 17:20, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dovidroth if you do not self-revert I am going to report the BLP and ARBPIA violation very soon. You may not restore material with a good faith BLP violation claim without consensus. Self-revert or be reported, up to you. nableezy - 16:43, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If the report is correct, then it will almost certainly be pursued with great tenacity by her many foreign critics, and the necessary details will emerge. But as pointed out, an exceptional claim on a BLP page requires multiple, independent sourcing (not meme reproduction). It's not a question of censorship. If it can be reliably shown she said that, no one on wiki would stand by with toilet paper when the shit hits her fan(s). So I'm reverting until the full picture emerges. This caution is particularly important given that we are in a no-holds-barred war with reflexes in social media warring, not excluding hacking. Nishidani (talk) 17:52, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, if this is true it will be picked up in more mainstream sources. Right now there are sources reporting that users on Twitter are saying Tamimi wrote these things. If that becomes high quality sources actually reporting she actually wrote these things then yes that should be included. But this simply does not reach that bar. nableezy - 18:54, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"picked up in more mainstream sources":
TaBaZzz (talk) 20:09, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like we have different understandings of the word "mainstream". i24, INN are definitely not that. Maariv is sure, but that still is just based on Boaz Arad on twitter. nableezy - 20:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And for the record, your comments on the other 3 ? TaBaZzz (talk) 20:32, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unfamiliar with Ice entirely, Mako closer to the INN side than the Maariv side, same for Walla. But I dont think any of these reach the bar for inclusion here, if this is actually real we are going to find out shortly, likely with an arrest and with international sources. I dont feel that these sources repeating the same hearsay suddenly merits inclusion, all of this is based on a twitter making unconfirmed claims about a supposed private story post. nableezy - 20:37, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please explain "repeating the same hearsay suddenly merits inclusion". TaBaZzz (talk) 20:48, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They are all reporting on the twitter of Boaz Arad saying that Tamimi wrote this stuff. There is zero actual confirmation. BLPs should avoid these feedback loops, see Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Avoid gossip and feedback loops. nableezy - 20:54, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And, as Zero wrote in the initial revert, Israeli Jews are being arrested for less. Has Tamimi been arrested for incitement? nableezy - 20:56, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Follow the RSs. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:A0BC:F130:EB66:4FA8 (talk) 21:41, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And say that a twitter account by an unknown person in Berlin is claiming that Ahed Tamimi posted a Nazi inspired tirade on her private instagram? nableezy - 22:16, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So, after a police inquiry into her inciting words, an arrest was made. Now does this justify its inclusion in the article? Saydale (talk) 09:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
At the time I'm writing this, it's in the article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:32, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-771102 should suffice as a mainstream source with considerable reputation. Hellojed (talk) 09:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the fact that they have to admit the story is only "according to Israeli media" and features the same tweet as the only evidence shows that they failed to independently verify the story. That counts against it. Zerotalk 10:20, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
According to all the other mainstream media reports which include screenshots of her message, there is no reason to not include it in the article. Together with Instagram restricting her account. Over 7 independent verifications are enough for inclusion. dov (talk) 15:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are zero independent verifications, this is all based on the same screenshot from the same tweet by an unknown person in Berlin. It absolutely is not what is needed to include in the WP:BLP of Tamimi that she made a Nazi inspired tirade. If this is true, there will be real confirmation of it, and not just rumor. nableezy - 19:02, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not only Israeli media. A greek source also confirms [3]
And news not established in Israel such as [4],[5]
And note that it isn't just based on this Boaz person. Homerethegreat (talk) 19:49, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One of them is shaky. But the other two seem fine enough. Homerethegreat (talk) 19:51, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is also based on David Collier lol. I dont know what is not clear here, you cant say a living person went on a Nazi tirade with sourcing this shaky. If it is true there will be actual confirmation of it, not just rumors repeated based on the same unreliable twitter of some random person on the internet. nableezy - 19:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Noting that the WP:SPECTATOR thinks the insta-thing should be included:[6] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:06, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
no, an op-ed by an unknown person thinks that, and thats not the UK Spectator that RSP is about. nableezy - 16:18, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, both Spectators have the same WP-article anyway. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:42, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless, Hava Mendelle isnt a reliable source, and given she says she has started editing Wikipedia it almost seems like an off-wiki CANVASSING attempt more than any type of analysis. nableezy - 17:48, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's also just meta-commentary on this discussion. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:43, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I did like Harrison's recent article on WP and the Gaza war better, but it's a somewhat interesting perspective. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:52, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A good summary of the last three weeks. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, having read both, per Mendelle, I should now be protected from distortion from whichever the left-wing article is. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:18, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Meme replication is commonplace here, - as we saw in the 40 babies beheaded instance, so we need mainstream English sources, which will certainly pick it up since Tamimi's story is often discussed in them, esp. anything negative.Nishidani (talk) 22:20, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Already by last Sunday, 24 people had been charged with "incitement to terrorism", mostly for social media posts. There are even Jews among them, which is unusual since most such charges are made against Arabs. If and when Tamimi is charged, we can report that she has been charged (but not, per BLP, that she is guilty). Zerotalk 03:10, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if those eager to add this unverified allegation will hasten to add the directly reported tweet of Galit Distel-Atbaryan : "Erase Gaza from the face of the earth. Let the Gazan monsters rush to the southern border and flee into Egypt, or die. And let them die badly. Gaza should be wiped off the map, and fire and brimstone on the heads of the Nazis in Judea and Samaria. Jewish wrath to shake the earth around the world. We need a cruel, vengeful IDF here. Anything less is immoral."[7] Zerotalk 11:11, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

