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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Unknown Temptation (talk | contribs) at 21:27, 17 May 2024 (→Claims not backed by references: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Update

Unai Emery is the new coach of Sevilla FC Confirmation of the official Twitter of the Sevilla FC: https://twitter.com/SevillaFC/status/290887720572706816 — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrEqualizer (talk • contribs) 18:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The pronunciation

@Mark immer: Are you sure it's the Basque pronunciation? Where is the stress of Emery? LoveVanPersie (talk) 20:17, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, I missed out the stress on Emery. I checked with some native speakers and it should be e'meri, the stress being with the me sound. I'll change it now.Mark immer (talk) 15:19, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Some topics

(as sent to my talkpage by User:Hippo43, on 23 February 2018) Early life / Playing career sections - The reason I combined these is that both would be very short sections on their own. He is notable only as a manager, not a player. There is virtually no coverage of his playing career, other than statistics, that I can find in reliable sources, so if he was not a manager, he would not IMO meet the notability guideline, especially in the English language Wikipedia. Therefore, the combined section is really a section on his life before his career as a manager, the thing for which he is notable.

Separate Early Life and Playing Career sections would be about 2 sentences each. We could create both, in line with the FOOTY project manual of style. However, if we were to create both, it would give undue weight to these, so it would really need to be split up his managerial career into separate sections to compensate.

Position - I don't think it's really important wither way, but I would not include his playing position in the lead for the same reason - it's not relevant to his managerial career.

Links - as I stated before, the previous links were misleading. That is, it was not clear what they linked to until you clicked on them, so I do not support changing them back. Neither did at least one of the other editors who commented on your post on the project page.

  • My two cents now: 1 - believe me fellow user, he is 100% notable as a player - featured in La Liga, 200+ matches in Segunda División - and he would have "passed the test" if he never had worked as a manager (and you will find tons of reliable refs attesting to that), but you can ask another user that you trust if you have doubts regarding this statement I make. Thus, this is why I feel his playing position could be inserted in the introduction;

2 - if we separate early life and playing career the sections would only contain two sentences each, you point out. I see no problem with that, and the sections are completely unrelated - his playing career should only contain what he did as a pro senior footballer, but as another user commented in the WP:FOOTY I created, the personal life section coul be renamed "Early life" and its contents moved above instead of at the end of the written content. I do not understand the remark about the need to create sub-sections for the managerial career, is the section not split into sub ones already (unless you mean something else, could be me not getting it)?

3 - again the same, since he is 100% notable as a player, it could/should go in the introduction;

4 - I know, you do not support the insertion of the said wikilinks in the storyline. But I assure they are not misleading, one link is for the competition (i.e. Copa del Rey) and the other is for the given season of competition so the reader can consult all the scores/scorers/other during the tournament - which includes the score that is written in the storyline, so I fail to see how does that mislead the reader. That being said, I was only asking this of you as a personal favour (and since at least User:Mattythewhite says he has no problem with both being inserted I am certain of not incurring in any wikiwrongdoings), but I will not a nuisance about it no sir.

