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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2402:d000:8100:a97a:fd03:a31d:4128:1cc8 (talk) at 03:23, 21 January 2024 (→Request for comment on inclusion of "Aljoscha Wendholt" as name: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Contested deletion

1292simon, mind specifying how you find this so promotional that you nominated this for speedy? GeraldWL 07:59, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Contested deletion

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because... (I don't understand why the article was nominated for speedy deletion as G11. I don't see the WP:PROMO issues here. It may contain content that's not encyclopedic and can be fixed with a slight effort.) --VirenRaval89 (talk) 11:38, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BLPPRIVACY

We need evidence that this article was written by a paid editor, otherwise the assertion is just drive-by tagging. WWGB (talk) 07:06, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well said, I did a bit of research but I couldn't find any evidence either hence removing the tag. SkyGeek123 (talk) 16:33, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I know, but I had to put it out there, get it into the history. I have the email exchange from a paid editor who was offering to create a page for $850. I asked for examples of their past work (to potentially out them, not to consider hiring them). This is one of four articles they claim to have created. I have the email. It's not adequate proof, but it is a warning sign. The page creator's contribution history has made others think that person must be getting paid to create and/or edit articles. See the March 2021 section: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:VirenRaval89&oldid=1015255209 Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 18:52, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Most Watched Flight Reviewer

Since this has been discussed, here is a source that put things into perspective. According to SocialBlade Cahill has reached over 10 Million viewers in the past 4 months (https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/joshcahill) - a lot more than other flight reviewers. Seems like a legit statement to me. Thoughts? SkyGeek123 (talk) 14:03, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That source says nothing about Cahill being "most watched". Report his number of views by all means, but you cannot make assertions without a reliable source. Where is the evidence of his views being "a lot more than other flight reviewers"? WWGB (talk) 14:08, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kam Air invited YouTube's most-watched aviation aficionado and flight reviewer, Josh Cahill, to experience the flight. Here is the right source: https://simpleflying.com/kam-air-all-female/ SkyGeek123 (talk) 14:21, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Would like to chip in here too. Article says he is the most watched flight reviewer, hence your edit WWGB isn't valid since you mention yourself that it may not be true without giving a source. 77.242.124.204 (talk) 11:31, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Can't be bothered arguing with you JC. Enjoy Surfshark. WWGB (talk) 11:48, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Another assumption showing your bias and conflict of interest, most likely paid editing. 77.242.124.204 (talk) 12:00, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What about Sam Chui?

According to YouTube, airline reviewer Sam Chui has 742 million views, while Cahill has 93 million views. How can Cahill be most watched? 203.166.241.198 (talk) 03:42, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Sam Chui is a flight reviewer. He states on his website that he announces himself to the airline before flying with them and that he gets sponsored too. Sam only features aviation content but he doesn't review any airlines. Sam is an aviation influencer rather. 77.242.124.204 (talk) 05:15, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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"Incidents" section

Is it really necessary to list ALL kinds of "incidents", that in reality are just summaries of one or multiple of his videos and the conflict between him and an airline or other institution/person? Does not seem to be relevant enough. 2001:9E8:62CF:B00:8DB7:9BCF:5DE:E361 (talk) 22:57, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think the incidents section should be removed since Wikipedia is not to be used as a News page. I don't think it's relevant. HansoGalaxy (talk) 11:05, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The incident section isn't relevant at all and should be removed. As stated above, Wikipedia shouldn't be used as a news ticker. 187.32.60.193 (talk) 23:51, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Name and nationality

