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Etymology

Can anyone find any reputable sources for the etymology of the word slivovitz? With the -itz suffix, it seems like it came to English through German, but the sliv root is definitely Slavic. Because of geographic proximity and the lack of any Js, I would guess that the word came to German from either Poland or the Czech Republic (I'm sure it was Austria-Hungary at the time). But all this is original research and can't be put in the article.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 20:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think, that the whole word is entirely slavic. "Sliva" is slavic for plum and "-ovica" is just a common slavic suffix - "-ovitz" is just a germanization of it. So the etymology part is definitelty wrong.--85.216.232.215 (talk) 12:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Designation of Origin

Can anyone find any official record (on europa.eu) of the claims in the article's Designation of Origin section? For example, in Bryndza, there is this citation:

  • European Commission (2007-06-11). "Commission Regulation (EC) No 642/2007 of 11 June 2007 registering a name in the Register of protected designations of origin and protected geographical indications Bryndza Podhalańska (PDO)". Retrieved 2008-06-10.

I tried searching through europa.eu and I couldn't find anything to support the claims about Srpska šljivovica. I did find some pages that seemed to say that any of the countries from the former Yugoslavia could export bottles of sljivovica into the EU. I didn't find any pages on europa.eu that supported the idea that Serbia had any special brand or that the EU had given any of the former Yugoslavian countries an advantage over the others.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 11:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Currently, I think the whole section should be stripped down to just say that Slobodan Milosavljević claims that Serbia has recieved an EU certificate about some exclusive rights to market a Serbian brand of slivovitz and cite the English B92 article.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 11:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Maybe a better idea would be to just delete the whole section. it seems from this article that the Serbian Agriculture Ministry has no idea how geographical indications like Protected designation of origin work in the EU:

The EU has decided that no country can claim exclusive rights to slivovitz, plum brandy or any of the names for the same thing in any language. Every country has to use the geographic origin as an adjective in the name of the product. Somehow the Serbian Agriculture Ministry has interpreted this as meaning that they have some kind of trademark for "Serbian Slivovitz". It's complete nonsense.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 22:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Deleted the following:

==Designation of origin==

Following the claims of several nations to the [[protected designation of origin]], in October 2007 the [[European Union]] went for a compromise solution, leaving "slivovitz" as a [[generic name]], and granting individual nations the right to protect the origin with their own adjective.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2007&mm=10&dd=01&nav_id=265855|title=Problemi oko izvoza šljivovice|date=2007-10-01|publisher=[[B92]]|accessdate=2007-10-11|language=Serbian}}</ref> Thus, "Serbian Slivovitz" (''Srpska šljivovica'') will become Serbia's first certified national brand.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.b92.net/eng/news/economy-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=09&dd=28&nav_category=98&nav_id=44132|title=Slivovitz becomes Serbia’s first brand| publisher=[[B92]]|date=2007-09-28|accessdate=2007-10-11|0}}</ref>

for the reasons listed above.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 22:31, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merger

I've never seen this spelled any way but "sliwowitz". It's pronounced slivovitz, but I've never seen it spelled with "v"s rather than "w"s. ~~

It depends which orthography you're used to. The letter 'v' is pronounced like the English 'v' in Czech and Slovak for example but in Polish and German the English 'v' is written 'w'. So it depends where you buy your bottles!

I am pro merge. Specifically, I would make the 'w' spelling a redirect to the 'v' version. --Mdwyer 21:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


How to drink?

What about Hungarian Zwack kosher 3 years old Slivovitz? How would you drink it? I guess well chilled...

In the Czech Republic it was served to me in ice cold shots folowed by a water chaser. Babba Lou 22:09, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Serbian

Is there any reason why Serbian language is prefered? Slivovitz is common in many other countries. What is the origin of the word root "sliv"? If it is just Slavic root (it is used in other Slavic languages), there is no reason to prefer one language. Miraceti 16:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

sorry but Slivovica is a Serbian drink, traditional drink of Serbs. Serbs speak a Slavic language, and answer me, why is Whisky not a Canadian drink? just because Canadians say Whisky, the origin of Whisky is Irish.
if slivovitz is so clearly of serbian origin as you think, then why did the eu only grant pdo status for srpska šljivovica? if the origin was clear, the eu would have given pdo status for šljivovica without requiring the country name to be an adjective.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 20:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Distillation

Are you kidding? Nobody would add starch to the plums! And adding suggar may even be illegal in some countries! At least no serious distiller would add that stuff!