she aint say that shit

she got hacked 174.215.242.103 (talk) 20:21, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

do you have a source? I've been trying to get in touch with her or her co-author, but no response. Liav.teichner (talk) 13:12, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Details of her conviction by Israel

In the article it is described that she was convicted, among other things, of incitement. At the same time, without detailing the reasons for the conviction - it is implied that she is innocent or at the very least that she was convicted without any legally solid reasons. I would like to add one of the testimonies for her conviction for incitement, her saying: "Our strength is in our stone - I hope the whole world will unite, so that we can free Palestine. Because Trump's decision is a decision that has been made, they have to bear its consequences with any Palestinian reaction that comes - whether stabbing attacks, suicide bomb attacks, throwing stones, everyone needs to do something so that we can unite on the path, which, if Allah wills, will be the liberation of Palestine." sources (including video of her saying this): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCXoHzX8LEs (Kan11) https://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/528779 (Maariv) and more. Saydale (talk) 13:24, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is an editing restriction on this page which prevents you from making the change yourself, although you can suggest the change be made by a qualified editor. YouTube won't generally be accepted as a source but I am unsure about Israel Hayom. Is the translation accurate? Burrobert (talk) 13:44, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I am suggesting. The Youtube soruce was of a mainstream news channel in Israel. This is the same report from the channel website itself: https://www.kan.org.il/content/kan-news/defense/231977/
The translation is almost verbatim from what she said in the video. There are many reports saying that she was convicted, among other things, because of these terror-supported words. Saydale (talk) 09:15, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Arrested by idf

Here are two sources, https://m.maariv.co.il/news/military/Article-1050109

The Hebrew wiki already got updated. Why are you taking so much time? 201.207.0.74 (talk) 06:25, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This contradicts the theory that she is a human rights activist, as cognitive dissonance takes time to have an effect. Saydale (talk) 09:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can only speak for myself, but I was sleeping. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:46, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the edit. Yet, it is hard not to be amazed by the bias that is reflected of what is written. "The arrest followed Israeli media reports of a post on her Instagram account that had threatened settlers in the West Bank". One might mistakenly think that she was arrested for the crime of ordinary angry words, which any of us can experience. As if it is not, in fact, wishes for an agonizing death and words of praise and praise for Hitler's actions. I believe that adding the literal content of the post, combined with the claims of the Tamimi family ("Tamimi's mother stated that there were "dozens of (online) pages in Ahed's name with her photo, with which she has no connection" "), brings both sides In an optimal and neutral way - as Wikipedia strives for. 31.154.45.114 (talk) 13:03, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2023

on october 31st 2023, during the Israel Hamas war, Tamimi posted on her instagram page: our messege to all settelers: we are waiting for you from Hevron till Jenin. We will slughter you and you will say that hitler wasd a joke. We will drink your blood and eat your skull. come on, we are waiting for you" following that antisemitic post, Tamimi got arrested by the IDF on november 6th. 212.117.143.250 (talk) 11:02, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BLPCRIME. nableezy - 13:43, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Early life section

I think we should get something well sourced on her mother in there, her name seems to be in several sources (also in the article already), so I don't think it's a WP:BLP problem per se. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2023 (2)

In the sentence "Israeli soldiers arrested Tamimi in Nabi Salih on 6 November 2023 for "inciting terrorism".", add the word allegedly before "inciting terrorism". The quote marks are doing a lot of heavy lifting here and the word allegedly is better to use in a developing situation. Frunk10 (talk) 12:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I tweaked the sentence with a new ref. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:37, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
thanks that's much better Frunk10 (talk) 13:55, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2023 (3)

Ahed Tamimi posted on social media the following statement which led to her arrest: "Come on settlers, we will slaughter you. We are waiting for you in all the cities of the West Bank. What Hitler did to you was nothing. We will drink your blood and eat your skulls. We are waiting for you" 109.186.212.123 (talk) 12:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Its been denied, we document shes been arrested and charged but we cannot say she committed a crime absent a conviction per BLPCRIME. nableezy - 13:43, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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