Talk:Durbin Feeling

Photos

IP contributor, in case you have connections with Feeling or his family and return here, it would be great to have newer photos than the one we found here. If you own the copyright to photos of Feeling or know other people have such photos, please see the photo release generator to generate an appropriate statement of permission. Then you can email in photos and we can add them to the article. And thank you for starting the article on this very important figure! Calliopejen1 (talk) 22:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

What's in a name?

The article doesn't say why his surname was slightly different to his parents, or is it a mistake? Editrite! (talk) 23:26, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Editrite!: Because I made a typo, now fixed. Thanks! Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:30, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Latin translation

GreenRunner0, curiosity begs me to ask the purpose for translating Feeling's Cherokee name into Latin, thus creating a name he never used and has no connection to him or his history? If you can provide a source for him using his name in Latin that would be helpful to explain the need to romanize it. Thanks. Attn:Calliopejen1 Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:59, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Transliteration (not translation) of non-Latin text is fairly common practice on Wikipedia for native language names, for people or otherwise, which employ a non-Latin script; especially relavent in this context, see the ledes Sequoyah or Cherokee language. It's not intended to be a third name or second "Latin" name but Romanization of the Cherokee scripts pronunciation. GreenRunner0 18:30, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

@GreenRunner0: I know the Cherokee language but thanks for the links anyway. The "Romanization" isn't based on the literal pronunciation of the name in Cherokee but simply the "Latin" interpretation/transliteration of the script and, in my opinion, could be misleading. While I appreciate your passion and dedication to these things (I have looked over some of the articles you have edited) this particular article is about a Cherokee man and what he offered to his nation and people in regards to his life's work of preserving their language and culture. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything "Latin". Is the current plan to go to every article containing the Cherokee script and "Romanizing" all of those words and names too?Tsistunagiska (talk) 19:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tsistunagiska and GreenRunner0: My concern here is that if he used "Durbin Feeling" in the Latin alphabet and "ᏫᎵ ᏚᎥᎢᏅ" in Cherokee syllabary, why aren't we romanizing ᏫᎵ ᏚᎥᎢᏅ as Durbin Feeling? I think ᏫᎵ ᏚᎥᎢᏅ is a Cherokee-ized version of Durbin Feeling (Tsitunagiska, correct me if I'm wrong here), so it is weird to give a romanized version of the Cherokee-ized version of his name. Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:30, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

To not include the transliteration, however, may imply that ᏫᎵ ᏚᎥᎢᏅ is pronounced as "Durbin Feeling" or that name order is the same in both transcriptions, which is not always the case and with which a transliteration into Latin text may help with; for example, articles on Japanese people often are made with an article's title follows Western naming order conventions but the transliteration included in the lede a romanization which reveals the different name order. If ᏫᎵ ᏚᎥᎢᏅ is a Cherokee-ized version of Durbin Feeling, as suggested by Calliopejen1, it looks like the name order is also reversed in this case as well, no? The subject matter of the article is irrelevant; I'm just trying to adhere to MOS:RESPELL and WP:NAMES to the best of my understanding of them and how they are commonly used here. If you're concerned with the accuracy of the pronunciation, the inclusion of a phonetic transcription like the IPA is always an option (though that is not something I am versed well enough in to do myself), or if I've made a mistake in transliteration from the Cherokee syllabary table, by all means, please fix it. I won't particularly care if my edit is removed though I would disagree if it was. GreenRunner0 19:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Calliopejen1GreenRunner0 Getting too far into the weeds here. Many Cherokee have both an English and Cherokee name. ᏥᏍᏚᎾᎩᏍᎧ or Tsistunagiska is not my English name but is my Cherokee name. The Romanized transliteration isn't wrong, per se, however, my opinion is that the casual reader doesn't care about how to pronounce his name and if they did then "Romanizing" it isn't enough to teach them to say it properly which could, actually, be a disservice to the man. Most people don't understand the importance of names to Native peoples. Regardless, it was more about whether it was necessary to add it or served a legitimate purpose related to Feeling.Tsistunagiska (talk) 19:46, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Let me back up and clarify here, GreenRunner is not wrong. That is the "romanization" of the name. That wasn't my point at all. My issue is only in ensuring the integrity of his name and keep anything from diminishing its value within the article.Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:10, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Amkgp (talk) 06:03, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

