Talk:Ramen

Ramen in the USA

Shouldn't it be noted, in the opening P, that ramen noodles are very popular among lower-class americans. In great quantities, i believe. Tried some googling, but got millions of results. anyone got a good cite?--71.97.147.120 (talk) 22:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)--71.97.147.120 (talk) 22:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Ramen Noodles

I apologize before hand if this observation is made completely out of ignorance but to my knowledge "拉麺" translates directly into "pull-noodles". The article refers several times to "ramen noodles". Is not the "noodles" after ramen redundant? To me it seems parallel to saying "with au jus" or "au jus sauce" both of which are known to be gramatically incorrect. GeneralChan 09:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

• REPLY*

No, "ramen noodles" is not a misnomer; "ramen" is a dish that consists of noodles, broth and toppings. The noodles are an integral part of the dish, but they are not the sum total. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.171.52.117 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 8 August 2007 (UTC).

• Say what? GeneralChan 07:23, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Ramen directly translates into "Pulled-Noodles", "Ra" meaning Pulled and "Men" meaning Noodles. In Japan, you don't ask for Ramen Noodles, you ask for a Ramen. However, whatever translations are made when the dish is served in western country may have included the use of the word "noodles" as an indication for customers new to the Japanese cuisine. Nonetheless, the most correct name for the actual noodles mentioned by the replyer is simply "Ramen", NOT "Ramen Noodles". Each noodle dish with a specific broth are given a different name, such as "Miso Ramen" meaning Ramen in Miso Broth.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobitori (talk • contribs) 23:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Lo mein

Merge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakata-men with this page plz.

拉麵 (Ramen) is not the same as the same as Chinese lo mein. Lo mein is 撈麵 and is different from Ramen.

• I also find it strange that this article relates Japanese/Korean "Ramen", Instant Ramen, and Chinese La mian/Lo Mein without explanation of their(significant) differences. 131.118.250.137 20:50, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

- I agree. I think at least 'Ramen' and 'instant noodle' needs respective article. Sections below 'health concerns' mainly talking about 'instant noodles' it shouldn't be mixed with 'Ramen' by just call it 'Ramen'.

Also, is there any health concerns regarding 'Ramen' not 'instant noodle'? If not, it should be clearly stated so. It can confuse people about 'health risk' when they dine at a ramen restaurant where 'Ramen' is served never 'instant noodles' (unless there are such restaurant serves instant noodles). 220.240.19.194 04:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)Zep

I don't understand why there is confusion for the etymology of "ramen" if Chinese 拉麵 is made almost exactly the same way as ramen, and the other dishes aren't? Citrus538 05:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It is stupid to even suggest Lo Mein is where Ramen came from. 66.171.76.248 14:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

---

Maruchan® brand ramen Copyvio? If the brand name is registered with a R, then is the illustrationm an ad for this brand? Wetman 08:55, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Pronunciation

It IS pronounced "rah-men" (at least based on the katakana ラーメン rāmen), not "ray-men". thank you very much for putting htat in there! my friend an i were having a heatted disscussion about the pronounciation of the word. Frogygirl 16:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Michael Moore

What's the deal w/ the fourth paragraph of the intro? Not really on point . . .

(Gregoryc wrote the above sentence but didn't sign his entry.)

Yes, the the fourth intro paragraph about Michael Moore didn't belong in the intro section. Instead, I merged it into the already-existing paragraph on Moore's ramen controversy in the History section. This topic is discussed in a bit more detail in Michael Moore, so I shortened it during the merge. Michael Moore's web log has details about what happened. --Ben James Ben 01:10, 2005 Jan 10 (UTC)

Terrestrial Meat

...perhaps because, for most of its history, the Japanese diet did not include terrestrial meat; their diet was mostly based of vegetables and seafood

I just read in Jared Diamond's book Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed that terrestrial meat was common in pre-Tokugawa times, and it was the Tokugawas that oriented the Japanese largely toward a fish and vegetable diet. Is this true? --Bletch 11:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

It may be, but that is off topic. Ramen was created post-Tokugawa. Thus, it is irrelevant. (I'MNOTCRAZY 00:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC))

ramen=noodles?