I believe it is reasonably well established that Josh Cahill is actually Aljoscha Wendholt, but I understand there is significant doubt about his claims to be Australian. Reliable sources either way would be good to add. Jpatokal (talk) 02:07, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't a single source suggesting any of these claims. Here for example is a photo of his boarding pass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCzLcxbrF_c (Time stamp: 02:44) suggesting clearly the name Josh Cahill. This smearing campaign has been going for months. It also falls under WP:PRIVACY. 181.212.14.193 (talk) 02:46, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:PRIVACY is about doxxing editors, not public figures. Here's a source for you: TBC Asia [1] for the Cinnamon Travel Bloggers Conference
2022 in Colombo, Sri Lanka (where Josh lives) lists the presenter of gotravelyourway.com (Josh's blog) as "Aljoscha Wendholt", complete with a thumbnail of his face. Another: freiepresse.de featuring "Josh Cahill-Wendholt from Mildenau". Of course it's entirely possible that he is a dual and/or naturalized Australian citizen and legally changed his name. Jpatokal (talk) 08:51, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your first source freiepresse.de only features Josh Cahill and nothing containing Wendholt. The second source is a simple picture and you base this on if/maybe. Something major like a name change needs a proper references and not some speculations. I also work in aviation for 2 decades and follow trip reporters religiously and I never heard of your "well established" facts. Sorry to say but this doesn't reasonable at all especially citing references that don't contain the claims you made. 200.54.150.42 (talk) 09:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Whoah, this is getting curiouser and curiouser: the live page indeed says "Josh Cahill", but the Google cache dated 9 Nov 2023 11:12:09 GMT says "Josh Cahill-Wendholt"! So somebody -- who could it possibly be? -- is going around scrubbing references off the Internet. Jpatokal (talk) 21:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to get the logic here (apart that you added a source that doesn't support any of your claims and your so-called well established facts, that myself as an aviation veteran has never heard of). If I post a photo of Sam Chui on a website with 10 page views a day and put Noel Philips as caption, does it mean I can head over to his wikipedia page and use it a source? Maybe you should read this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources - to me it appears that you have an agenda or are paid to do this given the current Qatar controversy. HansoGalaxy (talk) 11:01, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
An agenda to do what, exactly? You'll note from the page history I'm the one who first added mention of the Qatar controversy, and in terms apparently sufficiently neutral that nobody has changed them for the past week. Jpatokal (talk) 21:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It may not be, but both sources provided don't include the name you suggested hence the confusion. It does seem like a planned campaign since it comes from the same anonymous IP. 181.118.69.203 (talk) 09:55, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please everyone here, stop edit-warring on the article page and claiming there is a consensus here, until the consensus is actually achieved. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 10:22, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Josh Cahill is a brand name. His name is Aljoscha Wendholt:

Welt is a reliable source in Germany and it says he was born in Nordrhein-Westfalen and raised in Mildenau, the Erzgebirge region in Saxony. So he is not Australian. Here are videos of him speaking native German:

At one point he goes by the name "Josh Cahill-Wendholt":

Here is also a YouTube video of him when he changed to Josh Cahill and the presenter said that he is from the Erzgebirge:

There is a multiple videos that show his legal name "Josh Cahill" on his boarding pass:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCzLcxbrF_c&t=164s
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtzEu-r3-VY&t=29s
Videos of him speaking German don't suggest anything?
Also your suggest sources:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-mbCB9U_gtE
Presenter introduces him as Josh Cahill
- https://www.freiepresse.de/erzgebirge/annaberg/per-anhalter-geht-s-um-die-halbe-welt-artikel7479023
Name is only Josh Cahill in the article.
Your sources don't suggest anything really. 181.118.69.203 (talk) 10:41, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why can't you be Australian citizen if you speak native German? 50% of Australian are born overseas. This is quite a racist remark.
Also the TV host in your shows introduces him as Josh Cahill only, so according to your source, he is indeed Josh Cahill. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-mbCB9U_gtE)
The freie presse article only says Josh Cahill as well. https://www.freiepresse.de/erzgebirge/annaberg/per-anhalter-geht-s-um-die-halbe-welt-artikel7479023 - so once again your source doesn't provide any truth.
Is there any article that says Josh Cahill is Aljosha Wondholt? Please provide it otherwise its just rumours and speculations. HansoGalaxy (talk) 10:49, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That racism accusation is quite rich coming from an account only dedicated to edit and polish Josh Cahill's article. He speaks native German because he was born in Nordrhein-Westfalen and grew up in the Erzgebirge. A lot of the links I put already show Cahill himself as Aljoscha Wendholt, and there was even a proof of his "transition" as "Josh Cahill-Wendholt". What is the proof that he was born in Melbourne? Nothing, only his own claim in a podcast. If you really believe in 100% of his claims, then simply watch his videos where he flexed his German passport. Where is his Australian passport?
The TV show clearly says he is from the Erzgebirge, which further brings into doubt the veracity of the claim that he is Australian. So nice of you to omit that important detail.
The Freie Presse link clearly says this:
"Das heißt es ab Donnerstag für Josh Cahill-Wendholt und Harbir Parmar. Der eine stammt aus Mildenau, .."
Another important detail you omitted: the article says he is from Mildenau in the Erzgebirge! Nothing about Australia or Melbourne
At this point it seems that this user, who is dedicated only to polish Josh Cahill's page, is arguing in bad faith. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.125.133.223 (talk) 11:30, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article only says Josh Cahill and not Wendholt.
None of your sources says he was born in Germany. Growing up doesn't mean you are born there. Also his boarding passes clearly show Josh Cahill so how do you explain this?
https://www.bild.de/reise/fluege/fluege/josh-cahill-will-qatar-airways-einen-airline-kritiker-zum-schweigen-bringen-86462166.bild.html
Also this article says he is Australian born by Europe's biggest news website.
Can you please explain the boarding passes? You can only check in on your legal name. Also the presenter only says Josh Cahill. You gotta provide proper evidence instead of your truth. HansoGalaxy (talk) 11:40, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.freiepresse.de/erzgebirge/annaberg/per-anhalter-geht-s-um-die-halbe-welt-artikel7479023
"Das heißt es ab Donnerstag für Josh Cahill und Harbir Parmar. Der eine stammt aus Mildenau, .." it doesn't mention Wendholt at all. What's your agenda? Seems like pure vandalism to me. 181.118.69.203 (talk) 11:45, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article's Google cache from Nov 9 says Cahill-Wendholt: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://www.freiepresse.de/erzgebirge/annaberg/per-anhalter-geht-s-um-die-halbe-welt-artikel7479023 Jpatokal (talk) 12:05, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You are clearly arguing in bad faith because you ignored all my links and simply tried to misrepresent them. The Welt source clearly says he is born in North Rhine-Westphalia, and grew up in Mildenau in Saxony. He might have changed his name to Josh Cahill, which explains the boarding pass, but that does not justify removing information about his birth name as Aljoscha Wendholt. The presenter on YouTube said Cahill but again you omitted the important piece that the presenter clearly said "that is a difficult name, although you are from the Erzgebirge". Nothing said or claimed about Australia!

