User talk:Alex B4

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Apology

Sorry mate, didn’t realise I overwrote you with a conflicting edit on Dennis Skinner. SpaceFox99 (talk) 00:19, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Glenda Jackson

Is she not The Hon? If not, why not? Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 03:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Common misunderstanding. The Honourable and Right Honourable are unrelated to whether one is a parliamentarian or minister. The Honourable is used for children of nobility. The Right Honourable is used for members of the Privy Council (or as a written courtesy title for peers). The Honourable is used in the House of Commons chamber between members but is only used in speech. Alex 16:11, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

How interesting. Australian parliamentary practice follows the UK's in many ways, but not all, apparently. Like in the UK, members in the House are referred to as "The Honourable Member for <Wherever>", but they get The Hon as a personal prenominal only if they've been appointed to the Federal Executive Council, which is a constitutional requirement before one can be appointed a Minister of State or Parliamentary Secretary. Once an Executive Councillor, the person remains The Hon for life, because they technically remain an Executive-Councillor-on-call, even decades after they've retired from public life. Appointments to the Privy Council haven't been possible since the passage of the Australia Acts in 1986, but existing members retain The Rt Hon for life, and there are still a few stragglers left.

So, you're saying that a UK minister who is not a member of the Privy Council is just plain "Mr, Mrs or Ms Whoever", not "The Hon Whoever"? Thanks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, and I've been similarly confused by examples of these things in the Australian, New Zealand and Canadian political systems. Alex 00:26, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. Most enlightening. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:53, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

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Your signature

Howdy hello! A heads up: your signature, or at least the version I saw at WP:RFPP, did not have any links in it. That's no bueno, you signature needs to link to both your user page and talk page in some manner, otherwise it won't be picked up by all sorts of bots or scripts, and isn't very useful to other editors. If you need help with that, leave a note on my talk page. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 16:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek Done. Thanks for picking me up on that and thanks for granting protection on the article. Alex (Talk) 16:17, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Ed Balls

This revert was a false positive on my part; that page gets his frequently with vandalism to do with the subject's name (silly variants on it, etc). I see now that you were simply trying to standardize caption formats, my apologies. Cheers, OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 13:06, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Thank you for your work on splitting out Blair ministry. It had been on my list for ages, but I could never get around to doing it. Bravo! RGloucester — ☎ 14:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The Rt. Hon.

Thanks for your message. Unless I am missing something, the article supports my edit. Could you please indicate how Woodcock qualifies for the title? SW1APolitico (talk) 20:14, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

No problem. I am aware it is pretty confusing for those unfamiliar with the naming convention. He is a member of the House of Lords so is entitled to the title. I am aware he is not a member of the Privy Council which is why he does not have PC as a post nominal. Alex (talk) 13:46, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Angela Rayner - Deputy Leader of the Opposition

I saw you reverted my edits on Angela Rayner article. In fact, Rayner does hold the position of ‘Deputy Leader of the Opposition’ and I have an official source backing that up - Rayner’s page on the UK Parliament site: https://members.parliament.uk/member/4356/career Ciaran.london (talk) 10:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ciaran.london: Hmm, interestingly neither parliament.uk or theyworkforyou list her as Shadow First Secretary of State. Maybe merge in the infobox to make: [[Leader of the Opposition (United Kingdom)|Deputy Leader of the Opposition]]<br />[[Shadow First Secretary of State]]? (Especially since Tom Watson didn't actually hold the office, I've checked lol) Let me know what you think. Alex (talk) 14:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh that’s unusual and very weird! 🤔 okay, I’ll merge the box now. I thought Tom Watson did (as he was the Deputy Leader of the Opposition party) but obviously not.

And sorry I didn’t mean to cause an edit war in Rayner’s article! Ciaran.london (talk) 22:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ciaran.london: No worries. I'm just going to re-order the roles in the infobox as well to make the order consistent with the lead, and add a footnote as well. Alex (talk) 00:27, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Ciaran.london (talk) 21:10, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

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John Reid

Alex B4, please don't edit the article on John Reid. I like it. It is very clean and beautiful.

