Talk:Czech Republic

What arguments for keeping Czech Republic as the name - still stands strong today?

More and more, the country is referred to as Czechia. I myself was a part of the RM discussion, which rejected the move. I am interested in whether we could have some comments surrounding the page name arguing for why it should be not be changed. If not, I think it's in it's place to once again reconsider the page name.

Bests, thomediter Thomediter (talk) 16:43, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Please see the above discussion, #Rename to Czechia as Germany, France, Slovakia or Poland, and all the previous discussions in this talk page's archives before suggesting a move, and, if you do suggest a move, have evidence that the situation has evolved since this was last discussed here only 8 months ago. Please do not antagonize everyone with this article on their watchlist by rehashing old arguments without consideration as to whether there are new developments that would warrant a different outcome. Largoplazo (talk) 16:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Fwiw, Google trends hasn't changed much since last discussion. Consider checking and considering again 6-12 months after the 2024 Summer Olympics, since the last Eurovision obviously didn't do the trick [1]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:27, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

And the Czechia still lives! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång It has died today. Today I wrote there, today they solved it. Often, it is better to try to correct mistakes and alert the person making them rather than mocking them. But it was still just a false problem, why not allow Czechia on Wikipedia because someone random used it with "the", another false problem will appear right away >:| Chrz (talk) 15:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Still funny that it was the about-page of that org. Oh well, there's always memorials like [2]. Fwiw, I don't consider me mentioning a typo at their website "mocking" the Czech Olympic Committee. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Consider writing the EU next, there are 4 "the Czechia" at [3]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:12, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Change "Czech Republic" to "Czechia". And they did. The word "The" is not used on signs and plates even for countries with "the," right?! I don't know what's so special about "that" org. It's as if this one subpage is supposed to be more important only when it's wrong. Now that it's right, it's OBVIOUSLY insignificant and secondary >:/ I also wrote to the EU, now we'll see the differences in communication with institutions. Although again, if (when) the EU page gets it right, it will miraculously become insignificant. Chrz (talk) 20:34, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree a lot with what Chrz is saying Thomediter (talk) 21:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

I am not trying to restart RM, I just wish the practice would end where insignificant obstacles are put in the way, meaning sources that have a miraculous power "against" but then have no weight "for". Either they are important for any party in the dispute or they are not important at all and it's not worth discussing them here. Chrz (talk) 22:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Eventually, the page will be re-named Czechia. Remember it took quite a few RMs (and years) to finally get Burma re-named Myanmar. GoodDay (talk) 20:36, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Racism. I'm completely serious. There are no reasons to deliberately use an old and rejected name now that the proper name is widely used and accepted everywhere. Except if you have a sense of superiority over the people of Czechia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.18.223.41 (talk) 22:20, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Then you're completely serious about something ridiculous. To the best of my knowledge, Czechs are white. Charges of racism usually arise in situations involving white people actually or reportedly discriminating against non-white people. If that's not the case here, which race of Wikipedia editors do you think are discriminating against them?

Where did you get the idea that "Czech Republic" has been rejected? It remains the country's official long-form name! The only change is that they adopted an official short-form name as well.

I'm looking at the web page of the Czech Convention Bureau. They refer to the country as "Czech Republic". Are they self-racist?

When you say "There are no reasons", the reasons have already been explained at nauseating length in previous discussions on this matter. They don't disappear just because one person declares them not to exist.