The Bild source is very recent and is an example of a citogenesis; some shady people based on a claim by the guy himself wrote on Wikipedia that he is Australian, and hence the other articles are starting to parrot that claim. The other sources are more reliable because they were from before his clout. You also dodged my question: where is the proof that he is Australian other than a podcast? How about his videos flexing his German passport, where is his Australian passport.

At this point you are clearly engaging in obfuscation and arguing in bad faith, so there is no point in debating you further. But for those reading, take note of this: so the claim is that the mom somehow moved as a refugee from Czechoslovakia to Mildenau in East Germany (???) in the 1980s, and then within a very short span met Wendholt's father and moved to Melbourne to give birth to Aljoscha Wendholt? Even if she became a refugee on 1 January 1980, that is really a stretch. Occam's razor, people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.125.133.223 (talk) 11:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You have posted several sources which don't support your claims and you made false statement throughout this discussion which suggest clearly that you are being a paid editor. Not a single source states that the person in question is Josh Cahill. Also the claim regarding his family has no source at all and it's clearly made up by you as well, where does this even come from? So please provide a proper sources backing up your truth. 181.118.69.203 (talk) 12:00, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additional note for other people to judge: nobody here contests that he owns the travel blog gotravelyourway.com. Guess who is the official owner?

Registrant Name: Aljoscha Wendholt Registrant Organisation: Wendholt, Aljoscha

https://gotravelyourway.com.cutestat.com/

There's a small typo

Missing parenthesis in the first line, right before the date of birth! I would've edited it but the page got full protected (for the best, honestly). ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 12:13, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Appears to be fixed, thanks a lot! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 12:15, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment on inclusion of "Aljoscha Wendholt" as name