Kind Regards,

Andrei-Williams-2005

@Andrei-Williams-2005: I'm afraid though in that form, it violated WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE which stipulates infoboxes should be concise, as well as MOS:OVERLINK and MOS:CAPS. Alex (talk) 23:26, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

5 December

Alex B4, please stop deleting the term "Shadowing" from Chris Smith, if you look on Thatcher's site, she also has the term shadowing, so why do you keep deleting this, is it just because you don't like it? And don't you dare delete the term "Sec. of State" from Gisela Stuart's site, look at Dawn Primarolo's site, she has it. If you dare try to remove my outstanding work, I will do my best to block you. - Andrei-Williams-2005 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrei-Williams-2005 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Andrei-Williams-2005: No it is not because of WP:IDONTLIKEIT, it is due to WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE, which states infoboxes should be concise. Alex (talk) 16:53, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Alex B4:, these are concise! Take a look at Thatcher's shadow cabinets post list, delete the shadowing term if you claim they aren't concise!

@Andrei-Williams-2005: I have approached the Thatcher talk page about this per WP:CONSENSUS. And again, please sign your comments. Also just relax, these types of convos happen all the time on Wikipedia, after all that's why we have talk pages. Don't get worked up about it man. Alex (talk) 00:26, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

We should have the shadowing parameters in all the infoboxes, it’s definitely Alex B4 not liking it! Ciaran.london (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

@Ciaran.london: Well, when I started out, I included them but people seemed to disagree, so my position on this has been more to do with WP:CONSENSUS. However, WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE (of which I have recently been made aware) seems to be the reason for that consensus. But, again I'm open to changing my position on this so I'm going to put a Request for Comment on Thatcher's talk page per another user's recommendation. No need to assume my motive per WP:GOODFAITH. Alex (talk) 22:51, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

still think we should be have the shadowing parameter. It states to have key facts in infoboxes, well having the office holder’s opposite number in them is a key fact! Ciaran.london (talk) 22:24, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

January 2021

Please do not add commentary, your own point of view, or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to Steven Anderson (pastor). Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Thank you. Elizium23 (talk) 22:18, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Portillo

My edits are constructive. The current page is badly written. I suggest you refrain from removing my edits. Thank you.--86.144.191.234 (talk) 22:47, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

No they are not per WP:CONSENSUS and WP:DISRUPTIVE. Alex (talk) 22:51, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

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COVID-19

Re "Not that it matters whether it's COVID or coronavirus, but if COVID, the name should be in all-caps"[1] it most certainly does matter.

• COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus disease 2019 is a disease, (not a virus).
• SARS-CoV-2 AKA Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 is a virus (not a disease) that causes COVID-19.
• 2019-nCoV AKA 2019 novel coronavirus was a provisional name for SARS-CoV-2, now obsolete.
• Coronavirus is a group of related viruses that cause SARS, MERS, COVID-19, and some strains of the common cold.

You are correct about it being all caps, though. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:41, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Deputy leader of SNP

Noticed you deleted of my changes about John Swinney, (sorry if i got the name wrong). He is from Scotland which is part of the UK therefore he is a British politician right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:F586:5801:E025:9A3B:E112:38CF (talk) 13:50, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I think you are confusing nationality with citizenship. He is a British citizen but his nationality is Scottish, so therefore on Wikipedia we describe him as a Scottish politician. Also in future, please sign your comments with ~~~~. Alex (talk) 13:59, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

David Collier

Why did you remove the link to the article by David Collier? TonyRiley2021 (talk) 08:23, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@TonyRiley2021: Thanks for reaching out to my talk page. The reason I removed the info was the reason I cited in my edit summary: WP:NOTNEWS. Read the policy and you should see why. In addition, the reference was an obscure internet blog and not even formatted correctly. I'll look at re-adding the info to the main text (per MOS:LEAD) if I can find reliable secondary sources for it. Alex (talk) 15:00, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Collier is a respected researcher and writer on antisemitism. His work is both accurate and legitimate, and, in this case, highly relevant, as she attended an antisemitic conference in Beirut with members of Hezbollah. She has not denied this.

Well if this is the case then we should be able to easily find reliable secondary sources for the story. Alex (talk) 21:21, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

I think you’re allowing your own bias to colour your judgement TonyRiley2021 (talk) 12:26, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Charles Walker (British politician)

