Talk:Tamale

The English word is tamale. The Spanish is tamal. Seeing as how this is the English Wikipedia, we should use the English term. Nohat 05:51, 2004 Jun 28 (UTC) Yep, thoroughly agree. I'm going to move it. RickK 06:01, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

I've always thought of the sing. "tamale" as an import error, but what the heck. It's certainly the dominant form and it's closer to the Nahuatl root. –Hajor 11:24, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

TamalE. I grew up eating AND making tamales, and never in my LIFE have I heard one called a "tamal". I thought someone made a spelling error until I caught the nose-in-the-air bit letting me know _I_ was wrong. Bull, I say. And, if it's so "incorrect" to call one tamale a tamalE, then why isnt the page labeled "Tamal"? A word is only as "correct" or "incorrect" as it's usage. Thats how words work.--98.18.57.173 (talk) 11:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible merges

tamale + humita

The pages tamale and humitas don't distinguish a clear difference. Humitas says it is another name for tamale while tamale says humitas are smaller and sweeter -but the humitas page discusses savory ones and has no mention of size. If there are no clear differences it is probably best to treat this all in one article. That gives a better idea of the full range and variation in the subject as well. Rmhermen 19:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

• The Spanish Wikipedia has two separate articles on these two foods. Since the dishes come from Spanish-speaking countries and the Humita article came directly from es:Humita, I'll defer to their judgment and oppose the merge. | Klaw ¡digame! 14:51, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

• The Tamal is an iconic representation of Traditions in Mexico. For instance, on Candlemas Day (Spanish: Dia de La Candelaria) it is widely traditional to have Tamales. I oppose the merge. Mau.S. 17:27, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

• • Since it's been four weeks and the only two opinions offered were in opposition, I've deleted the merge tags from the two articles. | Klaw ¡digame! 17:04, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
    • I can still see the merger suggestion. Is this still up for discussion?

tamale + nacatamal

(copied from talk:nacatamal) There is already a good article on tamales that this article can be merged into. I added some pictures of nacatamales - I believe the steamer in this picture is the same one used on the tamal page - makes for a nice size comparison. Dr d12 23:53, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Where is the section on merging Nacatamal with Tamal? Anyways... THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!! Nacatamal has about 15 more ingredients (potato, tomato, rice, olives, rasins, peppers pork or chicken with bone, etc) than any tamal, which we also have in Nicaragua. It tastes completely different and is wrapped in a Plantain leaf not a corn husk, corn husks dont add flavor whereas plantain leaves doo. Nacatamales are usually about 4 times bigger than any tamal. A tamal is usually not a meal by itself as is a nacatamal since it has so many ingredients and flavors and its normally pretty big, although some places are starting to make them smaller (still twice the size of a tamal). -- 72.49.165.134 21:41, 9 May 2007

I created a section for you. Anyways, I don't think that the debate is over whether tamales and nacatamales are the same thing. The questions are (a) Are they based on the same thing? and (b) Is there enough information about nacatamales to warrant a separate article? To (a) I say the answer is Yes. I mean, nacatamales are often defined as "Nicaraguan tamales". To (b), I believe the answer is No. And, unless this is changed, I support that nacatamal should be merged into a subsection, and the current article should be changed to a redirect to that section.

-- trlkly 08:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

There's room for different articles about regional variations on the same thing, e.g. vietnamese sandwiches, and [[California-style pizza]. I think the test is whether the regional version is distinct (my answer "yes"), whether it would make an interesting / notable article (yes), and whether there's enough sourceable information (yes) and information already in the article (medium-yes) to justify it. All in all I would favor keeping the nactamal separate to see if it grows into a full fledged article. 69.228.193.131 05:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe my reasons aren't as great, but as a wiki USER, more than editor(Isnt that why yall do this stuff? for the users?), I say keep em seperate. Also, on the "nicaraguan tamale" comment, Skunks are called Polecats, but they have nothing to do with European polecats, poles OR cats.--98.18.57.173 (talk) 11:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Corn (maize) flour?

The first sentence states that a tamal is made from corn (maize) flour mixed with water and lard. This is not accurate, as corn flour is simply corn that is ground down to a fine powder (past corn meal), whereas masa is made through nixtamalization of the corn, which makes hominy (also called nixtamal) that is then ground into a powder. The second paragraph has masa, which redirects to that page, which explains it properly. Therefore, I recommend that "corn flour" be changed to masa mix, with the hyperlink. If someone is not sure what masa is, they can jump to the masa page and learn what it is. --Asacan 14:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Go ahead and amend the article accordingly. --Ezeu 15:10, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

It seems the amendment got deleted when the article is reworded. I attempted to add it back, although, since I couldn't fit both nixtamalization and hominy in the article, I used the one with which I am most familiar. Readers can find the link to nixtamalization in the hominy article.-- trlkly 08:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Can they be served cold? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.40.144 (talk) 13:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they can be served cold, though they do taste much better hot.--98.18.57.173 (talk) 11:32, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

"No obvious linguistic basis" for "tamale"

From the intro: "In English-speaking countries the tamal is usually called tamale in the singular, though there is no obvious linguistic basis for this name."