So are Ramen just noodles? I'm not seeing a difference, particularly if they're sometimes made with egg (making them, surely, just egg noodles?). How are they not just 'noodles'? I mean, all noodles are quick and easy to make.

- Well, would you say that Spaghetti noodles are just noodles and should not have a name or an entry on Wikipedia? Ramen noodles are a specific type of noodle. They are probably consumed more than any other type of noodle in the world as well.

- 'Ramen' is a dish. 'Ramen noodle' is a kind of noodles that used for 'Ramen'. I do not think 'Ramen noodle' is easy to make. It's difficult to keep it in shape. 'Spaghetti' seems easier for me to make.

- No. Infact, 'Ramen' IS the name of the actual noodle used in the dish. The dishes are each called differently, such as 'Miso Ramen' meaning 'Ramen in Miso soup'.

More commonly, ramen is made with kansui, rather than egg. As a home experiment substitute, you could use a teaspoon or so of baking soda with the flour and the resulting noodles from the dough will approximately resemble ramen. Dough with kansui is much easier to stretch, but stretched noodles are a pro's job. I think it's much easier to just roll it and cut it or send the dough through a pasta machine.

Tampopo a Juzo Itami movie

A great movie about the philosophy of Ramen makeing taht every Ramen eater must see

Also an interesting look into Japanese culture though be warned, despite the family movie like story, this movie has sexual scenes that may be offensive.

Mie noodles

Should we include a discussion of mie noodles - a fast cooking Chinese noodle variety that is sold is squares like ramen, but without the flavor packets?...

List of Ramen Soup

Is there a list of types of soup? myselfalso 02:19, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Lead section

Since there's a section regarding etymology, and no clear consensus on it, I'm going to remove the etymology as well as the "alternative version" from the lead section. Sneftel 22:36, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Instant Ramen flavors

How many different flavors of Ramen noodles are there? We guess somewhere around 42 (that IS the answer to everything afterall!)

Instant Ramen vs Real Ramen

Instant ramen noodles are usually fried. Real ramen noodle are not fried.

Otaku ruin everything

Get your own Otakupedia guys. There isn't any reason to list every single anime and manga where someone ate a bowl of ramen. It's silly. I reccomend we split that section off to Ramen references in Japanese Pop Culture or simply delete it.Bethereds 12:26, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Though a year later, I have deleted it per popular consensus. -Amake 14:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Ramen in Chinese?

I'm pretty sure ramen in chinese is called 方便面 (fāng biān mìan), and not whatever mentioned in the article.

Are you sure that doesn't mean "instant noodle" instead?

In Germany

I commented out a rather uninteresting part, but i did not want to delete outright. Any thoughts? (Please poke on my talk page, too) RichiH 02:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

in pop culture

Also commented out It is also used when sending a message to sign it. in the FSM section. Could not make sense of it in any way. Same as above, please poke in talk page RichiH 02:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Pictures of ramen

Isn't 25 pictures of bowls of noodles a bit excessive? A few pictures which illustrates the major differences should be enough. It's making me hungry though. Phonemonkey 13:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Could we start a page on kansui instead?

Hi! I was just in the neihborhood when I noticed that kansui didn't have it's own article. But it had a discription of it in the raman article. Would there be enough to go off of or is it best to keep it in this article. Thank you:).--Blackmage337 00:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of which, unless I missed something, the article never actually defines this 'kansui'. I can't imagine an ingredient that comes from a lake, but can be replaced with egg, lol. I think this needs a quick explanation in the article. Edit: Ok, apparently I missed it. But I'm still confused...Vlmastra 03:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorted.Yakitoriman 00:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry Vlmastra, I think I may have been unclear with that. What I was suggesting is that we could have an article on kansui instead of having it described in this article and then making a link to it from the Ramen article. I thought that it would be easier for people to have that in case if they already knew what kansui is.--Blackmage337 20:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

East India

I am quite sure that Ramen does not originate from India. Ramen is the Japanese take on Chinese noodle soups. I believe Ramen descended from dishes such as Champon that are found in Nagasaki.

I continued reading the article and found some more oddities. I find the idea that Ramen originated in Bengal to be proposterous. There is no related dish eaten anywhere I have been to in West Bengal, in and around Calcutta. While there is Chinese food available in Calcutta, I have never seen a noodle soup, but only stir-fried noodles served.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.105.45.21 (talk • contribs).