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Durbin Feeling

• ... that Durbin Feeling is considered the greatest modern contributor to the preservation of the endangered Cherokee language? Source: "Cherokee Nation mourns passing of Cherokee National Treasure Durbin Feeling, single-largest contributor to Cherokee language since Sequoyah"[1]
• [ALT] ... that Durbin Feeling was named a Cherokee National Treasure for his contributions to the preservation of the endangered Cherokee language? Source: "Cherokee Nation mourns passing of Cherokee National Treasure Durbin Feeling, single-largest contributor to Cherokee language since Sequoyah"[2]

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/High School (1940 film)

Created by Calliopejen1 (talk) and 2600:1700:DCE0:ADB0:8C8A:C764:A6CB:A890 (talk). Nominated by Calliopejen1 (talk) at 17:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC).

• Starting review —valereee (talk) 22:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: —valereee (talk) 22:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)—valereee (talk) 22:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Everything looks good, some bizarre site is showing up 80% on Earwig but they have to be copying us. I like both hooks. Thanks, CalliopeJen and IP, for your work at this wonderful article. —valereee (talk) 23:34, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Changes

JHunterJ I have went to more than a dozen articles similar to this one where an alternate name is put in parenthesis followed by the date of birth and death. None are organized how you have done it. Also, there is no collaboration needed on the change you made to the statement about the Cherokee Syllabary. Its a false statement asserted by you. The Syllabary isn't called the Cherokee Syllabary block, it is called the Cherokee Syllabary created by Sequoia, period. He is attributed with assisting in the addition of the Cherokee Syllabary into Unicode.You made two adjustments and whereas one was minor and unecessary, the other is wholly fabricated. Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:35, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

You overlook the correct insertion of the spaced endash and the correction of the comma error, as well as the usual spacing of the authority control. You are correct, there are many many Wikipedia articles that clumsily place two parentheticals next to each other; we can improved that incrementally without needing to fix all of them at once. But to the main: the statement was that he "contributed to the addition of the Cherokee syllabary to Unicode, which allows it to be widely available on computers and smartphones." If that does not mean the Cherokee syllabary block was added to Unicode with his contribution, then the piped link to the syllabary block should be removed (WP:EASTEREGG). If it does mean that he contributed to the addition of that block, then the rephrasing I contributed is clearer. -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:41, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

You can link to all the "wiki-isms" you want but even the article it's linked to is not called "Cherokee Syllabary block". It's "the Cherokee Syllabary in Unicode" as originally stated. Making something up cheapens the original which is opposite of anything Feeling did. Why do people feel like they have to "improve" everything (rhetorical)? It is what it is. He assisted in getting the Cherokee Syllabary into Unicode thus it's linked to the Cherokee Syllabary in Unicode form.Tsistunagiska (talk) 15:05, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

The article it links to calls does indeed call it a block: "Cherokee is a Unicode block containing the syllabic characters for writing the Cherokee language." Why do editors feels their work can't be improved (rhetorical)? -- JHunterJ (talk) 15:31, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

It doesn't call it the "Cherokee Syllabary block". You made that up. If you feel you want to improve what Durbin Feeling did and call it the "Cherokee Syllabary block" I suggest do it and then maybe they will write an article about you. Until then I suggest not adding your made up words and calling it improvements. It's not, it's vandalism of the article about his work and his life and was perfectly told as it was before your "improvements". And to be fair, I didn't write the lovely biography but I will defend it from you and anyone else adding their made up words to it.It takes away from the historical references Feeling fought his entire life to protect. Keep your sarcasm to yourself.Tsistunagiska (talk) 16:02, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

It calls it a block, which is what I did, without making anything up. Your adversarial approach and treatment of collaboration as attack and defense is not productive, and if you can't handle my mirroring your sarcasm back to you, you should keep your sarcasm to yourself. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:20, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Do you know anything about the Cherokee language, written or spoken? The Cherokee Syllabary was created way before there were computers. The Cherokee Syllabary is not a block, therefore there is no Cherokee Syllabary block. With Feeling's assistance the Cherokee Syllabary was added to Unicode. No where on "Cherokee (Unicode block)" does it call it the Cherokee Syllabary block. That is a term you made up and it's wrong. Instead of admitting it you are going to double down on your assertion. My adversarial approach is due to your dogmatic views and outright disrespect of Cherokee culture and history. You can't collaborate when you start with fictitious made up words. This is a biography with facts.Tsistunagiska (talk) 19:34, 5 September 2020 (UTC)