He is a very minor politician who has never held any ministerial position, he is not a statesman. I don't know if you are him, or if you work for him, but I cannot imagine any other reason you would want to boost him in this way. DuncanHill (talk) 10:22, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@DuncanHill: Firstly, you should always assume good faith. Although to clarify; I don't work for him, have never met him and most definitely am not him (as my edit history shows, I mainly edit Scottish politicians' pages). I hold my hands up: I was wrong. I had thought the term statesman meant someone notable in public life and the label was to clarify his knighting and honour were for his contributions to political service as well as public life, as per MOS:LEAD. However, looking at the definition, it's clear I was mistaken. Thanks for picking me up on this. Alex (talk) 10:44, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree with user DuncanHill. I was the first to edit your post and did so again following your reversal of my edit. I received a passive aggressive message from you challenging me for doing this even after you wrote this post admitting that you were wrong. The fact that someone is knighted does not indicate a contribution to public life, obviously. Sir Philip Green has done very little for public life anywhere in the world; nor has he made any contribution to political service. Please make sure you understand how Wikipedia works before digging your heels in on your edits, and please familiarise yourself with the policies regarding user interaction as well. 86.3.198.44 (talk) 02:30, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

I published the post on your talk page before responding to DuncanHill and it is not passive aggressive to challenge editors who make bold edits to take it to discussion, as per WP:BRD. Regardless, myself and DuncanHill have come to a consensus and you're not doing yourself any favours by dredging this up. Alex (talk) 12:51, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

DuncanHill and I came to the consensus; I was the first to make the edit so your exclusion of me from that bracket only goes to show your bitter approach towards those who successfully revert your poor edits. The only bold edits made here were by you and were obviously completed wrong. What I did was a correction. 86.3.198.44 (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Protests by Westboro Baptist Church

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Speedy deletion request declined per WP:BACKWARDSCOPY. Alex (talk) 07:43, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Scotland Leader of the Opposition

Hi Alex, I noticed you reverted the edit to Douglas Ross’ page regarding leader of the opposition.

If Scotland does not have a LOTO, then why is there a page called Leader of the Opposition (Scotland). Should the article be deleted?

Cheers JLo-Watson (talk) 13:24, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Don't mind me popping in! It's not a really an official office, as such, but more a de facto title. I still think we should keep the article though.

Another idea, we could have Leader of the Opposition in the infoboxes of the officeholder with a status of 'de facto', just like Rachel Reeves and Shadow Minister for the Cabinet Office. 2A00:23C5:2C01:9501:D09B:85EB:A0BA:1265 (talk) 18:45, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

@JLo-Watson: I agree with the IP editor here. The title is informal so inappropriate for the infobox but is is used in coverage so its own article is no problem for me (however, may be worth noting the page's creator and builder has now been banned for rule violations). I do disagree with the IP editor on the de facto matter: it's an interesting shout but I just don't see it worth adding per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. What I am going to do is add a footnote in the infobox title explaining that until 2021, Ross was not yet leader of the party in the Scottish Parliament. Hopefully this helps clarify for people. Alex (talk) 01:26, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Christine Grahame

Hi Alex B4

Please can you explain what you were trying to do in this edit[2] to Christine Grahame?

The effect of your edit seems roughly similar to reverting the page to the state it was in before the election: see [3]

You edit[4] wrongly:

1. removed from the lead has served as Deputy Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament since 2016
2. introduced a typo: you replaced "approved " with "appoved"
3. removed the navbox {{Presiding Officers of the Scottish Parliament}}
4. removed Category:People educated at Boroughmuir High School
5. removed Category:Members of the Scottish Parliament 2021–

This look to me like WP:Vandalism. I hope you have some other explanation.

--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:18, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl: Must have been editing an old version of the page and not checked over it. I'm not normally that clumsy so I don't know what happened there. All I was trying to do was change [[Coronavirus disease 2019|COVID-19]] to [[COVID-19]]. I think the college pressure's been getting to me. Very sorry and thanks for catching that. Alex (talk) 22:40, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, @Alex, but something was very very badly off-kilter for you not to notice that you were editing an old version of the page, since that is well-signposted. Also, you could have seen extent of the changes by previewing changes before saving or by viewing the diff after saving.

I see from your talk page that a lot of your editing has been problematic. (For example, there is a series of incidents above where you have edited an article on the basis of a false understanding of facts and/or terminology, which in each case you could and should have checked before editing). May I suggest that you restrict your editing to times when you less pressured, and can avoid these problems?

You seem to have good intentions, and you seem to be commendably civil and constructive when problems are raised. But if these problems persist, then editors will get irked at cleaning up after you and will start to look for some restraint on what appears to be developing towards a pattern of WP:CIR issues. It would be nicer for everyone if we don't have to go down that path. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Nomination of Minister of State for Middle East and North Africa for deletion

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Speedy deletion nomination of Ancient nation of Israel

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• Didn't realize it was supposed to be a redirect. Redacted. Padgriffin ^{Griffin's Nest} 03:41, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

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Titles

Hi,

I'm interested to know why some people's titles have been removed. Is it a Wiki rule ?

