Talk:Richard Wagner

Pronunciation

The so-called "English" pronunciation given is actually the American one. In England the r is silent unless followed by a vowel in the next word. Peter jackson (talk) 15:41, 10 June 2009 (UTC) Purely coincidentally, I have my concern about the pronunciation as well. It isn't cited. How can we be sure that it isn't just a hoax? Concerning the comment above, as far as I know there is no rule saying that only the BBC English pronunciation is accepted. Besides, many rhonic accents are not American - a Scot might pronounce the r sound without getting into any trouble. Kayau David Copperfield MOBY DICK the great gatsby 05:33, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

/wægnɚ/ is a real pronunciation; I don't have a source. As far as I am aware, it exists solely in the United States. Why, why, why there is such a pronunciation I don't know. I've never liked the sound of it, and to me, it is ignorance of the word's origins. I'm not sure the above pronunciation should be on this page, though, because, again, as far as I am aware, it is used never when referencing Richard Wagner, but others with the surname. I might remove it soon, if there's no objection. 79.71.113.135 (talk) 00:41, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

There is no reason to include a pronunciation that never applies to the individual it is trying to describe. No one, not even Americans, pronounce this composers name as /wægnɚ/, though they might pronounce a different individual this way. The pronunciation guide should be just that, a guide to correct pronunciation, not a list of the various ways people mispronounce a name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.85.4.99 (talk) 21:15, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

"Jews"

In the controversies section: out side of Wagner's usual anti-Semitic diatribes, the word "Jew" appears to continue to stay with it is antisemitic overtones (i know this is not how it is meant by the author but it is how it reads to me) . While we need to make clear Wagner's "views"; outside of his quotes, could we use language less emotionally and historically "loaded"? Replace "Jews" with "Jewish people" for example. Or something that seems less value laden? Lotus Blossom (ak the 7th) (talk) 20:10, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

As a Jew, and one who is proud to be one and to be called one, may I state it is utter nonsense to claim that the word in itself is prejudicial or racist in any way. It is simply descriptive, exactly analogous to 'Englishman', 'Frenchman' etc., etc. Of course some foolish people may use these and similar words in an offensive way but that is no reflection on the words themselves. Please let us not use Wikipedia to rewrite the English language in any partisan manner.--Smerus (talk) 06:35, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

PS - see also the WP articel Jew - should we delete this?--Smerus (talk) 06:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Lotus Blossom (ak the 7th) was a sockpuppet. --Kleinzach 09:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Wagner's Influence

The article says that Rossini was a composer that resisted Wagner's influence. I think this isn't really a very meaningful comment. Firstly, Rossini was a composer of an older generation than Wagner, and it is relatively uncommon for composers who are much older to be influenced by those who are much younger. But secondly, and perhaps more importantly, Rossini had largely stopped composing by the time that Wagner's seminal works were being written. So which WORKS by Rossini resisted Wagner's influence? It is true that Rossini made various witty comments attacking Wagner, but to say that he resisted Wagner's influence in a musical sense doesn't seem to have much meaning... Museslave (talk) 07:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Rossini lived until 1868. I've changed the word 'influence' to 'attraction' but maybe someone should find the quotation and nail it down? --Kleinzach 09:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Downgrading

Tpbradbury has just downgraded this article to start class. Would he like to explain his reasons? --Kleinzach 11:51, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I tried to move it to c-class but the Wagner project doesn't support that. I now see that project hasn't changed-up the b-class criteria like most projects. sorry, feel free to change back up to B for that project, Tom B (talk) 12:11, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, but why did you want to change the assessment anyway? And why did you change the ratings on all the other banners? Did you read the assessment page before you did this? I see you haven't written anything there. --Kleinzach 14:03, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

antisemiti*, anti-semiti*, anti-Semiti*

We have all three floating around in this article and really need to standardise. Is this covered by WP:ENGVAR and its first come, first served principle,or do we standise to match the spelling of articles and categories?--Peter cohen (talk) 22:57, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I think any of the three are acceptable, but I'd suggest standardising around antisemitism since that's how we do the article on the topic itself, as well as the category. Antandrus (talk) 23:00, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and did it ... if anyone objects let us know. I don't have a strong feeling either way, I just think it's good to be consistent. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 00:25, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Well that was one of the options I suggested. So I'm not going to complain too loudly.--Peter cohen (talk) 08:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

An Idea For A Book And Film About Richard Wagner

An article about Richard Wagner, a great composer and subject of my next book.