Article Doesnt have a Global View

This article on ramen does not support a global view because it only focuses on Japanese ramen and not ramen that it is eaten in other countries. For example Korean ramen is hardly mentioned in this article, preventing this article from having a global view. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NC Rush (talk • contribs) 11:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC).

Please see Instant noodles for South Korean cuisine. Generally, South Korean "ramen" (ramyeon) uses instant noodle mainly. --Nightshadow28 12:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

らーめん

The hiragana for "ramen" (らーめん) in the article intro is completely unnecessary. While it can be found on signs in Japan, it is a non-standard "spelling", is immediately derivable from the katakana for anyone who really cares, and only serves to clutter up the article's introduction. There is widely held consensus against providing redundant information, e.g. romanizations, in Japanese articles (when not especially important to the subject matter) and this falls under the same category. Whoever keeps re-adding it, please stop. -Amake 12:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

If ramen as らーめん offends your orthographic sensibilities, too bad. It is *not* unnecessary: it is a legitimate rendering that is widely used for both product packaging and advertising for ramen establishments. (And how does a single world "clutter up" an article's introduction?) If anything, 拉麺 is non-standard -- in five years and three distinct regions of Japan, I have seen this rendering exactly once. And I've eaten a whole lot of ramen.

Apparently you live in Japan as well, so I don't see why you're unwilling to accept what's right outside your door: らーめん is standard usage. Whether you like it or not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dosukoidan (talk • "contribs) 10:52, 5 August 2007 (UTC).

I have no idea why you're taking this as if it's a personal attack. ラーメン and 拉麺 are in Japanese dictionaries; らーめん is not (and in fact らーめん redirects to them; see: 大辞林). らーめん is simply ラーメン rendered in an alternate, but non-standard (for loanwords), syllabary; would you recommend we list every single Japanese word in kanji, katakana, and hiragana, even when only one or two of the three is preferred? I think not.

I'm removing the hiragana again. Please do not re-add it. -Amake 05:13, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

• REPLY*

I'm not taking it as a personal attack -- I'm taking it as a skewed editorial decision based on an unwillingness to accept some simple truths.

Please deny for me the following: ramen as らーめん is used nationwide in product advertisement, individual restaurants and even restaurant chains. You can't, because that would not be true. There may be a sudden resurgence of 拉麺 restaurants where you live, but in the rest of Japan, the kanji has fallen by the wayside in favor of ラーメン and, yes, らーめん. You're arguing in favor of a kanji rendering that, while accurate, is far LESS commonly used than its variant, which you even refuse to acknowledge. That's a bit odd. And no, I'm not denying that らーめん is a variant, but the fact remains that its use is *widespread, and it can be seen each and every single day.

>ラーメン and 拉麺 are in Japanese dictionaries; らーめん is not.

Strange, variants like "tyre" and "humour" aren't in my dictionary either, yet they seem to be used quite frequently and even get mention on Wikipedia. Odd, my Japanese dictionary still only lists the clean meaning of パイパン and even specialized dictionaries don't list 容積率対象述床面積, but that doesn't seem to stop perverts and architects, respectively, from being rather dependent on those terms. A dictionary is a valuable resource, but it's hardly a benchmark of modern language usage. Like it or not, らーめん is used. A lot. Even the Japanese entry of Wikipedia doesn't hide this fact. Why are you trying to even deny it mention?

>would you recommend we list every single Japanese word in kanji, katakana, and hiragana, even when only one or two of the three is preferred?

I would recommend a rendering that has as widespread a use as らーめん at least be allowed a *one-word mention*. Or do you suggest that we go around tearing down たばこ signs as well?

>I'm removing the hiragana again. Please do not re-add it.

I'll be glad to -- as soon as the Japanese stop using it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.171.52.117 (talk • contribs) 13:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC).

First, let's eat delicious ramen together, and keep cool.

Now, at present, the comment by Amake is persuasive. The reason is simple. Amake explains the reason for his editing with a reliable source like dictionary, but Dosukoidan and 59.171.52.117 are not (it is based on observations and experiences from his/her living). If editors are requested to select among two way, a comment with more good source is chosen generally. Because all editors can not live in that country.