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 11:11, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely no way should his playing career and position not be included as it would be for any other player biographies, just because he is better known as a coach does not mean his career as a professional player for 15 years should be disregarded.
Having said that, the playing section is very short in terms of text. I don't see any real problem with it being combined with the equally short family info. The topics are not directly related, but it is logical in that his relatives played in one era, he then played in another era and coached in another, and that's the way the information is sequenced here so it reads OK to me. If more information was added about his playing days, I would support separating the sections.
I generally find the piped links to seasons to be useful, I am used to reading a lot of articles in this style as most of them had a lot of work done by QAC (and MYS77 who uses the same style). I agree it it could be seen as slightly 'easter egg' to a reader who was unfamiliar with the links being displayed in this way, but the alternatives are to type them out in full across the articles, which looks clumsy, or not to have them at all, which isn't very user friendly. The page would be fine without the links, but I feel it's better for having them. Crowsus (talk) 11:53, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding piped links, the guideline is clear - no easter eggs.
These examples - qualification, return, qualification, repeating the league position, confirmed, 4–1 in Austria - are all very misleading. That is, no one seeing "confirmed" would think that it wa a link to "2015–16 UEFA Europa League". I don't object to having links to the competition, but they must be clear. --hippo43 (talk) 13:00, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am having a very hard time grasping this concept, but maybe this is exclusively my fault (and I am in no way being sarcastic, I assure you), if a reader sees the 2009–10 UEFA Europa League wikilink hidden by the word "qualified", followed by the UEFA Europa League wikilink, if they click on the former they will read, at the start of the article, "The 2009–10 UEFA Europa League was the first season of the UEFA Europa League". Easy to deduce, then, X team qualified for the mentioned tournament after they performance in the corresponding domestic league, would you agree? --Quite A Character (talk) 14:28, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if this isn't clear. It seems really obvious to me. It should be clear to the reader where the link is going to take them before they click on it. "4-1 in Austria" does not suggest to the reader that it will take them to "2016 Trophée des Champions". If you're not sure of how piped links should work, maybe you shouldn't use them? --hippo43 (talk) 00:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I could not agree more with User:Crowsus, proving that my editing style is not completely "illegal". Plus, User:Nzd, more or less in the same fashion as you, as taught me a way to avoid "easter eggs". They told me that we can write the round of a competition to hide the season wikilink of said tournament, but NOT a match result (or words like "qualified for", "won") which belongs to the same tournament. A bit baffling, but i'll eventually grasp it... --Quite A Character (talk) 10:57, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know that anyone said your editing style was illegal. However, it does cause some problems, through overlinking, unclear piped links and with English not being your native language. Linking to a season of a competition shouldn't be a problem if it is clear, but it is confusing when, in the same sentence or paragraph, there are links to both the season of the competition and the competition itself. It then is not obvious what a link is leading to. I would suggest you avoid piped links as much as possible, and relax a little, rather than trying to argue every small point where someone disagrees with you. --hippo43 (talk) 18:17, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

When i said "illegal" i meant in the WP scope of course, not suggesting anyone is accusing me of anything serious. Regarding your last statement, i do believe my reasoning skills are not all the best they could, even though i try my best.

Now, for the technicalities: you say it's confusing if we have wikilinks for competition and season of the competition in the same line. However, in my view it's how it should be done properly (one sentence/paragraph only), as after the first instance one link suffices for all paragraphs (that is to say, ONLY the season of tournament is enough because the competition has already been linked once so there is no need to link it separately). Does this make sense to you (provided the reader is not mislead)? --Quite A Character (talk) 19:05, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what you mean. If some version of the phrase 'Champions League' is sometimes linked to the competition and sometimes to the season it is very misleading. --hippo43 (talk) 20:21, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

But would you agree (perhaps this point has not been addressed, or maybe i'm not seeing things correctly) that AFTER the reader clicks on X or Y link they would cease to be mislead? --Quite A Character (talk) 23:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, I wouldn't agree it has been addressed, and no, they obviously would have been misled. --hippo43 (talk) 04:02, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Needs to be changed to Head Coach he isnt manager Matty21342 (talk) 12:52, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2018

Abmahmood06 (talk) 15:58, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He is now arsenal manegerAbmahmood06 (talk) 15:58, 22 May 2018 (UTC)bbcnews[reply]

 Not done: a google search tells me he "appears poised to take the Arsenal helm" or he is "set to be chosen". At this point, it is all rumour and speculation until Arsenal or he confirm it. NiciVampireHeart 16:07, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 15 June 2018

"is the current" is contrary to WP use to avoid time 2605:E000:9149:A600:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 23:42, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done, you haven't explained what you really want done. Govvy (talk) 10:46, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2019

Unai Emery has officially left his job as Arsenal coach. Page requires update. Proof: https://www.arsenal.com/news/unai-emery-leaves-club?fbclid=IwAR1xjWd6wzmyBeB6kS9cGz3GZnLv-cwkDMMZZlHT_BnTnPCNn4lbguGcnZ4 Holyviper (talk) 10:21, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Done by other editors, even though the request was not in the prescribed form. Wham2001 (talk) 10:29, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Protection

Sounds ironic but we should protect This page from vandalism Unaigoodeebening (talk) 15:24, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox Image

Jmlowson93 has changed the image on the infobox from Emery in an Arsenal top to Emery holding up an Aston Villa top. I think that the first image (Arsenal) is a far more fitting photo for an encyclopaedia.