Not all distillers add starches or sugars, and some don't even add yeast. Also, any objection to adding an explaination that the pits are not intentionally crushed, but are crushed as a byproduct of crushing the plums when the rollers are set close to handle the smallest plums.

Finally, a question. There are several distillers, Castle Spirits and Imperia, who use either pitted prunes, or pitted fresh plums. It's still slivovitz, but without the characteristic bite. Is this a separate style? (or does it even matter?) Bill R

I was hoping to find some external links. I am most familiar with the Czech version, especially that produced by Rudolph Jelinek. (http://www.rjelinek.com/)

Babba Lou 22:09, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Countries

Why are the countries in which this drink is produced and most commonly consumed not listed at all in this article? Badagnani (talk) 21:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see that all that information did exist in the article, but was removed several months ago. That was very wrong. Please restore it. Badagnani (talk) 21:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you can find some reliable source that shows how much is consumed in specific countries, fine. But it's possible to buy and drink Slivovitz in America. If you are talking about the list of all the words for Slivovitz in other languages, we definitely don't need that in the article. That's what the languages sidebar is for.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 21:25, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I specified very clearly that the nations in which the beverage is produced should be added. Please do it. Blanking that text was a form of encyclopedic malpractice. Sources are abundant. Badagnani (talk) 21:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but every Balkan country claims to be the source of slivovitz. The EU settled the matter by not allowing Slivovitz to be used by itself as a protected name. Each country must use their country name as an adjective if they want any protection. Serbian Slivovitz, Croatian Slivovitz, etc. If there was any solid proof that Slivovitz originated in any of those countries, the EU would have granted them PDO.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 22:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That isn't the question. The entire section describing this beverage's habitat and primary areas of production, and cultures with which it is most closely associated, was completely removed a few months ago. That wasn't the best thing for our readers, as sources are abundant. Badagnani (talk) 22:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So you add a source that says Slivovitz originated in Croatia. How is that helpful? Here are two that say it came from Moravia:

  — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 22:33, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Does it state that it originated under that name in Moravia? If so, please add "Croatia or Moravia," with sources, as we'd do for any similarly contested issue at any WP article. Badagnani (talk) 23:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well well well. After the fall and split of Czechoslovakia it might be hard to tell in which part of that (now known as a) region it originated from and especially to find up-to-date (online or other reliable) sources for that. So no need to "fight" over this but rather to figure it out and then add it to the article with citation(s). Till then it'll be still a liquor from former Czechoslovakia for me (since I grew up overseas).
And by the way: Production and origin are two different issues. --Floridianed (talk) 02:11, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct about the split between the Czech Republic and Slovakia; let's look for more info about that. I recommend adding separate sections on origin (including whatever the best sources say about this), as well as production (including prominent brands and producing nations), all with sources. Eventually, we'll have the best documented article on this subject. Badagnani (talk) 02:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To separate origin and production would be a good and more neutral approach. --Floridianed (talk) 02:30, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I started the sections; just add more stuff to them as needed. Badagnani (talk) 02:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do whatever you think is right to do. I was here coincidentally and just thought, my little neutral input here could help to prevent a potential edit war and more important, bring the discussion back to the merits. --Floridianed (talk) 03:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Getting complete information on nations where it's commercially produced can be difficult because some of the products are probably produced only for in-country consumption, and not marketed in English-language (or non-Cyrillic) publications. Badagnani (talk) 03:10, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there you have a challenge ;) --Floridianed (talk) 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nations of production

As listed here, nations of production include (apparently alphabetized rather than listed by importance): "Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, and to a lesser extent in Austria, Germany, Italy and elsewhere." Hungary isn't listed. Badagnani (talk) 01:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

that seems to merely be an unattributed republishing of an old wikipedia entry. maybe Slivovitz from April 22, 2005. I don't think it should really be considered a reliable source since the old wikipedia article didn't have any sources.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 05:11, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, like a meme anyone could've written. Badagnani (talk) 05:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Need proof of commercial production in Austria, Bosnia, and Romania. Badagnani (talk) 05:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Myth of origin