Question: Should "Aljoscha Wendholt" be in this article? RetroCosmos (talk) 14:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment From what I can see in the sources that accompany the "Aljoscha Wendholt" name, the "Josh" mentioned isn't explicitly clarified to be Josh Cahill. It sure enough looks like him in the pictures, but the sources (again, from what I can see – correct me if I'm wrong) don't use the name "Cahill" and they don't mention his YouTube channel. Therefore, I don't think we can be certain it is the same chap. Consequently, I'm going to say better sourcing is needed. — Czello (music) 16:37, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This Google cached copy of the Freie Press article uses the name "Josh Cahill-Wendholt", which makes it clear they're the same person. This Cinnamon Travel Blogger Awards 2016 interview also calls him "Josh Cahill-Wendholt". Finally, Josh's bio from the abortive Shanghai Walk project also uses the name Aljoscha Wendholt and provides a wealth of biodata that matches in every respect, except the curious lack of any mention of Australia. Jpatokal (talk) 20:02, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you, I must have missed that. If these sources are considered reliable I won't oppose inclusion of his name. — Czello (music) 00:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that better sourcing is needed. Probably the press has changed it cause it was perhaps a wrong name? As long as we don't have a clear source that states that he is the person in question I wouldn't include it. Also as individuals have commented before, his boarding passes only say Josh Cahill in his video. Without a proper source I think it wouldn't be right to include it. 190.111.246.211 (talk) 15:55, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with this also. It wouldn’t be right to include it. 82.6.98.226 (talk) 16:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No Support - everything just seems assumption based with no proper source that literally states this fact. Also the effort to have the name included by a handful of individuals makes me question the motive instead of improving the subject with a lot of nasty comments attached to it. I also see a lot of cherry picking here. This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-mbCB9U_gtE) was stated as a source when it comes to his origins, but the fact that he was introduced as Josh Cahill prior is being ignored and not accepted, which again makes me question the motivation of all this. The name that dominates is Josh Cahill which is also supported by plenty of articles including his boarding passes which require a legal name which without a doubt is Josh Cahill. Ahadzuk (talk) 16:54, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Observation: The only Wikipedia contributions made by Ahadzuk and the two previous IP users are edits to Josh Cahill and this talk page.
In any case, nobody is proposing that we rename the article, it's clear "Josh Cahill" is the most common/current name. Jpatokal (talk) 10:28, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Observation regarding Jpatkal: He is the only who lobbies so intensively to have the name included without accurate sources but based on speculation. Doing a reverse search people can see that he heavily advertises his agenda in forums outside wikipedia. He seems to have an agenda and isn't unbiased. I wouldn't include a name based on speculation and why can't no members have an opinion? You seem overly obsessed with this. If some papers have adjusted the name can it perhaps be that they have made a mistake? Why do we have so many versions of it? 190.111.246.211 (talk) 12:19, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've been editing Wikipedia for 20+ years on all sorts of random subjects that tickle my fancy. So pray tell, what exactly is my agenda, and where am I "heavily advertising" it? Jpatokal (talk) 22:28, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On face value Jpatokal's edits do not strike me as single-purpose. RetroCosmos (talk) 04:24, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Given that this attention seeking guy is all over the news I'm not surprised that many people have something to say who usually don't edit on wikipedia. 187.32.60.193 (talk) 00:01, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
German federal law doesn't permit changes to your name yet in his videos it says Josh Cahill on his boarding pass. This needs a lot more sources and might even be a case of identity theft. In doubt and without a clear explanation it's not right to include the name… no support. Also why does this guy need a wiki page? Most YouTubers with more views and influence don't have one. 64.88.226.29 (talk) 20:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No Support - Given that this claim is based on an archived blog from 10 years ago and nothing solid that says anything accurate there is a lot left to be desired. News sites don't just change names because somebody asked nicely, so they either know something we don't or there is a legal case going... do we know the answer? Certainly not! just a lot of guessing and speculating at this point. Obviously the lad is making global headlines at the moment around the Qatar controversy which comes with a lot of attentuon but something as important as a name change requires a lot more references... especially on here. 187.32.60.193 (talk) 23:46, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Strong support There appears to be enough sourcing supporting its inclusion, though it strikes me that someone is trying to scrub mentions of the old name off the internet. I find it nearly certain that Aljoscha Wendholt and Josh Cahill are the same person. This article directly states that they are the same person. This, in conjunction with the fact that Josh Cahill's website is registered to Aljoscha Wendholt leads me to dismiss any idea that they could be different people. RetroCosmos (talk) 09:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