What does everyone else think?

(If you can edit my wikicode to make the images side by side, feel free to do so. :) )

Puffin123 (talk) 18:11, 13 November 2023 (UTC).[reply]

Reverted, as the new image is a copyright violation. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Matty. Puffin123 (talk) 18:21, 13 November 2023 (UTC).[reply]

Nationality = Spanish

Well, I never thought it would come to this, but right after the page was locked to avoid vandalism, HackneyGlyn21 came to change every mention of Emery being Spanish to him being Basque.

Emery was born in the Basque Country, which is a region of Spain the same as the Community of Madrid is, but nobody would ever say that Raúl was a "Madrilenian footballer". Emery never played for Spain, but we have no evidence that he holds any passport other than Spanish.

Hackney Glyn appears to be Welsh, and may bring up that we have millions of pages on "Welsh footballers", but this is correct because Wales has a national football team. The Basque Country and Catalonia do not have official ones.

I am aware that there was an RfC that concluded that Basque and Catalan can be used as the main descriptor for people whose notability is dependent on that identity. Sabino Arana was the forefather of Basque nationalism, and we would accept the descriptor for people who wrote and sang in those languages, or took part in a sport indigenous to those regions. Emery, on the other hand, kicked a bag of air. For the last 20 years, he has worked in Spain and abroad, telling foreign men how to kick a bag of air. His notability is not dependent on his ethnicity or region of birth.

Hackney Glyn appears to be a single purpose account with the goal of deleting the existence of Spain and Spanish nationality. He also seems to not know the difference between a nationality and an ethnicity, suggesting that Xabi Alonso cannot be Spanish despite being born in Spain, because he was born in the Basque region. [1] Hackney Glyn seriously asked the community to prove that Xabi Alonso is Spanish, while conceding that the player was born in Spain and played for Spain. Nobody has ever suggested that Gianfranco Zola was not Italian because he was born in Sardinia, an autonomous and culturally distinct region of Italy. Unknown Temptation (talk) 12:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that being Basque is the same as being from Madrid is absurd. And you justify that on the basis that The Basque Country and Catalunya do not, er, have national football teams? Really?
What is it the Wiki editors union hate so much about describing people as Basque or Catalan? How does it hurt you? Are you a Spanish nationalist? Is that it? Even then you’re in a minority. In Spain few ppl would object to describing Emery as Basque or Guardiola as Catalan as that’s what they are. Stop being so petty. HackneyGlyn21 (talk) 16:13, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not a Spanish nationalist, I'm not even Spanish. Read MOS:BIOFIRSTSENTENCE. Everyone should be described by their nationality, not ethnicity. Basques and Catalans are ethnic groups from Spain. Why can't you get that into your head? Are you going to break down every Indian biography by ethnic group? Is Kevin de Bruyne Flemish not Belgian, and Hazard Walloon not Belgian? If not, why not? Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Emery as Basque

I have re-edited back to that Emery is Basque. I am shocked that anyone has any objection to this. In the football world this is taken for granted. There's a great qoute re Xabi Alonso, also inaccurately described on Wiki as Spanish, but works the same for Emery which noted him being refered to in a discussion as to how he would fair in the English football that went "Don’t worry, he’s Basque; not Spanish". It's perculiar that certain people in England are so vexed at this. To re-state. Emery is commonly refered to and know as Basque and that is what shoudl be reflected on Wikipedia. Yes his passport states he is from Spain and if someone wishes to state that on the page they have the right to add that.