Is this Polish myth of origin real? Badagnani (talk) 02:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That site doesn't look reliable to me at all. But that's just my personal opinion. --Floridianed (talk) 03:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know where I heard of this legend before, but maybe it was at this same site. I can't find any other place that mentions the legend, thought it is compelling. Badagnani (talk) 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A few other names

This website mentions several beverages with names in German, French, English, and other languages, that are essentially slivovitzes but which don't bear the slivovitz name. I've been weighing this but think they should be mentioned in the article. Badagnani (talk) 05:17, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's the same site you mentioned before. Forget it as a reliable source and by the way: The "German" mentioned in there is from Switzerland. --Floridianed (talk) 05:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Pflümli is Swiss German, right. I'm familiar with the Clear Creek product (eau de vies made out of two different types of plums) and it seems the slivovitz experts consider it to be a slivovitz, albeit under a different name. Badagnani (talk) 05:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tell that someone in Switzerland and you might get hurt ;) --Floridianed (talk) 06:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What? Do they call their language something else? I've heard it called "Swiss German." Badagnani (talk) 06:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No. What I meant is if you tell them that their "Pflümli" is some kind of or similar to Slivovitz you'll be in trouble over there ;) --Floridianed (talk) 06:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see. It makes sense. Have you visited Bern/Basel/Zürich? Badagnani (talk) 06:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I was there occasionally (especially Zürich) even so it was a long time ago. --Floridianed (talk) 06:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you planning on making an exhaustive list? Or only a list of notable distillers?   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 14:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's just a start, as a sort of "notebook" showing once and for all the actual places that produce it commercially. I think if it's on the Internet, it must be somewhat notable, as there are a lot of home-brewers and "unofficial" producers who don't send any out of their own home regions or nations. Badagnani (talk) 17:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

i think we have two different ideas of notable. i was meaning this one: Wikipedia:Notability. it requires signifigant coverage by independent and reliable sources. so that's more than just a company's own website. A list of all commercial slivovitz distillers in the world could be a rather large list. also there might be a question of whether every type of distillation from plums counts as slivovitz or only if the distiller markets it as slivovitz. i think if you end up listing every company that produces some sort of distillation from plums that it will turn into a very long list that probably should be in its own article so it doesn't overwhelm the rest of the slivovitz article.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 18:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Those are good questions. It's just a start, with more information for our readers being better than less. It's certainly better than last week, when the article didn't even mention in which regions the drink was produced or most closely associated with. Badagnani (talk) 18:26, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you planning to add sources to the list? A whole list of red links isn't so great.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 11:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think all the names come from the two lists in the External links. I'm not sure I have enough info to make a separate article for each producer. They can be unwikilinked if necessary, if it looks bad. Badagnani (talk) 12:38, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For example, Zwack calls their plum distilled drink Pálinkák[1]. Does that mean it's not Slivovitz? and "Farmers from Łącko region" aren't exactly commercial producers. There is already an article for Stefan Nemanja, but it's for the saint, not the distiller. Flores is about the island in south-east Asia, not the Serbian distiller. And what rules are you using for inclusion? There are several American slivovitz producers: Black Star Farms, Clear Creek Distillery, Peach Street Distillers, Stringer's Orchard…   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 13:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They're good questions. I would lean toward including all of them as slivovitz producers even if some other local name is used (primarily because all the plum brandies seem to be embraced as such by the Slivovitz Festival people), but I'm not sure how other editors feel about this. Badagnani (talk) 17:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

Someone just added that slivovitz may have first been distilled in Serbia or Moravia, but the four sources presented have no visible text. What are the actual quotes? Badagnani (talk) 01:11, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I added the quotes and page numbers for the citations for Moravia. Only the citations for Serbia are missing them now.   — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 05:01, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conflicting origin claims

Are there any authoritative, historical sources that could settle the origin of Slivovitz? Or should all the reasonably reliable sources be left in the article as possibilities? This is how the sentence currently stands in the article:

Although the exact origins of slivovitz are unknown, it is believed to have been first produced in the Balkans[1] (possibly in Croatia,[2][3] Serbia,[4][5] Moravia,[6][7] Czechoslovakia,[8] Hungary[8] or Bulgaria[8]).