I as both an opera fanatic and author of the book “New York’s Opera Society” naturally am an ardent admirer of Wagner. It being this man who in the 19th century revolutionized not only opera but music through his works which included masterpieces the likes of “Der Ring des Nibelungen (The Ring of the Nibelung), “Tristan And Isolde”, “The Flying Dutchman”, “The Meister Singer From Nuremburg”, “Lohengrin”, “Tannhäuser” and “Parsifal”. Wagner’s influence however to a large extent took opera beyond what it had been up till his time; as he expanded it from merely putting poetry in to music to creating what could be hailed as “musical dramas”. Regarding Wagner, the composer he for the most part like his contemporary; Verdi (also born in 1813) limited himself to writing operas however Wagner unlike Verdi wrote his own librettos. This that which set him apart from many others; as Wagner was able to truly create an entire opera on his own in what he; himself dubbed “total art”.

Wagner apart from music led a very interesting life; which is the real reason for my decision to write a book about him. Wagner being one who perhaps was not a man who many would ever refer to as a saint. This given his habit of running in to debt and almost always escaping his creditors, whom he tended not to pay. It was in fact often that the sponsors of his operas would bail him out; thus preventing his going to debtors prison. Wagner’s political views were also something which managed to get him in trouble, specifically after supporting a failed revolution in Dresden. This being what led to his fleeing to Zurich; in order to prevent himself from going to prison as was the case with Röckel and Bakunin, who were amongst the organizers of the revolution .

Regarding Wagner’s romantic life; it for the most part was occupied by two women, both of whom he wed. The first of which being the one he would divorce after a union which would not produce much in the way of happiness. Wagner however would go on to remarry; a woman by the name of Cosima, who apart from being the daughter of Hungarian pianist Liszt would be the one to provide him with joy as well as three children. All of which born before the couple officially married, this given the fact that both were already in relationships that included marital ties at the time. Cosima’s being with Hans von Bülow, (piano virtuoso, teacher and orchestral conductor) while Wagner’s with German actress Minna Planer. Regarding their progeny it was the names of Isolde, Eva and Siegfried which were given to them.

It can be said that Wagner in many ways was “new age” as his music for its time was considered very loud (a factor mentioned in Oscar Wilde’s book “Picture Of Dorian Grey”), perhaps even more so than heavy metal was in the late 70’s yet it was also in his personal habits that he was such. This the case since he was a vegetarian, who historians believe to have influenced Hitler in following his example of the same.

Many in Wagner’s time; as they still do today regarded the maestro as a megalomaniac; them referring to his need to make everything bombastic, such as his operas, most of which extended close to if not over four hours in length along with the opera house he had constructed in the Bavarian town of Bayreuth. This being a place which in present day dedicates itself to the exclusive performance of Wagner’s operas.

As for Wagner’s influence on me, I can in earnest state that it is his music and its use of heavy brass and percussion that provides me with a lot of the passion; many have claimed to find in my work. This being more so the case in the winter months in which I require more energy; simply so I might make it through the day as well as my written works.

Wagner like most greats had his rival; one who could also create grand works to motivate him to deliver his best. In Wagner’s case this individual was undoubtedly Verdi; who even admitted after Wagner’s death how he had been influenced by the German maestro’s music.

As for the story in my book it will concentrate on the life and times of the great German composer; Richard Wagner yet unlike most biographies this particular one will be told in present time by “Getty Albert”. She being one of the main characters of my first ever published book “New York’s Opera Society”. The story will commence almost a full decade after the events of my first book, when Gosia, now Bill’s wife and the mother of his only two children asks her mother-in-law, Getty who is staying over to help out with her grandchildren what it is about Wagner’s life that people find so fascinating. All of which prompting Getty, never shy about discussing her love for not only Wagner but opera to narrate the story of Wagner’s life; in a tale that keeps these two lovely ladies up all of the night while they handle the duties of taking care of Gosia’s youngest child, who happens to have come down with a case of influenza. It is in Getty’s tale and the passion she puts in to it that we are able to get an idea of how it was that Wagner lived and loved and above all composed music which despite the years has not been forgotten like that of so many others.