After 1 minute you can see the name Josh Cahill on his boarding pass (no airline in the world prints fake or fantasy names on boarding passes). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NXNi-h3697k 2003:FF:F0A:8120:B6A5:5DE8:B251:241A (talk) 10:00, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Summary of discussion: we have three tenured Wikipedians (myself, Czello, and RetroCosmos) in favor, and one named account (Ahadzuk) whose only contribution was two edits to this edit page plus a set of rotating IP addresses against. Jpatokal (talk) 04:53, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which means every other voices needs to be ignored, that not how Wikipedia works? There are many valid points in this discussion regarding his boarding passes which only state Cahill as his legal name. Someone also mentioned that German federal law doesn't permit name changes and not a single source says that the individual in question is Josh Cahill. As many say, it's only speculation without clear evidence. How do you explain all these valid points? 80.155.39.221 (talk) 04:59, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the 3 IPs and one account involved have zero discussion outside this topic, there are some whose minds may jump to certain conclusions. Regardless, we use consensus and not voting. so that an opinion appears to be nominally popular is not directly relevant RetroCosmos (talk) 05:28, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it looks like a sock and quacks like a sock... and speaking of boarding passes, here's the smoking gun: a video on Josh's official YouTube channel dated Dec 7, 2016 that clearly shows his boarding pass with the name "WENDHOLT/ALJ[...]". You may need to single-step frames (press "."), but here's a frame grab to make it a little easier to see. Dear anons, how do you explain this? Perhaps Cathay misprinted his boarding pass? Jpatokal (talk) 06:52, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's looking like we have a slight consensus to include the names, judging by all this. — Czello (music) 10:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment From what I can see in the sources that accompany the "Aljoscha Wendholt" name, the "Josh" mentioned isn't explicitly clarified to be Josh Cahill. It sure enough looks like him in the pictures, but the sources (again, from what I can see – correct me if I'm wrong) don't use the name "Cahill" and they don't mention his YouTube channel. Therefore, I don't think we can be certain it is the same chap. Consequently, I'm going to say better sourcing is needed.
As quoted above and agreed by many others, better sourcing is needed. No better sourcing has been provided yet at all. 80.155.39.221 (talk) 10:55, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I notice you quoted my initial comment but ignored my later one where I retracted this. — Czello (music) 11:01, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources exactly provides any proof of the changes implemented. None of the sources says Cahill is Wendholt. Can you please clarify? HansoGalaxy (talk) 16:03, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems clearly manipulated/photoshopped to me since the link you posted doesn't exist as many more error links you have provided. Also a Jimdo blog with 1 page view a month isn't a reliable source. Educate yourself here: Wikipedia:Reliable sources - why aren't you able to provide a clear source which says that the person you claim him to be is really the person in question? 80.155.39.221 (talk) 10:15, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And now we have confirmation the mysterious IPs are either Josh himself, or have admin rights to his YouTube channel! Unfortunately you neglected to delete the copy of you posted on Facebook, and don't worry, I've downloaded a copy for safekeeping. :) Jpatokal (talk) 19:47, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not an official account of Josh Cahill and your motivation is clear from online forums that this is an organised attack on this account. Yet you fail to provide clear evidence and you dodge every references that challenges your claims. It's obvious that you have personal issues with the individual and that your edits are biased. HansoGalaxy (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HansoGalaxy, https://www.youtube.com/@JoshCahill is the official account, correct? Can you explain how the copy of the video entitled "Cathay Dragon Review from Beijing to Hong Kong Business Class" captured by archive.org earlier this year also contains the "WENDHOLT/ALJOSCHA" boarding pass? Also, would you like to declare any conflicts of interest? Jpatokal (talk) 22:21, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://web.archive.org/web/20210205111921/https://www.freiepresse.de/mildenauer-gewinnt-blogger-award-artikel10359877
RetroCosmos (talk) 04:12, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Josh Cahill, der mit bürgerlichen Namen Aljoscha Wendholt heißt, sein."
"Josh Cahill, whose real name is Aljoscha Wendholt". You heard it here folks. Published in the Saxony Free Press on 10 November 2018.
RetroCosmos (talk) 04:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This seems fairly conclusive. — Czello (music) 10:12, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An archived article which has been changed isn't a proper wikipedia source, can you also explain how his boarding passes show JOSH CAHILL? It can't be a "professional known as" name since you legally require to have this name on your passport. 2402:D000:8100:A97A:8913:999C:76C:AEFF (talk) 08:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How has it "been changed"? It's an archived news article. — Czello (music) 09:01, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The original article doesn't contain the name "Aljoscha Wendholt" but more importantly how can you book a flight on "Josh Cahill" if its not your legal name but just a "professional known name"? This needs to be discussed here and is completely ignored. Also this source: https://avgeekery.com/airline-fires-crew-bans-youtuber-over-critical-flight-review/ says Czech-Australian and this one https://www.bild.de/reise/fluege/fluege/josh-cahill-will-qatar-airways-einen-airline-kritiker-zum-schweigen-bringen-86462166.bild.html says Australian born, how come they aren't accepted as sources? 2402:D000:8100:A97A:8913:999C:76C:AEFF (talk) 09:08, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you prove the original article doesn't contain that name? The rest of what you said is WP:OR. — Czello (music) 09:21, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting so this article: https://www.welt.de/welt_print/article2976469/15-Millionen-Schritte-bis-nach-Shanghai.html would also fall under WP:OR because it doesn't mention Josh Cahill at all or anything related. Yet they are used to "justify" Aljoscha Wendholt as name. Can you explain please?