None of the points you've made here have any connection to reality. Largoplazo (talk) 22:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

That's an official page of the country's state tourism agency, and it uses the term "Czech Republic" all over.[4] — kashmīrī ^TALK 06:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Throwing around words like "racism" is not the way to make friends and influence people on Wikipedia. This discussion has gone on for a very long while, and it's not going to go away soon, and sometimes it is annoying, but at least we can say that the main contributors on both sides are acting in good faith and with mutual respect. We will change the name when a majority of voices on this page are convinced by the facts. Doric Loon (talk) 01:13, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2023

Change Central Europe to Eastern Europe 89.24.32.30 (talk) 17:57, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Assuming you mean as in "Czech Republic is in Central Europe." According Central Europe, that seems good enough, though like with "how many continents are there?", there are other definitions. Why would it be better for this WP-article to change like you suggest? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Calling Czechoslovakia "Eastern European" was cold war thinking, when the iron curtain traced a simplistic political divide between east and west. But both before and since the Warsaw Pact era, the West Slavic peoples have thought of themselves as Central European. Because Europe goes much further East than you maybe think it does. Doric Loon (talk) 14:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

It depends on 1) whether Russia (in whole or in part) is accounted for in the various _____ Europe regions, 2) how many such regions you are using, 3) which regions they are, and 4) where you draw the lines. I can conceive of definitions for the Czech Republic to be in eastern, central, or western Europe.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 22:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Both Russia and Czech are Eastern European. Undashing (talk) 03:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

You're missing the point. These named regions do not necessarily correspond to literal geographic chunks of particular continents. I have seen geography text books that separate Russia into its own section and then divide the remainder of Europe into various regions. In these systems, the Eastern European region DOES NOT include Russia. Even though, technically, Russia IS (partially) in the eastern portion of the generally accepted continent of Europe. User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 05:34, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Partially my ass. Russia is the largest country in Europe.

And Ethnic Russians are Slavs, native to Europe. Undashing (talk) 06:18, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Um... only part of Russia is in Europe. Thus it is PARTIALLY in Europe. I don't know how you misinterpreted what I said or why it seems to make you so mad. User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:49, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Travel time by car or ferry from the geographical center of Europe, added by Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:56, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Fun fact: Prague is further west than some parts of Germany, Austria, Italy and Sweden. It is two degrees west of Vienna, and four west of Stockholm. Moscow, on the other hand, is a full 23 degrees east of Prague, while Kyiv and Minsk are 16 and 13 respectively. The distance from Prague to Moscow is almost twice the distance from Prague to Paris or London.

So, while everyone is entitled to their own analysis, the idea that Czechia is central European is certainly a plausible one.

Can we just agree that these terms have various definitions that may all be legitimate, and our articles on Central Europe and Eastern Europe are the place to discuss them? Doric Loon (talk) 08:56, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Russia is the largest country in Europe, yet, neverthless, Russia is only partly in Europe. Surely you don't think Vladivostok is in Europe! And where Slavs originate is irrelevant, just as the majority European heritage of today's populations of Australia and the United States doesn't put those countries in Europe. Largoplazo (talk) 16:49, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Bohemia is not Czechia

Frequent mistake is present in the English text, claimimg that ...[Czechia is] historically known as Bohemia... In fact, the territory of Czechia is composed of Bohemia, Moravia and part of Silesia. These are historical countries, nowadays without any authonomy nor reflected in recent administrative borders. Still, they maintain some cultural and language specifics, and many people feel strong affiliation to "their" country. Particularly the inhabitians of Bohemia sometimes call the whole country as Bohemia (Čechy), which is often felt as haughty by Moravians and Silesians. On the other hand, some people refuse using the newly established term "Czechia" (in Czech: Česko), as they incorrectly consider it as an English translation of "Čechy" (correctly: Bohemia). 81.19.4.195 (talk) 12:44, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

The keyword is "historically" - before the 20th century the whole Czech lands were known in English as "Bohemia", as it explains in the reference. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 12:51, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Even more important than "historically" is that this is talking about ENGLISH usage, not Czech. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:53, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe this issue should be mentioned in the FAQ? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:22, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I am absolutely dumbfounded that this question keeps coming up. I would think that the obvious fact that English and Czech are different languages would be enough to explain it. User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 17:53, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Many countries have different historical names. By this kind of logic we should write "historically known as Ruthenia" in Ukraine article and "historically known as Muscovy" in Russia article. --UA0Volodymyr (talk) 09:31, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