I note that the person who edited this after me also edited the descriptor of his name from Basque to Spanish. That is even more ridiculous. However his nationality is described, it is clear that most of his name is Basque and Emery is possibly French.

HackneyGlyn21 (talk) 17:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The quote that Alonso said is on culture, just as people in his place of work call themselves "Scouse not English" but I highly doubt you take that seriously enough to edit war on the Steven Gerrard page. Emery is not "commonly referred to and known as Basque", most people do not have any idea where any Spanish person was born. [2] "the Spanish manager found life in north London so difficult". How is it taken for granted that Emery is Basque? I doubt many of his English and foreign players give it much thought. Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The tag at the top is for SPANISH NAMING CUSTOMS, not a name coming from Spanish. The Spanish naming customs means father's surname first and mother's second. If you look at the page Spanish naming customs, Sabino Arana detested this system and designed a system that would be more in keeping with the Basque language. This tag is used on the page for Spanish people with foreign-language surnames such as Marco Asensio Willemsen and Iñaki Williams Arthuer. If you are so keen on surname origins, how about I tell you Bale is an Anglo-Norman surname? Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Are you going to write an angry letter to Emery's employer for writing about "the Spaniard’s transformational impact at Villa Park?" [3] Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Europa League

Unai Emery has won 4 Europa League titles. Recent one in 2020-21 with Villarreal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.162.151.155 (talk) 17:53, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, you are right but the article already says this, in the lead section and in the honours. Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RECENTISM tag

User:Govvy is advised to discuss the recentism tag as he has been undone by two different users. WP:BRD

WP:RECENTISM doesn't mean that Emery was appointed recently, as your edit summary suggested (though I would hardly call 15 months ago the distant past, even in today's volatile managerial market). It means that the level of detail is too high for the importance of subject. For example, we wouldn't have the history of Manchester United with a big section about the last 10 years and a few lines on Busby and Ferguson.

We all know that Emery is doing much better than expected at Villa, but it doesn't mean every single game, interview and transfer should be listed. This is particularly out of kilter with the amount of detail dedicated to periods like Sevilla and PSG, when he was winning a lot of trophies. We do have to remember that most casual Wikipedia football editors are a) English-speaking and b) interested in the current state of play, so it is natural that this section gets bloated. Before I started on this page, it included nearly every Aston Villa result, and even records solely to do with individual players. [4] The thing is that Emery managed nearly 1,000 matches before Aston Villa and there was not that level of detail, nor would it be appropriate on an encyclopedia. Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:09, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recentism is a wikipedia only word, recentism isn't a word in the English dictionary, the basis of recent media is the effect for WP:RECENTISM, so again, recent is within a set period, recent isn't over a year ago. The template is in the wrong place, and you're not using it right. I suggest you either shift it down to the next section, or remove it and not abuse it. Govvy (talk) 18:18, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Claims not backed by references

User:Aman201, I have rolled back your edits. I wouldn't have even noticed were it not for your edit summaries, which show that you have particular opinions about Emery. This would be fine if what you were writing was backed up by any references or sources rather than your own opinions. Wikipedia does not revolve around you. We must find reliable sources for what we write, especially about living people.

You said Emery was "awful" and his form was "poor", though the sources only say he was using reserve players for the final league games because of prioritising Europe. The reader can read the fact that Sevilla came 7th and make up their mind if that was poor or not. They do not need to be hectored with your opinion as if it is the only one that matters.

You wrote that Emery faced fan protests that led to him leaving in 2012. The citation doesn't say that. The only mention of Emery in the prose is "A media hora del final, Emery, que tuvo una buena despedida en Mestalla" "Half an hour from the end, Emery, who had a good farewell in Mestalla". Again, if there were protests, find a source.

You have been on Wikipedia for nearly four years. You should know policies like WP:V WP:RS WP:BLP and WP:NPOV. If you show that you are only editing to get your point of view across, with blatant disregard for Wikipedia policy, you may be reported to admins and blocked. Unknown Temptation (talk) 21:27, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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