These sources clearly state "Czech-Australian" & "Australian" born
https://avgeekery.com/airline-fires-crew-bans-youtuber-over-critical-flight-review/
https://www.bild.de/reise/fluege/fluege/josh-cahill-will-qatar-airways-einen-airline-kritiker-zum-schweigen-bringen-86462166.bild.html
How come they aren't accepted as sources? 2402:D000:8100:A97A:8913:999C:76C:AEFF (talk) 09:37, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The new sources you mentioned are a clear example of a citogenesis. They looked at Wikipedia, it says Australian, so they put it in their article, and now our dear friend Josh is using these sources for his own benefit.
The sources used in the article are much more reliable because they are based on an interview of Josh/Aljoscha himself.
If you want to use YouTube grab as an argument, then do not ignore why a video from 2016 clearly shows his German passport with the boarding pass saying Aljoscha Wendholt. 2A02:A020:40:DFF1:3DA7:F479:82F5:16C6 (talk) 09:52, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you prove that they looked at Wikipedia and used it as a source? Also your argument with the screen grab probably shows that he changed his legal name or how can you travel on a name you don't have on your passport? 2402:D000:8100:A97A:8913:999C:76C:AEFF (talk) 09:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sadly if unsurprisingly, the "smoking gun" Saxony Free Press article from 10 November 2018 has now been removed from archive.org. Of course, this does not invalidate the facts contained in it, so I'd suggest we change the cite to point to the original printed newspaper article. Jpatokal (talk) 22:45, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As you can see it's an archived article which has been changed ever since because the statement wasn't accurate and not a proper source. Is there a proper a source other than a deleted news article?
A lot of evidence was presented regarding the boarding passes on which is legal name Josh Cahill appears. You can't book a flight on a "professional known as" name. Can you please explain how this is possible backed up by a proper source? 2402:D000:8100:A97A:8913:999C:76C:AEFF (talk) 08:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which online forums are you talking about? ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 01:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(undent) Our friend Josh seems to be insisting Josh Cahill is a legal name, so should we change the lead to "Josh Cahill (born Aljoscha Wendholt)"? The "known professionally" wording seems to be typically used for clearly artistic names like Meat Loaf. Jpatokal (talk) 09:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The sources seem to just say it's his "real name". Unless there's another source saying he's legally changed his name I don't think that wording would work. — Czello (music) 09:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What we know from reliable sources is that Josh Cahill is the most common name and Aljoscha Wendholt was his name at birth. We're not making any assertions either way about what his current legal name is. Jpatokal (talk) 11:17, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Followup: this Talk page edit by a Sri Lankan IP (hmm...) suggests that Josh's preferred form would be "Cahill, a Czech-Australian based in Colombo, Sri Lanka". While changing your name in Germany is quite hard, it's much easier in Czechia, and we know his mother is Czech, so perhaps he has changed his legal name there? All WP:OR, of course, but it would neatly explain the newer boarding passes. Jpatokal (talk) 02:57, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Suggesting that I'm Josh shows poor form to be honest and isn't constructive at all. Do you have a personal relation with him or has he been in touch with you?
I don't have any relation with him other than following his vlogs. Just gathering all information from this topic suggest that this is a coordinated effort by three users to only accept your truth while disregarding other sources. But if it's not his legal name how can he travel on this name? According to everything I see "Josh Cahill (born Aljoscha Wendholt)" is much more accurate. 2402:D000:8100:A97A:8913:999C:76C:AEFF (talk) 09:51, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How do you explain the fact that whenever someone brought a source that shows he is Aljoscha, the information mysteriously disappears?
First there is the Cinnamon link that says Aljoscha Wendholt, suddenly it got renamed.
The same with the Freie Presse that used to say "Cahill-Wendholt".
Even the information from cutestat that was posted here suddenly got censored.
But the most damning is the YouTube video that shows his German passport with the name Aljoscha Wendholt on the boarding pass, the video was suddenly taken down, implying the user arguing here is either Josh himself or someone with access to his channel.
I believe someone should start a sockpuppet investigation of HansoGalaxy, Ahadzuk and all the other accounts used here to censor information about Aljoscha and his German origin.
Sorry that I have to stay anonymous because this person is notorious for online bullying, he often sends his army to attack people he does not like or an institution that offended him. 2A02:A020:40:DFF1:3DA7:F479:82F5:16C6 (talk) 09:56, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe because of doxing/privacy reasons or cuz he has legally changed his name? All I see here is an organised online bullying campaign against an individual and I'm sure if he is such a bully he would have asked his army to be here too. I'm sure this is a organised campaign in retaliation to the Qatar issue. 2402:D000:8100:A97A:8913:999C:76C:AEFF (talk) 10:04, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The effort to censor Aljoscha name is already way before the Qatar scandal. Check the revision history, it all started with SkyGeek123, which is why I am suggesting a sockpuppet investigation since all these mysterious IPs and accounts act and speak the same.