Aside from this being a very subjective statement, it is also very inaccurate; I think the reason for English speakers saying "tamale" is blatantly obvious: in English, adding an 's' to the end of a noun is the most recognizable way to pluralize it. It's easy to see how people saw "tamales" referring to more than one, and then decided that to get the singular form you just drop the 's'.

In any case, unless we can find some documented analysis of this topic, it seems irrelevant to discuss the origins of why English speakers say "tamale". Noting the use of the term would be fine enough without commenting on it, I think. Trau —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.107.88.186 (talk) 21:27, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

That sounds like a reasonable compromise. Just note that "Tamale" was created by applying English singularization rules to a Spanish plural, and that it differs from the Spanish singular of "tamal". Then prescriptivists like me can point to this objective fact and say, "And this is retarded" while descriptivists can point to the same objective fact and say, "there's no problem with this." The Wiki ideal. --123.218.238.83 (talk) 01:33, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I realize it's an old debate, but I'd like to reopen it. Sure, I've always thought it was "tamale", but I and others have believed incorrect things for quite some time. I did a quick check on a Spanish dictionary, and it seems that a single leaf-wrapped corn food thing is called a "tamal." Can anyone verify that this is not an import error? That native Spanish-speakers say, "I'm so hungry; I could really go for a tamale right now"? If not, this page should be renamed. If the word is indeed "tamal", and "tamale" is a nonsense-word formed by improper singularization, calling this page "tamale" is no more acceptable than calling Japanese swords "katanas" or saying, "I ate ten nigiri-zushis."

Another example would be "octopi" instead of "octopuses". The former is the result of an inaccurate Latin-style pluralization of a non-Latin ending. Just like "viri" is wrong, because "virus" is uncountable; the only alternative is to apply an English ending (-es). --123.218.238.83 (talk) 00:46, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Tamale is an English word. It is obviously of Spanish/Nahuatl origin, but like all loan words it should be treated as an English word and not a form of code switching, and its pluralisation should reflect this. Wormwoodpoppies (talk) 17:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

It's tamale in English. Link to Tamale entry at AskOED [1]. I can't wait until nopale instead of nopal hits the OED.

Guajillo sauce should be mentioned

The traditional guajillo sauce used for tamales should be mentioned. Badagnani (talk) 02:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Ethno-nomenclature.

I changed "Native American" in the intro paragraph to "American Indian". The former, in addition to having fallen out of favour in the last decade, is also most commonly associated with the Indigenous Peoples of the United States and could cause confusion in this article about a primarily Mesoamerican dish. American Indian is currently the most accepted term in anthropological circles for referring to the indigenous peoples of the sub-arctic (i.e. non-Inuit/"Eskimo") Americas. Wormwoodpoppies (talk) 17:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

No good, because they're also part of the traditions of non-U.S. indigenous peoples living to the south of the U.S. Badagnani (talk) 17:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm unsure how to input the tag, but this article has no references or citations.--86.26.203.247 (talk) 10:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be no mention of the differences in corn that is used between Latin American countries; in Mexico, Guatemala,Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica white corn is used. While in the Caribbean spanish speaking countries, Panama, Colombia, and I believe Venezuela yellow corn is used along with the traditional Plantain banana wrapping. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.109.97.193 (talk) 21:58, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

And what of the 'All American' Tamale of North America?

Wherever there are Latin American immigrants, there are Tamales... which means they're everywhere in the U.S.

There are Tamale Festivals in several places that feature Tamales of all kinds. For instance, Indio, CA recently held one. A quick web search turns them up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.29.117.62 (talk) 05:46, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

we need to include a North American section mentioning the famous delta style tamales, known as "Hot Tamales" they are not steamed but cooked in the broth the meat was cooked in (traditionally) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chef Fincher (talk • contribs) 20:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. A section on the Delta tamale (perhaps even a master article) would be good. The Delta tamale differs in a few ways from both Mexican and Latin American tamales -- mainly in the fact that the juices from the cooked meat are used to boil the tamales, and they can be spiced in the meat, cornmeal mix, AND the cooking water. I'll work on this later. Joelmoses 2000 (talk) 00:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

wrapper edible?

For those of us who have never had one, do you eat the corn husk wrapper (or plaintain leaf or whatever wrapper is used)? 98.16.33.159 (talk) 19:19, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

No. You take the husk/leaf off before you eat it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.162.187 (talk) 18:08, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

clean up

Checked historical sources and changed the order of the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.220.104.168 (talk) 11:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)