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiredcleangate6 (talk • contribs) 02:03, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

@Tiredcleangate6: Yes, MOS:HON and MOS:SIR. Alex (talk) 10:23, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

The page suggests that the title is used when first mentioning the person, and may either be dropped thereafter or kept. Is that your understanding of it?

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiredcleangate6 (talk • contribs) 21:43, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

@Tiredcleangate6: No, your misunderstanding the text. The "initial mention" refers to the subject of the article in question. For example, Keir Starmer's infobox and lead have his honorifics, which are subsequently unused. He is not the subject of Emily Thornberry's article so his honorifics are unused there altogether. Alex (talk) 22:05, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate that's how you're interpreting the text, though it seems not to be universal when one reads other titled personages' pages. Also is your comprehension that continued use of the title throughout a page is incorrect?

Regards,

TCG

Tiredcleangate6 (talk) 20:16, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@Tiredcleangate6: Yes. (Other articles require clean-up on this matter, which editors try to do. It's just difficult when you have a large voluntary userbase like Wikipedia's.) Alex (talk) 20:28, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Shadow Secretary of State for the Future of Work for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Shadow Secretary of State for the Future of Work is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 21:31, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Leo Docherty

He was appointed as Minister for Defence People on 7 July 2022. [5] Why did you make this edit?[6] Mike Rohsopht (talk) 03:08, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Rohsopht: Thanks for asking. I am going to split the office off into its own page following the reshuffle. Alex (talk) 03:15, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Malcolm Offord: Revision history

Hi,

I've just looked at the adding of "Right Honourable" to Malcolm Offord's page. As there was some confusion, I emailed the House of Lords who replied:

Good morning

Thank you for your email,

We can confirm that Lord Offord of Garvel's full title does not included 'The Rt Hon'.

As indicated on his Parliamentary webpage:

https://members.parliament.uk/member/4931/career

The House of Lords is not responsible for and cannot update Wikipedia pages.

We hope you find this information useful.

You can find out more about the House of Lords  ordering or downloading free publications.

Kind regards,

Enquiry Service

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020 7219 3107 Freephone 0800 2230 855

www.parliament.uk/lords

So really the title should be removed.

Happy to forward on the email if needs be.

Best,

David DavidFinFro (talk) 16:12, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

@DavidFinFro:, Thank you for your message. It may be worth you starting an arbitration discussion with view to establishing a new consistent Wikipedia policy on this issue. I am not an expert on these issues but I usually err on the side of caution when it comes to sweeping changes to infobox precedents, especially without an agreed-upon policy. It may also be worth you making a referenced edit to the relevant Wikipedia article. Alex (talk) 17:46, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

@Alex B4 - thank you for your feedback. I've looked at the relevant article - the House of Lords, to me, will be right on this. I'll look into it. 92.13.20.242 (talk) 19:33, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

@Alex B4 I have opened a Dispute Resolution [7] about this - we do need an independent review. DavidFinFro (talk) 05:19, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Minister of State for Asia

Hi, why are you treating Minister of State for Oversees Territories, Commonwealth, Energy, Climate and Environment[8] as the successor of Minister of State for Asia, Energy, Climate and Environment[9]? Actually the responsibilities related to Asia were mostly transferred to Minister of State (Indo-Pacific) [10]. Please explain. Thank you. Mike Rohsopht (talk) 14:11, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

@Mike Rohsopht: Thank you for your message. I'm aware about the new ministerial portfolios but as the reference[11] used in the main text shows, Goldsmith was re-appointed. I was just going to create a new page for Minister of State for Indo-Pacific but, alternatively, we could use parallel columns on Goldsmith's office's page for the two portfolios. I'll be grateful for your input. Alex (talk) 14:25, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

I have some concerns on the article Minister of State for Overseas Territories, Commonwealth, Energy, Climate and Environment, currently Minister of State for Asia, Minister of State for Asia and the Pacific etc. redirect to it. I think one would expect it is a position related to Asia, but currently it is completely unrelated. Mike Rohsopht (talk) 14:35, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Also, I think "re-appointed" only meant the same rank (Minister of State) in the same department (FCDO). The portfolio can be changed. Mike Rohsopht (talk) 14:40, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thank you for acting as a non-involved editor, removing the templates from Lord Offord of Garvel's page and cleaning it. DavidFinFro (talk) 12:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

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