Also you just said "he has legally changed his name", assuming that is right, then you accept that his original name was Aljoscha Wendholt?!? So what is the problem of writing his original name and his German origin? Wikipedia is not censored, even if you try to scrub the information from the public. 2A02:A020:40:DFF1:8840:2A14:747C:E6F5 (talk) 10:10, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've already started a sockpuppet investigation. It was only about an hour ago so it might be some time until there's a response. — Czello (music) 10:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Surprise surprise, the three old videos from Shanghai Walk where he spoke native German got mysteriously removed. To fellow editors, make sure to keep an archive of everything, there is a clear systematic attempt of censorship here. 2A02:A020:D0:C4BF:3C35:81FF:8865:9F05 (talk) 13:58, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no skin in the game, I am a completely unrelated individual who read this entire thing and can only say that those against including his birth name sound completely unhinged. The Welt article mentions Aljoscha is also called Josh and links him to the website shanghaiwalk.com. A quick Google search came up with this Flickr account (https://www.flickr.com/people/shanghaiwalk/) with the same name, linking to the same website, and the pictures feature none other than Josh Cahill. Obviously I don't think this is some smoking gun (it seems there's been a decision already to keep the name) or if it's even an acceptable source by Wikipedia standards, but as an outsider, this discussion read more as a censorship campaign to scrub the mention of his birth name. I don't know his connection to Australia, but what prompted me to even search him was just the fact that it's clear he's not a native English speaker. I wanted to know whether Josh Cahill was his real name, and where he's originally from. Not out of malicious intent, just to give myself some context on him. Why invest any effort to hide information that doesn't ultimately change anything? 2A01:C23:6159:3E00:84D4:C8AE:283A:9D86 (talk) 22:00, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • This is the first time I've heard of the guy, but reading through the discussion above, I support including his birth name (Aljoscha Wendholt) in the article per the reliable sources given by Jpatokal above. Any doubt that that is his birth name is basically cleared up by the YouTube video (from Cahill's official channel) showing his boarding pass with the name Wendholt/Aljoscha on it. Some1 (talk) 04:19, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I was the one (2A01:599:409:8334:CDD6:CF37:BCB8:B92D) who added his name in the first place on Dec 17.
    Sorry for "sleeping" since then. I have just found out that a discussion has been brought up.
    I might be able to give you a good theory on how it it's possible, that his real name is Aljoscha Wendholt but some boarding passes are issued for "Josh Cahill".
    Under German law, it is allowed to add a "Religious name or pseudonym" to your passport. It will be displayed on the second page. Aljoscha/Josh most likely did that. He would by then be legally allowed to use both names.
    On Dec 17, I have received a forwarded message from a Aero Dili employee. To be precise, it was the head representative for Indonesias operations. Maybe some of you remember his video about the airline (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ4DpePtaXI). There were issues at checkin.
    This is a part from the forwarded message:
    Why is his check-in taking so long?
    1. He wants to use the name Josh Cahill while the system is reading (baca) the passport. His name is actually Aljoscha Wendholt, as written on the first page of his passport.
    2. Our staff sent the information to airport immigration to request approval for him to use the name on the second page, but immigration rejected it and we had to change his ticket to his real name. When I arrived at the airport and received the report from the station manager, I issued a manual boarding pass for him to enter while waiting for his name change in the system.
    Of course, you have to take that source with a grain of salt. Even for me, it is not verifiable. Thats why I have not included it in the first place on my edit. Instead, if have searched for other reliable sources and found news articles with pictures of him and the name "Aljoscha". That supported the theory, so I made the changes to the Wikipedia article.
    I hope this helps you a bit. I am not that often editing or discussing Wikipedia articles, so I just wanted to help out a little bit by adding Josh's real civil name. HejBjarne (talk) 12:53, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This isn't a forwarded message but a post on facebook which I saw as well. Which falls under Wikipedia:No original research. 2402:D000:8100:A97A:FD03:A31D:4128:1CC8 (talk) 07:11, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    These are absolutely not close to reliable sources. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 08:31, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure.That is not a reliable source, as I have explained. I am just wondering why you are guessing (without a source for that), that his name changed. More likely would be the pseudonym name. It's pretty hard to change names in Germany for fun. HejBjarne (talk) 09:23, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    https://web.archive.org/web/20210205111921/https://www.freiepresse.de/mildenauer-gewinnt-blogger-award-artikel10359877 - This is a error link and cited as reference for the name change - everything else here is based Wikipedia:No original research and doesn't explain or give a valid reason. Claiming that Josh Cahill is only a professional name and not a legal one is definitely an inaccurate statement.
    Also consensus was reached on not include nationality but it does get ignored too. Lots of biased opinions here with any factual sources. 2402:D000:8100:A97A:FD03:A31D:4128:1CC8 (talk) 03:23, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment on inclusion of Josh Cahill as Australian or German