If that "historically" has already surpassed the psychological threshold of 100 years (1918 Czechoslovakia), I guess it is acceptable to omit this information from the introduction and include it in later sections. Chrz (talk) 10:47, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:LEAD, that's not unreasonable. I don't see a lot about Bohemia in the article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:02, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

The country was known as Bohemia for more than 1000 years until 1918. If we have Persia or Siam in the lead sections of Iran and Thailand, Bohemia should be in the lead section here. Qertis (talk) 10:56, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:OTHERCONTENT only means so much, but those are not unreasonable comparisons. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:15, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Both Iran and Thailand were renamed as existed states. Bohemia before 1918 and Czechoslovakia after are completely different state units. UA0Volodymyr (talk) 11:32, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Siam 1939, Iran 1935. Ancient too... Chrz (talk) 14:37, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

That's an article about the current country, not a part of the Austro-Hungary before 1918. Ukrainians in the Western Ukraine controlled by Austro-Hungary also were called Ruthenians before 1918. UA0Volodymyr (talk) 11:26, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand that revert. Among today's readers, few will seek this state under the name Bohemia, which has not been known for over 100 years and thus practically no one could have recorded it under that name. One can learn about its historical name in a different chapter rather than immediately in the introduction. Particularly if it's not relevant to the article's text. Chrz (talk) 14:32, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Renaming to the Czechia

Can I change the title of the article to one-word Czechia? Considering that this country is under this name on the websites of the UN or the EU and several others, I think it is time to do it. Czech politicians are also using this designation more and more often on foreign trips. I've also seen it on TV during some sport. Even the article on the Czech Wikipedia has the one-word title "Česko". https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cesko

So I would do that if it's not a problem. Andypos (talk) 01:08, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

You would need to start a formal move discussion as prescribed at WP:RM. If you do that, you should understand that

• This change has been proposed numerous times and has continued to fail to obtain a consensus.
• The criteria on which the decision should be made are primarily those expressed at WP:COMMONNAME. So a move nomination should be based on a solid guidelines-based demonstration that the criteria for a name change have been met. In particular:
  • It's not a matter of showing that some or many uses of "Czechia" exist but that they predominate. Maybe they do now, but that needs to be assessed.
  • Other sources, like the UN and the EU and sports programming have their criteria for reflecting new names. Wikipedia has it's own criteria.
  • Czechia was using "Česko" for itself years before it even came up with "Czechia" for the English-speaking world, so that isn't relevant.
• You should familiarize yourself with previous discussions to avoid treading ground already trodden. See the latest one at Talk:Czech Republic/Archive 12#Closure of "Rename to Czechia" discussion.
• That was only eight months ago, and these discussions are draining to all who have this article on their watchlists. It would be respectiful of other people's time and effort to wait a while longer. The situation just isn't likely to change that dramatically that fast, and there's no obligation to catch relative usage slipping over the threshold the instant it happens.

Largoplazo (talk) 02:32, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. Andypos (talk) 18:23, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Btw, just noticing the heading of this thread, I do not think you will get agreement to change the article-title to "the Czechia". ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:47, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Can I suggest we don't revisit this until after this year's Olympics? The situation is actually changing very fast, and reporting on the Czech participation in Paris is likely to give a very up-to-date metric for common usage. Let's wait and see what that looks like. Doric Loon (talk) 09:14, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Make it 6-12 months after, but yes, it will be interesting to see what impact that has. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:29, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, agree, as well as the Olympics this year we also have Euro 2024, another ice hockey championship, and an EU parliament election, so hopefully that'll provide enough contemporary sources for people to move on from the Google ngram that only goes up to 2019. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 09:39, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

If these events have enough effect on the google trends, that could happen. It would be nice if ngram could be arsed to update, though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:32, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

FWIW, the IIHF began using Czechia in their 2022 tournaments. GoodDay (talk) 23:35, 15 February 2024 (UTC)