  — Chris Capoccia T⁄C 05:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most likely all of the Balkan people have a long history of distilling their fruits and I doubt any modern nation can claim they did it first, Hungarian palinka, Romanian rakia, Serbian/Croatian/Polish/etc. Slivovitz are all really the same drink. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.240.132.84 (talk) 02:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blatantly non-NPOV sentences

"The best Slivovice is home made" and "To produce the best brew nothing else is added to the barrel." 71.178.188.220 (talk) 10:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Original Research/POV material

The following content was removed as Original Research/POV and relocated here (rather than be deleted outright):

Fermentation and distillation in Moravia, Czech Republic

Collecting the plums is a family event, when the plums are ripe, the plum tree branches are shaken vigorously causing the plums to drop to the ground. These are collected taken home and put in various barrels, these days usually plastic.

The plums are not crushed, just put as they were picked into the barrels, sometimes squeezed gently, but crushing of kernels is avoided. To produce the best brew nothing else is added to the barrel. Fermentation is natural and continues for a couple of months producing a heady rich mash of fermented fruit.

The next stage is to take the mash to the local distillery, at some time from November on. Some people distill at home, but this is illegal in some countries and can be dangerous as the result might contain methyl alcohol. Most villages in Moravia have their own distillery. In some countries, tax has to be paid on the amount of alcohol produced, but the tax rate is sometimes significantly lower than for commercial products.

The mash is usually distilled twice, firstly in a large vat, and then in a much smaller vat. Distilleries using single distillation with vigorous deflegmation also exist but are generally avoided, as their product is believed to be of worse quality. Traditionally the heating was done using wood, but nowadays natural gas is prevalent. The result is a colorless liquid which is usually watered down to give an alcohol content of around 51%. During the distilling season, distilleries run a non-stop operation almost 24 hours a day, villagers lining up with trailers full of barrels.

A good mash will give around 10% of its volume in finished spirit — perfectly pure, healthy spirit, with a distinct prune aroma, which has medical uses in the home as well as being an extremely potent drink. [End] Wikiuser100 (talk) 22:36, 3 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Lennox, Doug (2003). "Food & Drink". Now you know. Toronto: Dundurn. pp. M1 102. ISBN 9781550026481. OCLC 52455722.
  2. ^ The World and its peoples: Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Poland. New York: Greystone Press. 1965. pp. 33. OCLC 399998. LCCN 65-0 – 0. Slivovitz is a brandy made from plums which originated in Croatia.
  3. ^ Porter, Darwin (2005). Frommer's Vienna & the Danube Valley. Hoboken, New Jersey: John Wiley & Sons. p. 230. ISBN 0764597175. OCLC 60397040 60649498. Two of the most famous and favored liqueurs among Austrians are slivovitz (a plum brandy that originated in Croatia) and barack (made from apricots). {{cite book}}: Check |oclc= value (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  4. ^ Home & Away in Kentucky Ethnic Serb food and beverages: "Slivovitz (Serbian plum brandy)"[unreliable source?]
  5. ^ Branigan, James Joseph (1975). "Serbia". The Mediterranean Lands. Michigan: Macdonald & Evans. pp. [2]. ISBN 0-7121-1367-3. OCLC 60004517. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)[page needed]
  6. ^ Wilson, Neil (2005). Prague. Lonely Planet. pp. M1 16. ISBN 1-74059-758-3. OCLC 58434605. The fiery and potent slivovice (plum brandy) is said to have originated in Moravia…
  7. ^ Warren, Matt; Neal Bedford; Jane Rawson (2004). Czech & Slovak republics. Lonely Planet. pp. M1 65. ISBN 1-74104-046-9. OCLC 56466554. Slivovice is a fiery, potent plum brandy said to have originated in Moravia…{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  8. ^ a b c Arthey, David (1996). Fruit processing. London: Blackie Academic & Professional. pp. M1 129. ISBN 0-7514-0039-4. OCLC 34116886. Type: Slivovitz; Synonym: Plumb brandy; Country of origin: Former Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
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