Question: Should Josh Cahill be listed as Australia or German?

The only source used to back up that he is an Australian born in Melbourne is a Spotify podcast, whereas on top there are already sources indicating he is born in Germany, grew up in the Erzgebirge and has a German passport. 114.125.135.64 (talk) 23:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's pretty clear he is German, and likely Czech as well given his Czech mother. The question is whether he is Australian as well, and if so, when he acquired his citizenship. Jpatokal (talk) 00:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Looking through the article history there are quite a few Freie Presse (from Saxony) stories about him that supposedly detail his origins in Germany. However, all the links are dead, and the archived ones are paywalled. If anyone has access to FP, please check for us!! Thanks RetroCosmos (talk) 03:10, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Good observations, RetroCosmos. And I would add that ss WP editors, if we have trouble finding suitable sources for the claim, we should fall on the side of caution and remove the material until reliable sources can be found to support the material/claim. WP:BLPREMOVEWritethisway (talk) 18:26, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is highly unlikely that someone with parents from East Germany and Czechoslovakia was born in Australia in 1986 - and then moved back to Saxony as a small child.
In addition citizens of East Germany and Czechoslovakia were not normally granted exit visa to relocate to Australia. 185.124.195.46 (talk) 18:42, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This link from Welt clearly says that he is born in North Rhine-Westphalia and raised in Mildenau, Saxony: [2]. At the very least, it should be written that he is born in Germany instead of Melbourne/Australia. 114.125.132.8 (talk) 09:50, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neither, he does not seem to be known for his citizenship. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 15:19, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Neither one as well. All mentioned articles say he lived in certain regions but none specifically mentions that he was born there. Although I find this BILD article which say he is Australian born. 190.111.246.211 (talk) 16:06, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So isn't the encyclopedic thing to do to note that his place of birth has variously been listed as both Germany and Australia? Jpatokal (talk) 10:29, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The entire "early life" section should be removed too since there isn't a single source saying any of this stuff. 187.32.60.193 (talk) 23:48, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes and early Life is absolutely unimportant in this case. He is not Michael Jackson or Tina Turner. 80.187.121.138 (talk) 20:30, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree Neither. His nationality does not help us understand what he is notable for so it being in question I feel the best action is to omit it. Dobblesteintalk 21:40, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This video on Josh's official channel shows him clearly brandishing a German passport around 1:30, see frame grab. Combined with the previous sources, I think we have incontrovertible proof that he was (at least) a German citizen as of 2016. Jpatokal (talk) 06:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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