Moreover, in writing of Japanese language formally, loanwords are written by katakana character. This is based on a report of the Japanese Language Council and the Cabinet notification in 1990: "the notation of loanwords"(外来語の表記). --Nightshadow28 19:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

• REPLY*

>First, let's eat delicious ramen together, and keep cool.

That's some delicious-looking ramen. :)

Dosukoidan and previous post are both the same person, me. (Sorry, desktop suddenly died and I'm on my laptop.)

Nightshadow, I see your points. I guess the contention comes that I'm trying to insert らーめん at the top where it is "defined," when らーめん is not a formal definition. I freely accept this. But I think らーめん is so widely used that it deserves mention *somewhere*. Come on, we can have entire Wikipedia entries on leet speak and 2chan-isms but we can't even mention the word らーめん? If we can at least place a "non-standard rendering" blurb and mention らーめん somewhere in the body text, away from the formal definition -- like the Japanese Wikipedia entry -- that's fine by me. It's the attempt to outright censor it as a word, when it is in fact in very widespread usage, that grates. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.21.192.114 (talk • contribs) 13:57, 9 August 2007 (UTC).

Your suggestion has a value for avoiding a edit war. At least, notation by hiragana should not place on definition sentence because it is not unformal.

But I think that hiragana's notation is only personal (or stand, product) equations in any language. For example, when a hot dog stand in country town in Texas uses a signboard which is writing as "HOT DOG", must we mention it to encyclopaedia? I can not think that it is such.

If you propose a valuable information not aging quickly with hiragana's notation, I think that it should mention it in this article strongly.

Finally, I apologize to the people of Texas for the reason of above writing. --Nightshadow28 12:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

• REPLY*

Your first post had merit, with clear-cut examples of precedence, but now you're just being foolish. "For example, when a hot dog stand in country town in Texas uses a signboard which is writing as "HOT DOG", must we mention it to encyclopaedia?"

No, Sir Sarcastic, as I mentioned in my previous post, I'm not talking about one ramen restaurant in the middle of nowhere with a rusty sign that reads "田中らーめん": I'm talking about CHAIN RESTAURANTS and NATIONWIDE PRODUCT PACKAGING. Tools like "the Internet" and "Google" can pull up examples, or you could go "Outside" and use your "Eyes" and see らーめん on every street corner and store shelf. And the sad thing is, you know it.

health risks

In the article, it speaks of instant ramen as a food staple for students but should we not include the controversial health risks? It is high in sodium and little else. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.46.59.146 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC).

It's under Instant noodle, which is linked at the top of the page. Real ramen in Japan is full of nutrients and so forth, so there's no real need. It's just a small blurb about the instant stuff, the article is about the real soup. Kuronue | Talk 21:39, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Naruto Uzamaki

Should we add that the character Naruto, likes Ramen? just a suggestion.69.118.144.236 22:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

No. If you look at the edit history of this page, you'll see that factoids about Naruto Uzumaki have been repeatedly added and deleted. It is completely inconsequential to the subject of Ramen whether or not some fictional character in such-and-such TV show likes or doesn't like ramen. There is no need to add such fancruft. -Amake 08:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Self-heating ramen cans?

There are rumours of self-heating ramen cans being available in Japan (not sure if from vending machines or stores). I think they are described as being similar to the self-heating ration packs. They are stored and sold at room temperature, but can be heated without power by activating a chemical heater at the bottom of the container. However I can't find a store that sells them, or a photo, or even a blog based in Japan that mentions them (many US blogs but none seem to have first-hand experience). I have only been searching English language sites though. Is there someone in Japan that can confirm/deny their existance, and approximate price compared to normal ramen? Or provide a Japanese translation for "self-heating ramen" that I could try and Google? Thanks BeamerNZ (talk) 18:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

FSM?

In the "popular culture" section, is it perhaps worth mentioning that followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster use the word "RAmen" as a blessing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.2.2 (talk) 08:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

No, since that doesn't tell the reader anything about ramen. Feel free to mention that in the FSM article, where it would be more appropriate. -Amake (talk) 10:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

ramen noodles

Ramen noodles are not Japanese. They originated from China. This entire article is wrong, well a good portion of it.